How Nightblades Gained Damage in Elsweyr Patch - Guide to Vulnerability Calculations in PvP

usmguy1234 · June 2019

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Yep. To me its been funny to see some people went all "rip nb" and all i saw was some changes on its gameplay and some nice buffs what comes to pvp.

The Silence on Incap change was weird though, should have just kept the old one and not spend all that effort trying weird things with it. Potato killer ulti now though, against those who dont know about it and just melt while not know to breakfree fast from it.

But yeh, good nbs are wrecking face in pvp as before, or even better. NB tanks on pve were buffed a lot too. Nice side bonus to happen positively for once.

It's amazing though that so many people dropped playing nightblade at least on xbox. I would say the population has easily halved and by that same amount magsorcs have increased in population.

Khenzy · June 2019

So correct me if I'm wrong.

The end result is Nightblades got massively buffed with a 15% damage reduction and a heal (from Relentless Focus) and no nerf in damage?

TheRealSniker · June 2019

@Khenzy
Loss of major defile and minor endurance is still a big hit to NBs kit, also the minor vuln isnt anywhere as easy to use for Magicka players and stam players wont even have a constant uptime of the debuff as they did with minor berserk and major fracture.
It for sure is a nerf, but more so a tweak.

susmitds · June 2019

Khenzy wrote: »

So correct me if I'm wrong.

The end result is Nightblades got massively buffed with a 15% damage reduction and a heal (from Relentless Focus) and no nerf in damage?

Basically NBs traded 10% stamina recovery + 1 bar slot for 15% damage reduction(the heal is useless).

Dunning_Kruger · June 2019

and they gained just enough tankyness for thogard to play one LuL

Nevto · June 2019

how do youre bars look like this patch?

grannas211 · June 2019

Ambush still feels terrible in use to me though

Vlad9425 · June 2019

NB just isn't as fun to play anymore imo. It feels like there's just something off this patch. I jumped on my Stam sorc and my new necro and had a much better experience with them than I got with my NB. Just my opinion though...

mursie · June 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

how do i know you're telling the truth

The build I tested it with had the exact same offensive stats each test, I only ever changed my shoulder piece from 1x slimecraw to 1x bloodspawn with the exact same trait and glyph.
Just so I could obtain all these numbers.

All the numbers are posted in the description, you can do the % difference calculations yourself for more accurate numbers as I rounded all of them up or down. 5 = +

My target never changed its build or CP of any sorts nor did he use any defensive proc sets such as bloodspawn to make the testing as accurate as possible.

If you do not believe me you can go over and test it yourself and come back to me saying I was right.
I would not lie to myself as I am also very happy about the results.

i did test - and this isn't true. minor vuln is about the same as major fracture.. actually slightly less.

SidraWillowsky · June 2019

red_emu wrote: »

Hmmm.... Nerf Sorc then?

YES ALWAYS

master_vanargand · June 2019

However, Necromancer is the strongest

Blinkin8r · June 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Wow I wonder who on here said during the pts cycle once they got minor vulnerability that it was just as powerful and it just had to slightly tweek what it was doing in pvp? Yep this guy.

Youre twisting my words, I said minor vulnerability is stronger than minor berserk and it is appreciated but putting it on such a horrible skill which is ambush is a mistake, which I still agree, while I realized how strong vulnerabilities in PvP really are, ambush is still a clunky and unreliable way of application.

Agree with this 100%. Hate ambush. The only time I slot it is if I'm bombing and there are a lot of snares on the ground and need to get in quick. Even then it performs worse than any other skill with lag.

ll_Rev · June 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Yep. To me its been funny to see some people went all "rip nb" and all i saw was some changes on its gameplay and some nice buffs what comes to pvp.

The Silence on Incap change was weird though, should have just kept the old one and not spend all that effort trying weird things with it. Potato killer ulti now though, against those who dont know about it and just melt while not know to breakfree fast from it.

But yeh, good nbs are wrecking face in pvp as before, or even better. NB tanks on pve were buffed a lot too. Nice side bonus to happen positively for once.

It's amazing though that so many people dropped playing nightblade at least on xbox. I would say the population has easily halved and by that same amount magsorcs have increased in population.

because magsorc is the strongest class?

Dojohoda · June 2019

Thanks for the information.

I quit using Teleport (morphs) when, too often and not purposely, I would find myself on the wrong side of a keep door. I didn't want to get reported, so I dropped it.

I might try it again while learning nightblade class (again).

TheRealSniker · June 2019

mursie wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

how do i know you're telling the truth

The build I tested it with had the exact same offensive stats each test, I only ever changed my shoulder piece from 1x slimecraw to 1x bloodspawn with the exact same trait and glyph.
Just so I could obtain all these numbers.

All the numbers are posted in the description, you can do the % difference calculations yourself for more accurate numbers as I rounded all of them up or down. 5 = +

My target never changed its build or CP of any sorts nor did he use any defensive proc sets such as bloodspawn to make the testing as accurate as possible.

If you do not believe me you can go over and test it yourself and come back to me saying I was right.
I would not lie to myself as I am also very happy about the results.

i did test - and this isn't true. minor vuln is about the same as major fracture.. actually slightly less.

While Minor Berserk becomes just as strong in nCP as Minor Vulnerability, Major Fracture still stays behind those both buffs.
Therefor I cannot support your claim unless you provide me some solid numbers and explenations on how and where you tested it.

TheRealSniker · June 2019

grannas211 wrote: »

Ambush still feels terrible in use to me though

Takes some time to get used to, but I agree sometimes the skill feels useless.

Drako_Ei · June 2019

If you are a ganker crying about minor bersel, just slot camo hunter, extra weapon damage, minor bersek

BlueRaven · June 2019

kylewwefan wrote: »

I’d have to agree it made logical sense. In PvE, fracture is always gonna be given to you by the tank; minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer; and minor vulnerability may or may not be applied?

Not all PvE is done in groups.

Shadowasrial · June 2019

So what if you combine minor vulnerability with major fracture and minor berserk via slimecraw and reapers mark?

ATomiX96 · June 2019

Shadowasrial wrote: »

So what if you combine minor vulnerability with major fracture and minor berserk via slimecraw and reapers mark?

then you have successfully wasted 2 gear slots and one skill slot for PvP.

thankyourat · June 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Yep. To me its been funny to see some people went all "rip nb" and all i saw was some changes on its gameplay and some nice buffs what comes to pvp.

The Silence on Incap change was weird though, should have just kept the old one and not spend all that effort trying weird things with it. Potato killer ulti now though, against those who dont know about it and just melt while not know to breakfree fast from it.

But yeh, good nbs are wrecking face in pvp as before, or even better. NB tanks on pve were buffed a lot too. Nice side bonus to happen positively for once.

It's amazing though that so many people dropped playing nightblade at least on xbox. I would say the population has easily halved and by that same amount magsorcs have increased in population.

The major defile is what’s really killing stamblade. The problem is nightblades don’t have a way to land multiple burst abilities into 1GCD so without the defile a well built player can just shrug off your damage because of the defensive meta.

The reason all the stamblades have left Xbox though is because of the snipe nerfs. From my experience almost all nightblades on Xbox were snipe spammers.

LordTareq · June 2019

Khenzy wrote: »

So correct me if I'm wrong.

The end result is Nightblades got massively buffed with a 15% damage reduction and a heal (from Relentless Focus) and no nerf in damage?

No it's a nerf. Minor vulnerability can also be gained from weapon enchant (albeit low uptime) and slotting ambush requires A: a skill slot, B: using it as your charge while it has a major downside compared to the other charges: the 2-handed charge or even the 1-handed shield charge are much better in that they are instant. Ambush on the other hand only triggers after a short cast-time, which means quite often people will move just out of range or out of LOS and it fails. Additionally it does less burst damage by itself than the 2-hander charge, and it doesn't snare or stun.

Iskiab · June 2019

thankyourat wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Yep. To me its been funny to see some people went all "rip nb" and all i saw was some changes on its gameplay and some nice buffs what comes to pvp.

The Silence on Incap change was weird though, should have just kept the old one and not spend all that effort trying weird things with it. Potato killer ulti now though, against those who dont know about it and just melt while not know to breakfree fast from it.

But yeh, good nbs are wrecking face in pvp as before, or even better. NB tanks on pve were buffed a lot too. Nice side bonus to happen positively for once.

It's amazing though that so many people dropped playing nightblade at least on xbox. I would say the population has easily halved and by that same amount magsorcs have increased in population.

The reason all the stamblades have left Xbox though is because of the snipe nerfs. From my experience almost all nightblades on Xbox were snipe spammers.

I think this is true on PC-NA as well. Saw some glass canon Stamblades for a bit after that thread about bow Stamblades got bumped to the top of the BG forums, most got wrecked pretty badly and they disappeared again.

LordTareq · June 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Yep. To me its been funny to see some people went all "rip nb" and all i saw was some changes on its gameplay and some nice buffs what comes to pvp.

The Silence on Incap change was weird though, should have just kept the old one and not spend all that effort trying weird things with it. Potato killer ulti now though, against those who dont know about it and just melt while not know to breakfree fast from it.

But yeh, good nbs are wrecking face in pvp as before, or even better. NB tanks on pve were buffed a lot too. Nice side bonus to happen positively for once.

It's amazing though that so many people dropped playing nightblade at least on xbox. I would say the population has easily halved and by that same amount magsorcs have increased in population.

The reason all the stamblades have left Xbox though is because of the snipe nerfs. From my experience almost all nightblades on Xbox were snipe spammers.

I think this is true on PC-NA as well. Saw some glass canon Stamblades for a bit after that thread about bow Stamblades got bumped to the top of the BG forums, most got wrecked pretty badly and they disappeared again.

Bow simply doesn't do enough damage in PvP to use it it as anything but a support weapon. After the opening burst from stealth which is decent but not enough to kill anyone not completely clueless, you will have to either kite or switch to melee. If you don't melee you can only use light attack + poison injection/scatter shot/arrow spray all of which do pitiful damage compared to all main instant cast damage skills used by any melee or magic ranged specs.

BlueRaven · June 2019

LordTareq wrote: »

Bow simply doesn't do enough damage in PvP to use it it as anything but a support weapon.

Actually bow doesn’t do enough damage, period.

In pve the rotation is a rain of arrows and caltrops, then switch to a different weapon.

People spammed snipe, yes, but really there is no other solid shot type ability in the weapon tree. I mean from range with a bow, what other direct single target attack is there? Just spam heavy or light attack’s?

Destruent · June 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I’d have to agree it made logical sense. In PvE, fracture is always gonna be given to you by the tank; minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer; and minor vulnerability may or may not be applied?

Not all PvE is done in groups.

There is exactly one place in PvE where those changes matter and which is not done in a group: vMSA
And this content is heavily outdated and not made for the DPS we have nowadys....

BlueRaven · June 2019

Destruent wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I’d have to agree it made logical sense. In PvE, fracture is always gonna be given to you by the tank; minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer; and minor vulnerability may or may not be applied?

Not all PvE is done in groups.

There is exactly one place in PvE where those changes matter and which is not done in a group: vMSA
And this content is heavily outdated and not made for the DPS we have nowadys....

So fracture is NOT "always gonna be given to you by the tank" and neither will "minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer". Got it. Your OPINON of something being outdated is irrelevant especially as VMA still drops best in slot gear.

If we were to say take away self heals from a class and give the excuse 'well a healer will be giving you heals and a tank will protecting you from damage, so it's not a nerf', the argument would be laughable on its face.

NB's had the ability to do something, that thing was taken away, that's a nerf, plain and simple. Saying another class will give it to you is just being disingenuous at best. And it also does not help the times in trials where you have to take a portal to another instance and burn down a mob in a timely manner. You don't always have the benefit of having a tank or healer go through the portal with you.

Your argument basically is, "NBs play great, as long as there are other people around to pick up the classes shortcomings".

srnm · June 2019

What OP tells me is that skilled players who know their class will figure things out and find a way to be effective.

The fact that people report a reduction in the number of snipe-blades is a really good thing and we should thank the game devs for raising the skill cap on this playstyle. You can still bow gank if you want to - but you need to do vBRP and have patience and some skill to make the playstyle work now.

But open world is all AOEs and AOE ultis.
NBs seem to be less suited to where open world is heading - although the buff to power extraction is real...

oh, and #buffmagblade, ty

LeagueTroll · June 2019

Ashtaris wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks2Bs0vmLPk

The numbers have been posted in the description again.
TL;DR Nightblades lost about 0,1% Damage because Minor Vulnerability is just as much damage as Major Fracture and Minor Berserk combined.
All of this is proven by my testing.

In looking at your signature (vHOF World Record 2018, All Hard Mode clears, Flawless Conqueror, etc.), you are the type that don’t have a problem adjusting in getting the same DPS numbers you had before. Many of the rest of us take longer to adapt.

I don’t think he talking about pve.

Wing · June 2019

but,

but,

but muh NB nerfs, muh rip NP posts

meh ill cry anyway, see if we cant get some buffs outa dis.