Why are StamDK's so dull? Or am I doing it wrong?

Raudgrani

I have a Nord StamDK. Wearing all gold Fury/Seventh Legion/Bloodspawn. For PVP obviously. Sure I get kills on it, and I am doing quite well with him. But ffs., I have like +6k weapon damage buffed up, and I don't think it shows - at all. Even killing guards etc. makes me feel feeble much of the time, not impressive numbers at all - even within execute range and using Executioner. He frankly hits like a wet noodle, as they say. Major/Minor Brutality, Major Fracture on target, apply DOT's and all, but it feels like it stills takes forever to put people down.

I tried him with Heem-Jas/Fury and Balorgh previously, 5 medium that time. A little better damage, but I couldn't stay alive at all. Had to switch gear pretty much right away. Then I tried exactly same gear on my Nord stamina Warden. Omfg, *that's* a killing machine. At times, I can take down several really good players in a matter of seconds, health bars just disappear in no time. Zerg surfing is even more whack, just kick off Permafrost and Subassault and Spin at that back flag; and you have nonstop Major Berserk with +7k weapon damage. People die with every spin. And I'm much more survivable too - despite lower resistances etc. than on my StamDK.
I also have a 2H/(Asylum) Resto Nord Stamplar, wearing Sword-Singer/Automaton/Troll King. It's certainly not a "group build" (very single target actually), and I can't do very well in large scale battles with him, but his damage is also pretty damn amazing. Executioner can hit guards for nearly 80k, and I have been killing (probably pretty bad) players with basically Binding Javelin and Critrush.

The StamDK though, he feels like some failed old wrestler, trying to find a career where he can do well - but just can't get his act together. All big steroid muscles, but no actual strength. He's a Legate, and I got there back in the days when you could still play werewolf in PVP; but that doesn't work anymore for me, with a dozen snares, stuns, knockbacks + even more DOT's all the time. I have to spend all my time just trying to stay alive, so I need to do something different with him. I don't want to delete him...

So, how are you really doing it well on a StamDK? Numbers are all nice as far as I can see, but I can't make wonders happen with him...

Trancestor

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Raudgrani

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Aedaryl

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Sheuib

Most people can’t play all the classes good. I do really good with my magicka templar and my stam warden. All the others I will suffer through to get level 1 rewards and that’s it because I suck at them.

Raudgrani

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

SilverPaws

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Ahzek

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

If you can 1vX someone, they either aren‘t a good player or are not invested in the fight.

That said, from what i gathered about stam DK, their biggest strength comes from their ability to consistently stall out fights due to their high tankiness until they are able to burst people down with the incredibly powerful corrosive armor.

Davadin

different class, different skillset, different playstyle... yes it's different.

What everyone will tell you is you wanna play the class' strength.

for DK, most of our class passive works best with Heavy Armor and tanking. The class skills also all revolves around DoT. So yes, if you compare it with a DPS stamDen, it'll feel like a wet noodle slap. not to mention weapons (DW = execute, SnB = debuff, 2H = burst, etc.)

So from here you got 2 options IMHO,
1. stay with tanky, high resist build for DoT and adding pressure, then ulti for execute.
2. build against PvP stamDK meta and go for burst DPS, knowing it'll never compare classes like stamDen, BUT u'll have the utility to stay alive better.

finally, you're a Nord. you got Bloodspawn too. Are you spamming ulti the way our race is meant to play?

Raudgrani

Davadin wrote: »

different class, different skillset, different playstyle... yes it's different.

What everyone will tell you is you wanna play the class' strength.

for DK, most of our class passive works best with Heavy Armor and tanking. The class skills also all revolves around DoT. So yes, if you compare it with a DPS stamDen, it'll feel like a wet noodle slap. not to mention weapons (DW = execute, SnB = debuff, 2H = burst, etc.)

So from here you got 2 options IMHO,
1. stay with tanky, high resist build for DoT and adding pressure, then ulti for execute.
2. build against PvP stamDK meta and go for burst DPS, knowing it'll never compare classes like stamDen, BUT u'll have the utility to stay alive better.

finally, you're a Nord. you got Bloodspawn too. Are you spamming ulti the way our race is meant to play?

Sorry for late reply!

Yes, I "nord" him. I wear Bloodspawn, and intentionally soak up minor damage during siege etc. to build ultimate. I tend to use "downie" for more offense, and leap or corrosive for defense. In group I tend to use leap - mostly because it's fun as f**k, but also because I can knock people from upstairs etc. to a death by fall damage.

I'm getting kills etc., but I'm baffled it's so syrup like to kill people, when I walk around with that high damage. On a warden with similar damage, it's like cutting through butter in comparison. Even slashes and light attacks do a better job on him, so it's not only the wonder of subassault/whirling blades that does it. My stamplar has less damage than the DK too (at least on sheet, I wear Automaton/Sword-Singer), and he knocks out people really fast.
The DK can slowly grind down people, wear them out and get kills through dots and a leap or dawnbreaker. I can't do that with the (medium armor) Warden, if target is too tanky I get the **** out of there and pick on someone else. The DK can bully people all day long, but I feel it's so surprisingly hard to get people from like 60% to 0% compared to any other class I've played. ;-D

Davadin

Raudgrani wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

different class, different skillset, different playstyle... yes it's different.

What everyone will tell you is you wanna play the class' strength.

for DK, most of our class passive works best with Heavy Armor and tanking. The class skills also all revolves around DoT. So yes, if you compare it with a DPS stamDen, it'll feel like a wet noodle slap. not to mention weapons (DW = execute, SnB = debuff, 2H = burst, etc.)

So from here you got 2 options IMHO,
1. stay with tanky, high resist build for DoT and adding pressure, then ulti for execute.
2. build against PvP stamDK meta and go for burst DPS, knowing it'll never compare classes like stamDen, BUT u'll have the utility to stay alive better.

finally, you're a Nord. you got Bloodspawn too. Are you spamming ulti the way our race is meant to play?

Sorry for late reply!

Yes, I "nord" him. I wear Bloodspawn, and intentionally soak up minor damage during siege etc. to build ultimate. I tend to use "downie" for more offense, and leap or corrosive for defense. In group I tend to use leap - mostly because it's fun as f**k, but also because I can knock people from upstairs etc. to a death by fall damage.

I'm getting kills etc., but I'm baffled it's so syrup like to kill people, when I walk around with that high damage. On a warden with similar damage, it's like cutting through butter in comparison. Even slashes and light attacks do a better job on him, so it's not only the wonder of subassault/whirling blades that does it. My stamplar has less damage than the DK too (at least on sheet, I wear Automaton/Sword-Singer), and he knocks out people really fast.
The DK can slowly grind down people, wear them out and get kills through dots and a leap or dawnbreaker. I can't do that with the (medium armor) Warden, if target is too tanky I get the **** out of there and pick on someone else. The DK can bully people all day long, but I feel it's so surprisingly hard to get people from like 60% to 0% compared to any other class I've played. ;-D

its just the trade of the class. we put on pressure. we can't compete with some other class on bursting our enemy like popping a pimple, but we can do a damn good job at it too.

I got an idea, reading your post.

Switch the ultimate plan in your head upside down.

Dawnbreaker with its DoT is a defensive pushback to stop people.

Leap/Corrosive is the offensive ulti. Because leap is more of a burst. If you got DW, simply Leap, a bit of Noxious spit to soften their armor, and start spin-to-win. Whirling blades morph still retain the execute buff, on top of DW's more damage under 25% (even moar execute).

Corrosive plays similarly that instead of using it as "oh ***" button, remember it has AoE poison DoT AND (much more importantly) all your attacks bypass the enemy's resistance. Use it.

Raudgrani

Davadin wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

different class, different skillset, different playstyle... yes it's different.

What everyone will tell you is you wanna play the class' strength.

for DK, most of our class passive works best with Heavy Armor and tanking. The class skills also all revolves around DoT. So yes, if you compare it with a DPS stamDen, it'll feel like a wet noodle slap. not to mention weapons (DW = execute, SnB = debuff, 2H = burst, etc.)

So from here you got 2 options IMHO,
1. stay with tanky, high resist build for DoT and adding pressure, then ulti for execute.
2. build against PvP stamDK meta and go for burst DPS, knowing it'll never compare classes like stamDen, BUT u'll have the utility to stay alive better.

finally, you're a Nord. you got Bloodspawn too. Are you spamming ulti the way our race is meant to play?

Sorry for late reply!

Yes, I "nord" him. I wear Bloodspawn, and intentionally soak up minor damage during siege etc. to build ultimate. I tend to use "downie" for more offense, and leap or corrosive for defense. In group I tend to use leap - mostly because it's fun as f**k, but also because I can knock people from upstairs etc. to a death by fall damage.

I'm getting kills etc., but I'm baffled it's so syrup like to kill people, when I walk around with that high damage. On a warden with similar damage, it's like cutting through butter in comparison. Even slashes and light attacks do a better job on him, so it's not only the wonder of subassault/whirling blades that does it. My stamplar has less damage than the DK too (at least on sheet, I wear Automaton/Sword-Singer), and he knocks out people really fast.
The DK can slowly grind down people, wear them out and get kills through dots and a leap or dawnbreaker. I can't do that with the (medium armor) Warden, if target is too tanky I get the **** out of there and pick on someone else. The DK can bully people all day long, but I feel it's so surprisingly hard to get people from like 60% to 0% compared to any other class I've played. ;-D

its just the trade of the class. we put on pressure. we can't compete with some other class on bursting our enemy like popping a pimple, but we can do a damn good job at it too.

I got an idea, reading your post.

Switch the ultimate plan in your head upside down.

Dawnbreaker with its DoT is a defensive pushback to stop people.

Leap/Corrosive is the offensive ulti. Because leap is more of a burst. If you got DW, simply Leap, a bit of Noxious spit to soften their armor, and start spin-to-win. Whirling blades morph still retain the execute buff, on top of DW's more damage under 25% (even moar execute).

Corrosive plays similarly that instead of using it as "oh ***" button, remember it has AoE poison DoT AND (much more importantly) all your attacks bypass the enemy's resistance. Use it.

This might be the best suggestion I've heard, remains to see. I will surely try. Thank you for input!

juhislihis19

stamDK is fun to play, but then on the other hand, kinda boring too. Tactic is basically to wait until opposition dies of old age. DOT, DOT, DOT, Mending+Vigor, DOT, DOT, DOT, throw in few Heroics there, apply more DOTs..

I myself don't want to play the meta HA Fury/7th, so I've opted for medium armor with Bone Pirate. I still get resistances up to 36k when Blood procs and weapon damage near 5k.

What I dislike with the class is the class skills stamDK's need to slot just for single purpose. Like Molten Whip has no other use for sDK. We can't even exploit the bug right now LOL. Then there's Fragmented Shield which sole purpose is to give Mending, same with Spiked Armor's resistances. Granted, 2 of them procs a passive BUT all these 3 skills benefit magDK's with secondary effects like a better damage shield, better DOT or spammable. Having played stamblade and stamden, I can't think of any other skills being used just for that one single purpose and having no use at all as secondary.

Like with Stamden, I used Birds of Prey for mobility as the Expedition comes in handy along with Minor Berserk for slotting it. Slotting it also increases damage through passive.

My solution would be a stamina morph for either of Spiked Armor's morphs and possibly an Ardent Flame passive, that that mainly benefits stamDK's. Because in order to use Molten, we need to slot either Breath or Claw, and because Molten doesn't have any other use for us, at least it could benefit through a passive.

Davadin

juhislihis19 wrote: »

stamDK is fun to play, but then on the other hand, kinda boring too. Tactic is basically to wait until opposition dies of old age. DOT, DOT, DOT, Mending+Vigor, DOT, DOT, DOT, throw in few Heroics there, apply more DOTs..

I myself don't want to play the meta HA Fury/7th, so I've opted for medium armor with Bone Pirate. I still get resistances up to 36k when Blood procs and weapon damage near 5k.

What I dislike with the class is the class skills stamDK's need to slot just for single purpose. Like Molten Whip has no other use for sDK. We can't even exploit the bug right now LOL. Then there's Fragmented Shield which sole purpose is to give Mending, same with Spiked Armor's resistances. Granted, 2 of them procs a passive BUT all these 3 skills benefit magDK's with secondary effects like a better damage shield, better DOT or spammable. Having played stamblade and stamden, I can't think of any other skills being used just for that one single purpose and having no use at all as secondary.

Like with Stamden, I used Birds of Prey for mobility as the Expedition comes in handy along with Minor Berserk for slotting it. Slotting it also increases damage through passive.

My solution would be a stamina morph for either of Spiked Armor's morphs and possibly an Ardent Flame passive, that that mainly benefits stamDK's. Because in order to use Molten, we need to slot either Breath or Claw, and because Molten doesn't have any other use for us, at least it could benefit through a passive.

ditto. i had my share of running meta and it got boring fast.

coz unless im roaming around solo, i'm just not that useful in Cyro. My purpose is put pressure until my friends got here or the guy made a mistake.

good news tho med armor works "well" too. our passives serve as defense buffer, so for offense u need to rely on weapon skill.

IMHO, after being here since BETA, it does feel like ALL class are meant to use Magicka, and Stamina use the weapon lines... in general...

...until Necro came....lol

Durham

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

Davadin

Durham wrote: »

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

block....... spam spam spam WINGS block........... spam spam spam WINGS block.........................

hit ulti every now and then.

GeorgeBlack

Durham wrote: »

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

Delete 7th furry and BS from the game. Then post the same crap about DK

LordTareq

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

Delete 7th furry and BS from the game. Then post the same crap about DK

They are easy to play though. Not as simple as a sorcerer, but second place imho. DK burst is there but heavily tied to their ultimate.

Ragnarock41

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Lokey0024

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Ragnarock41

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Weapon abilities exist, so that stamina classes can make up for what their class kit lacks , but while bleeds OUTPERFORM stamDk's dots, weapon spammables do not overperform spammables like suprise attack or jabs.

The point is, stamDK is gimped by the available weapon spammables being bad, and avaliable weapon dots being too strong.

Any class right now can have some crazy dot presence if they are using dual wield or a 2 hander. That is supposed to be stamDK's expertise.

It would be only fair if Dk had an actual spammable without having to use SnB. Though, even if we had good spammables, you would still play a *insert another stamina class here* over stamDk for it is just a better version of sDk.

SilverPaws

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Weapon abilities exist, so that stamina classes can make up for what their class kit lacks , but while bleeds OUTPERFORM stamDk's dots, weapon spammables do not overperform spammables like suprise attack or jabs.

The point is, stamDK is gimped by the available weapon spammables being bad, and avaliable weapon dots being too strong.

Any class right now can have some crazy dot presence if they are using dual wield or a 2 hander. That is supposed to be stamDK's expertise.

It would be only fair if Dk had an actual spammable without having to use SnB. Though, even if we had good spammables, you would still play a *insert another stamina class here* over stamDk for it is just a better version of sDk.

I know what you mean by the passives. But even other classes using basic snb setup using heroic slash won't do much dmg, because the spammable is just not good, but i agree passives on stamdk are just *** and not usable most of the time.

Lokey0024

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Weapon abilities exist, so that stamina classes can make up for what their class kit lacks , but while bleeds OUTPERFORM stamDk's dots, weapon spammables do not overperform spammables like suprise attack or jabs.

The point is, stamDK is gimped by the available weapon spammables being bad, and avaliable weapon dots being too strong.

Any class right now can have some crazy dot presence if they are using dual wield or a 2 hander. That is supposed to be stamDK's expertise.

It would be only fair if Dk had an actual spammable without having to use SnB. Though, even if we had good spammables, you would still play a *insert another stamina class here* over stamDk for it is just a better version of sDk.

My vote would be stonefist. Or maybe a minor defile passive on poison dots. Or make the poison kitty scratch stack up to 3-5 times to strengthen the dot and not get cleansed immediately.

DKsUnite

Yeh you are doing it wrong. I only run like 4.4k WD and I kill people quite easily.

Raudgrani

DKsUnite wrote: »

Yeh you are doing it wrong. I only run like 4.4k WD and I kill people quite easily.

Nice for you. But that really didn't bring much to the table, did it?

SilverPaws

DKsUnite wrote: »

Yeh you are doing it wrong. I only run like 4.4k WD and I kill people quite easily.

Then you don't fight good players.

Trancestor

SilverPaws wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Weapon abilities exist, so that stamina classes can make up for what their class kit lacks , but while bleeds OUTPERFORM stamDk's dots, weapon spammables do not overperform spammables like suprise attack or jabs.

The point is, stamDK is gimped by the available weapon spammables being bad, and avaliable weapon dots being too strong.

Any class right now can have some crazy dot presence if they are using dual wield or a 2 hander. That is supposed to be stamDK's expertise.

It would be only fair if Dk had an actual spammable without having to use SnB. Though, even if we had good spammables, you would still play a *insert another stamina class here* over stamDk for it is just a better version of sDk.

I know what you mean by the passives. But even other classes using basic snb setup using heroic slash won't do much dmg, because the spammable is just not good, but i agree passives on stamdk are just *** and not usable most of the time.

Heroic + Bash cancel hits really hard and also provides minor maim, minor heroism and a big snare, so idk what you people are on about here. Even if stamdk gets poison whip or something, s&b heroic would still be meta. And people saying Stamdk is the weapon ability class, have you ever played stamsorc?

SilverPaws

Trancestor wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Are you using s&b and bash canceling every heroic slash? Also Corrosive helps a ton vs tanky players.

Most of the time I do, yes. I typically run S&B/2H with him, as you've already understood. That's also a thing. When I ran S&B/2H with said stamplar (Ravager/Hulking Draugr), it wasn't at all rare to see Ransac or Heroic Slash hit NPC's (guards) for like +18k damage. It's way less on the poor old DK, I wouldn't say half of that but rather around 11k crit hits. The Warden was also pretty damn lethal on S&B, but the DK feels like a castrated housecat in comparison. ;-D

Fury need crit to proc, and it need 25 crits to be fully active.

Since NPC don't crit, they don't proc fury at all, resulting to a 750 weapon damage + 20% from major brutality + 10% from minor brutality + 5% from S&B LOST. That's around 1k WD, even more if with PvP passives + continious attack.

Having low damage on guard compared to the stamplar is normal.

And no, you aren't killing several good player with a single one shot stamden combo. People dying to that aren't good player.

Your problem probably come from your playstyle.

You are probably not LA/Heroic/bash well and/or you don't play right with Fury, meaning you aren't procing it enough.

Playing with fury is a playstyle, you don't LoS/retreat like a stamplar. And Zerg surfing isn't optimal for fury. Going with permafrost in the zerg is good to proc it.

I suggest you to use a-show-in-real-time Weapon damage add-on to see.

Well. I haven't said I take down several good players in one combo, but in a matter of seconds. It's the Permafrost/Subassault/Steel Tornado business, and then having Slashes and Master's Bow injection on them beforehand.
Yeah, I know how Fury works, but even without Fury or 7'th Legion being active at all, I have like 4k weapon damage - in heavy, right. But I have been running heavy armor builds with less than that, and they have still had a more powerful bite than he does.

I dunno, but I have pretty many Fury stacks when I zerg surf, between like 15 to max much of the time when there's a big fight (like capturing an inner keep, or fighting in a tower etc.). When there's constant damage input from all directions, it's pretty easy to keep it up. I actually intentionally "eat damage" to keep it up, and sure it works. But for those nasty numbers, I would expect a lot more bang for the bucks than I see. I can't understand it. I've even been wondering if the whole character is glitched in some way. ;-D

Because stamdk overall has the worst damage of all classes, because we don't have any good spammable.

Its not a spammable related issue but the lack of good passives that lets stamDK down.

Think about it, Its the ''weapon skill class'', yet other classes do better at using weapon abilities, do more damage with them, have more cost reduction etc.

Thats the core reason why stamDk hits like wet noodle and needs the most OP gear combo in the game just to be viable.

Also the recent damage nerf to uppercut did not help. Of any class, StamDk already had the LOWEST tooltip on that ability.

Not a spamable issue, but is. Huh?

Weapon abilities exist, so that stamina classes can make up for what their class kit lacks , but while bleeds OUTPERFORM stamDk's dots, weapon spammables do not overperform spammables like suprise attack or jabs.

The point is, stamDK is gimped by the available weapon spammables being bad, and avaliable weapon dots being too strong.

Any class right now can have some crazy dot presence if they are using dual wield or a 2 hander. That is supposed to be stamDK's expertise.

It would be only fair if Dk had an actual spammable without having to use SnB. Though, even if we had good spammables, you would still play a *insert another stamina class here* over stamDk for it is just a better version of sDk.

I know what you mean by the passives. But even other classes using basic snb setup using heroic slash won't do much dmg, because the spammable is just not good, but i agree passives on stamdk are just *** and not usable most of the time.

Heroic + Bash cancel hits really hard and also provides minor maim, minor heroism and a big snare, so idk what you people are on about here. Even if stamdk gets poison whip or something, s&b heroic would still be meta. And people saying Stamdk is the weapon ability class, have you ever played stamsorc?

This is thread about stamdk not stamsorc. Also stamsorc has better dmg and until cauterize had even better healing. They could use love as well I agree, but try to stay on topic maybe ?

Rhaegar75

I was thinking to go DW or even Bow + 2H to be able to add more damage!

Any of you guys using sets that differ from the current meta?

Durham

LordTareq wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

Delete 7th furry and BS from the game. Then post the same crap about DK

They are easy to play though. Not as simple as a sorcerer, but second place imho. DK burst is there but heavily tied to their ultimate.

You dont have to have those two sets and yes I will post the same crap about the class. Its a EASY CLASS TO PLAY! Seriously no fun to fight against someone holding down block. Red leader Boards are 1/3 DK but it feels like almost 4/5 ep is a dk right now..

Wing

Durham wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

1/3 of EP is now a DK. They are easy as hell to play put a below average PVP'er on one and he is still decent because they are just simple to play. Put that same person on a stam sorc, or stamplar he will die ...

Delete 7th furry and BS from the game. Then post the same crap about DK

They are easy to play though. Not as simple as a sorcerer, but second place imho. DK burst is there but heavily tied to their ultimate.

You dont have to have those two sets and yes I will post the same crap about the class. Its a EASY CLASS TO PLAY! Seriously no fun to fight against someone holding down block. Red leader Boards are 1/3 DK but it feels like almost 4/5 ep is a dk right now..

mmmm leaderboards are not really a viable source of OP or not, leaderboard players are in groups and group AP is split, not to mention sources of AP that have nothing to do with actual fighting (repairing, pvdoor, etc)