Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are tedious.

Violynne · May 2018

Do the quests up until you unlock Kari's board. Grab the quest. If it's not Crime Spree, abandon it.

Crime Spree is the fastest way to level up TG. 3 boxed per spree. This also levels up legerdemain, which is perfect as you'll want to increase the Lockpicking skill. By the time you've done a few of these, you should be able to snap most simple and intermediate safeboxes, making the quest quicker. Another level, and Advanced becomes easier.

Once you hit TG 12, you're done. You get all the perks of TG skill line and your legerdemain will be higher, too.

Then you can do the quests whenever you want.

Silver_Strider · May 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I started a new character and bum rushed thru both the TG and DB within a week and didn't even hit 40 with him.

Didn't bother with the TG tip board very much as pickpocket sucks without maxing out the pickpocket passive in Legerdemain, just Spencer and Heists pretty much to level thru TG (did about 3 or so tip board quests, MAX). The TG levels up fairly quickly considering each of the main cast's side quests give 50 towards the skill line and you only need to get to 8 I believe to finish the MQ (unless you count Zera's final quest as the true ending, in which case 10 is max).

As for the DB, I like killing. I spammed that little book of death so many times and would barely need to leave Gold Coast as the vast majority of contracts I got were in Anvil or Kvatch (handful sent me to Stonefalls or Deshaan but nowhere very far that I couldn't just wayshrine to them in seconds). I finished that whole questline the first 2 days of starting the character and did the Litany of Blood as an extracurricular after the fact.

You want a tedious grind, get to Grand Warlord in PvP, because the TG and DB are hardly tedious.

as much as I love the comparison of what a grind is, GW/GO is not suprising as PvP has very little content which is a stark contrast from PvE. I do know that pain having a rank 32 bombblade and then looking at my next rank progessively increase in gains needed by over 500k.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if it wasnt for the fact that if you are not a nightblade then TG and DB sucks. being a nightblade makes everything much easier everyone else just has invis pots which are on a CD like every other pot.

Yeah I am aware that you can level them fast(ish) but fast is a relative term and depends on how much time you have to play. I still see no need for the story quests to be restricted.

At least with the mages guild and fighters guild you've usually leveled those while going from 1-50 and with both its just a 1 way street you just keep going forward with TG and DB you go forward then back then forward again and then back etc etc. After doing it on 3 characters I am sick to death of it.

should also note that at least the mages guild and fighters guild wasnt locked behind actually leveling the skill line it was or well one mission per region. Which frankly was fine.

The difference between the TG and DB from FG and MG is that they're DLCs. ZOS made them needlessly grindy to try and extent their value as DLC content (and failed IMO as both provided very little content on their own, MoL excluded). Had they been bundled together as a single DLC, then maybe I could understand making the skill line leveling to advance the story of each as more of a hindrance than anything but from a business standpoint, it would be very hard to push out these DLCs as stand alone content considering they can be finished within a very short span of time. I can understand wanting to do the story at once to fully enjoy it, with the side content to be done at your leisure but I feel it would take away from the content as a whole. It would feel like the College of Winterhold Questline in Skyrim where you could have the most basic understanding of Magic and still be named Archmage; it was a very shallow experience IMO.

Whether or not I agree with the current method of progression is irrelevant, mostly because the content isn't particularly grindy enough to warrant complaint in comparison to something like Undaunted but also because I enjoy that content well enough and wish it was actually longer. I wish that I could go into some random Outlaw Refugee and meet with Quen, Hadvar or anyone from the TG/DB and help them with a contract or Heist to steal something/kill someone in the area. I wish I could break into Bank Vaults and steal some unique artifact, similar to Kari's Hot List but actualy somewhat challenging to pull off instead of walking up to the item in whatever easily accessible location it was in and just steal the item that was out in plain sight of everyone. The intro quest of the TG was what I was expecting as the norm for that content and instead it was a 1 shot experience.

Here's the issue. There is people like you that want to get the story all at once and there are people like me that want content to be engaging and feel like I have to earn my keep to get the story. ZOS provided a somewhat middle ground by allowing some semi meaningful side content with things like the TG personal quests but there's always going to be people like you and I that feel it's not enough for their personal tastes.

xeNNNNN · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I started a new character and bum rushed thru both the TG and DB within a week and didn't even hit 40 with him.

Didn't bother with the TG tip board very much as pickpocket sucks without maxing out the pickpocket passive in Legerdemain, just Spencer and Heists pretty much to level thru TG (did about 3 or so tip board quests, MAX). The TG levels up fairly quickly considering each of the main cast's side quests give 50 towards the skill line and you only need to get to 8 I believe to finish the MQ (unless you count Zera's final quest as the true ending, in which case 10 is max).

As for the DB, I like killing. I spammed that little book of death so many times and would barely need to leave Gold Coast as the vast majority of contracts I got were in Anvil or Kvatch (handful sent me to Stonefalls or Deshaan but nowhere very far that I couldn't just wayshrine to them in seconds). I finished that whole questline the first 2 days of starting the character and did the Litany of Blood as an extracurricular after the fact.

You want a tedious grind, get to Grand Warlord in PvP, because the TG and DB are hardly tedious.

as much as I love the comparison of what a grind is, GW/GO is not suprising as PvP has very little content which is a stark contrast from PvE. I do know that pain having a rank 32 bombblade and then looking at my next rank progessively increase in gains needed by over 500k.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if it wasnt for the fact that if you are not a nightblade then TG and DB sucks. being a nightblade makes everything much easier everyone else just has invis pots which are on a CD like every other pot.

Yeah I am aware that you can level them fast(ish) but fast is a relative term and depends on how much time you have to play. I still see no need for the story quests to be restricted.

At least with the mages guild and fighters guild you've usually leveled those while going from 1-50 and with both its just a 1 way street you just keep going forward with TG and DB you go forward then back then forward again and then back etc etc. After doing it on 3 characters I am sick to death of it.

should also note that at least the mages guild and fighters guild wasnt locked behind actually leveling the skill line it was or well one mission per region. Which frankly was fine.

The difference between the TG and DB from FG and MG is that they're DLCs. ZOS made them needlessly grindy to try and extent their value as DLC content (and failed IMO as both provided very little content on their own, MoL excluded). Had they been bundled together as a single DLC, then maybe I could understand making the skill line leveling to advance the story of each as more of a hindrance than anything but from a business standpoint, it would be very hard to push out these DLCs as stand alone content considering they can be finished within a very short span of time. I can understand wanting to do the story at once to fully enjoy it, with the side content to be done at your leisure but I feel it would take away from the content as a whole. It would feel like the College of Winterhold Questline in Skyrim where you could have the most basic understanding of Magic and still be named Archmage; it was a very shallow experience IMO.

Whether or not I agree with the current method of progression is irrelevant, mostly because the content isn't particularly grindy enough to warrant complaint in comparison to something like Undaunted but also because I enjoy that content well enough and wish it was actually longer. I wish that I could go into some random Outlaw Refugee and meet with Quen, Hadvar or anyone from the TG/DB and help them with a contract or Heist to steal something/kill someone in the area. I wish I could break into Bank Vaults and steal some unique artifact, similar to Kari's Hot List but actualy somewhat challenging to pull off instead of walking up to the item in whatever easily accessible location it was in and just steal the item that was out in plain sight of everyone. The intro quest of the TG was what I was expecting as the norm for that content and instead it was a 1 shot experience.

Here's the issue. There is people like you that want to get the story all at once and there are people like me that want content to be engaging and feel like I have to earn my keep to get the story. ZOS provided a somewhat middle ground by allowing some semi meaningful side content with things like the TG personal quests but there's always going to be people like you and I that feel it's not enough for their personal tastes.

I did state that you could still do that even with the restriction removed for solo RP puposes so you can keep that feeling of character progression it would just be your choice and not forced. I dont see why it should be a forced requirement as everything else in the game is fine considering these are the only two things in the game that do this too story content.

Yes from a business standpoint it makes sense but its crappy for the player base, removing it wouldnt hinder you at all in terms of your character progression in fact the choice of CHOOSING to do it yourself instead of being forced to do it automatically makes it more meaningful, if they must force a sense of progression rather than giving the player a complete choice then they're doing it wrong.

The only thing it would take away is frustration. Its literally just the story and the difference here between skyrim and ESO is that you dont become head of the Mages guild, you dont head the fighters guild, you dont become the thieves guild guild-master and you dont become the listener in the dark brotherhood. So its not the same.

I get where you are coming from but honestly, I would enjoy the DLC far more and be willing to do the side content just fine so long as im not restricted by it. Alls I want is the story freed up so we have a choice of how we do it instead of being forced into it.

Besides they've been out for over a year now and everyones buying the "collection" of the game (new players) rather than the DLCs in singular purchases so I dont think they're really in a position anymore where they need to justify it as much as they used too and everyone who would of brought it one bit at a time has likely already done that.

OmniDo · May 2018

Lylith wrote: »

sacraments are truly tedious, imho.

that or, after four years, my patience with this game is wearing thin.

Probably the latter.
Most sacraments can be completed in <5 minutes, once you have memorized them all and know where the target(s) are.
Waiting for patrols can be a pain, and to be fair, Nightblades can blitz them with impunity for the most part, thanks to Cloak.

Personally, I wish I could do sacraments repeatedly.
Theyre the only real "fun" I have with the brotherhood because of their feel, and plotting how to murder specific targets without being detected as well as escaping, heck...I could do that all day and probably not get bored.
Sadly, we can only do them once per character, per day.
Good thing I have 8 alts...

xeNNNNN · May 2018

OmniDo wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

sacraments are truly tedious, imho.

that or, after four years, my patience with this game is wearing thin.

Probably the latter.
Most sacraments can be completed in <5 minutes, once you have memorized them all and know where the target(s) are.
Waiting for patrols can be a pain, and to be fair, Nightblades can blitz them with impunity for the most part, thanks to Cloak.

Personally, I wish I could do sacraments repeatedly.
Theyre the only real "fun" I have with the brotherhood because of their feel, and plotting how to murder specific targets without being detected as well as escaping, heck...I could do that all day and probably not get bored.
Sadly, we can only do them once per character, per day.
Good thing I have 8 alts...

Yeah I could actually be okay with that, doing sacraments whenever you wanted would be great. I actually quite like them because they're unique places and not the same overland things ive been doing for 3 years. Sure it could get old rather quick but its much better than forever and always loading screens and tons of back tracking across the world.

This is of course not just because i like them but because they give 20 a time on a full completion challenges and all.

Silver_Strider · May 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I started a new character and bum rushed thru both the TG and DB within a week and didn't even hit 40 with him.

Didn't bother with the TG tip board very much as pickpocket sucks without maxing out the pickpocket passive in Legerdemain, just Spencer and Heists pretty much to level thru TG (did about 3 or so tip board quests, MAX). The TG levels up fairly quickly considering each of the main cast's side quests give 50 towards the skill line and you only need to get to 8 I believe to finish the MQ (unless you count Zera's final quest as the true ending, in which case 10 is max).

As for the DB, I like killing. I spammed that little book of death so many times and would barely need to leave Gold Coast as the vast majority of contracts I got were in Anvil or Kvatch (handful sent me to Stonefalls or Deshaan but nowhere very far that I couldn't just wayshrine to them in seconds). I finished that whole questline the first 2 days of starting the character and did the Litany of Blood as an extracurricular after the fact.

You want a tedious grind, get to Grand Warlord in PvP, because the TG and DB are hardly tedious.

as much as I love the comparison of what a grind is, GW/GO is not suprising as PvP has very little content which is a stark contrast from PvE. I do know that pain having a rank 32 bombblade and then looking at my next rank progessively increase in gains needed by over 500k.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if it wasnt for the fact that if you are not a nightblade then TG and DB sucks. being a nightblade makes everything much easier everyone else just has invis pots which are on a CD like every other pot.

Yeah I am aware that you can level them fast(ish) but fast is a relative term and depends on how much time you have to play. I still see no need for the story quests to be restricted.

At least with the mages guild and fighters guild you've usually leveled those while going from 1-50 and with both its just a 1 way street you just keep going forward with TG and DB you go forward then back then forward again and then back etc etc. After doing it on 3 characters I am sick to death of it.

should also note that at least the mages guild and fighters guild wasnt locked behind actually leveling the skill line it was or well one mission per region. Which frankly was fine.

The difference between the TG and DB from FG and MG is that they're DLCs. ZOS made them needlessly grindy to try and extent their value as DLC content (and failed IMO as both provided very little content on their own, MoL excluded). Had they been bundled together as a single DLC, then maybe I could understand making the skill line leveling to advance the story of each as more of a hindrance than anything but from a business standpoint, it would be very hard to push out these DLCs as stand alone content considering they can be finished within a very short span of time. I can understand wanting to do the story at once to fully enjoy it, with the side content to be done at your leisure but I feel it would take away from the content as a whole. It would feel like the College of Winterhold Questline in Skyrim where you could have the most basic understanding of Magic and still be named Archmage; it was a very shallow experience IMO.

Whether or not I agree with the current method of progression is irrelevant, mostly because the content isn't particularly grindy enough to warrant complaint in comparison to something like Undaunted but also because I enjoy that content well enough and wish it was actually longer. I wish that I could go into some random Outlaw Refugee and meet with Quen, Hadvar or anyone from the TG/DB and help them with a contract or Heist to steal something/kill someone in the area. I wish I could break into Bank Vaults and steal some unique artifact, similar to Kari's Hot List but actualy somewhat challenging to pull off instead of walking up to the item in whatever easily accessible location it was in and just steal the item that was out in plain sight of everyone. The intro quest of the TG was what I was expecting as the norm for that content and instead it was a 1 shot experience.

Here's the issue. There is people like you that want to get the story all at once and there are people like me that want content to be engaging and feel like I have to earn my keep to get the story. ZOS provided a somewhat middle ground by allowing some semi meaningful side content with things like the TG personal quests but there's always going to be people like you and I that feel it's not enough for their personal tastes.

I did state that you could still do that even with the restriction removed for solo RP puposes so you can keep that feeling of character progression it would just be your choice and not forced. I dont see why it should be a forced requirement as everything else in the game is fine considering these are the only two things in the game that do this too story content.

Yes from a business standpoint it makes sense but its crappy for the player base, removing it wouldnt hinder you at all in terms of your character progression in fact the choice of CHOOSING to do it yourself instead of being forced to do it automatically makes it more meaningful, if they must force a sense of progression rather than giving the player a complete choice then they're doing it wrong.

The only thing it would take away is frustration. Its literally just the story and the difference here between skyrim and ESO is that you dont become head of the Mages guild, you dont head the fighters guild, you dont become the thieves guild guild-master and you dont become the listener in the dark brotherhood. So its not the same.

I get where you are coming from but honestly, I would enjoy the DLC far more and be willing to do the side content just fine so long as im not restricted by it. Alls I want is the story freed up so we have a choice of how we do it instead of being forced into it.

Besides they've been out for over a year now and everyones buying the "collection" of the game (new players) rather than the DLCs in singular purchases so I dont think they're really in a position anymore where they need to justify it as much as they used too and everyone who would of brought it one bit at a time has likely already done that.

Your sense of meaningful is completely different from my own. For me, your suggestion would be akin to the new guy at work being promoted to CEO within a month for doing the bare minimal whereas the employee that goes above and beyond gets left behind; It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and its the same with every questline that does that in ESO. There's no sense to them, just a pointlessly quick questline for skill points. Honestly, the most meanful choice in those questline is whether or not we trade whats-her-name to Shegorath for 2 skill points or not. I don't even do those quests unless I'm desperate for skill points on new characters and don't feel like skyshard hunting.

I don't think we'll ever really see eye to eye on this topic so I say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

xeNNNNN · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I started a new character and bum rushed thru both the TG and DB within a week and didn't even hit 40 with him.

Didn't bother with the TG tip board very much as pickpocket sucks without maxing out the pickpocket passive in Legerdemain, just Spencer and Heists pretty much to level thru TG (did about 3 or so tip board quests, MAX). The TG levels up fairly quickly considering each of the main cast's side quests give 50 towards the skill line and you only need to get to 8 I believe to finish the MQ (unless you count Zera's final quest as the true ending, in which case 10 is max).

As for the DB, I like killing. I spammed that little book of death so many times and would barely need to leave Gold Coast as the vast majority of contracts I got were in Anvil or Kvatch (handful sent me to Stonefalls or Deshaan but nowhere very far that I couldn't just wayshrine to them in seconds). I finished that whole questline the first 2 days of starting the character and did the Litany of Blood as an extracurricular after the fact.

You want a tedious grind, get to Grand Warlord in PvP, because the TG and DB are hardly tedious.

as much as I love the comparison of what a grind is, GW/GO is not suprising as PvP has very little content which is a stark contrast from PvE. I do know that pain having a rank 32 bombblade and then looking at my next rank progessively increase in gains needed by over 500k.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if it wasnt for the fact that if you are not a nightblade then TG and DB sucks. being a nightblade makes everything much easier everyone else just has invis pots which are on a CD like every other pot.

Yeah I am aware that you can level them fast(ish) but fast is a relative term and depends on how much time you have to play. I still see no need for the story quests to be restricted.

At least with the mages guild and fighters guild you've usually leveled those while going from 1-50 and with both its just a 1 way street you just keep going forward with TG and DB you go forward then back then forward again and then back etc etc. After doing it on 3 characters I am sick to death of it.

should also note that at least the mages guild and fighters guild wasnt locked behind actually leveling the skill line it was or well one mission per region. Which frankly was fine.

The difference between the TG and DB from FG and MG is that they're DLCs. ZOS made them needlessly grindy to try and extent their value as DLC content (and failed IMO as both provided very little content on their own, MoL excluded). Had they been bundled together as a single DLC, then maybe I could understand making the skill line leveling to advance the story of each as more of a hindrance than anything but from a business standpoint, it would be very hard to push out these DLCs as stand alone content considering they can be finished within a very short span of time. I can understand wanting to do the story at once to fully enjoy it, with the side content to be done at your leisure but I feel it would take away from the content as a whole. It would feel like the College of Winterhold Questline in Skyrim where you could have the most basic understanding of Magic and still be named Archmage; it was a very shallow experience IMO.

Whether or not I agree with the current method of progression is irrelevant, mostly because the content isn't particularly grindy enough to warrant complaint in comparison to something like Undaunted but also because I enjoy that content well enough and wish it was actually longer. I wish that I could go into some random Outlaw Refugee and meet with Quen, Hadvar or anyone from the TG/DB and help them with a contract or Heist to steal something/kill someone in the area. I wish I could break into Bank Vaults and steal some unique artifact, similar to Kari's Hot List but actualy somewhat challenging to pull off instead of walking up to the item in whatever easily accessible location it was in and just steal the item that was out in plain sight of everyone. The intro quest of the TG was what I was expecting as the norm for that content and instead it was a 1 shot experience.

Here's the issue. There is people like you that want to get the story all at once and there are people like me that want content to be engaging and feel like I have to earn my keep to get the story. ZOS provided a somewhat middle ground by allowing some semi meaningful side content with things like the TG personal quests but there's always going to be people like you and I that feel it's not enough for their personal tastes.

I did state that you could still do that even with the restriction removed for solo RP puposes so you can keep that feeling of character progression it would just be your choice and not forced. I dont see why it should be a forced requirement as everything else in the game is fine considering these are the only two things in the game that do this too story content.

Yes from a business standpoint it makes sense but its crappy for the player base, removing it wouldnt hinder you at all in terms of your character progression in fact the choice of CHOOSING to do it yourself instead of being forced to do it automatically makes it more meaningful, if they must force a sense of progression rather than giving the player a complete choice then they're doing it wrong.

The only thing it would take away is frustration. Its literally just the story and the difference here between skyrim and ESO is that you dont become head of the Mages guild, you dont head the fighters guild, you dont become the thieves guild guild-master and you dont become the listener in the dark brotherhood. So its not the same.

I get where you are coming from but honestly, I would enjoy the DLC far more and be willing to do the side content just fine so long as im not restricted by it. Alls I want is the story freed up so we have a choice of how we do it instead of being forced into it.

Besides they've been out for over a year now and everyones buying the "collection" of the game (new players) rather than the DLCs in singular purchases so I dont think they're really in a position anymore where they need to justify it as much as they used too and everyone who would of brought it one bit at a time has likely already done that.

Your sense of meaningful is completely different from my own. For me, your suggestion would be akin to the new guy at work being promoted to CEO within a month for doing the bare minimal whereas the employee that goes above and beyond gets left behind; It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and its the same with every questline that does that in ESO. There's no sense to them, just a pointlessly quick questline for skill points. Honestly, the most meanful choice in those questline is whether or not we trade whats-her-name to Shegorath for 2 skill points or not. I don't even do those quests unless I'm desperate for skill points on new characters and don't feel like skyshard hunting.

I don't think we'll ever really see eye to eye on this topic so I say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Fair enough we can agree too disagree but I will say two things, the use of a real world comparison to further a point of view in a video game is a litter extreme when the topic is merely about access vs restriction, this is after all a product of leisure and fun and its not supposed to be a chore. Its supposed to be enjoyable.

secondly the idea of this "promotion" purely comes from the fact it was gated in the first place. Its not like TG actually have a true rank structure you made it through the ranks to be respected in TG because you helped pull everyone back together ultimately the side quests meant nothing and weren't even really mentioned beyond heists the idea that one must do menial tasks to be seen as someone skilled or learned in a job or a specific enviroment is silly as while they may be qualified for those menial tasks doesnt mean they have to do them especially when the simple fact is that for the stories they are irrelevant and you're pulled into the thick of it immediately so you prove yourself in the moment rather than "doing the little things first", it depends on the job. Only in DB does that actually become relevant and even then in the DB story you actually gain rank (story wise) by completing the stories and proving yourself throughout each mission. I find your real world comparison rather hard to grasp in comparison, its looking at something very small far too deeply imo. Overthinking it in other words.

But yes we can agree to disagree.

TheShadowScout · May 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are tedious...

Yes. Yes they are.
IF...
...you try to do them in one go.

If on the other hand you make use of One Tamriel, and join early on, then mix doing TG/DB quests and main/region storyline questings with some thievery and assassination mixed it... its way less tedious.

I suppose it -would- be nicer if you could do more to advance those guilds though... if you did not always have to travel all over the world, but could get the same missions in every outlaw refugee... have a special TG representative in evey outlaw refugee who gives thievery or burglary miniquests for that map only, or a shadowy courier who offers assassinations for that map only... so you could advance your criminal rep en passent during questing without all those side trips...

zaria · May 2018

karekiz wrote: »

I am fine with leveling the skills, but the worst part of it is the fact the questline itself is locked behind skill ups. Its feels like a pain for alts to get the skill points from the quests when you have to grind out a skill you will never use otherwise.

You grind reputation. I like it it remind me of Morrowind there you had to do side quests to advance in guild ranks and its not like its an serious grind, just doing some random quests.
TG, no issue at all I did heists for fun and motifs, add in some countess quests and safe box spree and it never felt like an grind.
DB, not really for this one, yes the story was good, but DB was to evil for Khajiit.

Lylith · May 2018

zaria wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

sacraments are truly tedious, imho.

that or, after four years, my patience with this game is wearing thin.

Sacraments are easy compared to the TG ones, you can have 4 discoveries and timer only start then you redraw.
Found I could just run with night mother gaze and kill the touch guys on the way out
On the other hand the heists always give motif if within time.

OmniDo wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

sacraments are truly tedious, imho.

that or, after four years, my patience with this game is wearing thin.

Probably the latter.
Most sacraments can be completed in <5 minutes, once you have memorized them all and know where the target(s) are.
Waiting for patrols can be a pain, and to be fair, Nightblades can blitz them with impunity for the most part, thanks to Cloak.

Personally, I wish I could do sacraments repeatedly.
Theyre the only real "fun" I have with the brotherhood because of their feel, and plotting how to murder specific targets without being detected as well as escaping, heck...I could do that all day and probably not get bored.
Sadly, we can only do them once per character, per day.
Good thing I have 8 alts...

most likely i need to spend more time with them, i certainly don't have them memorized.

as you say, 'probably the latter.'

running them on an nb was much easier than a 'normal' character, too, iirc.

same goes for tg heists.

Taleof2Cities · May 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

errr no thats not what I was suggesting, What I was suggesting was removing the restriction of the main story quests of the skill line from having to grind repeatables out.

Next time read my post properly please.

Ah, got it ... you want the skill points handed to you without any effort.

Since you won’t be using the skill line passives in your style of gameplay ...

I was referencing the Heist drop rate for Thieves Guild motifs (which increases with the skill line and also requires running flawless Heists within the alotted time).

FrancisCrawford · May 2018

Aesthier wrote: »

I didn't have a problem with either of them. Both went pretty fast for me.

Read the paper "Kari's Hit List" for Thieves Guild and the book "Litany of Blood" for Dark Brotherhood once you are able to.

Those provided a nice fat little chunk.

Kari's Hit List provides Thieves Guild reputation? I wish I'd know that back when I was leveling my thief.

xeNNNNN · May 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

errr no thats not what I was suggesting, What I was suggesting was removing the restriction of the main story quests of the skill line from having to grind repeatables out.

Next time read my post properly please.

Ah, got it ... you want the skill points handed to you without any effort.

Since you won’t be using the skill line passives in your style of gameplay ...

I was referencing the Heist drop rate for Thieves Guild motifs (which increases with the skill line and also requires running flawless Heists within the alotted time).

-_- I don't GaF about the skill points i have 51 free skill points that on my character im trying to do this on for the 3rd/4th time i haven't used and have no need too use and thats just from cads gold and silver. So no skill points arent the issue for me.

and I did my share of farming TG and Abahs watch a long time ago, so no idc about that either it is the story being freed up is alls i want.

again with this nonsense of " without effort" pfft. Have you read nothing I have said? I have not once indicated I want the motiffs easily, nor have I indicated I want the skill points easily, I am literally talking about the story here. Which the rank system for the guilds has absolutely 0 impact on other than the fact its gated behind ranks because it has passives.

Sky-shards? Every quest in the game?

Do they require "effort" in the way your interpreting it no they dont. The skill points, the passives, they're all gated behind a meaningless rank system that doesn't tie into the story or effect how its told or impact you in any way other than gated passives.

but fine, you want me to suggest something so your misconceived notion of what effort is in this game can be satisfied? then lock the skill points behind various ranks of the DB and TG so the story can be freed up. But then while id be fine with that some of the people here would likely object. So frankly igaf if the skill points get freed up or not. so long as I can actually continue the story in a reasonable fashion instead of having to tedious crap that has no impact on the story for passives i dont even need nor want.

Oh and just FYI, effort in this game is the following; Vmol, vHoF, VMA and probably some hard modes thats litterally about it. Oh and of course what another already mentioned, ranking up in PvP THAT is effort.

GrumpyDuckling · May 2018

100% agree.

The dumbest thing about Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild is that they're just loading screen fests. Example:

- Wayshrine to Gold Coast (loading screen 1)
- Enter Sanctuary (loading screen 2)
- Leave Sanctuary after getting contract (loading screen 3)
- Wayshrine to area where contract is located (loading screen 4)
- Wayshrine back to Gold Coast after killing contract (loading screen 5)
- Enter Sanctuary (loading screen 6)
- Leave Sanctuary (loading screen 7)

7 loading screens for one measly quest.

Appleblade · May 2018

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Should we just hand players a full skill line and all the perks (including better motif drops) ... without any effort?

Why is this the alternative? Just untie the main questline from skill line advancement. Voila! Now you can advance the story without tedium, but still have to work for the skills!

It happens every thread where someone questions any level of grind. Some self appointed guardian of the gaming work ethic has to make the “I guess you want everything handed to you for zero effort! Zero effort, I say!” post, and then others have to patiently explain that, no, such a thing was not even remotely suggested.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

I'd like to see them add more overall achievements/quests such as the "Litany of Blood" for DB or the "Hit List" in TG. Quests that actually require some investigation, not just mindlessly meandering to the next quest marker.

xeNNNNN · May 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'd like to see them add more overall achievements/quests such as the "Litany of Blood" for DB or the "Hit List" in TG. Quests that actually require some investigation, not just mindlessly meandering to the next quest marker.

Now that I could get behind, i love investigative quests and such. Though i do wonder how well that would work out because once you've done it once you basically know how it all ends up or just where everything is so that can still get repetitive unless they make quests that have multiple results beyond a little bit of dialogue.

Chaos2088 · May 2018

After doing the quests to fully max out the skill lines by doing the dailies it just dull...it does need tweeking slightly.

Rain_Greyraven · May 2018

I laugh when I read threads like this.....remembering the requirements of guild leveling in the older TES games, anyway I actually found the DB quest to go rather fast..much faster than say undaunted or Thieves Guild.

/shrug

AefionBloodclaw · May 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I like the stories, Dark Brotherhood more than thieves guild arguably however I honest feel like ZoS should remove the quest requirements for doing the story, it inhibits fluidity of the story and honestly just still after all this time feels like a massive grind especially considering the repeatable quests are basically just Go to A, B or C. Kill or steal. Go back. Its very repetitive and boring.

Those who like it for role play reasons well they can still have it they can just do it by choice rather than being forced into it. As can the rest of the community.

But the restrictions should be removed. People will still do the repeatable too actually level the passive lines because some of the passives are kinda neat and fun still but the degree in which you need to run there and run back then go through several loading screens and then rinse and repeat is just tedious on a massive scale especially when it locks you out of quests until you've grinded through them.

Please ZoS remove the Story quest requirements. Let us do it when we want rather than being forced to grind out tedious crap that isn't fun.

This person is correct in every way. I'm trying to do the DB story right now, and the hateful requirements for the next quest to drop are rediculous, having to do these tedious, frustrating grindy crap just to do the story content is such an insult to Elder Scrolls fans who just want to experience the story.

xeNNNNN · May 2018

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I like the stories, Dark Brotherhood more than thieves guild arguably however I honest feel like ZoS should remove the quest requirements for doing the story, it inhibits fluidity of the story and honestly just still after all this time feels like a massive grind especially considering the repeatable quests are basically just Go to A, B or C. Kill or steal. Go back. Its very repetitive and boring.

Those who like it for role play reasons well they can still have it they can just do it by choice rather than being forced into it. As can the rest of the community.

But the restrictions should be removed. People will still do the repeatable too actually level the passive lines because some of the passives are kinda neat and fun still but the degree in which you need to run there and run back then go through several loading screens and then rinse and repeat is just tedious on a massive scale especially when it locks you out of quests until you've grinded through them.

Please ZoS remove the Story quest requirements. Let us do it when we want rather than being forced to grind out tedious crap that isn't fun.

This person is correct in every way. I'm trying to do the DB story right now, and the hateful requirements for the next quest to drop are rediculous, having to do these tedious, frustrating grindy crap just to do the story content is such an insult to Elder Scrolls fans who just want to experience the story.

Well thank you haha. Its rare that someone says everything I say is correct :P

Yeah theres something of a lack of player freedom here in both TG and DB that is insanely frustrating, if it was just like "go do a contract or two so I can figure this out" from the NPC and it literally meant 1 or 2 not 5-10 per rank then id be fine with it really but do a quest then GRIND GRIND GRIND then mission again it completely halts story progression.

People had the same issue when it released and while I accept it was probably necessary back then due to the lack of content provided in it in comparison with something like wrothgar (perfect example for all DLCs), its been quite some time now surely they can remove the constraints considering how much content is now in the game overall.

kentgreigrwb17_ESO · June 2019

I personally find the DB and TG quest lines fun. FG is a real chore (partly because there is no reward) and MG is too unimaginative. Psijic is a complete pain - long and not fun; the skull dialogue when you have done the chain a few times makes me cringe.

Llaren_Uvayn · June 2019

At least the TG heists and the DB sacraments involved a bit of design. The Psijic Order quest line was the most uninspired drag I've come across in all of ESO.