Spartabunny08 wrote: »

For the first time I'm ahead of the nerf. Looks like werewolf tanks just became relevant. Seems tanks don't crowd control anymore, what is the point. Now everyone just runs werewolves no need for crowd control with werewolves everything just dies. Been enjoying very much my DK werewolf tank build, a lot more than the necro I'm trying now. I didn't even know about the crowd control change because necro doesn't have any at least in that direction I'm aware of. Wrt are they doing? Werewolf tank it is then, was just a personal fun thing for myself didn't see this coming lol.

Sovngarde dies a little each time a tank shifts into werewolf form. 😳

BejaProphet wrote: »

There has to be room for us to say, “Hey, this is a really bad move for tanking,” without everybody acting like we are declaring the apocalypse.

That's fair.

Why do they keep giving NPCs immunity to things, but force us to sit through entire NPC CC animations before break-free will activate and possibly still get CCed from some NPCs even when we have immunity?

John_Falstaff wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

No one is talking about this nerf in particular, i talk about all nerfs.

That was to @Druid40. ^^ And about tanks getting closeted in their guilds, that was about all nerfs in general. I think that more nerfs tanks get, the less incentive to run with pugs, and the game's poorer for that. The experience on voice chat with guildies ("oh goodness, can't root that, folks, switch damage there") can be so much less daunting than the prospect of that burdening group chat with pugs ("tank, why u die to beetles" - "well folks, ZOS nerfed me, you better try to burn them" - "never did it like that, just survive better"), not every tank's having fun tanking that way. Tank is a social beast.

You are very right on that. I dont like to pug on my dps or really my healer. But my tank I dont mind it. Atleast didnt used to
I could control the run and control the adds. I could group what was needed and hold the problem adds. Dps that dont know what to attack I could guide with my ability to control. If someone goes down and there is a mob of adds then I can hold them for another to get the res. But now that stuns and roots have been nerfed I cant. I have spent time testing different methods to hopefully find a solution. Stuns or slows do not slow correctly. After a root there is no ability to slow them that works well enough to keep them even slightly grouped up. So when one person does go down or isnt survivable enough and there is not enough time to taunt each add individually there is a good chance of a wipe. Or atleast the dps and healer going down. I am normally able to res atleast one downed person but when. I cant keep anything off that person. They dont have a chance to live. This puts me at a point of not wanting to pug due to the fact that it creates difficult issues. When most newer players done use a mic or chat there is no way to guide them. Now that there is added difficulty with newer people experienced tanks will not be there to guide them as often. Increasing difficulty for newer players who then dont understand what is going on and then leave the game because they cant create a social good experience. The new 2.5million players that have supposedly joined in the last year will start to diminish. As I have previously stated this nerf to our ccs destroyed my favorite part about tanking. Also destroyed my good ability to help teach and guide new players I come across.

Daus wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

The woes of endgame PvE isn't about completion it's about leaderboards. PvE balancing should take a backseat to PvP balancing since imbalances in PvP are way more destructive than imbalances in PvE.

A lot of PvEers like to use PvP balancing as an excuse for their incompetence when the issue is their build, skill, or team composition.

And you wanna hear the beauty of losing power in PvE? The other trials guilds you're competing against also lost power.

Where in this game has it ever been about mainly pvp. In all the years I have played I have never met anyone who started to play for the pvp part of the game. As a matter of fact the complaining from pve players that you hear playing the game comes from 2 places. Glitches in pve content and then the changes to skills or classes due to pvp. If pvp is the whole point of this game as you are stating then why add more areas of pve creating a bigger map. Pvp area has changed yes but never really grown to new bigger areas. If there is to be a balance for the game it is time for a change. A change to how pve content and pvp content keep affecting each other. The pvp and pve areas already have differences in your character depending on what you are in. Considering the fact that pve is truly larger in the game pvp should not keep changing it. Pvp players rarely spend money on the game but are getting all the changes.

Most of the people I know that have been here since the beginning got this game for the PvP. This game was originally marketed for PvP players; it was the whole focus in the beginning. Then they started focusing on the PvE community more than the PvP community; almost exclusively.

That's what we call a bait and switch.

Do most of the people you know represent the whole ESO community? This is an Elder Scrolls Game, from whose most fanbase comes from Oblivion/Skyrim - single player PVE games. Not to mention most of the DLC's/expansions are PvE focused.

stpdmonkey wrote: »

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Pvp players complain the most. Therefore they get the changes. Which really makes no sense. Almost all the pvp players I know do not even have eso+ or pay for much of anything. But since they are the ones who voice opinions they win. Us pve players roll with the changes. This tanking cc screw is the first time I'm truly voicing my opinion. I do hope that zos figures out what players actually matter. All pve players I know have spent 100$s of dollars on in game items because we love the game and the stuff created. But everyone is upset about skill changes and stuff. I have seen alot of people angry enough to leave after years of playing. This game turns into an investment for pve players.

Now hold on a minute here...

I was with you on this until you started in on this silliness. Enough. Most end game players are pretty invested in both PvE and PvP, so you can't just lump us all into one category or the other. I've spent stupid amounts of money on this game, as have other members of my PvP guild, who also happen to be avid end-game PvPers. There was a huge problem in Cyrodil, namely that Talons had no cooldown and any trashcan smart enough and lazy enough to roll a Mag DK could just spam Talons and whips at you in rapid succession, and there was almost nothing you could do about it, unless RNG was kind enough to let you use your full stam to break free in spite of the bug that ignores your stam pool and keeps you rooted. It was trash gameplay and needed to be addressed.

I play in Cyrodil and overland pretty equally, although I tend to spend more time raiding than killing players these days (I earned my respite after 3 years of only PvPing), and I've got the perspective of seeing it from both sides. I have a DK tank, and I feel the pain of losing this part of the skill, and I don't like it either. In spite of that, it needed to change, and unfortunately, in typical heavy-handed Zos fashion, it received a pretty uncreative, one dimensional change. I don't care what Zos has said in the past. We need an AoE taunt. People change, and companies change their minds every day. There are plenty of skills they could pop it onto (Pulsar on Ice Staff effect?) that would still force tanks to make a gear decision in order to use it, and make it available to all classes.

Blaming other players for the mistakes of game devs is just stupid, and you don't seem like a stupid player. Don't go down that path.

It clearly states "Previously, Immobilizes were an overbearing tool that completely shut down builds with lower Stamina pools, and could keep them from moving for extremely long periods of time" that is a straight quote from their patch notes. So please explain to me how that did not come from pvp complaining.

Agreed. They dont seem to want to ever separate pvp and pve. I go into bgs on my pve dps and do rather well honestly. I dont go in often but the times I do once a month or so I do ok. But in the end changes for zos are easier to do across all play so they do. Instead of caring about the difference for players it seems to be whatever is cheapest. I miss the days that quality of game for the players was important. They always need to make money still which I understand. But it seems it's all about money for zos. I want to be able to make a toon build it the way I like and not have to change it monthly. My tank is my main and this change has definately made me the most upset. My crowd control is the fun part of a tank. Working to control the situation for my group and help dps do the best they can. That's my job as a tank. For 4 years that has been my focus. Find the best way to move adds and place them. Discover how to limit the dps. What hits hard and I need to protect against or protect my team against. Now I am having teammates die to situations that they normally wouldnt have had any problems. I am still working on new ways to solve this but at this point I got nothing.