Console vs PC dps tests

rothtwinsdad · June 2019

I play on PS4 and consider myself above average. I see dps tests for mag sorcs hitting high 90's. I can only get to 55k and while my rotation may not be perfect I don't see 90k being viable at all. Is anyone on console hitting these numbers?

mobicera · June 2019

90k is on the new raid dummy not a 3 Milly or 6 Milly dummy.
Yes people on console are hitting 90 on new raid dummy.
If you are hitting 55 self buffed on a 3 or 6 million dummy those are rather decent numbers for console

Rerum · June 2019

What is your gear? But even if not talking about gear - your rotation really far from good if you pull 55k on 21mil atro. I saw 90k parses on magplar at consoles, so i'm sure people hit this numbers on sorcs.

Donny_Vito · June 2019

Yes, 55k on console is very good. Especially given the fact that you have to keep track of all your ground AOEs and buffs by yourself without any add-ons. You are going to be hitting 75k+ on the dummy.

MJallday · June 2019

People are hitting 90+ on the Xbox in my guild (on the new dummy obvs)

My rotation isn’t nearly nailed enough and with this lag it won’t be anytime soon - but yeah it’s possible - I just wish we had combat metrics to see where stuff is
Going wrong

redlink1979 · June 2019

Don't forget 90k are on the new dummies, which have buffs n debuffs.

redlink1979 · June 2019

MJallday wrote: »

I just wish we had combat metrics to see where stuff is going wrong

I feel your pain, console brother.

siddique · June 2019

Yeah that's prolly the trial dummy. 55k on a 3mil is rather good.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2019

55k on 6 mil will be mid to high 80s on a raid dummy. That’s about where I was on a 6 mil and I can hit 85k pretty consistently with just the twilight pet. I haven’t even bothered trying with the tormentor or double pet, but people are definitely hitting in the 90s on the raid dummy with them.

Waffennacht · June 2019

I also consider you above average OP

ArchMikem · June 2019

mobicera wrote: »

90k is on the new raid dummy not a 3 Milly or 6 Milly dummy.
Yes people on console are hitting 90 on new raid dummy.
If you are hitting 55 self buffed on a 3 or 6 million dummy those are rather decent numbers for console

There's a word to describe this thinking here but I can't remember it.

55k is NOT just decent, it's fan effing tastic, and a parse very few can actually achieve. 25k is decent, 30k-35k is great, and 40k+ is "nothing is hard anymore".

mairwen85 · June 2019

ArchMikem wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

90k is on the new raid dummy not a 3 Milly or 6 Milly dummy.
Yes people on console are hitting 90 on new raid dummy.
If you are hitting 55 self buffed on a 3 or 6 million dummy those are rather decent numbers for console

There's a word to describe this thinking here but I can't remember it.

55k is NOT just decent, it's fan effing tastic, and a parse very few can actually achieve. 25k is decent, 30k-35k is great, and 40k+ is "nothing is hard anymore".

Impostor syndrome is where someone very good at something believes they are not. It's kind of an inverse of Dunning-Kruger effect

MJallday · June 2019

You can complete everything in this game including vas +2 and vcr+3 with 30k

Obviously the more the better but it’s certainly all doable with lower numbers . It’s only certain guilds that get all elitist about it

idk · June 2019

mobicera wrote: »

90k is on the new raid dummy not a 3 Milly or 6 Milly dummy.
Yes people on console are hitting 90 on new raid dummy.
If you are hitting 55 self buffed on a 3 or 6 million dummy those are rather decent numbers for console

Yea, the new dummy is pretty sweat as it offered most if not all of the raid buffs commonly expected. Testing on any of the other dummies will be significantly lower as this person points out, but having nothing to do with how much HP the dummy has.

But yea, if you are hitting 55k on a normal test dummy solo then that is pretty good.

carlos424 · June 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

Don't forget 90k are on the new dummies, which have buffs n debuffs.

Plus, don’t forget your parse food. Lol. I think its funny how all of a sudden its cool to cheese the 21m dummy with ghastly eyeballs. I guess if Liko does it, it’s all good. (At least for mag)

Runefang · June 2019

carlos424 wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

Don't forget 90k are on the new dummies, which have buffs n debuffs.

Plus, don’t forget your parse food. Lol. I think its funny how all of a sudden its cool to cheese the 21m dummy with ghastly eyeballs. I guess if Liko does it, it’s all good. (At least for mag)

Well its just the side-effect of it being a 21m dummy.. its unrealistic to self-sustain with normal food without doing heavy attacks. And since you never have to do heavy attacks in real content its not a test that reflects reality.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2019

Runefang wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

Don't forget 90k are on the new dummies, which have buffs n debuffs.

Plus, don’t forget your parse food. Lol. I think its funny how all of a sudden its cool to cheese the 21m dummy with ghastly eyeballs. I guess if Liko does it, it’s all good. (At least for mag)

Well its just the side-effect of it being a 21m dummy.. its unrealistic to self-sustain with normal food without doing heavy attacks. And since you never have to do heavy attacks in real content its not a test that reflects reality.

I was recently roasted for suggesting that 21m for the raid dummy was frankly overkill on the health front. Even the best take 4 minutes to kill it, which is not necessary for showing your build can sustain.

Your sustain in a good raid should actually be better than what you get on the raid dummy. I think the reason Liko uses parse food frankly is because he knows he can sustain in a raid with just about any food, but this is just one more thing to standardize, and it removes sustain from the equation. You dont need parse food to kill a raid dummy solo (especially if you do it in 4 minutes). My Magplar basically finishes a raid dummy at full magic if I use parse food. I can sustain blue food in a raid just fine.

El_Borracho · July 2019

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I agree. Sustain on a dummy is only an indicator that you might be doing something wrong. I can be affected by the trial. I always seem to have sustain issues in Cloudrest (stam player) that I don't have anywhere else. You will also get more buffs from the 11 players in the trial.

To some degree, I think dummy parses have become irrelevant. Players eat raid food, have others off screen buffing them, or put on monster gear they would never wear in a raid, all to inflate numbers. What started as a way to help players get feedback on their rotations has become a game unto itself. To the point some of my trials guilds that formerly required parses now would rather see what you do in other vet trials before bringing you into a vet AS, HOF, CR, or MOL.

Give me a person with "average" or "above average" raid DPS who knows the mechanics over someone who can smash 90K on a dummy any day.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2019

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I agree. Sustain on a dummy is only an indicator that you might be doing something wrong. I can be affected by the trial. I always seem to have sustain issues in Cloudrest (stam player) that I don't have anywhere else. You will also get more buffs from the 11 players in the trial.

To some degree, I think dummy parses have become irrelevant. Players eat raid food, have others off screen buffing them, or put on monster gear they would never wear in a raid, all to inflate numbers. What started as a way to help players get feedback on their rotations has become a game unto itself. To the point some of my trials guilds that formerly required parses now would rather see what you do in other vet trials before bringing you into a vet AS, HOF, CR, or MOL.

Give me a person with "average" or "above average" raid DPS who knows the mechanics over someone who can smash 90K on a dummy any day.

Yeah, I dont think you are wrong in anything you said. I do however still think there is some value in dummy parses, especially now that we have a raid dummy that standardizes things to a large degree.

Of course raid awareness is more important than the best of the best parse. That said, this notion of a person that cant kill a raid dummy effectively but also follows every mechanic to the letter is a myth as far as I can tell. Most people pulling in the 80s on a raid dummy have the skill set to follow mechanics. Whether they choose to is perhaps a different question. In other words, VMOL HM can be done with average DPS of like 20k, but if you really arent capable of breaking 20k in the current meta, no way in heck you are able to follow mechanics to the letter either.

And whether you pull 80k in your actual trial setup or pull 90k in a min/maxed dummy warrior setup really doesnt matter much. That said, if you are only pulling 50-60k on a raid dummy these days, it can be very useful in pinning down rotation issues. And to be clear, if you arent breaking 80k on a raid dummy, you have rotation issues for sure.

There is also no substitute for committing your rotation to muscle memory, and dummies are the best way to do that. Much like a musician that spends hours practicing scales. No, it's not the whole symphony (the trial in this metaphor), but it certainly helps.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2019

MJallday wrote: »

You can complete everything in this game including vas +2 and vcr+3 with 30k

Obviously the more the better but it’s certainly all doable with lower numbers . It’s only certain guilds that get all elitist about it

30k trial DPS for that specific fight or are we talking about raid dummy DPS. Yeah, your average VCR+3 clear has average DPS per player of less than 30k. I think my first VCR+3 clear, my fight DPS was like 27.5k, but of course we nearly wiped, I did backroom, $h!t hit the fan, etc. On a clean clear, I certainly pull a lot more.

That said, take a group of players who legitimately top out on a raid dummy (or even a 3 mil) at 30k despite their best efforts, and they are going to be progressing VCR+3 for a VERY LONG time. I wont say impossible, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

El_Borracho · July 2019

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I don't disagree with anything in your response, especially this:

There is also no substitute for committing your rotation to muscle memory, and dummies are the best way to do that. Much like a musician that spends hours practicing scales. No, it's not the whole symphony (the trial in this metaphor), but it certainly helps.

I feel that if you are going to dummy parse, do it in unfavorable conditions. What I mean by that, is don't have a person off screen buffing you or cheese your build. Parse food isn't that big a deal to me, but the point is to work on your build and rotation so you can do it in a trial. Not to impress your guildies with your score. So you might as well practice wearing and using the stuff you are going to use when it matters.

Runefang · July 2019

There is no such thing as a "trial set up" now days, the gear and skills you run is dependent on each fight (or should be if you want to optimise your dps) and your role in that fight. So saying that people cheese the dummy by running gear they normally wouldn't doesn't mean anything, there is no such thing as a 'normal' gear set up.

The 21m dummy gives you the ability to prove that you can pull good dps, using a level playing field which is available to everybody else. And while its an unrealistically long fight I quite like that it since you have to keep up a good rotation for a long time, which is both good for practice and good to prove your ability to be consistent. That's its purpose and it does a good job of that. If you choose to pull lower dps by not running "parse food" or running sets you run more often in a trial that's fine, its helpful for real practice anyway, but it just makes it harder to compare your dps with that of somebody running sets that are ideal for fighting static bosses.

Any good trial guild assesses you on more than your dummy dps, using easier trials as a gateway to prove you can handle the harder content and actually assessing your dps in trials as well. ESOlogs are playing a huge role in that too.

RodneyRegis · July 2019

Oh cool, there are raid dummies? What are they called? How high is their health?

sudaki_eso · July 2019

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Oh cool, there are raid dummies? What are they called? How high is their health?

https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/target-iron-atronach-trial/ - 21m health

Imo, everything is cheese unless you run the same skills, gear and food you would run in a trial.
PC'ler might switch their gear between fights since they have awesome plugins that allow a one click solution. On the consoles i ve never seen a dd switch gear mid trial, tanks yeah but dd's - not yet.

Alcast · July 2019

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Oh cool, there are raid dummies? What are they called? How high is their health?

21 Million, Target Iron Atronach, Trial

I guess ZOS will release a lower HP version at some point because 21 Million is a bit high in my opinion.It has all raid buffs 100% of the time on the target dummy including throwing you spear shards to recover resources.

MJallday · July 2019

Alcast wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Oh cool, there are raid dummies? What are they called? How high is their health?

21 Million, Target Iron Atronach, Trial

I guess ZOS will release a lower HP version at some point because 21 Million is a bit high in my opinion.It has all raid buffs 100% of the time on the target dummy including throwing you spear shards to recover resources.

Just stack the trial dummy next to the 3 m dummy - you’ll get the buffs ;-)

WuffyCerulei · July 2019

Those high af parses are all on the raid dummy, and those raid dummies are just too unrealistic imo. 55k on a regular dummy is absolutely amazing.

LiquidPony · July 2019

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I don't disagree with anything in your response, especially this:

There is also no substitute for committing your rotation to muscle memory, and dummies are the best way to do that. Much like a musician that spends hours practicing scales. No, it's not the whole symphony (the trial in this metaphor), but it certainly helps.

I feel that if you are going to dummy parse, do it in unfavorable conditions. What I mean by that, is don't have a person off screen buffing you or cheese your build. Parse food isn't that big a deal to me, but the point is to work on your build and rotation so you can do it in a trial. Not to impress your guildies with your score. So you might as well practice wearing and using the stuff you are going to use when it matters.

It seems to me that your complaint about having people "off screen" to "cheese your build" doesn't line up with your last sentence.

So you're supposed to practice while wearing and using the stuff you are going to use when it matters, but you aren't supposed to practice while having the buffs/debuffs you are going to have when it matters?

The legitimate point of providing additional buffs in parses was to level the playing field across classes/builds and get a more accurate picture of what DPS numbers look like in real content.

MJallday wrote: »

You can complete everything in this game including vas +2 and vcr+3 with 30k

Obviously the more the better but it’s certainly all doable with lower numbers . It’s only certain guilds that get all elitist about it

Pedantic maybe, but this isn't true. You can't complete vSS HM with 30k DPS; you'll wipe on portal phase on Navi.

I also seriously doubt any group filled with DPS who only pull 30k on a dummy has ever cleared vAS+2 or vCR+3. The actual DPS parses in those trials may be around 30k, or even lower, but that's a result of mechanics (e.g., Olms is frequently immune to damage) or CMX weirdness (e.g., DPS on that fat purple slug gets split up for people who go downstairs and between the main fight and the execute phase). So people who are pulling 55k or whatever on a 6mil might only hit 30k on Olms, but people who are pulling 30k on a 6mil are only going to hit much lower.

Neoauspex · July 2019

Is this a nerf sorc thread yet?

Marginis · July 2019

I can pull a good 2k, maybe 4k DPS if I try really hard.

xeNNNNN · July 2019

Rerum wrote: »

What is your gear? But even if not talking about gear - your rotation really far from good if you pull 55k on 21mil atro. I saw 90k parses on magplar at consoles, so i'm sure people hit this numbers on sorcs.

Generally speaking 55k is decent enough for most raids barrings hardmodes.

Sure people could improve but implying its in any way bad numbers is kinda silly. Seeing as most people never go beyond 45k to begin with. The high end 90k parses numbers are coming from people who have far more time to dedicate to the game.

Should also point out however that parses alone should never be on a pedastal as they can be easily cheesed. At least on PC they can.