Should normal dlc dungeons drop monster set head piece?

mague · June 2019

Other

XDark_One13 wrote: »

It’s not locked behind vet mode. You can buy them from the golden vendor. I’ve purchased all of my monster helms this way and several shoulders because I don’t do vet dungeons.

Never seen any helmet there.

Svenja · June 2019

No

mague wrote: »

XDark_One13 wrote: »

It’s not locked behind vet mode. You can buy them from the golden vendor. I’ve purchased all of my monster helms this way and several shoulders because I don’t do vet dungeons.

Never seen any helmet there.

Then you probably don't look very often.

Firstmep · June 2019

No

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

No the devs need to work on the games difficulty curve, they wont lock dlc dungeons behind prev dungeons achiev etc, but at least completeing normal dlc b4 you can do vet would be nice so ppl at least get a glance at the mechanics.

As someone who has been playing since launch i dont find any 4 man content overwhemingly difficult, but even i can see the massive difference between non dlc and dlc dungeons.

Please no zos doesn't know how to implement things like that, and many times people dont learn anything in normal, cause u know, nukefesta with mechanics tickling u instead of killing you. Normal dlc, does not prepare you for vet. I mean, it does help a bit, but it doesn't. I dont feel like completing a normal dlc dungeon with every toon i didnt complete it on yet just so i can go vet with it.

Put yourself in the shoes of a casual/new/inexperienced player.
Zos doesnt gate dlc dungeons too heavily, they want ppl to be able to go anywhere they want.
At the same time they treat dlc dungeons as a step up from regular ones in terms of difficulty, more complex mechanics, more dmg more hp etc.
I really dont see a better alternative, id rather have them prepare players for the increased difficulty, than outright nerf content.
May even help with all the salty nerf dlc dungeons threads on the forums.
In short: id rather see players improve their gameplay, than zeni nerf content heavily.

mague · June 2019

Other

I dont mind them dropping in normal.

What i really would like to see are a few craftable 2 piece sets. Say one for tank, one for heal and one for dps. Make them 9 piece requirements but allow us to craft any two pieces we want. Like two weapons or a necklace and boots. Just any two pieces.

zvavi · June 2019

Other

Firstmep wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

No the devs need to work on the games difficulty curve, they wont lock dlc dungeons behind prev dungeons achiev etc, but at least completeing normal dlc b4 you can do vet would be nice so ppl at least get a glance at the mechanics.

As someone who has been playing since launch i dont find any 4 man content overwhemingly difficult, but even i can see the massive difference between non dlc and dlc dungeons.

Please no zos doesn't know how to implement things like that, and many times people dont learn anything in normal, cause u know, nukefesta with mechanics tickling u instead of killing you. Normal dlc, does not prepare you for vet. I mean, it does help a bit, but it doesn't. I dont feel like completing a normal dlc dungeon with every toon i didnt complete it on yet just so i can go vet with it.

Put yourself in the shoes of a casual/new/inexperienced player.
Zos doesnt gate dlc dungeons too heavily, they want ppl to be able to go anywhere they want.
At the same time they treat dlc dungeons as a step up from regular ones in terms of difficulty, more complex mechanics, more dmg more hp etc.
I really dont see a better alternative, id rather have them prepare players for the increased difficulty, than outright nerf content.
May even help with all the salty nerf dlc dungeons threads on the forums.
In short: id rather see players improve their gameplay, than zeni nerf content heavily.

I agree with you that they need to prepare players for increased difficulty. I agree with you on all what you said, but the fact that normal dlc prepares for vet dlc. But here is a better alternative for a learning curve. Buff overland quests. Give mobs more health, and immunity phases untill a certain mechanic happens (where u need to bash/block/roll dodge, or u know, death happens) and keep it one mechanic per boss. I think it will do wonders.

BigBragg · June 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You may play without helm, for example 5+5 body+jewelry and vma bow+vma daggers. Or master's staff and asulum stuff.. vma s&b + asylum s&b for tank etc.. maybe a little bit suboptimal, but dungeons should have motivation to play them

So if payers aren't getting monster sets because of the dlc dungeon difficulty, your suggestion to them is to go get vMA, vDSA, or vBRP weapons?

hmmm...

idk · June 2019

No

No and mostly because Zos has already changed their mind on this enough. There was a time normal had a rare chance to drop a monster helm and Zos saw fit to remove this. So like the faction lock issue, at some point Zos needs to decide to stop their silliness and make up their mind.

But on the serious note, there should be a reward for completing the more challenging content and difficulty level. Anyone and everyone can do it if they work at it. Most people who clear HM of the new trials fairly cleanly had to figure out the mechanics first.

Glurin · June 2019

No

Lets not encourage even more instant gratification for less effort.

Firstmep · June 2019

No

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

No the devs need to work on the games difficulty curve, they wont lock dlc dungeons behind prev dungeons achiev etc, but at least completeing normal dlc b4 you can do vet would be nice so ppl at least get a glance at the mechanics.

As someone who has been playing since launch i dont find any 4 man content overwhemingly difficult, but even i can see the massive difference between non dlc and dlc dungeons.

Please no zos doesn't know how to implement things like that, and many times people dont learn anything in normal, cause u know, nukefesta with mechanics tickling u instead of killing you. Normal dlc, does not prepare you for vet. I mean, it does help a bit, but it doesn't. I dont feel like completing a normal dlc dungeon with every toon i didnt complete it on yet just so i can go vet with it.

Put yourself in the shoes of a casual/new/inexperienced player.
Zos doesnt gate dlc dungeons too heavily, they want ppl to be able to go anywhere they want.
At the same time they treat dlc dungeons as a step up from regular ones in terms of difficulty, more complex mechanics, more dmg more hp etc.
I really dont see a better alternative, id rather have them prepare players for the increased difficulty, than outright nerf content.
May even help with all the salty nerf dlc dungeons threads on the forums.
In short: id rather see players improve their gameplay, than zeni nerf content heavily.

I agree with you that they need to prepare players for increased difficulty. I agree with you on all what you said, but the fact that normal dlc prepares for vet dlc. But here is a better alternative for a learning curve. Buff overland quests. Give mobs more health, and immunity phases untill a certain mechanic happens (where u need to bash/block/roll dodge, or u know, death happens) and keep it one mechanic per boss. I think it will do wonders.

Again, the way the game is structured in a way to allow ppl to go anywhere, the weak overland difficulty is a byproduct of the battle scaling.
They want someone who just got into the game to be able to go anywhere and be able to complete alll overland content.
Its not balanced around max cp and gear, its balanced around no cp and no sets.

Some kind of a difficulty curve for dungeons would be welcome, normal dungeons unlock as you level up, so should the difficulty of the latter ones.

Tommy_The_Gun · June 2019

Other

Got most of my monster sets from gold vendor tbh. Sure, I did all of the dungeons on vet, but then I have to face RNG monster.

Also, I can understand monster helmets as a rewards for doing base game dungeons... But DLC ones are hard even on normal.

This imho causes a disproportion when it comes to reward vs content difficulty.

Since ESO has a gear-based progression system past max cp level, for many ppl, progression is locked behind group play or joining a guild and being dependand of other ppl. If I for example have completed vMA am I a bad player ?

I do strongly beleive that relatively stronger gear should not be locked behind hard content that only top players are able to compleat, and the gear they get makes them even stronger, futher increasing "skill" / performance gap. I do admit that this does may not refer to moster set, as they are not that hard to get (and are also avaiable via gold vendor), but pretty much every othet gear (weapon sets and trial gear) are technically affected by that.

Less exclusive gear locked behind difficult content, but significantly more unique rewards, mounts, skins, houses, emotes, personalties, or even crates & crown gems etc. Imho could be a good solution.

Btw. I remeber, throu out history of mmo, that in other game (I think it was WoW), after some time there was a "meta" paradox. In order to "be allowed" to do dungeon "A", you had to have gear from dngeon "B". In order to do dungeon "B" you had to have gear from... Dungeon "A". This caused basically that only a few "chosen ones" were able to do those dungeons. I rly hope similar "paradox" wont happen in eso.

zvavi · June 2019

Other

Firstmep wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

No the devs need to work on the games difficulty curve, they wont lock dlc dungeons behind prev dungeons achiev etc, but at least completeing normal dlc b4 you can do vet would be nice so ppl at least get a glance at the mechanics.

As someone who has been playing since launch i dont find any 4 man content overwhemingly difficult, but even i can see the massive difference between non dlc and dlc dungeons.

Please no zos doesn't know how to implement things like that, and many times people dont learn anything in normal, cause u know, nukefesta with mechanics tickling u instead of killing you. Normal dlc, does not prepare you for vet. I mean, it does help a bit, but it doesn't. I dont feel like completing a normal dlc dungeon with every toon i didnt complete it on yet just so i can go vet with it.

Put yourself in the shoes of a casual/new/inexperienced player.
Zos doesnt gate dlc dungeons too heavily, they want ppl to be able to go anywhere they want.
At the same time they treat dlc dungeons as a step up from regular ones in terms of difficulty, more complex mechanics, more dmg more hp etc.
I really dont see a better alternative, id rather have them prepare players for the increased difficulty, than outright nerf content.
May even help with all the salty nerf dlc dungeons threads on the forums.
In short: id rather see players improve their gameplay, than zeni nerf content heavily.

I agree with you that they need to prepare players for increased difficulty. I agree with you on all what you said, but the fact that normal dlc prepares for vet dlc. But here is a better alternative for a learning curve. Buff overland quests. Give mobs more health, and immunity phases untill a certain mechanic happens (where u need to bash/block/roll dodge, or u know, death happens) and keep it one mechanic per boss. I think it will do wonders.

Again, the way the game is structured in a way to allow ppl to go anywhere, the weak overland difficulty is a byproduct of the battle scaling.
They want someone who just got into the game to be able to go anywhere and be able to complete alll overland content.
Its not balanced around max cp and gear, its balanced around no cp and no sets.

Some kind of a difficulty curve for dungeons would be welcome, normal dungeons unlock as you level up, so should the difficulty of the latter ones.

Because adding 1 mechanic per boss quest with some dialog that reminds people that they can bypass the mechanic makes the fights will stop people from passing that content so much... Worst thing it will do is make it a bit harder xd

OwnerOfSuccuby · June 2019

No

There is no one veteran Dlc that we can not pass with just 2 of us. Without 2 members.

Exept may by DLC with mechanical mouses.

Scaleter peak we do for 45 minutes for example.

It is really easy. What is the point to give top gear helmets for thingth even more simple where you will go with 4 of you?

May be you better watch cartoon than play then?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · June 2019

No

Gordon906 wrote: »

A lot of the monster sets are locked behind the difficult DLC vet dungeons, and people don't even bother getting them for builds because of that reason. This trend isn't stopping anytime soon.

You do forget every week there is sale of some masks on Cyrodiil vendor. Last weekend one set was Velidreth, from COS and Engine Guardian form DC2. Each costs 100k gold.

Also except the mask from Frostvault and possibly Cradle of Shadows, I do not see which DLC mask is too difficult to get.
Difficulty on dungeons is relying on damage dealers doing damage and not faffing around. If you cannot pull your act together to make a damage dealer, make a proper tank.

Also there are alternatives, some time superior. Selene & Stormfist are great substitutes for Velidreth.

MattT1988 · June 2019

No

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

I have 20k dps and would realy like to do 40k+ like all the good players but how can i do ~40k dps without Zaan?
But i cant get Zaan because i allways get kicket from vSP so i got stuck with 20k.
If i could get Zaan from nSP i cut do 40k dps too.

How it is now i have to keep joining vSP groups via Groupfinder jsut to get kicket

If your not good enough to get Zaan, find an alternative monster set from an easier dungeon and work your way up to Zaan. If your on a Sorc, Ilambris is good, it’s easy to get as well. If your on a Mag DK or even a Magblade, try Grothdaar or Infernal, both pretty easy to get. Sure your numbers won’t be as high as if you’d have Zaan or Skoria, but if you practice enough you’ll be able to get your Zaan or Skoria with those sets. There’s nothing wrong with starting low and working your way up.
Or you could wait until it’s available at the Golden.

Erelah wrote: »

The objections to it seems to be it must be earned. To that I have two answers. It was someone earned the money to purchase a video game which sole purpose is to be enjoyed in the ways the game developers have stated we may which is compliance with the terms of service which we agreed upon when installing and after several updates..

You pay for the right to attempt the content. You don’t pay for the privilege to automatically complete the content.

VDoom1 · June 2019

No

You want good stuff, gotta earn it.

Some of the monster helms are BiS/best in slot.

Besides it's not that hard, depending on the dungeon. Accept that you might wipe once or twice while figuring out the mechanics and then proceed.

I can sympathize since I had to get Lord Warden, meaning veteran Imperial City Prison. Arguably one of the more difficult dungeons in the game. Took...3 groups and some deaths but I got it. The group swapping was mostly due to people giving up instead of wanting or trying to learn how to beat the boss.

Elwendryll · June 2019

No

The real question is:

Should overland enemies drop Maelstrom Weapons?

Some people don't have the money to buy DLCs or the time to learn mechanics, practice, and get better at the game to drop BiS weapons. A lot of people don't even try vMA because of the high difficulty, so people don't even consider vMA weapons for their builds. I think making the weapons available to drop in overland will definitely get more people to try vMA, and overall help increase the general level of the playerbase!

siddique · June 2019

No

Lol people have such high hopes with Zaan. 😂 It's like vMA weapons. If you are hitting 20k, don't bother about getting Zaan, bother about practicing your rotation on a dummy.

I didn't even think about Zaan until I was hitting 38k, then for the last 2k, I went ahead and got the helmet and shoulders and crossed 40k. After that I went and got myself vMA staff and now I'm pushing 43k.

Also, no. No helmets from normal dungeons.

thorwyn · June 2019

I think making the weapons available to drop in overland will definitely get more people to try vMA, and overall help increase the general level of the playerbase!

What?
Weapons dropping in overland will encourage people to try the harder content where they originally used to drop? Why would they even bother trying vMA then? Just for the fun of it? Even the prospect of getting one of the best weapons in the game is not enough motivation for some people to go and try it.

'splain!

IndorilArwynLlethran · June 2019

No

If want a prize - apply some efforts.

zvavi · June 2019

Other

thorwyn wrote: »

I think making the weapons available to drop in overland will definitely get more people to try vMA, and overall help increase the general level of the playerbase!

What?
Weapons dropping in overland will encourage people to try the harder content where they originally used to drop? Why would they even bother trying vMA then? Just for the fun of it? Even the prospect of getting one of the best weapons in the game is not enough motivation for some people to go and try it.

'splain!

Sarcasm my friend. Sarcasm.

thorwyn · June 2019

Yikes... I didn't spot that.

MojaveHeld · June 2019

No

Of course not, having them gated behind actually doing the vet dungeon or paying exorbitant prices for them at the golden vendor is already the way it should be.

NocturnalSonata · June 2019

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

I have 20k dps and would realy like to do 40k+ like all the good players but how can i do ~40k dps without Zaan?
But i cant get Zaan because i allways get kicket from vSP so i got stuck with 20k.
If i could get Zaan from nSP i cut do 40k dps too.

How it is now i have to keep joining vSP groups via Groupfinder jsut to get kicket

I would love to know what build you are using that you think Zaan magically increases dps by 20k????

With 20k dps you could run vSP - the other DD will do more lifting but it would not be a complete carry. I highly doubt you are being kicked for doing 20k dps, so either the teams you are getting paired with are idiots, or you are not pulling what you think / crashing out on mechanics. Either way, run it with a guild.

edit - no to helmets in normals.

dtsharples · June 2019

No

The difficulty of Dungeons is currently fine as it is, sure some require a little effort but that's part of the fun.
Make some friends with similar interests, study the mechanics, and try until you succeed - You don't even need to do that Hardmode for the Hat.

Alternatively, You could always do normal BlackRose Prison or Normal Asylum for a non-perfected Weapon with a 2 piece bonus.
Alternatively use 2 pieces of Willpower or Agility, both of which give increased stats from 2 pieces than you would ordinarily get from any other sets.

If you are adamant that you would prefer a Monster set, there are great alternatives to the DLC ones in the base-game dungeons - which are markedly easier to acquire.
Again, read up on the mechanics of the fights so that you and your group have the best possible chance of finishing any content that you do.

Elwendryll · June 2019

No

thorwyn wrote: »

Yikes... I didn't spot that.

As you perfectly said it yourself, these rewards are necessary to push people to clear the hardest content. And some people keep asking on the forum for easier access to these carrots. The thing is, if you can't clear the content to get them, you don't need them.

mistermacintosh · June 2019

Yes

They could drop it on normal, just make it a rare drop. It's a monster set so who cares anymore?

srfrogg23 · June 2019

No

Negative. The Monster Set helms are, and have been for years, the only real reward/incentive to do Vet Dungeons. No need to move that carrot on the stick to a different difficulty level.

mistermacintosh · June 2019

Yes

Also, players sell carries. So Master Weapons, perfect trial sets, trial skins - all of that doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as skill goes. And dungeon Monster Sets, with dungeons being the easiest content to carry folks through, mean even less.

Not even going to go into account selling...

redlink1979 · June 2019

No

No. Earn it in vet.

ayu_fever · June 2019

bmnoble wrote: »

The only change I would like to see, is guaranteed weight drops for the helmet based on what you are wearing.

That and a actual schedule for monster sets on the golden vendor instead of the RNG of which sets are available.

Even just a permanent vendor in Cyrodiil, with all the different set heads/shoulders available but at a significant cost as a gold/AP sink, eg you can still buy the 2 sets at current prices on the golden vendor but buying the specific piece you want from the permanent vendor will cost you 5 maybe 10 times as much as the golden vendor prices.

i wouldnt mind the higher cost for an extra symphony of blades helmet.
that is worth not doing veterna depths of malatar ever again!!!

dlc dungeons are just too hard.
they all need several nerfs to bring them down a few notches.