Wings nerf is a game breaker!

jdmoonan · June 2019

I want to bring to the attention of the devs the fallacy of the wings change(NERF). This change was a horrible one. I don't think that it is understood how important the reflect on wings was for mag dk.

First point:
-Magicka DK is a slow turtle like class with hardly any mobility except from chains and leap. Any other mobility that we would use would come via vampire, a couple different sets, or the psijic skill line.
-Vampire is a horrible line in pvp in my opinion due to the strength of Dawnbreaker and now multen whip, not to mention horrible health recovery. The sub par extra sustain and horrible skill line just isn't worth the damage you take.
-Using a 5 piece set solely for mobility on a magicka class will make you lack in other areas so poorly that it just isn't viable.
-The psijic skill line is a pretty good line compared to many other guild or world skill lines, race against time is a great skill all in all, but using this skill means I will have to use volatile armor and makes the use of Mighty chudan unrealistic with some builds. This can cause problems when trying to get access to the Burning Heart passive which is arguably one of the best passives in the game. Trying to gain access to that passive with the use of other skills in the Dragon tree can be difficult to put it lightly. Wings and Volatile are the 2 most relative ways to gain access to this passive other than coagulating blood, but ideally you already want the passive active when hitting coag, or you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Second point:
-Wings wasn't just a reflect but also a way to save crucial stam in pvp as a mag dk. Wings had a second more important thing to do than just reflect ranged abilities back at the caster, and that was to keep a class with no way to avoid incoming damage from getting cc'd over and over again from range. For a class with no purify, streak, cloak, or other forms of damage avoiding, and mobility skills, not getting cc'd from range even for 1 to 2 abilities made all the difference. 1 ranged knock back, knock down, or stun when stuck in a pitched battle with nothing to do but hold your ground, is the end of that battle, especially with how high damage is now.
-I don't think that ranged cc stun and knock back abilities were taken into effect when looking at this change. I understand that reflect made some ranged abilities obsolete in mainly 1v1s, and it was really only magicka nightblade. This is due to the fact that every ability a MNB uses is a ranged projectile. Now as for sorcs complaining, only 1 ability in their kit was effected by reflect and that was crystal frag. Force pulse was made un-reflect able years ago, curse was made an unblock able source of direct damage also years ago, and lets not forget the most over powered execute in the game. We will leave the issues of the sorc execute for a later time on a different post.
(Unblock able direct damage is ridiculous in its own right, because the way you counter direct damage is by blocking it. That is why dots are even a thing, because dots are how you counter block.)
-Oh destructive reach, how abused you are. Let me just say this when you removed the most reliable reflect from the game, you just opened the gate for some of the most cc abusive game play I have ever seen. I know that most people wouldn't think that one skill on only one class had the ability to keep most ranged cc's from being abused, but it did. I would say the majority of the ranged player base didn't use draining shot or destructive reach near as much as it is being used now, because it could just as easily get them killed as the person they hit with it, if they targeted the wrong person.

3rd point:
-There were better ways to fix the wing issue, you could have used any of the following and it would have been better for both sides, make light attacks un-reflect able, and/or make class spam ables' un-relectable. Another possible change is adding RANGED hard cc immunity to both morphs of wings for 6 seconds or 4 different ranged hard cc abilities.
-Ranged cc spam is completely out of control with little to no counter play to it at least for mag dk. Personally I dont think there should be any ranged hard cc's in the game, not to mention a ranged hard cc that becomes a hard hitting spam able when you equip a master staff. This wouldn't be such an issue if block didn't get nerfed into the ground, which hit mag dk harder than anything else, due to block being the best way to mitigate damage on a dk due to our class passives.
-Being in light armor and getting range cc spammed is almost game breaking and sometimes it is game breaking if you're not in a group especially considering how solo magicka DK in heavy armor is non existent if you want to kill anything on the battlefield.

My Conclusion:
The wings change was game breaking. 50% multiplicative ranged projectile damage reduction is a massive joke. With wings up, cap resits, and 2500 crit resist and still get slammed by 7k frags and 12k killers blades just goes to show there is an issue with the damage reduction. What makes this game changing is you are getting hard cc spammed from 30 to 40 meters out taking this kind of damage. Wings were so crucial to the kit of a mag dk because we are penguin knights and have to waddle across the battlefield to get anywhere. With the nerf to wings you took away my ability to essentially dodge an incoming ranged hard cc that was going to get me killed. Without being able to dodge roll a lot, purify, streak, or cloak incoming ranged hard cc's you have essentially made me a sitting duck if I am out numbered and being spammed. We need this fixed, either give us back our reflect, or at the very least immunity to ranged hard cc for the duration. As for balance changes please don't ever make balance changes based off of 1v1 counters. It is very simple if wings counter your class don't fight them. I main mag dk, so I don't just go try to fight every Templar or purge spamming healer I see. I play a dot class and that would just be asking for a bad time. You removing my reflect is the same as me asking you to remove the purify from templar. It would break the class and multiple builds. minor adjustments are fine but completely gutting a classes only ability to get out of a sticky situation just makes it miserable to play solo or even out numbered for that matter!

I hope you will listen to the points I have made and really make up for this hit to mag dk.

Thanks

-JDMOONAN the Fire Mage aka JD the MOON-MAN

DTStormfox · June 2019

I totally agree with the points you make.

I want to point out that magicka warden and stamina warden still have access to Crystallized Slab and Shimmering Shield. The former is (nearly) exactly the same as wings was before the nerf. It absorbs ALL the damage (up to 3 projectiles) and shoots back an icy bolt to the attacker. If DK wings were considered OP, then why is this ability (especially the Crystallized Slab morph) not considered OP?

Edit:
Not complaining that it is 'unfair', but it is at least inconsistent.

ChunkyCat · June 2019

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

jaws343 · June 2019

With the Wings change, you can get away with running straight damage and sustain sets now. 50% reduction is powerful, more powerful than a reflect that falls off repeatedly and requires constant casting in 1vx situations. Also, drop vampire and just run Bright Throat and harness magicka. The sustain you get from those two things is more than enough. And vampire just isn't necessary, and is really a hindrance with the amount of fire damage DKs can output now.

Asgari · June 2019

I don’t mind the new wings, the dmg reduction is up for 6 seconds, don’t have to spam wings to keep projectiles off of me.

I use race against time for mobility and live longer than most stam players. I’d say the biggest issue these days is latency and skills not firing off.

mDK is in a very solid spot. An update to dk ults would be nice though.

BNOC · June 2019

Wings were so crucial to the kit of a mag dk

Nope.

We need this fixed, either give us back our reflect, or at the very least immunity to ranged hard cc for the duration.

Lol; Let me reflect all ranged damage, or be immune to CC's (Likely the only cc my opponent has) so I can get close where I R strong. Nope.

It is very simple if wings counter your class don't fight them.

Lol. Nope.

I main mag dk, so I don't just go try to fight every Templar or purge spamming healer I see. I play a dot class and that would just be asking for a bad time.

I main a Templar, the dot build Mag Dk's are by far the hardest class to fight because purge doesn't have any order to it, your dots are reapplied so fast (and cleanse isn't cheap) and you have an unblockable melee range CC. You're not a good DK, I already know that.
Get to the top of the class and then come have your say on what it needs or doesn't - Don't just be average looking for assistance.

Know what Templars who are in the same position (Slow without a reflect since our SINGLE TARGET, one was taken away years ago) do? Mist form, LOS, Speed pots, invis pots, Immovable pots, speed on jewellery, channelled accel, forward momentum and so on.
Purge doesn't cleanse incoming projectiles anymore and costs more than most spells cost to reapply, especially when half effects are from enchants and so on for 0 cost.

Darkenarlol · June 2019

l2p issue?

it definitely looks like one

MaxJrFTW · June 2019

BNOC wrote: »

I main a Templar, the dot build Mag Dk's are by far the hardest class to fight because purge doesn't have any order to it, your dots are reapplied so fast (and cleanse isn't cheap) and you have an unblockable melee range CC. You're not a good DK, I already know that.

I don't know where people get the idea that templars are a counter to magdks. Magdks and magsorcs are the toughest fights for a magplar, at least in my experience.

WoppaBoem · June 2019

Well written. Almost want my wings back. But I am happy with the change. I first started with PVP on a magblade and then the wings dk meta started and I switched because I simply could not touch them everything shot back into my face.

I love magdk since that switch and now for it offensive skills much fun. However it always felt wrong to trow everything back at the caster with the press of 1 button. I don't like cheese and its good it left the game.

If you want anything done to the skill create and idea that requires active play from the magdk not only pressing 1 button and provides counter play to the caster. As the current skill is also boring press 1 button 50% less damage. So I don't mind a change but reflect gone is a good thing.

darkblue5 · June 2019

Ah it has come time for the jdmoonan post declaring magdks dead overly nerfed. This one doesn't include the usual vehemence, but it still marks the turning of the seasons

.

Disclaimer: jdmoonan always makes good points even if I don't agree with him. Having to build more for stamina in exchange for wings that can't be "played around" by exploiting a bug when you recast them while they reduce all incoming ranged damage by 50% seems reasonable IMO with the other buffs given to the class. Building for block to save damage and to avoid CCs seems like the best build plan given the supposed changes to block mitigation but how to accomplish that best is beyond me.

kpittsniperb14_ESO · June 2019

jdmoonan wrote: »

I want to bring to the attention of the devs the fallacy of the wings change(NERF). This change was a horrible one. I don't think that it is understood how important the reflect on wings was for mag dk.

First point:
-Magicka DK is a slow turtle like class with hardly any mobility except from chains and leap. Any other mobility that we would use would come via vampire, a couple different sets, or the psijic skill line.
-Vampire is a horrible line in pvp in my opinion due to the strength of Dawnbreaker and now multen whip, not to mention horrible health recovery. The sub par extra sustain and horrible skill line just isn't worth the damage you take.
-Using a 5 piece set solely for mobility on a magicka class will make you lack in other areas so poorly that it just isn't viable.
-The psijic skill line is a pretty good line compared to many other guild or world skill lines, race against time is a great skill all in all, but using this skill means I will have to use volatile armor and makes the use of Mighty chudan unrealistic with some builds. This can cause problems when trying to get access to the Burning Heart passive which is arguably one of the best passives in the game. Trying to gain access to that passive with the use of other skills in the Dragon tree can be difficult to put it lightly. Wings and Volatile are the 2 most relative ways to gain access to this passive other than coagulating blood, but ideally you already want the passive active when hitting coag, or you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Second point:
-Wings wasn't just a reflect but also a way to save crucial stam in pvp as a mag dk. Wings had a second more important thing to do than just reflect ranged abilities back at the caster, and that was to keep a class with no way to avoid incoming damage from getting cc'd over and over again from range. For a class with no purify, streak, cloak, or other forms of damage avoiding, and mobility skills, not getting cc'd from range even for 1 to 2 abilities made all the difference. 1 ranged knock back, knock down, or stun when stuck in a pitched battle with nothing to do but hold your ground, is the end of that battle, especially with how high damage is now.
-I don't think that ranged cc stun and knock back abilities were taken into effect when looking at this change. I understand that reflect made some ranged abilities obsolete in mainly 1v1s, and it was really only magicka nightblade. This is due to the fact that every ability a MNB uses is a ranged projectile. Now as for sorcs complaining, only 1 ability in their kit was effected by reflect and that was crystal frag. Force pulse was made un-reflect able years ago, curse was made an unblock able source of direct damage also years ago, and lets not forget the most over powered execute in the game. We will leave the issues of the sorc execute for a later time on a different post.
(Unblock able direct damage is ridiculous in its own right, because the way you counter direct damage is by blocking it. That is why dots are even a thing, because dots are how you counter block.)
-Oh destructive reach, how abused you are. Let me just say this when you removed the most reliable reflect from the game, you just opened the gate for some of the most cc abusive game play I have ever seen. I know that most people wouldn't think that one skill on only one class had the ability to keep most ranged cc's from being abused, but it did. I would say the majority of the ranged player base didn't use draining shot or destructive reach near as much as it is being used now, because it could just as easily get them killed as the person they hit with it, if they targeted the wrong person.

3rd point:
-There were better ways to fix the wing issue, you could have used any of the following and it would have been better for both sides, make light attacks un-reflect able, and/or make class spam ables' un-relectable. Another possible change is adding RANGED hard cc immunity to both morphs of wings for 6 seconds or 4 different ranged hard cc abilities.
-Ranged cc spam is completely out of control with little to no counter play to it at least for mag dk. Personally I dont think there should be any ranged hard cc's in the game, not to mention a ranged hard cc that becomes a hard hitting spam able when you equip a master staff. This wouldn't be such an issue if block didn't get nerfed into the ground, which hit mag dk harder than anything else, due to block being the best way to mitigate damage on a dk due to our class passives.
-Being in light armor and getting range cc spammed is almost game breaking and sometimes it is game breaking if you're not in a group especially considering how solo magicka DK in heavy armor is non existent if you want to kill anything on the battlefield.

My Conclusion:
The wings change was game breaking. 50% multiplicative ranged projectile damage reduction is a massive joke. With wings up, cap resits, and 2500 crit resist and still get slammed by 7k frags and 12k killers blades just goes to show there is an issue with the damage reduction. What makes this game changing is you are getting hard cc spammed from 30 to 40 meters out taking this kind of damage. Wings were so crucial to the kit of a mag dk because we are penguin knights and have to waddle across the battlefield to get anywhere. With the nerf to wings you took away my ability to essentially dodge an incoming ranged hard cc that was going to get me killed. Without being able to dodge roll a lot, purify, streak, or cloak incoming ranged hard cc's you have essentially made me a sitting duck if I am out numbered and being spammed. We need this fixed, either give us back our reflect, or at the very least immunity to ranged hard cc for the duration. As for balance changes please don't ever make balance changes based off of 1v1 counters. It is very simple if wings counter your class don't fight them. I main mag dk, so I don't just go try to fight every Templar or purge spamming healer I see. I play a dot class and that would just be asking for a bad time. You removing my reflect is the same as me asking you to remove the purify from templar. It would break the class and multiple builds. minor adjustments are fine but completely gutting a classes only ability to get out of a sticky situation just makes it miserable to play solo or even out numbered for that matter!

I hope you will listen to the points I have made and really make up for this hit to mag dk.

Thanks

-JDMOONAN the Fire Mage aka JD the MOON-MAN

This is nice and all but you forgot to take into account that playing a double bow spec build is tough and stuff and I can't really be bothered with things like situational awareness and using all of the counter play mechanics they already put into the game that bypass reflect. Making me have to think about what I'm doing and applying consequences if I don't ruins my immersion as I'm zerging you down. Uh, no thank you.

Stebarnz · June 2019

Condense the entire post to - 'someone stole my crutch and replaced it with one I don't know how to use.'

Kadoin · June 2019

Ah, still glad I've never slotted wings on my mag DK.

xeNNNNN · June 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

Huuuuge difference between overland and BG.

BG has limited players in any one fight and thus the amount you can get CC's thrown at you from range is incredibly small by comparison to cyrodil.

Alls the wings nerf did was ensure Sorc and bow user dominance. (magblades arent counted here as they are in a terrible position unless they build tank but even then its "meh").

MagDKs can no longer close the gap in a reasonable fashion... sorcs can just streak away and then turn frag, reach etc etc then streak again and the mag dk still wont have caught up and even if you leaped them the sorc streak basically nullifies the gap closing ultimate.

Stamblades running around with the bow stun as well or any bow user for that matter essentially out class DKs by default now purely because there is litterally no defense against it anymore. Some mitigation sure. But it means nothing when the stuns are so frequent and powerful that they can out right kill you.

The only alternative is for people to run absorb magicka but that is reflecting only one projectile and its a stam cast. Meaning only StamDKs can use it and even then inefficiently.

cheifsoap · June 2019

It's amazing how useless this skill is now. It has no purpose on my bar anymore. Shame too, it was a great skill

Varana · June 2019

And again, some PvP nonsense f@!?ed over PvE tanks hard.
That is the real shame.

WoppaBoem · June 2019

Varana wrote: »

And again, some PvP nonsense f@!?ed over PvE tanks hard.
That is the real shame.

You wouldn't want to be a caster against the wings. Really this is not nonsense. If you don't like this game have both PVE and PVP and devs manage both. Play a different game.

WoppaBoem · June 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

Huuuuge difference between overland and BG.

BG has limited players in any one fight and thus the amount you can get CC's thrown at you from range is incredibly small by comparison to cyrodil.

Alls the wings nerf did was ensure Sorc and bow user dominance. (magblades arent counted here as they are in a terrible position unless they build tank but even then its "meh").

MagDKs can no longer close the gap in a reasonable fashion... sorcs can just streak away and then turn frag, reach etc etc then streak again and the mag dk still wont have caught up and even if you leaped them the sorc streak basically nullifies the gap closing ultimate.

Stamblades running around with the bow stun as well or any bow user for that matter essentially out class DKs by default now purely because there is litterally no defense against it anymore. Some mitigation sure. But it means nothing when the stuns are so frequent and powerful that they can out right kill you.

The only alternative is for people to run absorb magicka but that is reflecting only one projectile and its a stam cast. Meaning only StamDKs can use it and even then inefficiently.

You do know there is more possible than reflect and absord yes? If you so want a gap closer use chains. Still open world, a good roll dodge major expidition and I am right on the enemy giving them hell.

And yes magsorc streaking every class has no real match for that nothing to with magdk

jircris11 · June 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

Remember if ppl have to think about how to play it tends to end badly. Most of my guild is mad about the race changes because of a min/max mindset.

Anyron · June 2019

So your problem is with ranged hard CC skills. (i know this is overused but i dont know how to say it differently - L2p?)

Every magicka build had to deal with ranged CCs, thats why stamina dominates some pvp (noCP) w here you can, as mag, use only one roll and one CC break until you have ZERO stamina.

Now magDK has to deal with it as any other magbuild in this game. Hard CC reflect was stupid thing and they did right to remove it.

xeNNNNN · June 2019

WoppaBoem wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

Huuuuge difference between overland and BG.

BG has limited players in any one fight and thus the amount you can get CC's thrown at you from range is incredibly small by comparison to cyrodil.

Alls the wings nerf did was ensure Sorc and bow user dominance. (magblades arent counted here as they are in a terrible position unless they build tank but even then its "meh").

MagDKs can no longer close the gap in a reasonable fashion... sorcs can just streak away and then turn frag, reach etc etc then streak again and the mag dk still wont have caught up and even if you leaped them the sorc streak basically nullifies the gap closing ultimate.

Stamblades running around with the bow stun as well or any bow user for that matter essentially out class DKs by default now purely because there is litterally no defense against it anymore. Some mitigation sure. But it means nothing when the stuns are so frequent and powerful that they can out right kill you.

The only alternative is for people to run absorb magicka but that is reflecting only one projectile and its a stam cast. Meaning only StamDKs can use it and even then inefficiently.

You do know there is more possible than reflect and absord yes? If you so want a gap closer use chains. Still open world, a good roll dodge major expidition and I am right on the enemy giving them hell.

And yes magsorc streaking every class has no real match for that nothing to with magdk

thats not the point. Mag Dks only true ranged defense was pre-nerf wings. Thats it. It has nothing else, the damage mitigation is astonishingly bad in nearly all pvp scenarios right now, the reason I brought up sorcs streak was because its created a scenario where even if you're using Immo pots they can just streak, reach, streak, reach with almost no counterplay. Even if I were to use chains then what? they just stun me up close and nuke because there is virtually nothing aside from shield ult and the former mentioned that can actually stop it anymore and in overland with the amount of projectiles being fired at you it just makes it unbearable.

Yeah sure I could use chains but thats buggy at the best of times hell sometimes it doesnt even go off properly and doesnt even pull because of the lag. Even if I chain a sorc they will just streak away either way. Its not even worth trying to fight them anymore because you cannot push them. They can run around you in circles now because you have 0 defense against ranged stuns. At least stamdk can wear medium as bad as it is and roll dodge everywhere.

jaws343 · June 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

My MagDk is a vampire. I do pretty well in BGs.

If I can do it, then I guess you need to gain knowledge on how to properly employ your character.

Huuuuge difference between overland and BG.

BG has limited players in any one fight and thus the amount you can get CC's thrown at you from range is incredibly small by comparison to cyrodil.

Alls the wings nerf did was ensure Sorc and bow user dominance. (magblades arent counted here as they are in a terrible position unless they build tank but even then its "meh").

MagDKs can no longer close the gap in a reasonable fashion... sorcs can just streak away and then turn frag, reach etc etc then streak again and the mag dk still wont have caught up and even if you leaped them the sorc streak basically nullifies the gap closing ultimate.

Stamblades running around with the bow stun as well or any bow user for that matter essentially out class DKs by default now purely because there is litterally no defense against it anymore. Some mitigation sure. But it means nothing when the stuns are so frequent and powerful that they can out right kill you.

The only alternative is for people to run absorb magicka but that is reflecting only one projectile and its a stam cast. Meaning only StamDKs can use it and even then inefficiently.

You do know there is more possible than reflect and absord yes? If you so want a gap closer use chains. Still open world, a good roll dodge major expidition and I am right on the enemy giving them hell.

And yes magsorc streaking every class has no real match for that nothing to with magdk

thats not the point. Mag Dks only true ranged defense was pre-nerf wings. Thats it. It has nothing else, the damage mitigation is astonishingly bad in nearly all pvp scenarios right now, the reason I brought up sorcs streak was because its created a scenario where even if you're using Immo pots they can just streak, reach, streak, reach with almost no counterplay. Even if I were to use chains then what? they just stun me up close and nuke because there is virtually nothing aside from shield ult and the former mentioned that can actually stop it anymore and in overland with the amount of projectiles being fired at you it just makes it unbearable.

Yeah sure I could use chains but thats buggy at the best of times hell sometimes it doesnt even go off properly and doesnt even pull because of the lag. Even if I chain a sorc they will just streak away either way. Its not even worth trying to fight them anymore because you cannot push them. They can run around you in circles now because you have 0 defense against ranged stuns. At least stamdk can wear medium as bad as it is and roll dodge everywhere.

Magdks can slot harness, like every other mag class is often forced to do in light armor.

Varana · June 2019

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

And again, some PvP nonsense f@!?ed over PvE tanks hard.
That is the real shame.

You wouldn't want to be a caster against the wings. Really this is not nonsense. If you don't like this game have both PVE and PVP and devs manage both. Play a different game.

Well, why would I? I don't care whether some people in PvP have problems with the skill. If you do, you can play a different game.

Aedaryl · June 2019

This is funny how people think that 50% damage mitigation on almost every ranged attack is "bad".

50% is huge.

And a DK blocking reduce projectile near 90%.

Wings took a 1vX buff by allowing the dk to mitigate an infinite number of projectile whitout needing to refresh i every single second when facing 2 ranged players.

All the story about CC is hilarious. "People spam CC" CC immunity is 6s, and every half decent player will CC you on cooldown, from range or from melee. You should be happy to take ranged CC, at least you can see it and react.

I prefer a counterable slow stun with visual telegraph and travel time than eating invisible cut anim reverb/fear.

jdmoonan · June 2019

Anyron wrote: »

So your problem is with ranged hard CC skills. (i know this is overused but i dont know how to say it differently - L2p?)

Every magicka build had to deal with ranged CCs, thats why stamina dominates some pvp (noCP) w here you can, as mag, use only one roll and one CC break until you have ZERO stamina.

Now magDK has to deal with it as any other magbuild in this game. Hard CC reflect was stupid thing and they did right to remove it.

Ok I'm not sure if you are over looking the fact that all other classes have a way out of a overwhelming situation via some sort of class purge, streak or stealth ability, stamina strait up has dodge roll and sprint. Mag dk has always had wings and then vampire when that dropped, but the issue always was you couldn't have both mist form and wings on your bar, either one or the other, or you just wouldn't have enough damage and survive ability.

So when you make a comment like this:
"Every magicka build had to deal with ranged CCs, thats why stamina dominates some pvp (noCP) w here you can, as mag, use only one roll and one CC break until you have ZERO stamina. Now magDK has to deal with it as any other magbuild in this game. Hard CC reflect was stupid thing and they did right to remove it"

IT makes me think that you have no idea how class identity works in this game. Stamina doesn't rule pvp based off of dodge roll and cc break that is a very singular way of looking at things.

-First off stam's sustain is effected greatly in not only their damage dealing but also healing sustain when they are cc spammed, that is why unchained is a thing in cp to help deal with that issue.

-Second stam has a more superiority in pvp because a multitude of other things, like being able to wear heavy armor and deal damage passively through bleeds which ignores physical resists. Or a multitude of damage sets that put magicka damage sets to shame. Like fury, seventh legion, and Veiled to name a few. Magicka heavy armor sets are strait cheeks compared to stamina heavy armor sets.

-Third stamina has Dawnbreaker, which is arguably the strongest ultimate in the game.

-Finally projectile reflect has been a thing since launch, and dk being the least mobile class in the game needed it as a way to deal with out numbered situations in cyrodill. Quite frankly there are many other ways to kill a dk than spamming frag or destructive reach. Not only that the cost of wings is as much as a shield and was treated as such. Not only that but I have fought many people that could count to 4 before throwing a frag at me or a assassins will, and quite frankly anyone that needs to spam a cc like that to kill someone is just flat out bad at the game and is part of the problem with the balance of this game.

Wings have been nerfed so hard prior to this nerf and you are still calling for more, and you say I need to learn to play, LOL! Wings reflected all projectiles for the duration and was nerfed to up to 4 projectiles in a 6 second duration and would need to be recasted, but yet 2 to 3 shields can still be cast on a player at a time, giving the player a massive health bar with no counter play but to simply wait for the shields to come down, much like wings was.

What I find funniest is the person calling for a wings nerf is the same person that doesn't have an issue with purify spam against dot builds, mine camping against melee, stealth spam, shimmering shield spam, and shield stack spam. All of these things are counters and create class diversity

All I saw with this change was a bunch of projectile spamming, skirt wearing, entitled new players that want to free cast snipe and ranged skills with absolutely no draw back to firing them. Nothing More!

Sanguinor2 · June 2019

Hardly a gamebreaker for me, dfs is actually decent with the Damage return, not reflecting the ccs anymore kinda sucks but as altmer magdk between racial passive, earthern heart and battle roar you dont really get stam Problems unless forced to dodge excessively.
I really like it for PvE tanking too, dont have to block the zmaja heavy attack anymore and it probably works on a lot more ranged attacks from bosses compared to previous wings.

frostz417 · June 2019

Sounds like you’re just salty your crutch is now nerfed. Must’ve been nice reflecting and shutting down all range playstyles.
I don’t want to hear it about your class being slow. Go tell that to Magplars and mag necro’s.

Aznarb · June 2019

Some people really are crying about DK ?
This class is so stupidly strong right now and yet some guy still complain, lol.

Lord_Eomer · June 2019

Everything for OP is a game breaker, he do not like balance but want his favourite class to remain OP.

Tired of such threads!

JumpmanLane · June 2019

I unno I’ll take 91% damage mitigation on all projectiles on my MagDk. SnB WINGS Frost Staff THIS patch. Speed Immovables Stam. Mop fools.

Gariele · June 2019

Darkenarlol wrote: »

l2p issue?

it definitely looks like one

OoF