Why are StamDK's so dull? Or am I doing it wrong?

Durham · June 2019

I did not say it was a viable source. I just stated a fact about #s from the leader boards. I also said it feels like 4/5 EP players are currently DKs. If you are playing against EP atm you definately have seen a uptick in dks. By the way 1/10 on the leader boards are DK in AD.

Rhaegar75 · June 2019

I'm doing a little better due to adding a 3rd DOT: I'm using brawler and it seems to be putting more pressure on enemies. Less lacklustre

Raudgrani · June 2019

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I'm doing a little better due to adding a 3rd DOT: I'm using brawler and it seems to be putting more pressure on enemies. Less lacklustre

You know what? I completely fell in love with the Master's Maul on backbar. I have Fury on frontbar now, can't really decide if 7'th or Fury is best on body or backbar, but I can kind of go S&B and soak up abuse on frontbar, though it takes a while. That aside - suck up damage, and use Corrosive Armor, switch to 2H bar and what the f**k away into an enemy group with Master's 2H. It does seeeerious damage when you are buffed up (I tried Balorgh too, which is nice). I don't have a Master's Axe, but I imagine that would be even better since Corrosive ignores resistances, and since you get a nice bleed too (stacking with Carve, you have 2 more DOT's).

Xvorg · June 2019

Lokey0024 wrote: »

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Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Lets suppose sDK gets a poison whip. Would that poison whip hit harder than Uppercut?

Raudgrani · June 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Lets suppose sDK gets a poison whip. Would that poison whip hit harder than Uppercut?

I find Dizzy very difficult to use. I frankly suck at landing it properly. It's still slow too according to me. A whup would perhaps be faster, and easier to land.

Lokey0024 · June 2019

Roc

Xvorg wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Lets suppose sDK gets a poison whip. Would that poison whip hit harder than Uppercut?

Not harder, just more consistently. In ideal settings dizzy swing is good, but add lag And your opponent skipping around.....you get the point.
I think both versions of whip are too good on mdk to take them away, would be alot of pissed off people. I suggest a stonefist morph. It brings minor brutality, a little Stam return with passives for heavy armor users and even better for medium, opens up build diversity. Remove the CC spam with a debuff.

Could maybe develop a new animation for punching someone, and they can use it on crystal frags morph no one uses for Stam sorcs.

Raudgrani · June 2019

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Roc
show previous quotes

Xvorg wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Lets suppose sDK gets a poison whip. Would that poison whip hit harder than Uppercut?

Not harder, just more consistently. In ideal settings dizzy swing is good, but add lag And your opponent skipping around.....you get the point.
I think both versions of whip are too good on mdk to take them away, would be alot of pissed off people. I suggest a stonefist morph. It brings minor brutality, a little Stam return with passives for heavy armor users and even better for medium, opens up build diversity. Remove the CC spam with a debuff.

Could maybe develop a new animation for punching someone, and they can use it on crystal frags morph no one uses for Stam sorcs.

You should present this in some more official "give-DK's-a-stam-spammable" thread, best one I've seen. I hardly know anyone using the fist, far less people would be upset if one morph was changed.

fred4 · June 2019

OP: My first character is a Nord stam DK. I don't play her much these days, but I know what you mean. I look at my (unbuffed) tooltip for Reverse Slice and it's usually nowhere, e.g. below 4K, in many of my builds, unlike my stamsorc or stamplar. What turned it around, for me, was wearing a medium Deadly Strike setup and a proper DOT build, e.g. Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath, Blood Craze, Bloodthirst, Poison Injection (PvP) or Arrow Barrage (PvE). Melts flag guards and makes short work of vMA.

I haven't PvPd enough to say whether a DW / Bow setup is viable. I think it's too squishy to be honest, but the DOT gameplay convinced me. The other alternative, or something to use in combination, is Light Attack / Heroic Slash / Bash and Reverberating Bash as the CC. The defile tends to work wonders against players.

Vlad9425 · June 2019

It's just a boring class imo. There are ways to have fun and do well as a Stam DK but the class just feels too stale. I believe the only way this class could become interesting is if they add a Stam whip morph to the kit.

Davadin · June 2019

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It's just a boring class imo. There are ways to have fun and do well as a Stam DK but the class just feels too stale. I believe the only way this class could become interesting is if they add a Stam whip morph to the kit.

I believe it is if they add ANY stam morph to the kit.

Unlike other classes, stamDK are forced to be the weapon-skills user.

Which, in theory, may be a good idea, but in practice falls short of ALL other classes when subjected to the same toolbars. Why? Because other class I believe are designed to perform with their own class skills, and ANY weapon they use, it can augment their performance. While stamDK are FORCED to rely on weapon skills to perform at any level.

But hey, I'm just an old radio repeating the same news. ZOS won't change anything. They had their chance and they buffed magDK (understandably), but didn't touch stam at all.....

Trancestor · June 2019

Davadin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It's just a boring class imo. There are ways to have fun and do well as a Stam DK but the class just feels too stale. I believe the only way this class could become interesting is if they add a Stam whip morph to the kit.

Unlike other classes, stamDK are forced to be the weapon-skills user.

No that is Stamsorc, stamdks have Noxious and claw at least, and Leap/Corrosive as really good ultis, what does Stamsorc have for offense? One passive AoE DoT that does no dmg?
Stamdk might be kinda boring because no spammable, but it is doing really good this patch and the change to cauterize was a huge buff for stamdk.

Davadin · June 2019

Trancestor wrote: »

show previous quotes

Davadin wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It's just a boring class imo. There are ways to have fun and do well as a Stam DK but the class just feels too stale. I believe the only way this class could become interesting is if they add a Stam whip morph to the kit.

Unlike other classes, stamDK are forced to be the weapon-skills user.

No that is Stamsorc, stamdks have Noxious and claw at least, and Leap/Corrosive as really good ultis, what does Stamsorc have for offense? One passive AoE DoT that does no dmg?
Stamdk might be kinda boring because no spammable, but it is doing really good this patch and the change to cauterize was a huge buff for stamdk.

right.

the other sobbing kid at the other corner of the room.

hi! *waves*

Vlad9425 · June 2019

Davadin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It's just a boring class imo. There are ways to have fun and do well as a Stam DK but the class just feels too stale. I believe the only way this class could become interesting is if they add a Stam whip morph to the kit.

I believe it is if they add ANY stam morph to the kit.

Unlike other classes, stamDK are forced to be the weapon-skills user.

Which, in theory, may be a good idea, but in practice falls short of ALL other classes when subjected to the same toolbars. Why? Because other class I believe are designed to perform with their own class skills, and ANY weapon they use, it can augment their performance. While stamDK are FORCED to rely on weapon skills to perform at any level.

But hey, I'm just an old radio repeating the same news. ZOS won't change anything. They had their chance and they buffed magDK (understandably), but didn't touch stam at all.....

I truly believe Stam Whip is the answer. If someone told me that a Stam Morph spammable was getting added to the DK class I would instantly jump on and try to make a Stam DK work again.

Rhaegar75 · June 2019

I'm using the build below....normal meta is sooooo boring! Medium and bow gives me a lot more mobility albeit less tankyness. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1iCwW3vPHo&list=PLFIehJ7Y0-T6Qv94o8TX_oFEe07adY4Q2&index=1

Raudgrani · June 2019

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I'm using the build below....normal meta is sooooo boring! Medium and bow gives me a lot more mobility albeit less tankyness. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1iCwW3vPHo&list=PLFIehJ7Y0-T6Qv94o8TX_oFEe07adY4Q2&index=1

Quite long ago I used Venomous Serpent and Morag Tong in an otherwise quite similar build. Damage wasn't very bad, but I had problems surviving and had to stay more ranged than I wanted.