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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?
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paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »My mind is blown that no is winning, but maybe not. Guild traders are so corrupted, that who would want to lose that power?
Have you seen the way a hand full of people can control the market price of certain items in a AH game? That is some heavy corruption. Just keep buying up all the items of a certain type and put it back up for the price you set and keep buying any lowballers and people that want it will be forced to pay your price or grind it out themselves, seen it all too often in other games. Even seen that sometimes in ESO but its much harder for them to do that and its not nearly as successful for those that try it, usually they can't keep up with the flow of new items on the multiple different traders and then the new price they have put is too high for most to want to buy it that they rather look for those that still set a decent price and the price setters end up losing money instead. Though obviously they still have some amount of success in ESO as well, but a AH makes it WAY easier for them.3 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Yes, it would be nice to have an economy that everyone can participate in, without obnoxious barriers.
That said, it's never going to happen, so let it go.myskyrim26 wrote: »I've seen the AH in other MMO game. It is good for buyers and really bad for sellers. As in ESO I have to do both - sell and buy - I don't want the AH.
Personally, I find a global AH much easier for me to sell on - but that's probably because I'm not a "seller", just someone trying to quick unload things for some gold. Part of why I don't bother with this game's system - I just want to be able to throw a couple items up every week or two, undercut heavily, and get some extra gold for it. I'm not interested in playing Bloomberg Commodity Trader 2019.
And yeah, from a Buyer perspective, this system blows, since everything is scattered across a billion vendors & loading screens.
The sole, single, actual "good" thing about the Guild Trader system is that it's a massive gold sink.
Everything else about it is either making a system that's hard on the average participant in the economy, or making a system that makes a protected market for the Big Traders.
So I just don't bother, and vendor/destroy all my stuff. (Which, of course, is part of the "protecting the market for the Traders" since it keeps Supply lower than it would otherwise. Every item that we vendor or destroy, is one more thing that's not competing with their sales of that same item.)
This is just patently false. The barrier to entry may be perceived to be lower in a global auction house, but in reality the barrier there is absolute.
The only barrier in ESO commerce to sell in a store is to join a guild. There are hundreds of no fee trader guilds and if you REALLY don't like it, just find 10 like minded people and create a guild to get a store for yourself.
The barrier is social I guess, so if you hate people then you are not going to have a good time, but if you hate people why are you playing a mmo?
Misanthropy is my middle name.1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.
Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.
The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...
No mods on consoles and TTC works maybe 10% of the time for them. PC is not the only, nor maybe the majority of players.
I have ESO on PS4 and occasionally hop on to play that account, too. The trade prices there are absurdly high. They're much higher than PC due to the lack of mods and TTC.
Which is particularly humorous to me when i look at it. You're right, no mods or TTC on console, and those prices are horrific by comparison.
I'm sure the primary defense is from PC players who aren't seeing just how terrible of a RIP-off this system is due to the price control that they claim to be "impossible" with this system.
No one said impossible, that is a strawman argument. It is harder which is the point, not impossible.
Also would greatly reduce the socialization on the game which is one of the main reasons for guild traders.
When a game goes from individual/small auction structures to a global one it loses a massive social network of player interaction in the process. EQ1 being one of the most egregious examples.
If changing to a global ah reduces socialization, then you all obviously didn't want to socialize that much to begin with. No big loss as far as I'm concerned. You'll find something else to talk about.
You sound a bit anti social to start here. Also an MMO needs mechanisms to create social interaction.
What seems to be your implied premise is that people should just want to socialize. However, those types of people generally will use tools, just for that purpose, like IRC which is infinitely better than an MMO if that is all you are about.
So yes MMOs need mechanisms to encourage socialization, that is kind of the point.Edited by Skwor on June 11, 2019 3:49PM1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really believe the reason that price manipulation in this game is not REALLY possible long term because of perception. History has proven that price manipulation lasts for 1-2 MAXIMUM 3 weeks and then the prices drop because the market dictates the demand.
People see these things going for 500k and that incites a fervor for farming the item to get those prices, so the market value that the conglomerate sets lasts for a little while until the market is flooded at that point and they can't start buying up all the ones at 490 and 480 so it slowly trends down to usually 10-20% above the initial market value.
Which I guess if you are trying to manip the market long term and you can boost income for 3 weeks heavy AND wind up bring the market 10% positive, thats a good thing, but who is playing that long term game?
How does a centralized auction house change this? The perception shifts because it no longer is a range of people and places that are selling the increasingly expensive item, its literally one day there is a range of items, the next day every one is 500k.
If you hit that wall enough times, listing an item and having it sell immediately and then relisted for higher, or grinding for days and days to just have your item sit because its just another item in the sea of the same thing.
No increased farm rate because the perception of time waste is there, the barrier to entry is there and the insurmountable task of being someone who has unlimited funds is not fun.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Sennecca✭✭✭Here's an example of how traders work vs a global AH. A year or so ago, all players recieved the arteum mansion through a global achievement challenge. Instantly the price of culanda laquer went from 1,600 to up to 6,000k as people were making furnishings for their house. By running around however, i was able to run across some deals for 2-3.5k.
In a global auction house system, someone with no time to play would just sell their culanda laquer cheap to make a few coins. There is a very high chance any low prices would immediately be bought up by the market manipulaters. You selling your cheap laquer, just netted them more money as they will now relist it for 10-15k and anyone needing it will be forced to pay that unless they just happened to be searching immediately after you listed. Inflation would be rampant in the game.5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't mind the auction house concept, but I would also be OK if the guild stores were centrally searchable in real time.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. I would not like to see this.
I also would not like to see any more polls on this.4 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Another auction house poll? The system is fine, but needs some work to make it more universally accessible, such as:
Disbanding guild gives trader to 2nd highest bidder.
More stalls in busy zones.
Maybe a ranked trader bid, highest x# of bids get spots instead of individual stalls.
Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...
There are a few reasons we should get one. I work a 40+ hour job as do many others, we pay bills in real life. We play a game to escape reality for a little bit to have fun, but in this game I have to pay "bills" to use the trader guild plus in some guilds sell a certain amount of items. Dues for trader guilds use to be 5k a few weeks ago, then went up to 10k, then went up to 15k a week to use a trader. Soon it will be 20k then be 25k then go up to 30k........ See my point on how this is flawed for most people? The people that like to farm and sell items might not have time to meet guild requirements of selling x amount of dollars or be kicked. We shouldn't have to pay "bills" to use a feature of the game because it is flawed. If I want to sell an item in real life on say eBay I make an account and just sell it, I don't sign up pay them a weekly fee for the ability to sell just one item I want to sell.
How about guild leaders that make multiple fake accounts and have a level 7 toon as the leader of a guild? They make so much money because they run 5+ trader guilds? But people say guild masters don't make a profit....... If they don't make a profit why are they running so many guilds? They do it out of the kindness of their heart?
Or let's talk.about guilds that will buy up entire zones with fake traders so they can set the market for that area. That isn't anything different than an auction house right? Or the fact that you can go all over the world to buy items for cheap then sell them at the monopolized areas were prices are high and you make huge amounts of money just re selling everything you bought for cheap?
Each system has flaws but the difference is with a global auction house it allows everyone the same ability to sell items. In both you can manipulate the system but at least it gives the people that don't make much gold a chance to make gold. This game is like real life, the rich get richer lol.
With a global ah we get 1 set price for an item. With the current system we have the "bad" trader areas that under price their items because they are in a low traffic area. And we have "good" spots where people can buy from those "bad" trader spots and price the item for double to tripple what they bought it for in the "good" trader spots. If we had a global AH it gets rid of this problem of again the rich getting richer because they manipulate the market.
Now let's look at the thing people get worried about with a auction house. Let's say I buy every single spell strategist inferno staff on the market then put them all back on the auction house for insane amounts of gold. Yes I've manipulated the market to drive it up, but guess what? Any smart person can look at the history on that item and see I paid 5k each and tried selling them for 500k each. They can just let my items sit there and wait for someone to just undercut me and drive the market back down making me waste a lot of money on items I'm having trouble moving now. With our current system no one would know that I bought all the inferno staffs to drive the price up.
So please explain to me why you think this system works again?
It works, in so much that cornering the market is almost impossible. If you had read the post you responded to, I agree that some changes should be made to make the market more accesible, and proposed some ways to do so.
It isn't impossible at all to corner the markets on items. Every other week, a new item is targeted and bought up from every vendor by a handful of guilds, and resold at a much, much higher prices to the rest of the server. Any attempt to get that item out cheaper doesn't get through. This is just right off the top of my head. Alchemy was targeted not to long ago. There was no shortage in spawns or more demand. That item was always popular. That was a market buy up, and every time the people in my guilds tried to help stabilize the prices by flooding more into the markets, the same players would come to our vendors within 1 minute and buy them up and sell them 3-5 times over our prices.
What some of these guilds fail to realise is, their excessive greed helps to drive players out of the game. When players find too many of the items in the economy are not within reach, it's not fun for them to play there anymore. I have nothing against guilds making some money. That's fine. They just shouldn't get so extreme, ridiculous, and underhanded about it.
These comments are not aimed at you. It's just the situation as it is.Edited by Arrodisia on June 11, 2019 4:47PM4 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Yes, it would be nice to have an economy that everyone can participate in, without obnoxious barriers.
That said, it's never going to happen, so let it go.myskyrim26 wrote: »I've seen the AH in other MMO game. It is good for buyers and really bad for sellers. As in ESO I have to do both - sell and buy - I don't want the AH.
Personally, I find a global AH much easier for me to sell on - but that's probably because I'm not a "seller", just someone trying to quick unload things for some gold. Part of why I don't bother with this game's system - I just want to be able to throw a couple items up every week or two, undercut heavily, and get some extra gold for it. I'm not interested in playing Bloomberg Commodity Trader 2019.
And yeah, from a Buyer perspective, this system blows, since everything is scattered across a billion vendors & loading screens.
The sole, single, actual "good" thing about the Guild Trader system is that it's a massive gold sink.
Everything else about it is either making a system that's hard on the average participant in the economy, or making a system that makes a protected market for the Big Traders.
So I just don't bother, and vendor/destroy all my stuff. (Which, of course, is part of the "protecting the market for the Traders" since it keeps Supply lower than it would otherwise. Every item that we vendor or destroy, is one more thing that's not competing with their sales of that same item.)
This is just patently false. The barrier to entry may be perceived to be lower in a global auction house, but in reality the barrier there is absolute.
The only barrier in ESO commerce to sell in a store is to join a guild. There are hundreds of no fee trader guilds and if you REALLY don't like it, just find 10 like minded people and create a guild to get a store for yourself.
The barrier is social I guess, so if you hate people then you are not going to have a good time, but if you hate people why are you playing a mmo?
Misanthropy is my middle name.
Then yours is the last advice anyone should consider regarding MMOs and social markets.0 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.
Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.
The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...
No mods on consoles and TTC works maybe 10% of the time for them. PC is not the only, nor maybe the majority of players.
I have ESO on PS4 and occasionally hop on to play that account, too. The trade prices there are absurdly high. They're much higher than PC due to the lack of mods and TTC.
Which is particularly humorous to me when i look at it. You're right, no mods or TTC on console, and those prices are horrific by comparison.
I'm sure the primary defense is from PC players who aren't seeing just how terrible of a RIP-off this system is due to the price control that they claim to be "impossible" with this system.
No one said impossible, that is a strawman argument. It is harder which is the point, not impossible.
Also would greatly reduce the socialization on the game which is one of the main reasons for guild traders.
When a game goes from individual/small auction structures to a global one it loses a massive social network of player interaction in the process. EQ1 being one of the most egregious examples.
If changing to a global ah reduces socialization, then you all obviously didn't want to socialize that much to begin with. No big loss as far as I'm concerned. You'll find something else to talk about.
You sound a bit anti social to start here. Also an MMO needs mechanisms to create social interaction.
What seems to be your implied premise is that people should just want to socialize. However, those types of people generally will use tools, just for that purpose, like IRC which is infinitely better than an MMO if that is all you are about.
So yes MMOs need mechanisms to encourage socialization, that is kind of the point.
Is it really such a strange concept that people would socialize without being given an excuse to do so? You imply that you want to socialize but also suggest that you won't unless someone else creates an artificial reason for you to do so.
I socialize just fine. In fact, I'm doing it right now. I don't even need an excuse
Edited by srfrogg23 on June 11, 2019 3:55PM6 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.
Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.
The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...
No mods on consoles and TTC works maybe 10% of the time for them. PC is not the only, nor maybe the majority of players.
I have ESO on PS4 and occasionally hop on to play that account, too. The trade prices there are absurdly high. They're much higher than PC due to the lack of mods and TTC.
Which is particularly humorous to me when i look at it. You're right, no mods or TTC on console, and those prices are horrific by comparison.
I'm sure the primary defense is from PC players who aren't seeing just how terrible of a RIP-off this system is due to the price control that they claim to be "impossible" with this system.
No one said impossible, that is a strawman argument. It is harder which is the point, not impossible.
Also would greatly reduce the socialization on the game which is one of the main reasons for guild traders.
When a game goes from individual/small auction structures to a global one it loses a massive social network of player interaction in the process. EQ1 being one of the most egregious examples.
If changing to a global ah reduces socialization, then you all obviously didn't want to socialize that much to begin with. No big loss as far as I'm concerned. You'll find something else to talk about.
You sound a bit anti social to start here. Also an MMO needs mechanisms to create social interaction.
What seems to be your implied premise is that people should just want to socialize. However, those types of people generally will use tools, just for that purpose, like IRC which is infinitely better than an MMO if that is all you are about.
So yes MMOs need mechanisms to encourage socialization, that is kind of the point.
Is it really such a strange concept that people would socialize without being given an excuse to do so? You imply that you want to socialize but also suggest that you won't unless someone else creates an artificial reason for you to do so.
I socialize just fine. In fact, I'm doing it right now. I don't even need an excuse
Dude you called yourself out as anti social, I quoted you just above this post. Try to at least be consistent in your position0 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭
Average trader here, and I would like to request that you do not speak on my behalf. Thanks.Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...
That being said, I would quite like to be able to offload some of the junk I have that I do not need. Or sell gear more regularly, as I have a crafter who I have only used so far to supply... Two people, one who I feel paid me fairly, the other who I feel ripped me off. And myself, of course.
With a global AH I could at least start selling a bit every now and then. As it is now, I have no interest in giving my gold to people who don't deserve it in the form of "Donations", just because I don't sell regularly.7 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Average trader here, and I would like to request that you do not speak on my behalf. Thanks.Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...
That being said, I would quite like to be able to offload some of the junk I have that I do not need. Or sell gear more regularly, as I have a crafter who I have only used so far to supply... Two people, one who I feel paid me fairly, the other who I feel ripped me off. And myself, of course.
With a global AH I could at least start selling a bit every now and then. As it is now, I have no interest in giving my gold to people who don't deserve it in the form of "Donations", just because I don't sell regularly.
There are alot of no cost guilds with a trader.7 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Schemering wrote: »eso has a good system; not perfect but good, involving guilds in auctions of multiple traders making guilds desirable and creating vibrant economy... what i don't understand is that every time only one alternative is proposed, an auction house. Where is the creativity... if a creative proposal is made i would be willing to consider it as alternative but not this obsolete idea that would have to be copied from obsolete other games
The functional difference between ESO and a typical auction house is the travel time. Implementing a central auction house that showed offerings from all the guild traders, but required you to wait 5 minutes every time you wanted to look at a new trader's listings, would be the exact same thing. Yet no one would consider that good design. ESO has none of the supporting features (outside of the gold sink via bidding which is a legitimate argument for the system and good game design) that usually accompany localized markets from my experiences.- Can only sell from inventory (I think this is already a thing to be fair, but listing just in case)
- Make all Items BOE
- Can't fast travel between open world areas with BOE items in inventory (traveling to/from dungeons and trials would be fine)
- Use weight restrictions in inventory instead of item count.
- Local Banks (E.g., gear you have in stormhaven is different from gear you have in shornhelm)
- No crafting bag
- Limit Amount of Skill Points One Can Have
- Make crafting more specialized (i.e, the more you focus on combat for a character, the less you'll be able to craft)
- In that same vein the more crafting skills you focus on, the weaker your craftable items are.
- Make everything but monster helms and trial gear craftable (including things like repair kits and lockpicks)
- Rapidly increase how fast gear is destroyed
- Limit Alts
If ESO added even some of these things (adjusted based on the current game of course), then I could see the point. But as it stands, we currently have an auction house with loading screens and limited accessibility. Outside of the gold sink (which again, is good game design), I don't see the point. It feels like being different for the sake of being different, instead of with intent. If you're going to try and be different, go all in.
And for the record, I am not advocating ESO add these things. I know the type of players that a title with Elder Scrolls in the name attracts. These features would never be okay with the playerbase (plus they remove a lot of the game's monetization which is obviously a big no no). They make solo play very difficult and heavily reward groups that work together and coordinate. And we all know requiring people to work together in an mmo is just blasphemy around these parts. I just found it funny that the auction house could be considered obsolete when referencing ESO's system. Considering ESO's system is an auction house with long loading times between the pages and less player accessibility.
@SchemeringEdited by J2JMC on June 11, 2019 4:10PMKnee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
9 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^3 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^
They have the capital, but the point is that they can't do it with a click of a button, no matter how much gold they have, because of the insane legwork required. And that is why you don't see it happening. It can still happen on a few special items, but only for short term profit, and it is very limited.Edited by Jayman1000 on June 11, 2019 4:23PM2 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^
They have the capital, but the point is that they can't do it with a click of a button, no matter how much gold they have, because of the insane legwork required. And that is why you don't see it happening. It can still happen on a few special items, but only for short term profit, and it is very limited.
I was agreeing with you. I meant there are more than a few who could do exactly what you wrote if we had GH
LOL me being one of them.Edited by Skwor on June 11, 2019 4:25PM5 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »No thanks. A single AH leads to item monopolies and price fixing.
So basically ghost guilds that take over the market and leave the rest of the 4,950 people out of trade spots in one area ?3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's an example of how traders work vs a global AH. A year or so ago, all players recieved the arteum mansion through a global achievement challenge. Instantly the price of culanda laquer went from 1,600 to up to 6,000k as people were making furnishings for their house. By running around however, i was able to run across some deals for 2-3.5k.
In a global auction house system, someone with no time to play would just sell their culanda laquer cheap to make a few coins. There is a very high chance any low prices would immediately be bought up by the market manipulaters. You selling your cheap laquer, just netted them more money as they will now relist it for 10-15k and anyone needing it will be forced to pay that unless they just happened to be searching immediately after you listed. Inflation would be rampant in the game.
Actually prices would be kept down by a massively increase in the number of vendors. What inflates prices currently is the severe restriction in the number of traders and allegedly the collusion between a number of the guilds monopolising those traders. That's why the only players defending the present system are by and large those making the most gold from keeping the prices high. They're also very largely PC players who would condemn the system instantly if they were denied access to trading addons.
People talk about the present system offering a vibrant economy, but it doesn't. It offers a highly restricted economy which is inaccessible to most players and which results in those players selling highly priced items being the only ones able to buy such items. It's a very narrow economy with most players just dumping their excess items on NPC merchants and making do with whatever stuff they loot or get from quests.6 -
Sennecca✭✭✭Add to this that the cost of all resins have gone up, the price of all crafted gear using those resins will also go up. There is now way a new player could afford to buy an epic or heaven forbid a legendary item.0
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »No thanks. A single AH leads to item monopolies and price fixing.
So basically ghost guilds that take over the market and leave the rest of the 4,950 people out of trade spots in one area ?
ZoS is working on discouraging that0 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^
I second that statement. Many people have that kind of money these days.
There isn't much legwork involved the travel time is 1 minute, maybe 2 in most cases. In less than an hour, a player alone, or a player with some guildies, own the majority of the market. That's all they need. It's as simple as that. Always has been, hence the crazy high prices.Edited by Arrodisia on June 11, 2019 4:39PM1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^
Most assuredly. It appears that some people think there is some sort of honor system that would keep people from doing this, and it’s just simply not the case.
It’s also not even a pipe dream because it is EXACTLY what happens in every sports game’s Ultimate Team mode.
In PS4’s The Show their diamond dynasty mode makes cards diamond level at 85 overall. The price difference between a gold 84 and a diamond 85 is usually a ridiculously wide sum. The best cards - the “endgame gear” if you will - are hoarded by the rich and relisted for an astronomical profit. Same thing happens in all the EA and 2K games.
And those games are ones where more than 90% of the player base accrues all their “gold” in one year. In ESO people have had about 5 years to save up.
Plain and simple ... GAHs drive down the price of good gear to trivial vendor levels and drive up the price of great gear to levels which casual players have no chance of actually affording reasonably.3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think ESO should atleast put a search vendor in each major city with multiple npcs of course spread out throughout the city so they don't get overcrowded every time but to allow you to search for any item in the game at the current time at which vendor and location and then you would have to go and get it there kind of like how Swg did1 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭Sorry but No. If you don't want to deal with guilds and traders, then not having a platform to sell your goods in (other than chat) is one of the consequences of that choice. Make yours.
I like the idea of having to run around and hunt for the bargains and best deals. Sometimes I can tell a trader guild on its start by the way it lists things in their store, and their trader locale, prices and so on... Sometimes I pay above the base value or beyond my margin of profit, just to help them out, but when I see extortion, nope you lose my business.
I feel like ZOS should do something about TTC because it is very easy to manipulate the market, even just by using the online search function. How many times have you searched for an item, found it really cheap and recent, gone to the trader, found it missing, then moved down the list to see the same item ONLY listed at 100x its value? Now if any single person is desperate enough to pay that exorbitant amount, the base value for that item just jumped 50% higher than it has ever been, at least. Then they keep doing it so that the value (MM) and listing prices (TTC) both skyrocket! At least with MM it is based on sales. If TTC would shift from listings to sales then it would be a useful and less dirty system. Not entirely sure what they could do about TTC or how overreaching it will be but just some pie in the sky hopes for ESO and the new players.
What is my base of reference? Being an active member of three founding trade guilds, (Eastmarch Trade Company, Warmart, Royal Bank of Tamriel) and have been playing since launch, PC NA.Edited by jimmulvaney on June 11, 2019 4:49PM3 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »double
That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: ».THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.
“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.
Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.
Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.
Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.
Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.
Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”
There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^
I second that statement. Many people have that kind of money these days.
There isn't much legwork involved the travel time is 1 minute, maybe 2 in most cases. In less than an hour, a player alone, or a player with some guildies, own the market. It's as simple as that. Always has been, hence the crazy high prices.
You’re right, there isn’t much legwork but there is some of it which blocks some people. Some is certainly better than none.
Let’s say with loading times included you can hit the 18 or so vendors in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka in 10 minutes. The problem isn’t those. It’s the zone hopping to all the rest of the stores which could take a few hours. Totally doable, but still, it requires some effort as opposed to none.
The major argument seems in general to be “I only have X play time. Why should I waste it traveling to every zone for Y.” Well that works both ways.
If an ESO billionaire wanted to buy up the whole current supply of something important, well they could. But they would have to keep checking the stores multiple times a day. Eventually people get tired of that and after a few days those billionaires want to play PVP or do a trial or whatever. When that happens they cease control of the market allowing the “little guy” to undercut them and make some gold.
In a GAH environment that billionaire can do that exact same thing in less than 5 seconds, and they can hold control of it for as long as they are willing to invest just 5 seconds which would likely be more or less forever.1 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭I think ESO should at least put a search vendor in each major city with multiple npcs of course spread out throughout the city so they don't get overcrowded every time but to allow you to search for any item in the game at the current time at which vendor and location and then you would have to go and get it there kind of like how Swg did
I would like to see this too. Not sure what it would mean for load times and such in ESO but you still have the issue of TTC. I do hate to say it but if they could block TTC from their system or deem it an illegal addon, then implement these search kiosks without listing prices (so you would still have to hunt for the best bargain) that could work, but again... that makes for one slippery slope in overreach.0