Generation "Instant Gratification" ruined MMORPGs

Knightpanther · June 2019

SpankinDamob wrote: »

Former Everquest player here too. I absolutely loved that game. When it came out in 98 I blown away and a Evercrack addict from the get go. The idea I could play a rpg with all these from all over the world was mind blowing. Grind? Their really was no quests. You leveled up grouping up with other players and finding a good camp spot for your level and grinding to he same mobs over and over till you was ready to move to a higher level spot. Ever group required at least the 3 holy trinity Tank, Healer, Enchanter / Bard ( crowd control). Solo? Some classes could effectively grind low lvl mobs that were just about to stop giving xp. I remember there being a joke about a Warrior solo’d a green conning mob. Time to nerf them!

I still remember when one of the main developers sent a system wide message asking for everyone to get their friends to log in cause they was about to hit 400,000 players online for the first time. 400,000? Modern games have way more than that online all the time.

This generation didn’t ruin anything. Consumers changed it cause their more of us that enjoy the content that you don’t like. While it was a blast back then it was mainly cause there’d never been any thing like it before. When we realized we could still have fun playing a Mmorpg without having to stay in one spot killing the same mobs over and over we voted with our wallets.

If anything you should be upset with people like yourself who haven’t found a game that caters to your likes. Maybe Brads new game will come out someday and do that.

You just brought a tear to my eye, nostalgia is a wonderful thing, before the release of EQ i had only ever played text based MUDS, EQ was OMFG!
My best ever gaming memory was of my group zoning into The Grey and our Halfling healer forgetting EB, the animation of her shaking whilst dying made me literally fall off my chair. - Good times, i miss when games were difficult and raids hard but the way life is now i could not do all that again.

Be safe

Drachenfier · June 2019

Everquest is still the best mmo ever made....if that game had an update to put it on par with other games graphically, I'd never play anything else

srfrogg23 · June 2019

Xerikten wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Classic WoW will be available 27Aug19.

lmao wow created this. where have you been?

No it didn't. "This", whatever "this" is doesn't actually exist. The days of "you have to work" just to play a video game ended when developers realized that MMOs were a goldmine and making them accessible to the widest variety of credit card holding adults with actual jobs possible.

The old mindset of "working" games were also "very small" games.

Red_Feather · June 2019

I enjoy the format of each rarity adding a new mechanic to an item but not being better.

The new mechanic could be a slot that adds a rune that adds a buff+debuff combination.
Only available on Blues and UP.

Then Purples and UP get that and a new mechanic on top.

And so on.

I seen it done in another game but can't remember what.

khajiitNPC · June 2019

I’m thankful that the grind in ESO is nothing like early WoW, but as another poster pointed out, the color is not about rarity in ESO it’s about quality of the gear. I’d consider the understanding the fundamental differences between the two games before posting tired tropes and cliche commentary on generational “truths”.

Killum · June 2019

I remember the 1st item I was exited to get in an MMO (EQ2). There was (Is) an extremely long questline to get the 'Claymore' Sword.

When I completed after god knows how many months and the reward box popped up I had the choice of the sword or a Shield. I had only seen the sword before and so I chose the Shield. Never saw anyone else with it and it looked awesome.

Dusk_Coven · June 2019

Browiseth wrote: »

there's...a lot to go over with your post. there's a lot that could be said but...

it's pretty clear you're only interested in oversimplifying everything, so it's likely not worth anyone's time to try and partake in a discussion with you.

^ THIS
It would be great if the TOS were adjusted to let moderators delete useless threads like these right away. They can take it to reddit.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...you forget, they want it all account-wide too, because spending the effort twice for an second character seems too much of a bother to 'em...

If you say people who want alts only have one additional one, then you are either trolling or truly ignorant. Try 8. 15. In SWTOR some people are curious enough about the various twists in the storyline to have literally scores AND they youtube the results for others so other people don't have to grind all the paths.
If you don't understand the community that wants alts, do not presume to speak for them.

Knightpanther · June 2019

Drachenfier wrote: »

Everquest is still the best mmo ever made....if that game had an update to put it on par with other games graphically, I'd never play anything else

I second that, i still play although admittedly im miles behind now as i just log in to grind on my old necro and chat with friends, EQ2 was really good but they lost the plot, how i wish someone would buy the franchise and start EQ3 with modern graphics, amazing.

Be safe

Chadak · June 2019

Automobiles ruined the horse industry and devastated buggy manufacturers.

Kiralyn2000 · June 2019

"Getting a blue item in an early 2000's MMO = Precious"

And then, three weeks later & you had a purple item, all those blue items were trash.

...also, just because things have the same color in different games, doesn't mean they have the same value/meaning/rarity. Even between games released in the same year.

edit: I'm 48 years old and I've been playing games since 1979. All you young'uns crying "doooom" and "was better in The Olde Days" and "it's all ruined!" are hilarious.

david_m_18b16_ESO · June 2019

ESO never been about item color.

Kiralyn2000 · June 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

ESO never been about item color.

Good point. You can improve anything's color with crafting in this game. The color of the actual drop means a whole lot less than the combination of properties (weight, set, trait, etc)

Delsanab14_ESO · June 2019

N O

CORPORATIONS ruined everything, specifically corporate control over artistic license and a desire for microtransactions in everything.

Delsanab14_ESO · June 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

They want everything, right away, with no obstacles to overcome, and then they are still not, because getting showered in rewards somehow doesnt feel special enough, so they demand more and more, because surely if these blue items you get for free now dont make me happy, I am sure free epic/Legendary Items will...

...you forget, they want it all account-wide too, because spending the effort twice for an second character seems too much of a bother to 'em...

False. Many achievements will NEVER be finished on one char, such as many of the collectibles, better to group those amongst account or allow trading of the item. Please stop distorting and misrepresenting everything others say or want.

rfennell_ESO · June 2019

Knightpanther wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Everquest is still the best mmo ever made....if that game had an update to put it on par with other games graphically, I'd never play anything else

I second that, i still play although admittedly im miles behind now as i just log in to grind on my old necro and chat with friends, EQ2 was really good but they lost the plot, how i wish someone would buy the franchise and start EQ3 with modern graphics, amazing.

Be safe

Brad McQuaid is making Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.

It's basically very much like original everquest in concept.

Delsanab14_ESO · June 2019

In This Thread: Lie and attack those with legitimate criticisms and distort and misrepresent what they say. Sigh.

rotaugen454 · June 2019

I’m as “get off my lawn” as any other older man, but I’m not into generation bashing. Yes, I see some prevalent problems with this generation, but I see other things they beat my generation on.

ChunkyCat · June 2019

At first I was baffled that this post has so many replies.

Then I saw the original post has 26 “agrees”, and counting.

These are the reasons I’m so cynical about humanity.

Talk about 1st world problems.

Myrm · June 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

At first I was baffled that this post has so many replies.

Then I saw the original post has 26 “agrees”, and counting.

These are the reasons I’m so cynical about humanity.

Talk about 1st world problems.

My goodness. Do you have to be so cynical? It's 26 likes. 26. And you think that makes humanity something to be cynical about? I think you’re the one who needs to get priorities straight. Laughable.

Baconlad · June 2019

Older MMOs had a much different idea behind them. Grind
Grind a bit more
....
Grind for a few more days
....keep going
....
Almost there....
...yay you finally got something that isn't that great...

The reason WoW moved to a vendor system for their gear. Also the reason I dont play other MMOs anymore, cause nothing is worse than grinding for three months to get this season's gear just to have to start over the grind for the next set of gear next season.

I want to be able to get my powerful gear, even if I have to grind for it, and actually be able to enjoy it. I dont play an MMO for the grind, I play it for the content, and if I can't enjoy the content cause I'm busy regrinding gear...why would I play that. ESO already has a grind for the best gear. But they dont force you to reset your gear every 3 months. Sure they give more options, but you can run perfect gear that took you 3 months to gold out and perfect for 3 years.

That is what I enjoy about eso gear system. I dont know about you, but eso and newer generations of gamers didn't ruin MMOs, we made them better...by not being mind numbingly tedious. Look at why black desert in America has all but failed in such a short time, alot of problems, chief of them being the grind.

Hyperion616 · June 2019

My honest answer, times have changed, like all things do in this world.

Derra · June 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Classic WoW will be available 27Aug19.

Classic wow was what began ruining it though. It´s the root of all evil.

The mmorpgs before wow were the golden age.

Kalgert · June 2019

Oh, I've seen the dude's (Or dudette's) threads.

They're all pretty stupid.

ATomiX96 · June 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Good point. You can improve anything's color with crafting in this game. The color of the actual drop means a whole lot less than the combination of properties (weight, set, trait, etc)

Now remove trait as well which was the most variance of gear back then, because transmute exists.
These days you have to roll just the specific slot of the set-piece you want and well youre good to go, and if you happen to get a good trait, phew saved 50 gems.
Weights only affect Monster-sets which really arent hard to get, rest of the gear is either a single weight or crafted with a few exceptions like the BG sets.
Idk I kinda liked having to farm specifically a sharpened inferno in vMA because it kept me playing, now you do 3 runs, wait for weekly leaderboard and in 90% of the cases you have a inferno + bow in your inventory or mail from weekly, transmute them and youre set, when traits get changed and meta shifts, spend 50 gems and youre set.
Also Sunspire dropping perfected gear from only doing it on veteran is a joke as well if you ask me.
Gear is way too easy to come by in ESO these days, traits made it interesting at least in previous patches.
And no, rolling the proper trait really isnt that exciting, especially when youre sitting at almost 4k transmute gems in Geodes.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

Sure. And your point is? What constructive criticism can we take from your post? Are you implying gear should drop at a lower quality?

I dont know at least 32 people agree. I will tell you all MMO community sucks majorly since the devaluation of risk vs reward is a common practice. I dont think anyone wants the brutality of corpse runs anymore but jesus itemization and the showering of insignificant items with a purple color in the name has ruined the experience .

Tandor · June 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

They want everything, right away, with no obstacles to overcome, and then they are still not, because getting showered in rewards somehow doesnt feel special enough, so they demand more and more, because surely if these blue items you get for free now dont make me happy, I am sure free epic/Legendary Items will...

...you forget, they want it all account-wide too, because spending the effort twice for an second character seems too much of a bother to 'em...

Not only that, but they want it on the other servers and platforms too. Then they'll come here to complain how the game and the developers are so bad that they're canceling their subscriptions so they can freeload - because we know that most who do talk about canceling subscriptions don't actually consider the game so bad that they're going to stop playing it - even tho' they claim it is "literally unplayable".

Ratzkifal · June 2019

Generation instant gratification aka generation I don't want my MMO to be my second job. There is a reason why so many formerly addicted people say that WoW robbed them of their youth and it's because the game used to be far more time consuming. Now I can actually play ESO alongside other games and I think that's great.

Jeremy · June 2019

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Generation "Instant Gratification" ruined MMORPGs

It's a factor.

But really... youtube and the proliferation of the internet was what ruined mmo's.

Back in the early days of mmo's, there was an advantage to exploration and finding locations. Knowing your way around a "dungeon" was enough to get you in a group. Now it's "check youtube" as the default. Boss fight? Check youtube. etc.

Overall, I don't blame "youtube" or "the internet" though. It's the developers that didn't account for the fact that any game with enough users would have *spoilers* propagated about.

I miss that quality too. It made MMORPGs more interesting when experienced players were sought out for their knowledge of the game. Now it's just go watch a video.

But to the OP's point generally - I believe there is some truth to it. MMORPGs are not what they used to be and I do believe catering to this new generation has a lot to do with it. Though I feel the primary cause is developers figured out they could make more money by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Why bother with improving the quality of game play if you can just churn out sloppy, shallow content with a cash store that sells cute pets and make a fortune?

Most video game companies are run by corporations these days - not artists with a vision. So they are going to gravitate toward what ever method makes them and their shareholders the most money. Which means as little investment as possible to make the most money as possible. It's basically what I call the Wal Mart effect. Quality is not the goal. Maximizing your profit is. And this approach has had a negative impact on a lot more than just MMORPGs. I'd say it's a global trend that has infected nearly ever facet of our society.

zaria · June 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Classic WoW will be available 27Aug19.

Cost of making an item blue was some hundred gold back then VR14 was max.

Granted ESO back then had way larger issues.
For wow its simply item level inflation.

TheShadowScout · June 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

If you say people who want alts only have one additional one, then you are either trolling or truly ignorant.

Try "sarcastic".
As in "they wouldn't even want to do the effort a second time, let alone for every single one one of their alts, and thus whine about how they should get everything account wide at no extra effort or cost on the forums"
My apologies if that was unclear in this context.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

In SWTOR some people are curious enough about the various twists in the storyline to have literally scores AND they youtube the results for others so other people don't have to grind all the paths.

I know. I was one of them, twelve characters before I got a new grafic card that didn't play nice with SWTOR, and switched to ESO anyhow...

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

If you don't understand the community that wants alts, do not presume to speak for them.

And the thing about this - wanting alts has NOTHING to do with wanting everything account wide.
I have a bunch of characters, and would benefit -greatly- from more account wide stuff... yet argue against it whenever I see the "gimme crowd" whine how they want it.

Because I for one believe that if you want something for an alt, you should spend the effort on that alt. No matter if its levels, exploration, guild advancement, crafting research, skyshards, riding training, alliance rank or archievements... and I am willing to spend the effort, and wait until I get it done instead of whining how I deserve it account wide because "reasons".

And hey, if its too much of a bother to anyone to put in the time and spend the effort... then they didn't really want it that much anyhow, right?

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

False. Many achievements will NEVER be finished on one char, such as many of the collectibles, better to group those amongst account or allow trading of the item. Please stop distorting and misrepresenting everything others say or want.

Wrong.
They will only never be finished if you refuse to spend the effort.
If you do take the time and do the thing (whatever the thing is), then you finish the achievement. And boy does that feel like an -achievement- when you do for some of them! (though it would be nice to get a leg up on the trophy collections... I totally would be tempted to buy a crown store thingie that raises the trophy drop rate chance for a while for "hunting trips"... still no ectoplasm drop after hundreds of ghosts!)
And lookie here, you even unlock the dye for your whole account...
...and yet some -still- whine how they should get the achievement marked as "completed" even on their newbie alts they just made yesterday.

And I believe that is a sense of entitlement I cannot agree with. So I don't. And get snarky about it every now and then.