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A better idea to the Guild Store Vs Gobal Auction house
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me
I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
Yup people are quitting, crying, and throwing fits over the system not working because their addons cant do it for them, Seems to be waaaaay better.
Doubtful anyone is actually quitting the game over it or the guild trader system. If they claim to be they were likely one foot out the door. Just being realistic.
You are evidence of that fact as you still play the game even though you are passionately against the guild trader system.
Cheerio
I don't play it for the trader system
Exactly my point and why your comment people were quitting over it was false. Thanks again for backing up that point.
Cheerio.
Edit: Again, I am not saying no one has blamed the trading system (or even the recent guild history issue) for why they left the game, but that they are full of it if that is the reason they are giving since they have to be one foot out the door already.
You are case in point that people will not quit over the trading system. People play for the game itself and quit because of the game itself. For some, If they are not enjoying the game they will come up with an excuse. It is nothing more than that.Edited by idk on June 17, 2019 3:33PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.1 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭Edited because I don't remember person who made the comment over filter out goodbye threads XDEdited by BrianLovesLisa on June 17, 2019 3:24PM0
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
And they could buy the new postings too. Really not making your point. There are people who play the game as a trading sim. They play to make money. They've been playing since the trading system started. They have the gold to do it.
I'm still waiting for proof the gms are making billions in gold and its all a big conspiracy.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.1 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
And they could buy the new postings too. Really not making your point. There are people who play the game as a trading sim. They play to make money. They've been playing since the trading system started. They have the gold to do it.
I'm still waiting for proof the gms are making billions in gold and its all a big conspiracy.
uh where did I claim they make billions?0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
I'm still not seeing the basis for your statement.
The reason people go to look at an AH or Trader is because they want to purchase Something. That's the bottom line.
The manipulation of prices is completely irrelevant. Both systems can and will be manipulated.
People just want to be able to buy their item. And if they are like me, they might grumble a bit, but they will over-pay IF they can get their item
With the Global AH you have the guarantee that IF someone is selling the item you are looking for, you WILL be able to find it, and then can decide if you want to pay that price. If no one has that item currently for sale, you will know immediately and will continue on playing. Takes just a couple minutes of your time.
With the Trader system we have, the item may be available for purchase, yet the Player has No access to it.
Reason one - The Player does not know which Trader to go to in order to find one that has the item. So now they have to go physically to all the Traders that they know about, hoping to find their item. But when none of the one they Know about has it, it is just a big waste of time.
Reason two - The Trader may have lost out on their bid this week and now the item IS on sale but Only to members of that guild.
People want to sell items. They should be allowed full access to all the players in the game that want to buy. They should Not be restricted to just the characters who physically show up at a specific location. With the current system, the restriction is the case .
People want to purchase items. They should be able to find their item easily IF it is on sale, and purchase it. With the current system, that is Not the case.
I just do not see where this Trader system is "superior" to the Global AH in any way.
Edited by barney2525 on June 17, 2019 3:37PM1 -
SecantSoul ShrivenBrianLovesLisa wrote: »
You can't actually think you'll be able to list items faster than bots can scan the AH and buy them up.
Speed and accuracy are things, shall I remind you, that computers are really, really good at.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 3:36PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
You can't actually think you'll be able to list items faster than bots can scan the AH and buy them up.
Speed and accuracy are things, shall I remind you, that computers are really, really good at.
I wouldn't be buying and selling so I don't care if a bot buys it.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
Very correct and they are better at keeping up with it than a live player would or could.
Lets be real. A player will not sit there and just keep matching them. Even at that, there are live players that do well manipulating the market. I use to do well with armorings and mods in a previous game. I am not suggesting I controlled the market by any means but I did make bank working it pretty good.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up0 -
Kagukan✭✭✭✭✭
✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Why not both. just make the Global Auction House Tax 12%, which is a total of 5% more then the Guild store, Adds more to the gold sink, guilds get to keep their traders and players who just come and go every so often don't burden guilds by lack of activity. Could even limit it to 15-20 Item listings just to have a reason to be in a guild too.
This or something like this would be acceptable.
2 big things are needed.
A system that is open to anyone without the need to join a guild.
A single search that displays all items available globally.
1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.0 -
SecantSoul ShrivenBrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
You can't actually think you'll be able to list items faster than bots can scan the AH and buy them up.
Speed and accuracy are things, shall I remind you, that computers are really, really good at.
I wouldn't be buying and selling so I don't care if a bot buys it.
If you're not going to be participating in this hypothetical economy, then why do you even care?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
And a player could not outdo the bots as the player is singular and the bots are plural. Very simple put they know what they are doing which is why they are successful.
Of course a cartel of players working a GAH could outdo the bots if they were well organized. Is that what you are suggesting happens with GAH? It makes sense because it would be so much easier to do than with a decentralized system we have in ESO.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
You can't actually think you'll be able to list items faster than bots can scan the AH and buy them up.
Speed and accuracy are things, shall I remind you, that computers are really, really good at.
I wouldn't be buying and selling so I don't care if a bot buys it.
If you're not going to be participating in this hypothetical economy, then why do you even care?
Selling >.> just not Playing the market0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Im well aware that people can do 100Million in sales a week but only 5 or 10 million is profit which gets tied up in playing the market0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
0 -
SecantSoul ShrivenBrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?
Yes they could, not all mats, just the ones that matter.Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 4:03PM0 -
SecantSoul ShrivenBrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?
That’s a good question. I have no idea, but I’d point out that the server constantly being pinged out by bot activity isn’t exactly the ideal outcome. And I do think pinging out would happen sooner than running out of money (given the problems we already have with the servers).0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?
That’s a good question. I have no idea, but I’d point out that the server constantly being pinged out by bot activity isn’t exactly the ideal outcome. And I do think pinging out would happen sooner than running out of money (given the problems we already have with the servers).
would have to say if one player kept buying 1000s of gold mats it would ping the server and be looked into.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?
That’s a good question. I have no idea, but I’d point out that the server constantly being pinged out by bot activity isn’t exactly the ideal outcome. And I do think pinging out would happen sooner than running out of money (given the problems we already have with the servers).
You program them to only perform the allowed number of calls within the api permitted per unit of time and spread that across several bots. In a day the job would be done. After that, going foward would require way fewer server requests.Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 4:09PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
they might be able to "buy" it but they will not be able to re sell it, before more went up.
The bots would. All that is required is a price percent above the current tax to return a profit.
And all I would need to do is just keep placing up right under them until the price settles make gold and sell more.
Kind of defeats some of you position earlier about reducing prices doesn't it?
Also the average player will never gave enough raws to make a dent like that.
I have stacks of gold and orange mats and know I could not beat a bot system on a GAH.
Bots would not be able to continue selling something that kept being put up with such limited sales slots and lower the price still applies as the top price can't stay top if people keep putting up
They do not have to. They cache the item and put it up for sale later at a higher return.
The trick is maintaining a flow of capital to sustain purchases which is very doable. I know people who see a capital flow near 100 million a week. Mind you that is not profit but I do not feel like going into that level of financing right now.
Even if "bots" were buying all of it to "resell it later" there would still be no profit from gold mats because they would NEVER get their chance of NO gold mats being on the market
But that's where you're wrong. If the bots are buying up the mats faster than any human could, then the humans who need to buy those mats will have no choice but to buy at the extortionate listings.
You really think that bots would "buy" ALL the mats in the game and not run out of gold or ping the hell out of the server?
That’s a good question. I have no idea, but I’d point out that the server constantly being pinged out by bot activity isn’t exactly the ideal outcome. And I do think pinging out would happen sooner than running out of money (given the problems we already have with the servers).
You program them to only perform the allowed number of calls within the api permitted per unit of time and spread that across several bots. In a day the job would be done. After that, going foward would require way fewer server requests.
they would still need to buy More then 100k gold mats every day for the longest time before any would be able to re sell it just to have hit a road block by more going up. Also bots don't control the market in other MMOs what makes you think they could in ESO.Edited by BrianLovesLisa on June 17, 2019 4:13PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭Posting here because above post did not show it with out going threw all qoutes
they would still need to buy More then 100k gold mats every day for the longest time before any would be able to re sell it just to have hit a road block by more going up. Also bots don't control the market in other MMOs what makes you think they could in ESO.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
I'm still not seeing the basis for your statement.
The reason people go to look at an AH or Trader is because they want to purchase Something. That's the bottom line.
The manipulation of prices is completely irrelevant. Both systems can and will be manipulated.
People just want to be able to buy their item. And if they are like me, they might grumble a bit, but they will over-pay IF they can get their item
With the Global AH you have the guarantee that IF someone is selling the item you are looking for, you WILL be able to find it, and then can decide if you want to pay that price. If no one has that item currently for sale, you will know immediately and will continue on playing. Takes just a couple minutes of your time.
With the Trader system we have, the item may be available for purchase, yet the Player has No access to it.
Reason one - The Player does not know which Trader to go to in order to find one that has the item. So now they have to go physically to all the Traders that they know about, hoping to find their item. But when none of the one they Know about has it, it is just a big waste of time.
Reason two - The Trader may have lost out on their bid this week and now the item IS on sale but Only to members of that guild.
People want to sell items. They should be allowed full access to all the players in the game that want to buy. They should Not be restricted to just the characters who physically show up at a specific location. With the current system, the restriction is the case .
People want to purchase items. They should be able to find their item easily IF it is on sale, and purchase it. With the current system, that is Not the case.
I just do not see where this Trader system is "superior" to the Global AH in any way.
Here's the thing though. In the current system, if you put in just a little bit of effort and are looking for 1 specific item, you may find it in an out of the way trader for a steal of a price. In an AH, that item (if it has any value) will be expensive. So great, you may be able to find it right away but you probably won't be able to afford to buy it.
It takes under 2 hours to search every trader in the game. If you are looking for something specific, that is nothing compared to the time it would take to farm the item. Traders are easily accessible to every player in the game. Not owning the DLC or being too lazy to go to out of the way locations is user error and not a problem with the trade system.
I'll take the current system that requires a little effort but rewards that effort with better deals. And I play on console, with zero external help with the trade system. If I want an item I search every trader until I get it at a price I want to pay. And often, that price is much lower than the market value of the item. An AH system would ensure that you would almost never find "deals" and will always be paying top end prices for items. It would ruin the ingame economy.2