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Would you like a unified auction house instead of the current trading system?
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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(4 years Later)
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.Edited by Jeremy on June 18, 2019 9:42PM6 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
and this is showing why this still didnt change to global AH
when some many people outshout loudly NO! then rest of people arguing with quiet yes are not heared because they are outshouted by simple NO! without even need for arguments2 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.Goregrinder wrote: »So OP.....the votes are in....read them and weep if you must. Are you about ready to close the thread now? Or are you going to keep making these posts until everyone votes for the answer you want?
I don't know of a function to close the thread but it's still very early in the voting process compared to the threads age.
If you run a search you can find the results to all the other polls if you cant wait....
Luckily its on the 'technically complex' list of not going to happen, even if it was wantedXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No.Goregrinder wrote: »The majority still votes no...59% as of 6-18-2019.
which majority? of gam players or forum warriors?
I dont think only 300 players are playing this game
Then why have polls on the forums at all?0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.Goregrinder wrote: »The majority still votes no...59% as of 6-18-2019.
which majority? of gam players or forum warriors?
I dont think only 300 players are playing this game
Then why have polls on the forums at all?
good question
for more important things like this for both sides...they could do something which I have seen in some games
pool within game, what is problem with it? it would be in annoucments like crown store offers etc or something so people actually playing game could vote for many more important changes1 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No.Goregrinder wrote: »The majority still votes no...59% as of 6-18-2019.
which majority? of gam players or forum warriors?
I dont think only 300 players are playing this game
Then why have polls on the forums at all?
good question
for more important things like this for both sides...they could do something which I have seen in some games
This questions actually doesn't matter.
The guild traders are hard coded into the engine. It would take years of intensive work, rewriting the engine and all the spaghetti code it effects to even try and implement a auction house. Assuming they even got it working right at that point, is that the best use of developers labor?
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some points:
While I prefer a GAH, I'm really quite aware this isn't likely to happen. Reasons: first, the trading guilds would leave en masse since they would no longer have the stranglehold enabled by the devs; second, as @BigBragg states, hardcoded == not easily changed; third, we who play forum roulette are a vanishingly small percentage of the game's players.
So, yeah. Ain't hap'nin.1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.Goregrinder wrote: »The majority still votes no...59% as of 6-18-2019.
which majority? of gam players or forum warriors?
I dont think only 300 players are playing this game
Then why have polls on the forums at all?
good question
for more important things like this for both sides...they could do something which I have seen in some games
This questions actually doesn't matter.
The guild traders are hard coded into the engine. It would take years of intensive work, rewriting the engine and all the spaghetti code it effects to even try and implement a auction house. Assuming they even got it working right at that point, is that the best use of developers labor?
welp about votes...I mean in overall about something more important, significant in this game if they would gonna do....but if it would be vote like for this AH then it would be probably poll out of curiosity what players think atleast on start1 -
GarnetFire17✭✭✭✭No.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
and this is showing why this still didnt change to global AH
when some many people outshout loudly NO! then rest of people arguing with quiet yes are not heared because they are outshouted by simple NO! without even need for arguments
It's the other way around. It's the ones who want a GAH trying to spread fake news that ESO community wants it. Which is why they keep posting new threads of the same rhetorical question. It's not a legit poll at this point. It's just propaganda. All the time people I see examples of people saying they love their trade guild and that aspect of the game economy they can't get in other games. But while some people actually enjoy shopping around a little bit, some that people are too lazy for that or too lazy to actually get the thing they want so badly the conventional way, they would rather waste their time on the forums complaining about something that is going no-where.
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GarnetFire17✭✭✭✭No.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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(4 years Later)
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.
Great so, the complaining about the lack of GAH is just backfiring at best. The game economy has in no way been made more like a global auction house. Addons and small ui improvmenets have come around to help people find stuff easier in the stores that is about it. Adding more features to the ui for guild traders just helps guilds get involved more in setting up shop. It's doesn't show anything to point of why Global Auction House is Necessary. It's just shows the Guild Trader System getting better and stronger.Edited by GarnetFire17 on June 19, 2019 1:58AM1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.It's also even more misleading to say that implementing a GAH is the same as removing trials. It would be the same as creating a group finder for trials. Both systems would lead to more people participating in those activities.
Maybe this is where the disconnect occurs. Maybe this is why some people can't see any value in the current system.
The sale itself is not the entirety of the activity.
Visiting a kiosk is an entertaining activity an in of it self for me. I tend not to use TTC now, because in the past when I tried it, I found that it was often out of date. The item either wasn't there or, if it was, had been relisted at a higher price. Now, I just maintain a short (no more than 5 items) list of things that I am generally on the look out for.
Because of this, opening up the inventory of a kiosk that I haven't been to in a while is an actively anticipatory experience. I don't know what I will find. If I had to liken it to anything, then that would probably be the way loot-boxes operate for other people (which is why I don't do them myself). That anticipation, and the travel time during which I feel it, is part of the experience.
Another part of the experience is working as part of a guild to secure a trader. I've been in quite a few good trading guilds over the years. At the moment I am only in 1 because my play-time is such* that I only have enough stuff to need one guild. I'm not going to embarrass our GM by tagging them, but they do an awesome job. They foster working as a team to ensure that we have a well-placed trader each week. That collaborative, emergent, activity is also part of the experience.
By introducing a GAH instead of guild-kiosks these aspects of play disappear. Gone. And there are others (non-trading community building, trading training,etc.).
You might say that it is misleading to say that it is the same as removing trials. I disagree. But even at my most generous I would say that if it isn't like removing the whole trial... then it is definitely like gutting it to remove everything but the final boss.
If the only thing about trading that is important is the sale, then the only thing about trials that is important is the final boss. Right? After all, that is the final activity in both cases, isn't it?
[* You can blame a combination of my two year old son and work for this]0 -
Comixfan✭✭✭Yes.Yes, absolutely we need a global auction house.
So sick of having to trawl around the guild vendors just to find the items I want.
And then finding that the next vendor had the item(s) cheaper than what I just paid for them!
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Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.FOR ***'s SAKENOTTHISAGAIN?
I have yet to read any valid, justification for an auction house other than "It's too hard to teleport around and check prices"
No-one really cares and why should they?
Unless you're flipping, virtually everything that you sell didn't cost you anything in the first place.
Just go away with these endless, stupid, WOW *** concepts
(edit: my view is that the people promoting this are trying to increase the sales amount for whatever it is that they sell. Thsi colours my argument)Edited by Androconium on June 19, 2019 4:02AM0 -
Apox✭✭✭✭✭Yes.I'm yes and no on it. I like a single AH due to the ease it would provide, but I like the flavor added by having to shop at different "stores". That feeling of hunting down a specific object and finally finding it is pretty great.
nobody does this dude. its why tamriel trade centre exists. solely to un-f**k the awful trader system zos refuses to get rid of5 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.But even at my most generous I would say that if it isn't like removing the whole trial... then it is definitely like gutting it to remove everything but the final boss.
If the only thing about trading that is important is the sale, then the only thing about trials that is important is the final boss. Right? After all, that is the final activity in both cases, isn't it?
You mean like CR and AS?
The raiding community is still alive and kicking. Good job pwning yourself.
And no, it's not like that. The activity is buying and selling. All the other aspects that you described are not part of it but things you constructed around it socially. All of what you describe happens in the raiding community too, on top of the core aspect of raiding: defeating enemies. Also, unlike in the case of trading, it's not just the GMs and officers who get to enjoy the social aspects of it, but every guild member.
So really, with your analogies it just shows that you've never really played the game properly. Trading is tedious, both in life and in game, that's why we have invented online stores (like amazon) and AHs (like ebay) and there are services like pcpartpicker.com, google flights and trivago that take the information from multiple stores and show the one where the items/services are priced best.
GAH > current system, because it reduces transaction costs, and that's ultimately what all participants want in a market, both sellers and buyers. The only people who oppose market efficiency IRL are monopolies, oligopolies and tyrants, because they stand to lose when the market becomes efficient enough that small competitors would be able to afford the entry cost. Unsurprising therefore that we see the same thing in game.2 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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(4 years Later)
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
and this is showing why this still didnt change to global AH
when some many people outshout loudly NO! then rest of people arguing with quiet yes are not heared because they are outshouted by simple NO! without even need for arguments
We've had the arguments. We've had the discussions. The facts have been presented. The pros and cons have been weighed. The devs have spoken. The community has voted. Repeatedly.
None of it came out in your favor, yet you still persist in beating that mound of rotten flesh that used to be a horse on a daily basis. People are sick to death of it. That's why you're getting a lot of "NO!" responses now. Nothing new is ever presented. No suggestions on improving the current system. Just the constant whining that you want Wal-Mart to move into Tamriel and put everyone else out of business. Why? Because of some tinfoil hat level conspiracy theory that all the traders are controlled by a mega-cartel of guild leaders who meet in a secret star chamber each week to dictate what people are going to be allowed to sell dreugh wax for. Or because you're so antisocial that you can't even join a trading guild and use it as nothing more than your store front. Or because you think you're being cheated if you don't get to buy something at the lowest price in the entire world. Or because you're just too damn lazy to go to more than one location to buy something."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."5 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.Let's deal with the actual points of your post, shall we? Rather than the attempts to delegitimize the people who disagree with you by suggesting that they haven't been "playing the game properly" or that they are "monopolies, oligopolies and tyrants". Its an interesting rhetorical approach, but it tends to resolve very little in terms of the actual argument.You mean like CR and AS?
Are CR and AS the only trials? No, there are 8 in the game at the moment.
So even if we accept your argument that CR and AS are just like reducing an entire system to its barest components, they represent a minority of the trials available.
How about this then, on the day that you successfully campaign to get all trials removed from the game except from CR and AS and prove that raiding guild survive this process... then I will throw all of my weight behind your efforts to get the guild kiosks turned into a global auction house. Deal?And no, it's not like that. The activity is buying and selling. All the other aspects that you described are not part of it but things you constructed around it socially.
They are part of being in a trading guild in the current system. That is what being debated. The current system in its entirety. You are arguing for that system to be reduced to the base action of buying and selling. I am trying to tell you that there is more to it. You are throwing those other parts out because they don't fit with your own, purely transactional, view. You want to argue against it? Fine, then argue against all of it. Not just the bits that are convenient.Also, unlike in the case of trading, it's not just the GMs and officers who get to enjoy the social aspects of it, but every guild member.
I am in a trading guild. I am not a GM. I am not an officer. I am a normal guild member who does enjoy all of the social aspects. Do I think that I am in so privileged a position as to be the only normal guild member who also enjoys the social aspects? Of course not. This statement, as it is, cannot stand without further evidence.Trading is tedious, both in life and in game, that's why we have invented online stores (like amazon) and AHs (like ebay) and there are services like pcpartpicker.com, google flights and trivago that take the information from multiple stores and show the one where the items/services are priced best.
What has been happening to stores in the high-street since the introduction of amazon, ebay and the rest?
You might be happy to see these places close. I am not. Based on the results and posts we have seen in this thread, and others on the subject, it would seem that I am not alone in this view.GAH > current system, because it reduces transaction costs, and that's ultimately what all participants want in a market, both sellers and buyers.
You don't speak for everybody. What "all participants want in a market" isn't for you, personally, to decide. I am careful to only refer only to my personal experience or the things I have seen in threads on this topic. I have told you that I want more from a market than what you have described, yet you are telling me that I am wrong.
Are you honestly arguing that I shouldn't be enjoying the things about the current system that I do enjoy?
[EDIT: Spelling changed from "therms" to "terms" in the first paragraph]Edited by Iluvrien on June 19, 2019 5:06AM1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.These threads are dull. All the arguments for and against have been said 100's of times before.
Folks wanting an AH don't use the current system efficiently, it comes down to effort / laze.
People moan about daily trawls to buy basics which just shows how they haven't adapted.
All the stuff you need regularly you can batch craft. Of you join 2-3 decent trading guilds you can access them all from your bank in one location. The only time i need to do a trader hop is A For a rare / precise item and B if i want to scan out their traders for a deal, which is my main reason for not wanting an AH in the past as i used to put his effort in to make a few bucks. Effort = reward.
What the Pro AH crew don't realise is for many trading is an interesting part of the game, that others don't want ruined. If everything that took effort was removed how dull would the game be? Some like trials, i don't, should i get all the skins free because i don't like the effort to play trials? No.
But this is pointless talking about, it won't happen and Pro AH crew won't listen.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Gariele✭✭✭✭✭No.Instead of an auction house a global MM built into the game would be so much more beneficial. It would be a great way for the newer players to actually get the worth of the item even if its just an average. Could easily find and terminate bots.PC/EUWinter Rose Autumn Rose Summer Rose Pacific Rose Midnight RoseRoseESO DiscordRoseESO Website0
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.
There have been no changes to the trading system from OP's like this one. The statement you quoted is absolutely correct that threads like this have accomplished nothing at all as we are as close to having a God awful and antiquated GAH today as we were 4 years ago.
Yes, the guild trader system has gone through some changes as any good system would evolve. However, it has come from threads (and the guild leaders) suggesting things that make sense. Nothing like beating a dead horse in a wasteful manner as this thread.
Further, I understand wanting to say it is probable the game will get a GAH but there is really no basis for that. I would really suggest you do not hold your breath for that day as it may be very unhealthy.0 -
aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭No.
I agree with the part that it is misleading to compare switching Guild traders to GAH is same as removing trials. I disagree with "is the same as creating a group finder for trials". Since switching from guild traders to GAH, you essentially reduce the complexity to gain easy and simple trade system. It would be same as removing mechanics from trial bosses to gain easier and more simple trials.It's also even more misleading to say that implementing a GAH is the same as removing trials. It would be the same as creating a group finder for trials. Both systems would lead to more people participating in those activities.
The whole point of having a trading system in a game is for convenience. If you make the system as inconvenient as it is now, you are (at least partially) defeating it's purpose.
I disagree, the point of having a trade system is to have a way for players to trade. The point of GAH is to have a simple, easy and convenient trade system. The guild traders are by design more complex, which does not mean it is defeating the purpose. We do not have access to their game design document, so we do not know exactly the intended purpose. I suspect the purpose of Guild Traders is to have a trading system, which encourages players to socialise via guilds and explore via visiting different traders.
IMO The WTB/WTS/WTT in chat is the normal version of trading and the guild traders are the veteran version. In normal version, you do not get to see all the mechanics and you get worse rewards, in vet version you get harder mechanics, but get better rewards.
I do enjoy the current trading system and I do not use TTC. (my only trading addon is Master Merchant, to help me find the price for the item. I do not use the average price tho) I like to hunt for bargains by hopping from city to city looking for the best deal I can find. I like to plan my sales by looking what my guilds sells and for what price. (the items and the prices vary from trader to trader) For me, GAH would be boring because it would be too easy, only way to make it intresting would be by trying to corner the market and take part in the trading wars. (there's even written guides about this, for example: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=143089 , we are in luck now, because you can't really apply the said guide on guild traders)0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Same with Warden...
Same with Necromancer...
Same with Jewelry Crafting...
Same with Housing...
Same with Housing storage...
Same with Outfit system...
Same with Transmutation system...
Same with Alliance locked campaigns...
Eventually we will have something similar. ZOS wont miss any oportunity to add futher grinding & gold sink. Also ZOS is not fool so I doubt they will do something drastic that could dmg in game economy. If something, they will try to make some alternative for WTS / WTB zone chat spam system. Maybe somehow conect it with housing so you can set-up shops in your house ? Idk tbh. But seeing how almost every giant thread - idea got into the game so far, at this point I am sure ZOS at some point will introduce a solution that will satisfy both "sides".Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on June 19, 2019 6:17AM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
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Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.
There have been no changes to the trading system from OP's like this one. The statement you quoted is absolutely correct that threads like this have accomplished nothing at all as we are as close to having a God awful and antiquated GAH today as we were 4 years ago.
Yes, the guild trader system has gone through some changes as any good system would evolve. However, it has come from threads (and the guild leaders) suggesting things that make sense. Nothing like beating a dead horse in a wasteful manner as this thread.
Further, I understand wanting to say it is probable the game will get a GAH but there is really no basis for that. I would really suggest you do not hold your breath for that day as it may be very unhealthy.
It was threads criticizing the guild trader system and asking for a global market/auction house that was responsible for some of the changes we take for granted today. For example: players being able to purchase from other guilds. I remember people complaining about not being able to buy from other guilds and how they wish they would just add an auction house and these same people telling these players to stop beating a dead horse and stop asking for an auction house - because the guild trader system was fine as is.
Does anyone really want to go back to the days where you had to belong to a guild to actually purchase goods from it? Not likely. Though that's where we would still be if we had listened to these players who say to stop beating a dead horse. And I suspect if they were to finally just include a standard auction house (like they should) you would have much the same result: and no one would be longing for the old days when you had to endlessly way point around to different places to pick up items and join some massive guild full of strangers just to sell your stuff.
As far as you suggesting there is no basis for me to believe it's probable for a global auction house - that's an odd position considering ZoS seems to have no problems with players using addons that basically turn the guild trader system into a global auction house anyway. So it's basically already in the game. You just have to download addons for it. So it's already here - at least in all the ways it matters as it relates to the effects it would have on the game's economy - which is supposedly the reason one was not included to begin with. The only change I can see adding one would have is players would no longer have to join trading guilds to their sell items. And I doubt anyone would miss that either, considering trading guilds are nothing more than a nuisance on this game anyway...unless someone is running one of course and getting rich off "dues".Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 7:15AM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
.
.
.
.
.
(4 years Later)
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.
There have been no changes to the trading system from OP's like this one. The statement you quoted is absolutely correct that threads like this have accomplished nothing at all as we are as close to having a God awful and antiquated GAH today as we were 4 years ago.
Yes, the guild trader system has gone through some changes as any good system would evolve. However, it has come from threads (and the guild leaders) suggesting things that make sense. Nothing like beating a dead horse in a wasteful manner as this thread.
Further, I understand wanting to say it is probable the game will get a GAH but there is really no basis for that. I would really suggest you do not hold your breath for that day as it may be very unhealthy.
False.
It was threads criticizing the guild trader system and asking for a global market that was responsible for some of the changes we take for granted today. For example: players being able to purchase from other guilds. I remember people complaining about not being able to buy from other guilds and how they wish they would just add an auction house and these same people telling players to stop beating a dead horse and stop asking for an auction house - because the guild trader system was fine as is.
Your memory is not very good. We were able to purchase form other guilds the first day this game launched over 5 years ago. Though the initial implementation of those guild traders was to limited. Zos did greatly improve on this and the change that came were and are a good thing. BTW, to refresh your memory just go into Cyrodiil. You will notice the keeps are claimed by guilds and you can access what ever their store is.
BTW, those changes were hardly a step towards a GAH and certainly did not come from the same type of thread as this one so your claim my comment was false is rather, well, false. Interesting how the facts got in the way of that.
I edited out the rest because it is irrelevant. To refresh your memory again, this thread was created concerning a GAH. Not about how the guild trader system was 5 years ago. It really seems that part I edited out was meant as a distraction to derail the thread.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.GarnetFire17 wrote: »This is this topic.....
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
.
.
.
.
.
(4 years Later)
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Want a Global Auction House? NO!
Again with this fallacy that 4 years of complaining on the forum has accomplished nothing.
This game's guild trader system has undergone huge improvements over the years (all of these changes bringing it closer to a global auction house I should add). And it's the posters who were complaining about the broken system who were responsible for this. If we had listened to the "kicking a dead horse" crowd we'd still be stuck with the original guild trader system - which was so God awful it was nearly useless. And the kicking the dead horse crowd were winning the forum polls back then too.
This game willl probably eventually get around to having a proper global auction house. We'll just get there in baby steps. We're basically already there now if you include addons.
There have been no changes to the trading system from OP's like this one. The statement you quoted is absolutely correct that threads like this have accomplished nothing at all as we are as close to having a God awful and antiquated GAH today as we were 4 years ago.
Yes, the guild trader system has gone through some changes as any good system would evolve. However, it has come from threads (and the guild leaders) suggesting things that make sense. Nothing like beating a dead horse in a wasteful manner as this thread.
Further, I understand wanting to say it is probable the game will get a GAH but there is really no basis for that. I would really suggest you do not hold your breath for that day as it may be very unhealthy.
False.
It was threads criticizing the guild trader system and asking for a global market that was responsible for some of the changes we take for granted today. For example: players being able to purchase from other guilds. I remember people complaining about not being able to buy from other guilds and how they wish they would just add an auction house and these same people telling players to stop beating a dead horse and stop asking for an auction house - because the guild trader system was fine as is.
Your memory is not very good. We were able to purchase form other guilds the first day this game launched over 5 years ago. Though the initial implementation of those guild traders was to limited. Zos did greatly improve on this and the change that came were and are a good thing. BTW, to refresh your memory just go into Cyrodiil. You will notice the keeps are claimed by guilds and you can access what ever their store is.
BTW, those changes were hardly a step towards a GAH and certainly did not come from the same type of thread as this one so your claim my comment was false is rather, well, false. Interesting how the facts got in the way of that.
I edited out the rest because it is irrelevant. To refresh your memory again, this thread was created concerning a GAH. Not about how the guild trader system was 5 years ago. It really seems that part I edited out was meant as a distraction to derail the thread.
I've been playing this game since beta - and when I first started playing this game you had to belong to a guild before you were allowed to purchase items and it caused quite an uproar on the forums with players asking for an auction house (I know because I was one of them). And the very same, exact rebuttals were made then that are being made now - that ZoS said no auction houses were going to be implemented - and that we should all basically just shut up and accept the current system and stop asking for it to change because the system was fine as is.
Also: anything that allows players more access to the market is a step toward a more global market/action house - of which that change certainly was. And the addons I highlighted - which allows players to share a common price history and view global prices is definitely a step toward an global auction house. So we simply don't agree. We've been on a slow march toward an auction house ever since they first introduced their ridiculous guild traders.
Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 7:52AM3 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes.Androconium wrote: »FOR ***'s SAKENOTTHISAGAIN?
I have yet to read any valid, justification for an auction house other than "It's too hard to teleport around and check prices"
No-one really cares and why should they?
Unless you're flipping, virtually everything that you sell didn't cost you anything in the first place.
Just go away with these endless, stupid, WOW *** concepts
(edit: my view is that the people promoting this are trying to increase the sales amount for whatever it is that they sell. Thsi colours my argument)
Okay. Let's compare.
Accessing :
GAH – from the mmos I have played that used one, you click on a link and pull up the GAH immediately, wherever you are.
Trader – this is the only mmo I have played that uses one. To sell you have to physically go to a banker – and not the portable bank you can buy.
Selling :
GAH – Without any requirements, the player can open the GAH to the listings for your item and can see what the item is currently selling for by Everyone in the game who chose to sell that item. You can then immediately list your item at an appropriate price.
Trader – You must First join a Trading Guild, with any financial obligations that may go with it. Then you can go to the bank, access the Guild Store and list your item. You can also see what other members of your guild are selling the item for, but not what players in other Guilds are selling the item for. On PC you can use an addon to assist in deciding how much to sell for. Consoles do not have this option.
Reaching Buyers :
GAH – once listed, the item is available and can be seen via the GAH immediately by Every player in the game. All players who have an interest in purchasing the item will be able to find it easily.
Trader – The Only players who will actually see the item for sale are those who happen to physically go your specific trader. Since there is no master list that can direct a player to Traders that have the item you are looking for, its simply trial and error. For the individual seller, their item is Not getting out to all the players in the game. It is not even going to be looked at by all the people that are seeking the item. The player can not put their item out to the public. They must rely on the public coming to their single spot on the map.
Finding an item :
GAH – You pull up the GAH, input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item by every player who is selling that item in the game, if any, and usually the lowest cost is listed first. If there are none available, you will not find the item. If there are items available you can immediately purchase the item, and it will show up in your in-game mail.
Trader – Once you arrive at a Trader, you input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item, if any, by that specific Guild. If the item is listed, you have to decide how much running around this item is worth, and either buy it then or move on to a different trader hoping their price will be lower.
Additional issues :
GAH – There are none. The GAH functions like a machine, very simple to use, very easy to understand.
Trader – Traders are not stable. The trading sites are bid on weekly. Guilds that lose out on their bid have no trader for that week. Therefore, if the player has something they want to list, the Only players who will see the listing that week are Guild members. The opportunity for sales is greatly diminished.
For those who wanted a comparison, there is your comparison.
11 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.barney2525 wrote: »Androconium wrote: »FOR ***'s SAKENOTTHISAGAIN?
I have yet to read any valid, justification for an auction house other than "It's too hard to teleport around and check prices"
No-one really cares and why should they?
Unless you're flipping, virtually everything that you sell didn't cost you anything in the first place.
Just go away with these endless, stupid, WOW *** concepts
(edit: my view is that the people promoting this are trying to increase the sales amount for whatever it is that they sell. Thsi colours my argument)
Okay. Let's compare.
Accessing :
GAH – from the mmos I have played that used one, you click on a link and pull up the GAH immediately, wherever you are.
Trader – this is the only mmo I have played that uses one. To sell you have to physically go to a banker – and not the portable bank you can buy.
Selling :
GAH – Without any requirements, the player can open the GAH to the listings for your item and can see what the item is currently selling for by Everyone in the game who chose to sell that item. You can then immediately list your item at an appropriate price.
Trader – You must First join a Trading Guild, with any financial obligations that may go with it. Then you can go to the bank, access the Guild Store and list your item. You can also see what other members of your guild are selling the item for, but not what players in other Guilds are selling the item for. On PC you can use an addon to assist in deciding how much to sell for. Consoles do not have this option.
Reaching Buyers :
GAH – once listed, the item is available and can be seen via the GAH immediately by Every player in the game. All players who have an interest in purchasing the item will be able to find it easily.
Trader – The Only players who will actually see the item for sale are those who happen to physically go your specific trader. Since there is no master list that can direct a player to Traders that have the item you are looking for, its simply trial and error. For the individual seller, their item is Not getting out to all the players in the game. It is not even going to be looked at by all the people that are seeking the item. The player can not put their item out to the public. They must rely on the public coming to their single spot on the map.
Finding an item :
GAH – You pull up the GAH, input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item by every player who is selling that item in the game, if any, and usually the lowest cost is listed first. If there are none available, you will not find the item. If there are items available you can immediately purchase the item, and it will show up in your in-game mail.
Trader – Once you arrive at a Trader, you input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item, if any, by that specific Guild. If the item is listed, you have to decide how much running around this item is worth, and either buy it then or move on to a different trader hoping their price will be lower.
Additional issues :
GAH – There are none. The GAH functions like a machine, very simple to use, very easy to understand.
Trader – Traders are not stable. The trading sites are bid on weekly. Guilds that lose out on their bid have no trader for that week. Therefore, if the player has something they want to list, the Only players who will see the listing that week are Guild members. The opportunity for sales is greatly diminished.
For those who wanted a comparison, there is your comparison.
This is the only one for a reason, because it's just an inferior system.
Other games have tried similar things. Final Fantasy 14 for example tried to have an non-auction house economy that relied on player bazaars organized into a market place. It didn't work either.
If it's mass undercutting on the market itself that worries these developers so much all they would have to do is implement price controls. Black Desert does that.
5 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.barney2525 wrote: »Androconium wrote: »FOR ***'s SAKENOTTHISAGAIN?
I have yet to read any valid, justification for an auction house other than "It's too hard to teleport around and check prices"
No-one really cares and why should they?
Unless you're flipping, virtually everything that you sell didn't cost you anything in the first place.
Just go away with these endless, stupid, WOW *** concepts
(edit: my view is that the people promoting this are trying to increase the sales amount for whatever it is that they sell. Thsi colours my argument)
Okay. Let's compare.
Accessing :
GAH – from the mmos I have played that used one, you click on a link and pull up the GAH immediately, wherever you are.
Trader – this is the only mmo I have played that uses one. To sell you have to physically go to a banker – and not the portable bank you can buy.
Selling :
GAH – Without any requirements, the player can open the GAH to the listings for your item and can see what the item is currently selling for by Everyone in the game who chose to sell that item. You can then immediately list your item at an appropriate price.
Trader – You must First join a Trading Guild, with any financial obligations that may go with it. Then you can go to the bank, access the Guild Store and list your item. You can also see what other members of your guild are selling the item for, but not what players in other Guilds are selling the item for. On PC you can use an addon to assist in deciding how much to sell for. Consoles do not have this option.
Reaching Buyers :
GAH – once listed, the item is available and can be seen via the GAH immediately by Every player in the game. All players who have an interest in purchasing the item will be able to find it easily.
Trader – The Only players who will actually see the item for sale are those who happen to physically go your specific trader. Since there is no master list that can direct a player to Traders that have the item you are looking for, its simply trial and error. For the individual seller, their item is Not getting out to all the players in the game. It is not even going to be looked at by all the people that are seeking the item. The player can not put their item out to the public. They must rely on the public coming to their single spot on the map.
Finding an item :
GAH – You pull up the GAH, input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item by every player who is selling that item in the game, if any, and usually the lowest cost is listed first. If there are none available, you will not find the item. If there are items available you can immediately purchase the item, and it will show up in your in-game mail.
Trader – Once you arrive at a Trader, you input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item, if any, by that specific Guild. If the item is listed, you have to decide how much running around this item is worth, and either buy it then or move on to a different trader hoping their price will be lower.
Additional issues :
GAH – There are none. The GAH functions like a machine, very simple to use, very easy to understand.
Trader – Traders are not stable. The trading sites are bid on weekly. Guilds that lose out on their bid have no trader for that week. Therefore, if the player has something they want to list, the Only players who will see the listing that week are Guild members. The opportunity for sales is greatly diminished.
For those who wanted a comparison, there is your comparison.
This is the only one for a reason, because it's just an inferior system.
Other games have tried similar things. Final Fantasy 14 for example tried to have an non-auction house economy that relied on player bazaars organized into a market place. It didn't work either.
If it's mass undercutting on the market itself that worries these developers so much all they would have to do is implement price controls. Black Desert does that.
Guild traders were an attempt at flavour that went horribly wrong. It's not about the economy. I don't believe ZOS even have an economist working on the game economy (see Jewellery Crafting master writs). At this time it's simply what they went with 5 years ago, it's too much work to change it, and any attempt at changing it won't pay for itself.5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.barney2525 wrote: »Androconium wrote: »FOR ***'s SAKENOTTHISAGAIN?
I have yet to read any valid, justification for an auction house other than "It's too hard to teleport around and check prices"
No-one really cares and why should they?
Unless you're flipping, virtually everything that you sell didn't cost you anything in the first place.
Just go away with these endless, stupid, WOW *** concepts
(edit: my view is that the people promoting this are trying to increase the sales amount for whatever it is that they sell. Thsi colours my argument)
Okay. Let's compare.
Accessing :
GAH – from the mmos I have played that used one, you click on a link and pull up the GAH immediately, wherever you are.
Trader – this is the only mmo I have played that uses one. To sell you have to physically go to a banker – and not the portable bank you can buy.
Selling :
GAH – Without any requirements, the player can open the GAH to the listings for your item and can see what the item is currently selling for by Everyone in the game who chose to sell that item. You can then immediately list your item at an appropriate price.
Trader – You must First join a Trading Guild, with any financial obligations that may go with it. Then you can go to the bank, access the Guild Store and list your item. You can also see what other members of your guild are selling the item for, but not what players in other Guilds are selling the item for. On PC you can use an addon to assist in deciding how much to sell for. Consoles do not have this option.
Reaching Buyers :
GAH – once listed, the item is available and can be seen via the GAH immediately by Every player in the game. All players who have an interest in purchasing the item will be able to find it easily.
Trader – The Only players who will actually see the item for sale are those who happen to physically go your specific trader. Since there is no master list that can direct a player to Traders that have the item you are looking for, its simply trial and error. For the individual seller, their item is Not getting out to all the players in the game. It is not even going to be looked at by all the people that are seeking the item. The player can not put their item out to the public. They must rely on the public coming to their single spot on the map.
Finding an item :
GAH – You pull up the GAH, input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item by every player who is selling that item in the game, if any, and usually the lowest cost is listed first. If there are none available, you will not find the item. If there are items available you can immediately purchase the item, and it will show up in your in-game mail.
Trader – Once you arrive at a Trader, you input the correct category and locate all the listings of the item, if any, by that specific Guild. If the item is listed, you have to decide how much running around this item is worth, and either buy it then or move on to a different trader hoping their price will be lower.
Additional issues :
GAH – There are none. The GAH functions like a machine, very simple to use, very easy to understand.
Trader – Traders are not stable. The trading sites are bid on weekly. Guilds that lose out on their bid have no trader for that week. Therefore, if the player has something they want to list, the Only players who will see the listing that week are Guild members. The opportunity for sales is greatly diminished.
For those who wanted a comparison, there is your comparison.
This is the only one for a reason, because it's just an inferior system.
Other games have tried similar things. Final Fantasy 14 for example tried to have an non-auction house economy that relied on player bazaars organized into a market place. It didn't work either.
If it's mass undercutting on the market itself that worries these developers so much all they would have to do is implement price controls. Black Desert does that.
Guild traders were an attempt at flavour that went horribly wrong. It's not about the economy. I don't believe ZOS even have an economist working on the game economy (see Jewellery Crafting master writs). At this time it's simply what they went with 5 years ago, it's too much work to change it, and any attempt at changing it won't pay for itself.
Yeah I tend to agree with most of that. They were attempting something different and it just didn't work out. I don't fault them for trying something new. But their economic arguments against adding an auction house made no sense and has been proven wrong by nearly every other game out there.
Where we slightly disagree is that you believe it would be too much work to change. At this point addons have already done most of their work for them. They could simply incorporate these popular addons into the base game so everyone was playing on the same level and add an indicator that let the viewer know if the item was still available at the guild trader in question. That would essentially be the same as a global auction house - just with the added caveat that you had to belong to a guild to actually sell your items on the market (which they could easily remedy also if they wanted to).Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 8:14AM4
