Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
How can magcros be this bad? how can magicka builds in general be THIS BAD THIS LONG?
-
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not saying the magicka necro parses are fine. I'm saying no one should care so much about numbers. Also, the magicka necro is pretty much unkillable so long as they have magicka. If you live longer than the enemy, you win. That's not something one should dismiss entirely when evluationg how a class performs.
This^^^ So many damage meter addicts only look at raw dps numbers. A player doing 10% less individual dps but having buffs or debuffs that increase the rest of the raids dps by 5% or makes the healers job easier is bringing far more to the raid than some flavour of the month choosing player who only cares about being the top of the table to stroke their epeen.
6 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The current state of mag does suck. dont think we will see an improvement tho. its elder stam online....
The time when Magicka will get a second viable weapon choice with an entire skill set (doesn’t it melee or range honestly) might be the time when it will get better. Maybe in Chapter IV, who knows. Being limited to one weapon would be okay if the skillset would be good in its entirety. But Magicka DPS doesn’t solely lack a secondary skill line, it’s only DPS skill line is full of underwhelming and weak skills that don’t compare to the Stamina ones.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hallothiel wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
considering the fact that macro is, on average, doing way less than all other DD classes atm, there needs to be a change.
I meant in the sense that when I started playing back in the day, no-one was anywhere near these kind of figures for any dps - but now it’s ‘not good enough’.
thats because the end game content is growing more difficult and more dps is needed to keep up, or you risk wiping.
1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Look at Liko's collection of raid dummy parses: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuLGCNYH1t5DyQQ5tfU4Hdw/videos
Or rather, don't. People really, REALLY need to stop caring about numbers on a dummy.
That doesn't reflect a real fight. What is your optimum on a static target, that never moves, from which you never dodge any AoE, that never even tries to CC you, etc ? Well, truly, no one should care. The result you get on a dummy should merely be an indication about how you improved since the last time you tried, that's all.
In real combat condition, you need to dodge. Stamina characters will use up their main, damage ressource for that, magicka ones will not, meaning dodging has no effect on a magicka user damage-wise. Barely interrupts their rotation for a split second. Being a glass canon means you may find youself dead more than you should, and the dead's DPS is always zero. And what do you say about a characters whose damage is rather low, but consistent on any number of targets ? Do you test it in the middle of a dozen dummies and add up all the AoE DPS ? Because you should. Or, again, everyone should stop caring about parsing and evaluate actual combat performance.
My main never got anything above 15k on a dummy. never cared for raids that much anyway, and since bosmers lost their stealth I had to gear up even more for that. That makes my combat prowesses even lower. An yet situations where I actually can't win are so rare that I am truly suprised and a bit annoyed when I do die. I have one "consistent Ao damage" character. Her numbers on a dummy are ridiculusly low. Her numbers on a dozen dummies are ridiculously low per dummy, but they add up. And what doesn't show on a dummy is that every attack she does will slightly heal her and / or her allies, making the fight much easier for everyone. How does that parse on a dummy ?
I'm not saying the magicka necro parses are fine. I'm saying no one should care so much about numbers. Also, the magicka necro is pretty much unkillable so long as they have magicka. If you live longer than the enemy, you win. That's not something one should dismiss entirely when evluationg how a class performs.Hallothiel wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
considering the fact that macro is, on average, doing way less than all other DD classes atm, there needs to be a change.
I meant in the sense that when I started playing back in the day, no-one was anywhere near these kind of figures for any dps - but now it’s ‘not good enough’.
This and this.
Unless you're in a bleeding edge content guild, who cares?
Does the boss die? Did you enjoy it?
That's what should matter.
Why does everyone on this forum act like they burn down HM after it immediately comes out? Even for the small sample size of the forum, that's not possible.
Repeatedly been told on this forum 35/40k is all that's needed to do trials...if you're hitting 40k, should just be enjoyment after that, right?
Everyone needs to stop acting like you're a member of Hodor and just learn to enjoy the game a little more. Beating content should be the goal, ya know, like in the team effort sort of way.
The thing about parses is that there will ALWAYS be someone in last. Is that player not considered "good" because he/she pulls off a flawless rotation and carries thier own weight and just happens to be at the bottom?
You see how ridiculous this is? Just ego stroking.
Kill bosses, have fun.
All the rest is nonsense.Edited by Kel on June 21, 2019 9:09AM5 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hallothiel wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
considering the fact that macro is, on average, doing way less than all other DD classes atm, there needs to be a change.
I meant in the sense that when I started playing back in the day, no-one was anywhere near these kind of figures for any dps - but now it’s ‘not good enough’.
Introduce a hard cap at 40k DPS. Problem solved. And maybe people would start caring about actual tactics rather than forced mechanics ; how to survive when you have no healer ; actual, proper tanking rarther than calling a buff monkey a tank, and whatnot.3 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magplars can argue with statement that magicka is underperforming. Just look some logs from vCR. Top groups take as much magplars as possible.
Magblades and petsorcs are kinda OK. Good group fill if you are going trial where stamina is unfavored and you can't take enough magplars.
MagDK is underperforming. The spec feels good with very interesting rotation so only numerical buffs are needed. But ZoS is feared to make any significant buff to magDKs after 1.6. magDK godmode (another evidence that PvE and PvP should be balanced separately).
Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.Edited by Olupajmibanan on June 21, 2019 10:06AM1 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe it's you, OP. Maybe you have reached the pinnacle of your playing abilities.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The current state of mag does suck. dont think we will see an improvement tho. its elder stam online....
The time when Magicka will get a second viable weapon choice with an entire skill set (doesn’t it melee or range honestly) might be the time when it will get better. Maybe in Chapter IV, who knows. Being limited to one weapon would be okay if the skillset would be good in its entirety. But Magicka DPS doesn’t solely lack a secondary skill line, it’s only DPS skill line is full of underwhelming and weak skills that don’t compare to the Stamina ones.
I dont know, Not having a second weapon use to not be so bad. Back when lighting with offbalance was still a good choice and we had strong abilitys in class lines
I dont think the sustain nerf helped, its alot harder to heavy attack with staffs then melee weapons. Especially with fire staff and thats really the only viable choice.
Shield nerfs didnt help either. mag dps use to be the more survivable option which was valuable in alot of situations. Stam was higher numbers but with less survuvability. Now that stam and mag are about the same survuvability its just a numbers game and stam wins1 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Look at Liko's collection of raid dummy parses: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuLGCNYH1t5DyQQ5tfU4Hdw/videos
Of course there's some variance, other people who specialize in a given build may be able to push them a bit higher, most people aren't as good as Liko and will parse lower, but the range is:
Magden: 86k
Magblade: 87k
MagDK: 89k
Magnecro: 89k
Magplar: 90k
Stamplar: 90k
Magsorc (1 pet): 91k
Magsorc (2 pet): 93k
StamDK: 94k
Stamblade: 95k
Stamsorc: 96k
Stamden: 97k
Stamnecro: 102k
Stamnecro is an outlier and probably needs to be tuned down a bit, but aside from that, it's literally steps of 1-2k between each spec. The difference between magnecro and stamnecro is 13k here .. the stamnecro parse is about 15% higher, which is a far cry from "50% more damage".
Stamnecro aside, I don't think mag DPS averaging ~90k and stam DPS averaging ~95k is all that out of whack.
I really wish people would stop linking these parses unless they're able to reproduce them. These parses have absolutely nothing to do with what is happening in trial instances. I guess if you don't play a mag necro in trials you don't really understand how unrealistic that parse is, but since I actually play the class, I can tell you that it's extremely unrealistic because the parse is in melee range. If you don't understand why this is a problem, go make a mag necro on PTS and try to reproduce that parse from 20m range.
There is plenty of real world data out there on esologs.
https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/12#metric=dps&aggregate=amount&dataset=99
https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/12#metric=dps&aggregate=amount&dataset=95
Yes, a magicka necro on top of a dummy/in melee range with major vulnerability may be able to come close to the parses of other magicka classes. Give major vuln to the rest of your raid and don't cast a blastbones every third gcd because you're not playing in melee range 100% of the time on your magicka character (great class design btw) and you're going to end up behind. Then don't cast siphon because it doesn't even hit the *** bosses and you're going to be even further behind.
It's pretty *** bad.
Nonsense.
First, you can't reliably reproduce most of those parses from 20m for a variety of reasons. All of the magicka parses are in melee range using Rearming Trap and Zaan.
Second, the melee range requirement is not exclusive to magnecros. Stamnecros suffer from the same thing in bow/bow setups. MagDKs are of course a melee build. Magblades have to be in melee range for Soul Harvest.
Third, you actually can stay in melee range in the majority of the content in the game. vAS is the only real exception outside of some other individual fights or mechanics. There's no reason you can't stay in melee range on a magnecro the majority of the time in vSS, vMoL, vHoF, vAA, vHRC, vSO, and most of vCR.
And Syphon doesn't work in vSS on stamnecros, either. It gets slotted for the 3% damage done bonus and the execute crit bonus but it's useless other than that in boss fights. And this is far from the only thing broken in vSS boss fights that really skews the numbers in there ... Alkosh, Zaan, pet targeting, Grothdarr ... a bunch of stuff doesn't work right on the dumb dragon hitboxes. Watch a bunch of Skeletal Archers or a Twilight or a Greater Storm Atro stacked *right on top of a dragon* turn around and start focusing Flame Atros or Storm Atros that are 10m away.
And also ... you're linking vSS HM data that literally includes 14 magnecro parses as if that says anything useful. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that no one is logging them in Sunspire HM ... because the people clearing Sunspire HM are top groups gravitating towards optimal group comps. You could use that same data to demonstrate that stamwardens are near the bottom of the the stam tier list and no one uses them, but that's obviously ridiculous. Everyone who cares enough to optimize is pushing stamnecro groups in that raid because Pestilent Colossus is ridiculously OP and stamnecros are generally overtuned.
And also, it's worth noting that the range limitation on Blastbones isn't really inherently part of the "class design" and I don't think it's a poor reflection of such. The skill worked fine from range in v5.0.0; the delay on its leap was introduced in v5.0.2 because of PvP whining.
This person here is a prime example of the small percentage of players on the forums who actually know what they’re talking about.
Seriously, the fact that OP said he’s pulling 50% less dps LITERALLY on magcro then stamcro and the entire post wasn’t disregarded off rip is why we need invite only forums.
Frankly I find the defenders of magcro mor empyrical. You shouldn’t embellish in the future. Twice as much damage? That’s a l2p issue.
The one issue I have is that these parses were done in top gear with optimal conditions. There may be a curve or cap where the two specs diverge. Maybe magcros need that hi end engine where Stamcros perform okay with the cheap stuff. That would be a valid argument. But embellishments are embellishments.0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
considering the fact that macro is, on average, doing way less than all other DD classes atm, there needs to be a change.
I meant in the sense that when I started playing back in the day, no-one was anywhere near these kind of figures for any dps - but now it’s ‘not good enough’.
Introduce a hard cap at 40k DPS. Problem solved. And maybe people would start caring about actual tactics rather than forced mechanics ; how to survive when you have no healer ; actual, proper tanking rarther than calling a buff monkey a tank, and whatnot.
You do know the average dps required to complete the final boss HM in Sunspire is higher than 40k right? As in its over 11 million health that needs to be downed in 90 seconds.0 -
Neyane✭✭✭✭Magnecro is definitely under-performing. I did some hard content on her - they are capable, but the damage is much lower than other classes. Such a shame cause it really is a fun class, but so many parts are bugged, they're just not hitting as hard as stam is or ANY magicka class.Edited by Neyane on June 21, 2019 12:43PMThe most important thing in life is enjoying yourself.ValkyrieMikuu ♥1200+ PC EU ♥1000+ PS EU ♥Last time I played ESO on PC was before covid. I'm back ^.^2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I agree that dummy parses aren't very good to compare classes, they are only good to compare mechanical skill of players within that class, or to monitor progression of particular player. But ESO logs is another case, they clearly show usage and effectiveness of each class, so we may only hope that PVE combat team (Idk if it exists) will take that data in consideration and buff under-performing classes.0 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mag was emperor of the DPS for a bit. Now it's Stamina.
Just seems to go back ad forth.Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.
Duo inferno petsorc is currently the most popular magsorc spec. They do not use Mage's Wrath (they don't even slot it) and their dps is still solid. Maybe not as high as magplar or magblade, but still a looooot higher than magDK, magwarden and magcro. The problem with these three is more than just lack of execute ability.Edited by Olupajmibanan on June 21, 2019 12:54PM0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »Mag was emperor of the DPS for a bit. Now it's Stamina.
Just seems to go back ad forth.
Only due to bad trial design, vCR and vAS heavily favour magicka dps due to shields and overall survivability.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »Mag was emperor of the DPS for a bit. Now it's Stamina.
Just seems to go back ad forth.
Stamina is the top DPS since what, years? Magicka dominance is a thing of the distant past. Yes, there was a time where Magicka was best in everything. That time has long gone and now Stamina is performing better in almost every regard.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.
Duo inferno petsorc is currently the most popular magsorc spec. They do not use Mage's Wrath (they don't even slot it) and their dps is still solid. Maybe not as high as magplar or magblade, but still a looooot higher than magDK, magwarden and magcro. The problem with these three is more than just lack of execute ability.
The missing execute is one of the things. Maybe not all of it but definitely part of. And that Sorcerer pets are overperforming (a lot) is no secret.Edited by Seraphayel on June 21, 2019 1:39PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Kuramas9tails wrote: »Mag was emperor of the DPS for a bit. Now it's Stamina.
Just seems to go back ad forth.
Stamina is the top DPS since what, years? Magicka dominance is a thing of the distant past. Yes, there was a time where Magicka was best in everything. That time has long gone and now Stamina is performing better in almost every regard.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.
Duo inferno petsorc is currently the most popular magsorc spec. They do not use Mage's Wrath (they don't even slot it) and their dps is still solid. Maybe not as high as magplar or magblade, but still a looooot higher than magDK, magwarden and magcro. The problem with these three is more than just lack of execute ability.
The missing execute is one of the things. Maybe not all of it but definitely part of. And that Sorcerer pets are overperforming (a lot) is no secret.
Power of sorcerer pets is the only thing that keeps magsorc outside of the excrement group (magDK, magwarden and magcro). Pets are balancing magsorc dps and make gap between magsorc and top magicka classes smaller.
If you are talking about pets being overperforming in PvP that's another story, and just another example of desperate need for separate balancing of PvP and PvE.0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magplars can argue with statement that magicka is underperforming. Just look some logs from vCR. Top groups take as much magplars as possible.
Magblades and petsorcs are kinda OK. Good group fill if you are going trial where stamina is unfavored and you can't take enough magplars.
MagDK is underperforming. The spec feels good with very interesting rotation so only numerical buffs are needed. But ZoS is feared to make any significant buff to magDKs after 1.6. magDK godmode (another evidence that PvE and PvP should be balanced separately).
Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Cannot agree to magblades being ok. Their rotation is hard and damage is quite low. Petsorcs, magplars and stamcro are kings of PvE right now2 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Kuramas9tails wrote: »Mag was emperor of the DPS for a bit. Now it's Stamina.
Just seems to go back ad forth.
Stamina is the top DPS since what, years? Magicka dominance is a thing of the distant past. Yes, there was a time where Magicka was best in everything. That time has long gone and now Stamina is performing better in almost every regard.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.
Duo inferno petsorc is currently the most popular magsorc spec. They do not use Mage's Wrath (they don't even slot it) and their dps is still solid. Maybe not as high as magplar or magblade, but still a looooot higher than magDK, magwarden and magcro. The problem with these three is more than just lack of execute ability.
The missing execute is one of the things. Maybe not all of it but definitely part of. And that Sorcerer pets are overperforming (a lot) is no secret.
Power of sorcerer pets is the only thing that keeps magsorc outside of the excrement group (magDK, magwarden and magcro). Pets are balancing magsorc dps and make gap between magsorc and top magicka classes smaller.
If you are talking about pets being overperforming in PvP that's another story, and just another example of desperate need for separate balancing of PvP and PvE.
Gw2 have separate balancing for pvp and pve. And you know what ? Pvp there is trash anyway. Even worse than here.0 -
MooseKnuckles88✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
I blame the culture of the game for that. People see a stat sheet and just see say Magdens near the bottom of the dps list and automatically assume they're hot garbage and can't run nFG1. I must have missed when pulling over 50k dps became hot garbage in this game.
A lot of people get hung up on vet trial score runs and min/maxing but most of those same people don't even partake in that content but go about it like they do.0 -
D3N7157✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Magden has been out for over 2 years now and hasn't been buffed once. It's still the worst class in the game. Don't get your hopes up for a buff to magcro.
You all might be amazed when i tell you magden is amazing in PVP
0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magcro makes a good Tank thats about it. Switched to stam for speedsXbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Look at Liko's collection of raid dummy parses: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuLGCNYH1t5DyQQ5tfU4Hdw/videos
Of course there's some variance, other people who specialize in a given build may be able to push them a bit higher, most people aren't as good as Liko and will parse lower, but the range is:
Magden: 86k
Magblade: 87k
MagDK: 89k
Magnecro: 89k
Magplar: 90k
Stamplar: 90k
Magsorc (1 pet): 91k
Magsorc (2 pet): 93k
StamDK: 94k
Stamblade: 95k
Stamsorc: 96k
Stamden: 97k
Stamnecro: 102k
Stamnecro is an outlier and probably needs to be tuned down a bit, but aside from that, it's literally steps of 1-2k between each spec. The difference between magnecro and stamnecro is 13k here .. the stamnecro parse is about 15% higher, which is a far cry from "50% more damage".
Stamnecro aside, I don't think mag DPS averaging ~90k and stam DPS averaging ~95k is all that out of whack.
I really wish people would stop linking these parses unless they're able to reproduce them. These parses have absolutely nothing to do with what is happening in trial instances. I guess if you don't play a mag necro in trials you don't really understand how unrealistic that parse is, but since I actually play the class, I can tell you that it's extremely unrealistic because the parse is in melee range. If you don't understand why this is a problem, go make a mag necro on PTS and try to reproduce that parse from 20m range.
There is plenty of real world data out there on esologs.
https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/12#metric=dps&aggregate=amount&dataset=99
https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/12#metric=dps&aggregate=amount&dataset=95
Yes, a magicka necro on top of a dummy/in melee range with major vulnerability may be able to come close to the parses of other magicka classes. Give major vuln to the rest of your raid and don't cast a blastbones every third gcd because you're not playing in melee range 100% of the time on your magicka character (great class design btw) and you're going to end up behind. Then don't cast siphon because it doesn't even hit the *** bosses and you're going to be even further behind.
It's pretty *** bad.
Nonsense.
First, you can't reliably reproduce most of those parses from 20m for a variety of reasons. All of the magicka parses are in melee range using Rearming Trap and Zaan.
Second, the melee range requirement is not exclusive to magnecros. Stamnecros suffer from the same thing in bow/bow setups. MagDKs are of course a melee build. Magblades have to be in melee range for Soul Harvest.
Third, you actually can stay in melee range in the majority of the content in the game. vAS is the only real exception outside of some other individual fights or mechanics. There's no reason you can't stay in melee range on a magnecro the majority of the time in vSS, vMoL, vHoF, vAA, vHRC, vSO, and most of vCR.
And Syphon doesn't work in vSS on stamnecros, either. It gets slotted for the 3% damage done bonus and the execute crit bonus but it's useless other than that in boss fights. And this is far from the only thing broken in vSS boss fights that really skews the numbers in there ... Alkosh, Zaan, pet targeting, Grothdarr ... a bunch of stuff doesn't work right on the dumb dragon hitboxes. Watch a bunch of Skeletal Archers or a Twilight or a Greater Storm Atro stacked *right on top of a dragon* turn around and start focusing Flame Atros or Storm Atros that are 10m away.
And also ... you're linking vSS HM data that literally includes 14 magnecro parses as if that says anything useful. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that no one is logging them in Sunspire HM ... because the people clearing Sunspire HM are top groups gravitating towards optimal group comps. You could use that same data to demonstrate that stamwardens are near the bottom of the the stam tier list and no one uses them, but that's obviously ridiculous. Everyone who cares enough to optimize is pushing stamnecro groups in that raid because Pestilent Colossus is ridiculously OP and stamnecros are generally overtuned.
And also, it's worth noting that the range limitation on Blastbones isn't really inherently part of the "class design" and I don't think it's a poor reflection of such. The skill worked fine from range in v5.0.0; the delay on its leap was introduced in v5.0.2 because of PvP whining.
man i don't even know where to start with this. which hardmode trials have you cleared on your mag necro?
What's that got to do with it? I literally have done nothing but vSS HM 5+ nights a week on a stamnecro this patch; all of the groups I run with have been running all-stam vSS comps, aside from some magplars/magsorcs while people were getting their stamnecros ready to raid.
Which HM Trials have you failed to clear because you were on a magnecro?
This is the way raiding works. If one build does a bit more DPS than others or provides some marginal utility increase, all groups are going to gravitate towards using that build. That's how we got an 8 petsorc DD meta long ago around Homestead, or an 8 magblade meta in mini trials for ages, or an 8 stamDK meta in Morrowind, or an 8 stamblade meta in Summerset, and now an 8 stamnecro meta in Elsweyr. That's just how it goes. Unless DPS is balanced across all builds within the margin for error (which we all know isn't really possible), eventually the top groups are going to min-max to a monoclass DPS group comp, offload the other class-specific stuff to their support (hello NB main tanks, hello sorc healers) and everyone else who "seriously" raids is going to end up following suit. It has always been like that and it will always be like that.1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Magwarden and magcro seem to me more like unfinished specs rather than underperforming. Both are lacking something and numerical buffs wouldn't solve the problem.
Execute abilities. The same for MagDK. It makes a huge difference to have or not have execute abilities in your toolkit.
Duo inferno petsorc is currently the most popular magsorc spec. They do not use Mage's Wrath (they don't even slot it) and their dps is still solid. Maybe not as high as magplar or magblade, but still a looooot higher than magDK, magwarden and magcro. The problem with these three is more than just lack of execute ability.
True, but an execute class ability would definitely help close the gap. Where would templar be without radiant destruction? I shutter to think.
0 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Note, I don't get into the parsing and dummies but i did notice on my magcro that many of my shots don't land or if i don't actually have the target in my crosshairs my spells won't even fire. My main is a magsorc and I don't have that problem at all. Can you tell how many shots are actually missing?1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭.Hallothiel wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »I love these threads. Doing stupidly high dps but apparently not enough!
considering the fact that macro is, on average, doing way less than all other DD classes atm, there needs to be a change.
I meant in the sense that when I started playing back in the day, no-one was anywhere near these kind of figures for any dps - but now it’s ‘not good enough’.
Introduce a hard cap at 40k DPS. Problem solved. And maybe people would start caring about actual tactics rather than forced mechanics ; how to survive when you have no healer ; actual, proper tanking rarther than calling a buff monkey a tank, and whatnot.
You do know the average dps required to complete the final boss HM in Sunspire is higher than 40k right? As in its over 11 million health that needs to be downed in 90 seconds.
11 million health in 90 seconds is only ~122k per second, with 8 dps, each one would only need to be doing ~15k DPS. something is wrong with what you are saying.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on June 21, 2019 7:54PM1 -
the_Beard✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »11 million health in 90 seconds is only ~122k per second, with 8 dps, each one would only need to be doing ~15k DPS. something is wrong with what you are saying.
They are referring to the downstairs mechanic on the final boss, in which only 3 people can take portals to go down. This must also be done avoiding the mechanics and staying alive.theBeard - PC NA cp1200+- Scores: vCR 127,735 | vHoF 213,293 | vAS 113,203 | vMoL 160,447 | vSO 177,706 (WR) | vHRC 154,658 | vAA 147,466 | vDSA 46k
- Gryphon Heart / Immortal Redeemer / Tick-Tock Tormentor / Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
- Flawless Conqueror x11 - All Classes Mag & Stam
- 32k+ Achievement Points (global)
- Former Emperor / Grand Master Crafter / Master Angler
- AR Palatine Rank 35
0 -
Fata1moose✭✭✭✭✭Magicka is the main archetype for a Necromancer and that version of the class is the worst. This should not be the case.1
