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Why does Stamina have so many choices?
DKMaestro
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Its not enough that each class, more or less, have abilities that suits both magicka and stamina, but stamina also have another 4 weapon skill lines to chose from?
I keep reading that people are upset of the lack of stamina morphs on sorcerer, or that the stamina morphs on necro are no better than the world skill lines.
Well at least you have options!
Next time you want a nerf to a magicka class or ability, think about how many options magicka abilities we have access to, compared to the wealth of stamina abilities!
I keep reading that people are upset of the lack of stamina morphs on sorcerer, or that the stamina morphs on necro are no better than the world skill lines.
Well at least you have options!
Next time you want a nerf to a magicka class or ability, think about how many options magicka abilities we have access to, compared to the wealth of stamina abilities!
Old man playing. Have a life, a job and only one character, which is grumpy (all the time)
16
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RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Because they have no class skills. Look at any endgame stam build - dual wield, bow, poison arrow, endless hail, caltrops, trap, rending, blade cloak, flawless, ballista.
Do you think stam are using dual wield or snb? Or is this a PvP nerf thread?Edited by RodneyRegis on June 6, 2019 9:12PM32 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its because ZOS originally designed ESO for everyone to play magicka, with weapons and stamina just being there for flavor.
Obviously, that's changed a lot, especially with the removal of the soft caps and the introduction of magicka/stamina scaling.
And so ZOS is trying to accommodate the magicka/stamina split with new classes because that's obviously what their design goals have shifted to and players expect it, but they havent updated the old classes or weapons to match (in the Elsweyr Q&A, they said their focus was on new content and streamlining old skills, not redoing them.)
IMO,
Magicka builds need more weapon variety.
Stamina builds need more class skill identity.35 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SO we all don't play the same exact build or spec or use all of the same abilities as each other.4 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭As I have mentioned in other threads, just make all class skills magicka but with different damage types. The game wasn't designed to have stamina morphs, and that is what is causing the balance problems. Just my opinion anyway.2
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El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I suppose there is the option to run a S&B front bar and 2H mace back bar. But just because you can does not mean you should.
It would be like someone complaining that magicka based players could run a Front staff front bar and Resto back bar in PVE. I mean, you can....1 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can I pick no endless hail? Nope!!!! Not even clise. Everything is balanced around it. Gimp level 100 if you don't use endless hail on your back bar.
So you mean I get to pick what goes with endless hail, caltrops and poison injection. The diversity is way less than mag overall.6 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So much this. Every stamina build is the same weapon skills with one or two class skills. And magicka has staves to use and that's it. Ugh. Why can't magicka have wands and spellbooks? Why can't there be more stamina morphs so we don't have to use almost all weapon skills?VaranisArano wrote: »IMO,
Magicka builds need more weapon variety.
Stamina builds need more class skill identity.
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso7 -
hope0burns✭✭✭At this point it seems like it'd just be better to do something like make castable abilities all take magicka regardless of class and weapon and leave stamina to things like blocking, dodging, etc. Or just make a singular large resource pool that everything pulls from. Could call it "endurance" or something. Obviously separating the resource pools and separating what different weapons and abilities use hasn't been a winning strategy, at least not for a MMO which relies so heavily on castable abilities. It seems like it'd just be better to let people choose whatever weapons and abilities they want and have every active ability just take from a single resource instead of having a split of stam, stam morphs, and magicka.
That sounds like much more fun, frankly. I'm tired of using overgrown wands on my casters. I can't think of a single one of the SP games I've played where I used a staff, the things always sucked when compared to bows and melee weapons because you simply didn't need them to cast spells. Right now I'd rather be dual wielding, two handing, bowing, or just doing really anything other than wanding like I'm Harry Potter, but I really enjoy magicka so here I am using wands.
Really, there are a great many ways this game can be improved, but the company's more concerned with making quick money than improving the game, look how long it took just to get a search feature for the traders, after all! I'm so thankful it finally happened, though. I'd love for things to be simplified and for us to be able to use any weapons we wanted and not have to worry about things like morphs specifically for our weapon types and things like weapon dam vs spell dam yet it's one of those things that I'm not going to wait or even hope for as it's so unlikely to happen that if it does it'll be many years from now.
Those are just my thoughts on the whole weapon/spell/magicka-stamina combat situation, anyway.Edited by hope0burns on June 6, 2019 9:51PM1 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I remember when stam was rubbish and everyone ran mag characters....Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.14 -
satanio✭✭✭✭Wildberryjack wrote: »
So much this. Every stamina build is the same weapon skills with one or two class skills. And magicka has staves to use and that's it. Ugh. Why can't magicka have wands and spellbooks? Why can't there be more stamina morphs so we don't have to use almost all weapon skills?VaranisArano wrote: »IMO,
Magicka builds need more weapon variety.
Stamina builds need more class skill identity.
Yes, there could be more weapons, but, there are so many useless skills already, f.ex. in mages guild, that I don't know if it's good to add something just for the sake of adding something.
Stamina is not the same weapon as of Elsweyr, so many new potent builds - Bow/Bow is a thing, 2h is almost as good as dw, Maelstrom daggers making comeback.
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭funny is this as for pve at all we almsot cant see any other use besides duals and bows ins tamina build
and to this with stamina builds every class is using literally same 8-10 skills out of 12 possible to use in combat, just rest 2-4 are usable class skills depending on which class...
and with it many staminas have no class identifity like not much us of even class passives - look at stamsorc - he have the least of use from his class skills, passives at all0 -
Yellow_Monolith✭✭✭✭✭Stamina doesn't have that many choices. Stam sorc is the most neglected class ever and struggling to get stam morphs for skills and stamplar has like 2 stam skills that we use.8 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Magicka is so much fun, because they actually use they're class abilities. Unlike they're stamina counterparts.8 -
Muzzick✭✭✭✭If you like weapon skills pick stamina if you like class skills go magicka. Doubt that will change any time soon it would be a major rework.1
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Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wildberryjack wrote: »
So much this. Every stamina build is the same weapon skills with one or two class skills. And magicka has staves to use and that's it. Ugh. Why can't magicka have wands and spellbooks? Why can't there be more stamina morphs so we don't have to use almost all weapon skills?VaranisArano wrote: »IMO,
Magicka builds need more weapon variety.
Stamina builds need more class skill identity.
Yes, there could be more weapons, but, there are so many useless skills already, f.ex. in mages guild, that I don't know if it's good to add something just for the sake of adding something.
Stamina is not the same weapon as of Elsweyr, so many new potent builds - Bow/Bow is a thing, 2h is almost as good as dw, Maelstrom daggers making comeback.
But there's still no mele builds and endless hail + caltrops really dominate the animation and damage. So there's choices, but they are detail choices to accompany the endless hail build. It also locks us to the vma bow, which then locks us to a proc set on the front.
When a mele build can match an endless hail build, then we can talk about stam diversity. Otherwise it's just more magic arrows falling from the sky.8 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its not enough that each class, more or less, have abilities that suits both magicka and stamina, but stamina also have another 4 weapon skill lines to chose from?
I keep reading that people are upset of the lack of stamina morphs on sorcerer, or that the stamina morphs on necro are no better than the world skill lines.
Well at least you have options!
Next time you want a nerf to a magicka class or ability, think about how many options magicka abilities we have access to, compared to the wealth of stamina abilities!
because the inverse was the case at launch
Stamina morphs of class skills did not exist
Magicka builds were staff + class skills
Stamina builds were basically just weapon skills + caltrops and maybe some Fighter's Guild
ZOS has implemented new classes and made moves towards having Stamina options available to every class
but stuff like spell crafting and alternative magicka weapons have not really been in the development cycleEdited by Samadhi on June 6, 2019 11:03PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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DKMaestro✭✭✭funny is this as for pve at all we almsot cant see any other use besides duals and bows ins tamina build
and to this with stamina builds every class is using literally same 8-10 skills out of 12 possible to use in combat, just rest 2-4 are usable class skills depending on which class...
and with it many staminas have no class identifity like not much us of even class passives - look at stamsorc - he have the least of use from his class skills, passives at all
But why should there even be a stamsorc? It is a term and people use them, but a sorcerer is inherently based on magicka. That people chose to use a few skills and make, what they call, a stamsorc, that’s fine. Just don’t complain that stamsorc should be a thing, when you are literally just using the same skills as any other stamina based character.
Make the classes more distinct and don’t assume that you should be able to chose whatever attribute and class you want and be successful.
Old man playing. Have a life, a job and only one character, which is grumpy (all the time)3 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Idk, why does magicka have literally all the class skills at their disposal while stamina only has 3-4?"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 43310 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭its also a bit weird that they dont introduce more stam morphs in the "old" classes because there are quite a few skills for many classes that never see any use as far as i can tell...this has gotten better with some patches in recent months but still...especially looking at for exmaple one of the spear shards morphs for templar, or something like the rock fist from dragon night (a rock fist that does magicka damage mmmkay)... giving some of these skills a stam morph would also solve some issues for these classes not having a spammable for example... i am not entirely sure why ZOS is not willing to entertain the option.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭funny is this as for pve at all we almsot cant see any other use besides duals and bows ins tamina build
and to this with stamina builds every class is using literally same 8-10 skills out of 12 possible to use in combat, just rest 2-4 are usable class skills depending on which class...
and with it many staminas have no class identifity like not much us of even class passives - look at stamsorc - he have the least of use from his class skills, passives at all
But why should there even be a stamsorc? It is a term and people use them, but a sorcerer is inherently based on magicka. That people chose to use a few skills and make, what they call, a stamsorc, that’s fine. Just don’t complain that stamsorc should be a thing, when you are literally just using the same skills as any other stamina based character.
Make the classes more distinct and don’t assume that you should be able to chose whatever attribute and class you want and be successful.
Well, I'd look at the Stam Sorc in the light of the Skills Advisor, the "Arcane Warrior".
I'm a fighter who summons hurricane winds to rip my enemies to shreds, who bargains with darkness to restore my fighting abilities, who conjures armor, and throws lightning around whenever I really want to kill things, along with the ability to shut down enemy casters.
Honestly, if it werent for magicka skills scaling poorly on a stamina build, Stam Sorc would be a beast with the lightning class skills. Instead, we have Hurricane as the lone "wind" ability in the class.
Sorceror as a class is very obviously a product of ZOS assuming that every class was going to be solely magicka. Like it or not, ZOS has moved away from that model. And just like its a shame that magicka builds have few weapon choices, it's kind of a shame that ZOS hasn't updated the choices for stamina builds.6 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭funny is this as for pve at all we almsot cant see any other use besides duals and bows ins tamina build
and to this with stamina builds every class is using literally same 8-10 skills out of 12 possible to use in combat, just rest 2-4 are usable class skills depending on which class...
and with it many staminas have no class identifity like not much us of even class passives - look at stamsorc - he have the least of use from his class skills, passives at all
But why should there even be a stamsorc? It is a term and people use them, but a sorcerer is inherently based on magicka. That people chose to use a few skills and make, what they call, a stamsorc, that’s fine. Just don’t complain that stamsorc should be a thing, when you are literally just using the same skills as any other stamina based character.
Make the classes more distinct and don’t assume that you should be able to chose whatever attribute and class you want and be successful.
The problem, IMO, is how damage is calculated, which has resulted in essentially being forced to go all in on one or the other if you want your damage numbers to be significant. Because of this, ZoS had to prioritize gameplay over lore and design, which lead them to the conclusion that they should change a bunch of class skill morphs to draw from stamina.
We're almost at the point now where there is no longer any distinction between what is magical and what is physical."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just because there are lots of options doesn’t mean they’re any good.
What it might mean is that there is a variety of possible play styles. But the reality of weapon skills is that one will be better than the others and that this will be true for all classes.
And that just means that many of the options are never used. Any stam character needs a ranged attack, so you have to have a bow, while increasingly close up melee toons are being punished with 1 shots.
It’s interesting that the necro has stamina morphs that are essentially Magicka skills in all but name, so at least there’s an attempt to make more class skills viable for a stamina toon. But then if my Magicka necro and stamina necro use essentially the same skills, but one set costs Magicka and one costs stamina, is there actually any difference between them?3 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Because that's how things are set up.Why does Stamina have so many choices
Magica characters (aka "Wizards") have loads of nifty class skills ("Spells") to choose from.
Stamina characters (aka "Warriors") have loads of weapon options to choose from.
In the beginning, stamina characters had even -less- other options as stamina morphs were not that much of a thing, but they changed that. And magica characters got a new psijic skill line to play with, so... more options there as well.
Tho its still a little "meh", and more weapon choices for both would be very much appreciated... but then, I would say that, would I not?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1
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Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Wildberryjack wrote: »
So much this. Every stamina build is the same weapon skills with one or two class skills. And magicka has staves to use and that's it. Ugh. Why can't magicka have wands and spellbooks? Why can't there be more stamina morphs so we don't have to use almost all weapon skills?VaranisArano wrote: »IMO,
Magicka builds need more weapon variety.
Stamina builds need more class skill identity.
Cause wands are stupid.1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Colecovision wrote: »Can I pick no endless hail? Nope!!!! Not even clise. Everything is balanced around it. Gimp level 100 if you don't use endless hail on your back bar.
So you mean I get to pick what goes with endless hail, caltrops and poison injection. The diversity is way less than mag overall.
Kind of same thing with magicka and wall of elementsPC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
Solid_Metal✭✭✭✭✭RodneyRegis wrote: »Because they have no class skills. Look at any endgame stam build - dual wield, bow, poison arrow, endless hail, caltrops, trap, rending, blade cloak, flawless, ballista.
Do you think stam are using dual wield or snb? Or is this a PvP nerf thread?
basically this, if you want to make a stamina build, your build inherently will be cookie cutter build, because stam build just mainly use weapon skill and thats it, while magicka build, you can use almost everything, psijic order, mage guild, class skill line, weapon skill line etc"i will walk through the fog, as i welcome death"0 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Can I pick no endless hail? Nope!!!! Not even clise. Everything is balanced around it. Gimp level 100 if you don't use endless hail on your back bar.
So you mean I get to pick what goes with endless hail, caltrops and poison injection. The diversity is way less than mag overall.
Kind of same thing with magicka and wall of elements
Yes. The skills serve the same balance function. Easy to walk out of for pvp, but massive pve aoe dots. OP claims stam has all these choices, so I pointed out the big restriction. If the op would have said "Stam is stuck with the bow and EH, just like we have staves and WOE," then I'd have simply agreed.2 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭funny is this as for pve at all we almsot cant see any other use besides duals and bows ins tamina build
and to this with stamina builds every class is using literally same 8-10 skills out of 12 possible to use in combat, just rest 2-4 are usable class skills depending on which class...
and with it many staminas have no class identifity like not much us of even class passives - look at stamsorc - he have the least of use from his class skills, passives at all
But why should there even be a stamsorc? It is a term and people use them, but a sorcerer is inherently based on magicka. That people chose to use a few skills and make, what they call, a stamsorc, that’s fine. Just don’t complain that stamsorc should be a thing, when you are literally just using the same skills as any other stamina based character.
Make the classes more distinct and don’t assume that you should be able to chose whatever attribute and class you want and be successful.
So decades of sorcerors in fantasy using swords and axes and maces and reinforcing their physical abilities with magic never happened? Neat. Somebody tell Sauron that LoTR is now void.4 -
Ixilith✭✭✭Tbh I’d like to see Zos add more weapons in future expansions.
I’d wanna see
a scythe.
A polearm or spear.
A crossbow
And more, id really like to see new things for classes to widen options for both magicka and stamina
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