The update on the API was a repeat. Can we have an ETA? Here's the impact.

siddique · June 2019

PC plebs.

therift · June 2019

@Hexquisite

"One only has to do a search to see that Console trading guilds have huge integrity problems"

Please post your search results that support this accusation. No, really... post your evidence. Not opinion. Evidence. Let's see it.

"...and also charge people flat fees to be in them regardless of sales."

Please post your methodology for calculating guild member aggregate sales using console data. Not your conjecture. Your step-by-step method. Let's see it.

reoskit · June 2019

Posting to get back on topic:

Please restore API access to the guild history. Or, please provide a timeline when we can expect its return.

Goregrinder · June 2019

"I turned off my crown store purchases..." uh.....ok, well my crown store purchases have been enabled indefinitely. I press the "ON" button in the UI, and now I just keep buying *** from the crown store.

RANKK7 · June 2019

@ZOS I just received 18 mails in game of sold items and I don't have the faintest idea in which of my guilds I sold each item and at what price, since you are not even providing in game mails retaining such info and with MM not working there is no way to keep track, not to mention gathering some statistics about my sales or sales of certain items.

This is not fun. One week ago I would have considered a situation like this: ridiculous, now I consider it a nightmare. You really would accomplish to destroy the game not re-enabling the functionality.

In the meantime we wait for some info, any progress, an ETA (which is what this thread is about), it would be wonderful if a moderator could clean up because the thread is getting polluted by comments clearly unrelated to the need to get some info concerning this issue (which is what this thread is about, repetita iuvant).

Ardan147 · June 2019

Knowledge wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Isn't there another thread exactly like this? At any rate, as I've said before, the console players don't have this functionality and millions of people on Xbox and Playstation go without it. I do understand it's not fun for you right now but also keep in mind that the world isn't ending. I am sure ZeniMax is working to resolve the issue. But for the time being perhaps consider consulting the console players for information. Perhaps they can explain a way to run trading guilds without the API.

Just some serious words about it: I dont like the comparrisons between console and pc. Next to what others said, the pc community grew another way of managing the guilds than console i highly dislike, that you're not having access to guild managing tools like seeing the sales data of your guild as gm as example at least. For simple reasons:

A trade guild is supposed to trade. Its getting income by taxes. This is the core design of the trade system. Sure there is also donation available, but its hard to keep track of it as well next to the intransparancy of that donation system. A gm can tell his people always he needs to bid quadrillion of gold and that he needs 25 of 50k in donations. is it true? and who can see, wether the spot is really worth the gold, wether there isnt another hub with better access?

After all, we are running trading guilds, not donating guilds. I find nothing more wrong than expecting my people to put gold into my guild bank to be allowed to trade in my guild - while beeing not able to provide my people numbers, that the spot is worth beeing in the guild, while not beeing able to provide at least some base comparrison numbers. as someone else already mentioned, the pc guilds mainly grew a trade OR donate system (most do not care too much, but i also tend to pay donations back if i recognize someone paying all the time while not making use of trading and send him to a more casual friendly guild then), not a donate to trade system. If the last happened on a long term, i will sign out of this system and i will sign my guilds out of it as well, because i do not want them to bend to that broken changes, especially since i find such system shamefull - and i dont want such kind of shame on my name or the name of my guilds. sounds melodamatic, maybe - but to me, its just plain wrong. i dont want people to pay my guilds bids, i want them to trade and get gold by successfully trading and to be happy happy happy with their gold.

What you're failing to consider here is that unlike consoles the addons hurt the small guy by increasing the bidding competition among guilds. It also increased individual profits forcing guilds on the PC to take in donations in order to deal with the ever increasing competition.

The trade guild battle has now required addons to compete in due to the extremely high volume of sales garnered from addons and websites. The flow of gold on PC is much higher than console.

This game was meant to be playable without addons.

Whether something was meant to be a certain way and whether it actually is that way are two very different things. But ZOS most certainly did intend for players to be able to use addons to customize their experience, and provided a rich API in order to do so. It was even one of the selling points for the PC version.

Of course, with addons it is a lot quicker and easier to fix a perceived shortcoming of the UI rather than to wait around for ZOS to fix it, if they even get around to it at all.

As for whether they help or hurt "the little guy", it is not that difficult at all to get into a big trading guild. From there, the trading addons help the aspiring trader in determining prices for items, determining what's worth trying to sell at all, and also what items they see in guild stores that they might be able to flip for a profit. (And if there was a global auction house or anything like that, the set of people doing the flipping would be very, very tiny, and pretty much everyone else would be locked out of it).

StabbityDoom · June 2019

This is not a repeat thread. We got our “update” in the patch notes which was devoid of new details. The op I made in this thread was to specifically list voices from the community and how they are affected by this.i encourage more of that.

Knowledge · June 2019

therift wrote: »

@Knowledge

Straw Man Fallacy does not require presenting a distorted view, nor is it based upon restating the original argument in a different or distorted way. It is a logical fallacy because it does not depend upon deductive reasoning. You are operating from a limited understanding of the logic chain. With respect, I suggest beginning with the definition of 'Logical Fallacy' not from an online dictionary, but from an indepth source from the field of Logic.

I have a feeling that this is a situation where you are trying to make something out of nothing.

Once again. There is a problem two people agree exists.

All I have done is suggest an interim solution to the problem.

If someone then says "that's a straw man" it really isn't valid. Providing solutions to problems is basic problem solving and critical thinking. Stifling critical thinking or suggestion by saying that I am making straw man arguments is illogical.

StabbityDoom · June 2019

No matter how much people try to turn every thread into console wars and add on wars, please don’t respond to baiting posts. I would love it if you would help with this and let’s keep the message clear and unified (as much as it can be).

girlpoison · June 2019

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

Knowledge · June 2019

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

StabbityDoom · June 2019

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I don't think that is actually on purpose. There's something about some people this morning getting a few sales after the servers came up. Maybe you got some?

reoskit · June 2019

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I keep hearing murmurs like this, @girlpoison. Like data is slipping through the cracks. Very odd. By and large, though, it seems to be inaccessible.

Chrysoprase · June 2019

I want to say that as a member of one of these guilds, while I don't really personally need trading addons, they're a big part of people's playing experience and enjoyment of the game. There are a lot of people in this thread mocking others for not enjoying the game the same way they do and that's sad. The fact is that removing the API for addons makes the game worse for many people, and better for NO ONE. It causes people to leave and that is a bad thing.

I part of the same guild as the OP of this thread and people are genuinely checking out of the game because of this, and these are long-time and loyal players who have spent a lot of time playing and wish to continue to do so. These players don't spent all day trading and scamming people, they play all aspects of the game and enjoy helping new players. Bashing them probably does make you feel like a big man/woman on the internet, but it doesn't make the game or the community better.

girlpoison · June 2019

Knowledge wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

My concern still rests with reducing the 10 day history to 5 days. Even if they give back API access the weekly sales/purchases quota will be completely skewed when we're missing 2 days worth of transactions from our members' totals.

reoskit · June 2019

girlpoison wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

My concern still rests with reducing the 10 day history to 5 days. Even if they give back API access the weekly sales/purchases quota will be completely skewed when we're missing 2 days worth of transactions from our members' totals.

My eyes at home (bless our officers) say they can see the history further than 5 days. They changed the range to 10. Are you only seeing 5?

arena25 · June 2019

If it's any consolation, folks, TTC is still 100% usable (as it doesn't require guild history functionality at all), and it appears that there is a limited amount of MM-readable data that you can sync with the MM addon if you'd like (though again, that data is limited and I'm not sure from when in the past week that data was acquired from. Still, a little bit is better than none at all, in my book).

StabbityDoom · June 2019

reoskit wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

My concern still rests with reducing the 10 day history to 5 days. Even if they give back API access the weekly sales/purchases quota will be completely skewed when we're missing 2 days worth of transactions from our members' totals.

My eyes at home (bless our officers) say they can see the history further than 5 days. They changed the range to 10. Are you only seeing 5?

Jhart this morning could only get to five, but there are a couple of other people who somehow got it to 7(they think).

reoskit · June 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

My concern still rests with reducing the 10 day history to 5 days. Even if they give back API access the weekly sales/purchases quota will be completely skewed when we're missing 2 days worth of transactions from our members' totals.

My eyes at home (bless our officers) say they can see the history further than 5 days. They changed the range to 10. Are you only seeing 5?

Jhart this morning could only get to five, but there are a couple of other people who somehow got it to 7(they think).

Hmm. I heard 9... still not the 10 stated, but hm. I'll check for myself when I get home.

arena25 wrote: »

If it's any consolation, folks, TTC is still 100% usable (as it doesn't require guild history functionality at all), and it appears that there is a limited amount of MM-readable data that you can sync with the MM addon if you'd like (though again, that data is limited and I'm not sure from when in the past week that data was acquired from. Still, a little bit is better than none at all, in my book).

There is a bit of consolation there, at least for traders getting a general sense of the listed market. Unfortunately, TTC doesn't do anything for those of us who run guilds, and especially not for those of us who run trade guilds.

yodased · June 2019

Here's the real problem.

How many HUGE trading guilds are there? Lets say there are 20.

Lets say that each of those guilds are filled with 500 active 100k per week sellers that all rely on this data to enjoy the game and they literally can't play the game without these addons.

So, remove every single one of those players, for shiggles.

10,000 player hit boom off the board.

The problem with that is 1. No where near 100% of the players will leave and 2. even if they did, that is a mitigatable risk, or at least an acceptable one.

The perception that any of us matter or collectively the entire forum matters is delusional, its great to get together and talk with one another, but really come on, none of us are making a difference in the bottom line here when it comes to systems choices.

The voices on high gave them a problem to solve, this was the solution to that problem. As long as the metrics keep ticking up and the vocal minority isn't effective, its just shouting in the wind. a bit like this post I would assume, but hey at least we are all doing it together!

Donny_Vito · June 2019

Watching the Tamriel PC world almost fall apart over some add-ons is almost amusing, then I remember we all play the same game and I somewhat feel bad.

But seriously, just relax people.

This is totally a L2P issue.

Knowledge · June 2019

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Watching the Tamriel PC world almost fall apart over some add-ons is almost amusing, then I remember we all play the same game and I somewhat feel bad.

But seriously, just relax people.

This is totally a L2P issue.

I think it's far from falling apart. As another poster said this is definitely the minority of players.

jircris11 · June 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

The "we're still working on it" from today's patch notes gave no ETA nor any acknowledgement of the direness of the situation. I am again asking, can we have an update, not just a repetition of what was previously said?

I've gone to the trouble of collecting some quotes from people in our community that demonstrates what's been said. I'm not including names. I have also left out any of the quitting/will quit stuff, because that could be interpreted as a goodbye thread - and I don't want to violate any rules. The purpose of me doing this is to give you information you can bring to the higher ups to show them just how important this is to a huge portion of the community. If anyone wishes to add to this thread with their own feelings, please do.

Please take this issue very, very seriously and solve it ASAP.

This is the impact in the community, the things people are saying to each other.

Here is just a sampling of what I’m seeing/hearing. These are all different people. ALL of this is because of the API/ MM issue:

"This guild - trading guild - pretty much is what keeps my hiatuses from being more than a few months."

"I have been playing FFXIV for the time being."

"Not going to lie, that will render this game unplayable for me. I was just like... "well, there goes my ability to enjoyably play the game" with the first post"

"With all the problems zos isn't fixing, and now guild history gone, it's getting not fun anymore."

"And 'for now' I turned off my crown store purchases:) New furniture pack+ Iron training dummy + new hairless kitty:) I bit more than 10k crowns. And add the same pack for my husband + new fluffy banker and merchant:) In total 30 k crowns we won't spend:) ***. Somebody doing a good business here. I'm very grateful for saving me a bit of money, ZOS."

"I don't like giving money to a company that sees me as both a cash cow and a slave."

"The thing I love most about the game is trading - with addons. someone else: Ditto."

"Either way if things don't go back to the way they were, 500 people are probably going to be without a guild soon."

I cannot count how many people are saying "I'm just tired of this game right now."

"I'm not even inclined to really play right now with this mess going on".

"that was the straw to break this camel's back"

"Not having mm working has severely impacted my enjoyment of this game"

--
I have done my best not to violate any forum rules with this post. What I am doing is trying to give @ZOS_GinaBruno and any other community reps the information they can take to the rest of ZOS to know that we need this back asap. Beyond that, it would help if it were communicated to us an ETA and that it is understood and acknowledged how important and crucial this is to many guilds and players.

Thank you for listening and I hope this is taken in the tone it is meant, a serious and desperate plea.

Ppl have grown to reliant on the trade add ona. Frankly I would love to see them go.

GarnetFire17 · June 2019

As long as no new major thing was broken, I'm considering this week's patch a win. ZOS did what they said they were going to do. They'd just better get it fixed by the end of this week.

girlpoison · June 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I don't think that is actually on purpose. There's something about some people this morning getting a few sales after the servers came up. Maybe you got some?

I had no updated sales this morning when I logged in around 10:15 EST. This sale came through sometime after that. I'm guessing API access is being toggled on and off to test their fix progress.

reoskit · June 2019

Thank you all for showing up here to attempt to diminish our concerns. Very constructive. I genuinely hope people treat you with more kindness than you show others.

Please restore the API access to the guild history.

girlpoison · June 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

girlpoison wrote: »

MM is picking up some sales here and there - I have one tracked from a sale 4 hours ago. If I organize sales by this week, the roster is updated. Seems like they're working on the issue but maybe don't have the fix down yet?

I tried to tell everyone that they are definitely working on the issue. It is only a matter of time.

My concern still rests with reducing the 10 day history to 5 days. Even if they give back API access the weekly sales/purchases quota will be completely skewed when we're missing 2 days worth of transactions from our members' totals.

My eyes at home (bless our officers) say they can see the history further than 5 days. They changed the range to 10. Are you only seeing 5?

Jhart this morning could only get to five, but there are a couple of other people who somehow got it to 7(they think).

I'm getting the full 10. Make sure they're press E to "Show More" history, but it does go back the full 10 days.

reoskit wrote: »

Please restore the API access to the guild history.

^

Dont_do_drugs · June 2019

google translated quote from kai schober in german forums for people who wonder how "data slips through"

@DDD: The patch today, a switch has been installed, which allows us to regulate the access on-the-fly. That's exactly what happened immediately after the patch.

the addons also read the current cropped history while beeing logged in, while (maybe) not beeing able to access older history. in short.

Donny_Vito · June 2019

reoskit wrote: »

Thank you all for showing up here to attempt to diminish our concerns. Very constructive. I genuinely hope people treat you with more kindness than you show others.

Please restore the API access to the guild history.

I'm glad we have our priorities straight for what needs to be fixed first.... lets get the add-ons working!

reoskit · June 2019

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

As long as no new major thing was broken, I'm considering this week's patch a win. ZOS did what they said they were going to do. They'd just better get it fixed by the end of this week.

I suppose it's not new, @GarnetFire17, but I'm wary about PCNA primetime tonight. Lately, EU has been a barometer for what NA sees later in the day.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/480503/pc-eu-guild-chat-delays#latest