Necro bounty system is bad.

Thorvik_Tyrson · June 2019

Maulkin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The system is GREAT and amazing and I want them to expand it to include sorc pets as well. Keep your evil stuffs out of my towns.

But if you hate evil stuff so much, you should delight in forcing them to do good things against their will. Not only that but having to obey mortals like us is a fate worse than death for daedra. A real enemy of evil would summon more of them.
Edit; This is a serious topic that impacts gameplay though, if we are okay with this then why not have a class be intentionally OP because it fits with the lore of the class to be stronger than the others?

Oh, don't misunderstand me. My motives have nothing to do with lore at all. I will do anything to get sorc pets out of towns and this is as good a route as any to try and get that to happen. Every day some flappy flap is on top of my writ turnin or crafting station. That has to stop. As players seem incapable of putting them away of their own free will, a lore related enforcement method is as good as any.

Summoning pets is easy but unsummoning them is cumbersome and inconvenient. If there was a key combination for unsummoning, like holding ctrl while pressing the skill button, then I would agree with making them criminal acts. But with the current implementation, I object.

open window with skills, take pet skill and put back on bar - pet unsummoned
you can do this without problem while moving

I know that. That's not cumbersome and inconvenient to you?

"You can do this while moving", yeah but you can't see where you're going because the skills window blocks your field view. And you have to use your mouse to move the skill off your bar and back on.

Compare that to having the pet let's say on number 5 and simply pressing ctrl+5 to unsummon and just 5 to resummon. Not blocking your view, no mouse use, nothing. You can even macro it to a single programmable button on your keyboard/mouse.

In my opinion all pets summoned by skills should be easily unsummoned through key combos anyway, but especially if they're gonna trigger bounty. If I'm approaching a town on my necro and I've had my Mender active, I have to wait for the timer to go away because I can't unsummon them. That's crappy design 101. Improve it and then we can talk.

As a newer player, and trying to be courteous to my other players in town, I try to make sure that I un-summon my combat pets before going into town.

With Rapid riding and my pet on the 5th slot, it unsummons when I mount up. For my warden, its more of a difficulty to unsummon.

What if they made the cities a no-combat pet zone? I.E. like they have no riding zones, make it such that your pet despawns when you enter the town/city?

I also agree with a toggle for prevent illegal activities while in town.
Personally I'd like a toggle for preventing all combat abilities while in town. Nothing is more annoying to me than when I press R thinking that I am going to make some item, and my Ultimate goes off.

There are things that the Devs could do to make it easier in town, but I get the impression that at least some of them like to make it more difficult for you to stay on the strait and narrow. Example: all of the items in the crafting area and around the writ turn in area in Alinor/Summerset. It's like they want you to press E on an item and have the guards gank you while you were just trying to turn in your daily writ, and you stole something by accident. This is why I think we may not get these types of toggles implemented.

Jcarson0408 · June 2019

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Yes please let's have everything cookie cutter no class distinction at all, I tip my hat to the devs for making this class a little different.

If you think the bounty system is the only thing separating necro from the other classes then you don't play the game or you are being disingenuous.

Tasear wrote: »

Deadra are technically neither good or bad according to lore so it's not wrong to summon them.

Most undead aren't evil either, they are just doing what they are told or what their instincts tell them to do like an animal. No one would argue that is a reason necromancy is okay. Also the idea daedra aren't "technically" evil is misleading, as they are only following whatever their sphere of Oblivion emcompasses, however when most of the spheres are things like brutality destruction or murder, they they are pretty damn evil. Even daedric princes who don't have spheres associated with evil things do things that are quite evil to further their goal. Merida who is usually thought of as very good has done evil things, she hid Umaril the Unfeathered in her realm and sent her minions to assist his mission. That didn't even have anything to do with killing the undead.

Tasear wrote: »

I like it. I just hang out in coldharbor when something missed up.

Okay. WHY do you like it? It is not a mechanic that does anything fun. It isn't like you get to fight the guards. This question is for everyone who likes it, WHY do you want this in the game? What joy are you possibly getting from this inconsistent with the game's lore mechanic that you don't actually interact with in an interesting way, you are penalized for doing something EVERY OTHER CLASS can do no problem, use all their skills. If they made necros intentionally OP because necromancy is a path to power people would be losing their minds. If they were going to be this against the minions they shouldn't have been added at all.

caperon · June 2019

The justice system is a half assed mecanic that should be removed, clearly an idea from someone not at zos anymore so they never finished it and now its just an extra goldsink and an anoyance. Get rid of it.

CambionDaemon · June 2019

Expand it to ALL classes, make it a decree from on high.

'From this day day forth all fighting/casting and summoning of any type will be made illegal on Nirn.

Xerikten · June 2019

i am trying to figure out which of these worthless criminal act spells you people are actually using to get a bounty. you only need 2-4 spells to kill stuff and NONE are a criminal act.

Nephthys · June 2019

I wouldn't mind it so much if it made sense. A few times where a quest handin has been close to where the battle was, the town that I just saved from certain death start squarking because my loyal minions followed me in calling "don't leave us mumma". I mean we just saved an entire town but that is completely forgotten. Bigotted lot that they are!

LeHarrt91 · June 2019

I had a summon up and walked near a roaming merchant and got a bounty

Jcarson0408 · June 2019

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

I had a summon up and walked near a roaming merchant and got a bounty

People seem to be missing this. It not just summoning in the middle of town, you can just as easily get a bounty in the wilderness because of a traveling NPC or one near enemies.

Xerikten wrote: »

i am trying to figure out which of these worthless criminal act spells you people are actually using to get a bounty. you only need 2-4 spells to kill stuff and NONE are a criminal act.

I am trying to figure out which part of why should this class be singled out in a way that doesn't add anything to the game is hard for you to grasp. If you are going to be snarky without offering anything to the topic please stop.

Jaimeh · June 2019

I've played with my necromancer every day since the launch, and besides one incidence on the PTS (when I first checked out the class and cast a skill out of excitement in the starting area

), I never once had a problem with bounties due to using skills (accidentally stealing stuff is another story...). I don't see why you would use the criminal act skills in a city anyway, and I think it's nice the game is trying to make something different for this class, especially for those who are levelling a new character for the 15+ time. Even if, as you say, it's legal to practice it in some parts, it would be hard for the devs to implement justice system restrictions in just some areas, and if that feels weird to you, frankly it would be weirder not to have that system in place at all, and have necromancers raising corpses without any NPCs raising an eyebrow. If anything it's great the game didn't take a lazy way out, and tailored reactions to a class to be in line with the lore--I personally appreciate that detail from the developing team.

Lord_Eomer · June 2019

I never duel in town on my necro so do not care about this!

Jcarson0408 · June 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I never duel in town on my necro so do not care about this!

It is NOT just in cities, what is so hard to grasp about this?

Jaimeh wrote: »

I've played with my necromancer every day since the launch, and besides one incidence on the PTS (when I first checked out the class and cast a skill out of excitement in the starting area ), I never once had a problem with bounties due to using skills (accidentally stealing stuff is another story...). I don't see why you would use the criminal act skills in a city anyway, and I think it's nice the game is trying to make something different for this class, especially for those who are levelling a new character for the 15+ time. Even if, as you say, it's legal to practice it in some parts, it would be hard for the devs to implement justice system restrictions in just some areas, and if that feels weird to you, frankly it would be weirder not to have that system in place at all, and have necromancers raising corpses without any NPCs raising an eyebrow. If anything it's great the game didn't take a lazy way out, and tailored reactions to a class to be in line with the lore--I personally appreciate that detail from the developing team.

Read about about is not just being cities AGAIN. Read that it is not in line with lore AGAIN. It is just as weird to have it as it is not. Why do you think this hasn't been a thing in ANY other Elder Scrolls game?
Why should people being forced to RP?
What do you gain from this being in the game that you would lose if it were removed?

Minyassa · June 2019

I like it. It makes people actually have to plan and think about their actions instead of just getting into a routine and playing with the controller instead of awareness. I wish there was more like it for other classes. I would totally support having to check to see if the coast was clear before I summoned my daedric pets. I would be all for making werewolf shifting illegal--vampire feeding already is. I like the idea of having to keep track of where you are and what's around you so that the game can't be sleepwalked through with a bunch of button-mashing. That, and the entire point to necromancers is that they are the edgelord class and the only reason to be one is sheer naughtiness. If they took away the penalty, it would just be a bunch of stinky people running around dropping maggots everywhere pretending they were bad when no one cared. Talk about being forced to role-play! This takes the role-playing out of it, it's done for you and the NPCs make sure that being bad is actually bad.

Jcarson0408 · June 2019

Minyassa wrote: »

I like it. It makes people actually have to plan and think about their actions instead of just getting into a routine and playing with the controller instead of awareness. I wish there was more like it for other classes. I would totally support having to check to see if the coast was clear before I summoned my daedric pets. I would be all for making werewolf shifting illegal--vampire feeding already is. I like the idea of having to keep track of where you are and what's around you so that the game can't be sleepwalked through with a bunch of button-mashing. That, and the entire point to necromancers is that they are the edgelord class and the only reason to be one is sheer naughtiness. If they took away the penalty, it would just be a bunch of stinky people running around dropping maggots everywhere pretending they were bad when no one cared. Talk about being forced to role-play! This takes the role-playing out of it, it's done for you and the NPCs make sure that being bad is actually bad.

Thank you for giving a clear reason you like it that doesn't conflict with reality. But I still have to ask why people should be forced to RP? RP can be fun but I don't want to be RPing all the time.
I don't want to come off as being combative with you, everything you have presented as fact has been correct, and your opinions clear. But the question is one I needed to ask.

Stonen80ub17_ESO · June 2019

Because it's a Role Playing Game and Necromancy is bad Mmmkay.

leepalmer95 · June 2019

Sorcerers can summon daedra e.g. demons but I can't summon a skeleton. Nice logic.

It's just an annoyance and unnecessary addition.

Any arguement about lore went with one tamrial update.

Michaelkeir · June 2019

I leveled my magcro doing mainly zone story quest and overland content. I can count on one hand how many times I received a bounty using my necro skills and those where due to me not paying attention to what bar I'm on.

In towns with quest I use light attack weaved into flaming skull weaved back into light attack. Mobs are dead and no bounty. Group of mobs....wall of elements and graveyard with LA....dead mobs and no bounty.

The devs have stated that this is just the beginning. Testing the waters if you will. They will be adding more to the justice system in the future. I take that to mean being or using vampire skills near NPCs or towns. Same for Werewolves and hopefully sorc pets in towns to. So those saying Necromancers are being singled out can rest easy, for you will not be alone for long.

As to the question why would most of us want this implemented. Role playing mostly. The lore seems to go back and with with the legaility of Necromancers. But we can at least agree that the worm-cult and mannimarco have caused people to take pause when they see a Necromancer summoning undead. Should be the same with summoning deadra....but as of now its not implemented in the justice system but I suspect that will change with future addition to the system.

GimpyPorcupine · June 2019

Personally, I like the immersion that the bounty on Necro abilities adds. I just keep my criminal skills on one bar, and definitely don't accept duel invites in town.

But I do think that Telvanni-controlled area shouldn't have the bounty applied, since the only people there offended by necromancy are the slaves, and who cares what they think.

NordSwordnBoard · June 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Curious, why are you summoning in town?

Not on purpose - I hit back button in a menu; nothing happens. I hit it again; leave the menu and summon a dead thing to the horror of NPCs. The cause is lag and impatience - One of my bars has no crimes, so I try to stick with that one. Definitely used up my free pardons already being forgetful.

I just jump in the water when I get bounty, the fish that got away because guards don't swim.

Traveling merchants are snitches, I was dueling a friend outside of town and still got a bounty. Wasn't there at the start of the duel... keep an eye roadward, Necroborn.

Mazbt · June 2019

They should disable necro summons in town. Grey out the option, and I think that would be better than pressing the button by accident and getting a bounty.

GimpyPorcupine · June 2019

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Curious, why are you summoning in town?

Not on purpose - I hit back button in a menu; nothing happens. I hit it again; leave the menu and summon a dead thing to the horror of NPCs. The cause is lag and impatience - One of my bars has no crimes, so I try to stick with that one. Definitely used up my free pardons already being forgetful.

I just jump in the water when I get bounty, the fish that got away because guards don't swim.

Traveling merchants are snitches, I was dueling a friend outside of town and still got a bounty. Wasn't there at the start of the duel... keep an eye roadward, Necroborn.

You can't slot criminal skills on the same button/key as the back button. Just like how you watch what you slot there if you have "Prevent attacking innocents" turned off.

LadySinflower · June 2019

I haven't played my magcro yet enough to see if the justice system will really inconvenience me. But I'll tell you what does bother me. Dueling in crowded areas that are the only way the rest of us have to get through the area. Sorc and warden pets in my way at crafting stations and writ turn in locations, or just flapping around/ taking up the space inside small buildings. People who jump around crowded thoroughfares spamming obnoxious spells. Other people who decide to chase me and/or others for no apparent reason, throwing spells at us, firing staves, or swiping their weapons at us. I don't care if it doesn't damage me. It's annoying and obnoxious. One orc was at a dolmen where I was recently swinging his fists at everyone who was waiting for the dolmen to start. So annoying! If necro skills are illegal in towns and near NPCs, so should be some of these other things. If pets are made illegal in towns, make it easier to unsummon them for both PC and console. Give us an option to toggle off any illegal spells or acts while in towns or within reporting distance/ in sight of any NPC that would cause a bounty. Don't make it cumbersome to avoid illegal acts. I understand they want to make us conscious of what we are doing, but don't make it overly difficult to avoid bounties. Singling out one class, to me, is unfair. I don't otherwise have a problem with the justice system.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · June 2019

I know right? I want to play a thief but every darn time I steal something I get attacked by guards! It’s ridiculous. People who don’t steal don’t get attacked! Why should I have to be responsible for choices I’ve made?

Blinkin8r · June 2019

It is kind of annoying. I've accidentally summoned a pet a few times in town just trying to back out of menus.

STEVIL · June 2019

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I like it. It makes people actually have to plan and think about their actions instead of just getting into a routine and playing with the controller instead of awareness. I wish there was more like it for other classes. I would totally support having to check to see if the coast was clear before I summoned my daedric pets. I would be all for making werewolf shifting illegal--vampire feeding already is. I like the idea of having to keep track of where you are and what's around you so that the game can't be sleepwalked through with a bunch of button-mashing. That, and the entire point to necromancers is that they are the edgelord class and the only reason to be one is sheer naughtiness. If they took away the penalty, it would just be a bunch of stinky people running around dropping maggots everywhere pretending they were bad when no one cared. Talk about being forced to role-play! This takes the role-playing out of it, it's done for you and the NPCs make sure that being bad is actually bad.

Thank you for giving a clear reason you like it that doesn't conflict with reality. But I still have to ask why people should be forced to RP? RP can be fun but I don't want to be RPing all the time.
I don't want to come off as being combative with you, everything you have presented as fact has been correct, and your opinions clear. But the question is one I needed to ask.

First thing, i think that, like "prevent attacking innocents" there should be a system toggle that can *either* disable the skills when bounty would occur *or* remove the bounty system for your necro. Like the rest of the justice system i think it should boil down to optional - and not optional as in "dont play necro" and so on.

Second, with the bugs currently in place, where bounty is firing off even when in delves and in isolated places that doesn't show until you get into town or get spotted - i am for scrapping the whole thing. After Monday's patch playing the stam necro through quests is masochistic. The decision to bounty their ultimates was, if i speak genrously, ill-conceived

BigBragg · June 2019

This system really doesn't add anything to the game. If I pop a healing specter, boom bounty. Need to fight an enemy for a quest, boom bounty. Just doing main story quests in the first two DC zones and I have already spent thousands of gold. While not a great amount it adds up, and just feels completely unnecessary.

Werewolves in town are fine.
Vampires in town are fine.
Summoning deadra in tow is fine.
Have deadra non-combat pets in town is fine.
Riding undead mounts in town is fine.

This system is wholly inconsistent in the scope of the game in it's totality.

robertbmilesb14_ESO · June 2019

Deadra are not "bad" to summon... They are not "demons" like we say in OUR world.

Drop it already.

Deadra are not summoned by utilizing the soul force/body of another being, especially that of another race of Tamriel.

How many times does this need to be said?

BigBragg · June 2019

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Deadra are not "bad" to summon... They are not "demons" like we say in OUR world.

Drop it already.

Deadra are not summoned by utilizing the soul force/body of another being, especially that of another race of Tamriel.

How many times does this need to be said?

That's why we just let the anchors do their thing...

But let's go with deadra are just as copacetic as aedra. Still leaves 3 more other lore issues from my list.

Then there is the gameplay discussion of it adding nothing valuable to the game.

Jcarson0408 · June 2019

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I know right? I want to play a thief but every darn time I steal something I get attacked by guards! It’s ridiculous. People who don’t steal don’t get attacked! Why should I have to be responsible for choices I’ve made?

Stealing in the game comes with benefits (I.E. things you can sell for a decent amount of gold, in some cases even exclusive motifs and furning objects) and applies to ALL classes.

To the people who think this is just something I am dealing with a lot? I've had a problem twice with NPCs in the wilderness. That is still twice too many considering it adds nothing to the game aside from forcing RP on people who may not want to be bothered.

_Salty_ · June 2019

The system is poorly thought out. The pets are temporary so the only reason you would actually summon one near a town would be by accident.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma · June 2019

Since people LOVED the lore friendly bounty system for necromancer class I suggest we implement more lore friendly/RP additions to the game!
Here is a suggestion. Since Tamriel is in a state of war between alliances I say we make all pve zones pvp zones so that players can really feel immersed when entering an enemy alliance territory to quest!! This will add so much to the rp element of the game!