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Piercing Mark
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Chelo✭✭✭✭✭HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »
If your sole reasoning behind this is to “counter another cloak abuser”...maybe...there’s a very cheap ultimate...that doesn’t allow a nightblade to go stealth?HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »
Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...
It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...
LOL get out of here with this dude. “This is coming from a permacloaker”. 😂😂😂
Piercing Mark as a detection skill is trash... Every single AoE skill is better, mage light is better, flare is better, etc, etc. Because those skills reveal the NB to EVERYONE.
If you want to keep the pressure against a decent NB, even detect pots are better because they last for 15 seconds, that's triple the duration of Piercing Mark.
So honestly, make it last at least 15 seconds (same as detect pots) or keep the 5 seconds but reveal the NB to everyone...
And for the fifth time, Im a cloak abuser who wants to counter another cloak abusers...
Been using Soul Assault in PvP since One Tamriel. It's fine and everyone have access to it. Still I believe NB should be the counter to another NB...0 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭mag sorcs are laughing right now. please carry on with trivial matters while the elephant quietly sits in the corner of the room laughing3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.
Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.
1. Running bs/fury/7th on a stamblade was something I’d never seen anyone do until I did it. That isn’t meta, that’s trail blazing. Not my fault people copy me (or that good players have the same ideas).
2. Boi I hit someone for 21k with my relentless while 1vXing yesterday. Running spriggan / 7th / pirate skelly. In medium. Still tanky af.
clips.twitch.tv/CloudyVenomousCookiePraiseIt
3. Using a medium armor stamblade build to tear up the old medium armor stamblades that we’re getting carried by cloak, it’s just so Got Dang poetic that it brings a tear to my eye. I think I’ll break my no-build-video streak and upload a new build vid, specifically because I know it’ll hard counter all the stamblades out there.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp3 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.
Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.
1. Running bs/fury/7th on a stamblade was something I’d never seen anyone do until I did it. That isn’t meta, that’s trail blazing. Not my fault people copy me (or that good players have the same ideas).
2. Boi I hit someone for 21k with my relentless while 1vXing yesterday. Running spriggan / 7th / pirate skelly. In medium. Still tanky af.
clips.twitch.tv/CloudyVenomousCookiePraiseIt
3. Using a medium armor stamblade build to tear up the old medium armor stamblades that we’re getting carried by cloak, it’s just so Got Dang poetic that it brings a tear to my eye. I think I’ll break my no-build-video streak and upload a new build vid, specifically because I know it’ll hard counter all the stamblades out there.
The irony of your stamblade build. logging off and creating a stamdk. the world really does go full circle!1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.
Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.
1. Running bs/fury/7th on a stamblade was something I’d never seen anyone do until I did it. That isn’t meta, that’s trail blazing. Not my fault people copy me (or that good players have the same ideas).
2. Boi I hit someone for 21k with my relentless while 1vXing yesterday. Running spriggan / 7th / pirate skelly. In medium. Still tanky af.
clips.twitch.tv/CloudyVenomousCookiePraiseIt
3. Using a medium armor stamblade build to tear up the old medium armor stamblades that we’re getting carried by cloak, it’s just so Got Dang poetic that it brings a tear to my eye. I think I’ll break my no-build-video streak and upload a new build vid, specifically because I know it’ll hard counter all the stamblades out there.
The irony of your stamblade build. logging off and creating a stamdk. the world really does go full circle!
IMO it adds insult to injury. The stam DK never had a perfect counter to cloak. The stamblade does lol.
But to be tbh the stamblade can build more aggressively since it has more mitigation in its kit now, at least in CP PvP. In no cp, the healing of the Stam DK is still super strong.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Flame_of_Hades✭✭✭Im prob the only magblade who loves mark being free.
Last patch I was running ele drain + cripple, now Im running mark and debilitate for the same effect + the ability to screw over stamblades and magblades who can only cloak for defense.
It's so amusing how many nbs just die if their cloak is countered. they don't heal, they don't run, they don't dodge roll, they just die because of the shock of being hit. "OMG ITS BROKEN I DIED!"
its even great against stamblades that cloak - roll - cloak - roll, because I can see where they are going and put a fear trap in their path....
TL:DR, adapt. I'm running bosmer on a magblade, and because of that, I can roll when I'm marked, and I can break free when stunned. is it meta? no, but its the best way to compliment my play style instead of falling over dead when my cloak is countered.5 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Im prob the only magblade who loves mark being free.
Last patch I was running ele drain + cripple, now Im running mark and debilitate for the same effect + the ability to screw over stamblades and magblades who can only cloak for defense.
It's so amusing how many nbs just die if their cloak is countered. they don't heal, they don't run, they don't dodge roll, they just die because of the shock of being hit. "OMG ITS BROKEN I DIED!"
its even great against stamblades that cloak - roll - cloak - roll, because I can see where they are going and put a fear trap in their path....
TL:DR, adapt. I'm running bosmer on a magblade, and because of that, I can roll when I'm marked, and I can break free when stunned. is it meta? no, but its the best way to compliment my play style instead of falling over dead when my cloak is countered.
More folks need to read this... soooooo many nbs just fall over dead as soon as they are out of cloak... not even reacting.
Detect pot creates the same scenario and it’s to die for.0 -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭I love it as Nightblade, it separates the good from the bad Nightblades. Once they get hit with mark most NBs get in panic mode, even funnier are the ones burning mag trying to disguise out of it. But the good one’s well they just slot a thing called purge and tristat potions.0
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Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat.
So tell me why everyone thinks that the idea of going invisible should be a thing allowed in this game? It has been a toxic strategy used since launch (it avoids moves and dk wings were just nerfed for stopping the way others play the game) but yet cloak also suppresses dots while in it..... So a dk applies dots you cloak to eat time on said dot and miditigate more damage for free is fair gameplay?
Cloak should have been reworked long ago instead of all these moves constantly getting nerfed because of a guaranteed crit creating new 1 shots that nbs can do just saying.
Every class has been nerfed to the point that if you view a video from a build long ago it looks totally different than today, except NB. NB has stayed the same since launch on console for the most part. Gank blades are running very similar loadouts from 2014 but yet nbs always say they got nerfed? They are one class that hasn't ever had to really adapt to huge major changes (stamblades. Magblades have had major changes along with tank blades).
The gear changed but the actual move choices have not really changed. If you don't believe me I will post a video with vr system just to prove to you that stamblades are almost identical 5 years later.....Edited by Kidgangster101 on June 4, 2019 4:30AM2 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭khajiitNPC wrote: »I love it as Nightblade, it separates the good from the bad Nightblades. Once they get hit with mark most NBs get in panic mode, even funnier are the ones burning mag trying to disguise out of it. But the good one’s well they just slot a thing called purge and tristat potions.
When I get marked, I still cloak. Remember the only one who can see you is the other NB who mark you. You still invisible for the other other players... And that's my point... Everyone should be able to see the marked NB.0 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
*Justifies cloak because traditional rogue playstyle in other MMOs*
*claims you cant compare it to traditional MMOs*3 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
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LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »[As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Valid point. I agree that it's probably the most balanced class with the biggest toolkit (I'm having to choose which skill to add to an ability slot out of several) but...
How about instead of crying for nerfs to NBs, people ask for buffs to other classes? I. don't. care. if other classes get a wider and more versatile range of skills so that they can pull Nbs out of stealth easier or otherwise counter a variety of skills. I DO care that what people are talking about here involves removing a huge part of a NB's overall class identity that would have a serious impact on PvE.
What I'm seeing as a pattern is: NB skill perhaps OP -> players cry for nerfs -> NB skill gets nerfed -> NBs are told to "adapt" by the forums -> NBs adapt -> players cry for more nerfs because adaptations are effective -> lather, rinse, repeat until the class is nerfed into the ground.
BUFFS, not NERFS, please and thank you.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
I am under the impression that wings prevented certain play styles and so does cloak. Again NB loadouts have not changed much since 2014 while every other starting game class has seen significant changes. NB gets "nerfed" but yet still use the move that got "nerfed" meanwhile another class move gets nerfed and it leaves their loadout completely.
Cloak isn't an I win button but as a person that plays NB I can sure use it defensively and in the same move go offensive after evading an attack. Anything that can dodge attacks provide invis, heal to full and leave and enter combat as you wish, guarantee crit, suppress dots, provides major ward and major resolve, avoid damage all in one move..... It's very powerful in the hands of a good player. Please tell me another move in the game that does all of that in 1 move?
Again a fair way to treat cloak in this game is much like elusive mist. You can not regan Mana while in the form. And make it so NB can not heal so if the leave combat 50% and choose to engage again they are at 50% coming out of stealth.
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LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
You don't need to slot a specific potion. It's an option. There are plenty of specs that do very well against NB's without having to make any effort to tool the build to counter cloak specifically. But when you provide an absurd example of some imagined purely single target dot spec, then I'm providing the answer that even in that situation there is an option to easily counter cloak.
As for your second question, I need (or rather, its highly advantageous for me) to slot at least one undodgeable AOE to deal with medium armour builds. A gap closer to deal with streaking sorcerers. And a root/snare immunity to be able to deal with Templars.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
I am under the impression that wings prevented certain play styles and so does cloak. Again NB loadouts have not changed much since 2014 while every other starting game class has seen significant changes. NB gets "nerfed" but yet still use the move that got "nerfed" meanwhile another class move gets nerfed and it leaves their loadout completely.
Cloak isn't an I win button but as a person that plays NB I can sure use it defensively and in the same move go offensive after evading an attack. Anything that can dodge attacks provide invis, heal to full and leave and enter combat as you wish, guarantee crit, suppress dots, provides major ward and major resolve, avoid damage all in one move..... It's very powerful in the hands of a good player. Please tell me another move in the game that does all of that in 1 move?
Again a fair way to treat cloak in this game is much like elusive mist. You can not regan Mana while in the form. And make it so NB can not heal so if the leave combat 50% and choose to engage again they are at 50% coming out of stealth.
While I get the concern - your changes would affect magblade way more than the op stamblade that alternates between roll and cloak.
Cloak on magblade isn’t op at all because they have turd heals and they cannot evade as well as rollipolly builds.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
I am under the impression that wings prevented certain play styles and so does cloak. Again NB loadouts have not changed much since 2014 while every other starting game class has seen significant changes. NB gets "nerfed" but yet still use the move that got "nerfed" meanwhile another class move gets nerfed and it leaves their loadout completely.
Cloak isn't an I win button but as a person that plays NB I can sure use it defensively and in the same move go offensive after evading an attack. Anything that can dodge attacks provide invis, heal to full and leave and enter combat as you wish, guarantee crit, suppress dots, provides major ward and major resolve, avoid damage all in one move..... It's very powerful in the hands of a good player. Please tell me another move in the game that does all of that in 1 move?
Again a fair way to treat cloak in this game is much like elusive mist. You can not regan Mana while in the form. And make it so NB can not heal so if the leave combat 50% and choose to engage again they are at 50% coming out of stealth.
While I get the concern - your changes would affect magblade way more than the op stamblade that alternates between roll and cloak.
Cloak on magblade isn’t op at all because they have turd heals and they cannot evade as well as rollipolly builds.
It should stay the same if you are wearing 5 or more light pieces. That has been recommended before and doesn't kill magblade as they rely on it since they don't have everything stamina side has access to.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
You don't need to slot a specific potion. It's an option. There are plenty of specs that do very well against NB's without having to make any effort to tool the build to counter cloak specifically. But when you provide an absurd example of some imagined purely single target dot spec, then I'm providing the answer that even in that situation there is an option to easily counter cloak.
As for your second question, I need (or rather, its highly advantageous for me) to slot at least one undodgeable AOE to deal with medium armour builds. A gap closer to deal with streaking sorcerers. And a root/snare immunity to be able to deal with Templars.
Bro a gap closer? You mean like ambush the one that just got buffed with vulnerability that you will have on your bar regardless right? An aoe move, you mean the one like power extraction that just got a huge buff or even whirling blades that just got buffed as well, and a root/snare immunity such as double take which makes you take 25% less damage from all aoe moves and gives smare removal which NB should have on their bar?
So all your problems are ones that you have huge advantages running over other classes, you naturally counter classes lolol. Glad you know your own class here bud.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol
Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?
Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?
@LordTareq please tell me another successful MMORPG that let's you cast invisibility mid fight at will?
In other games this rouge style play you seek out to play has a cool down on the invis so you can only use it say once a minute or they make it so you can't go invis while you are in combat..
You can't compare that, as those other MMO's have very different designs. Rogues in WOW for example in my time at least could only vanish once every x minutes, true, but they had so much burst and CC they could burst people down while they were stunlocked. Does ESO have a 2 minute cooldown on your ability to break crowd control?
As a whole NB has everything it needs basically built into their class abilities. Nbs have to choose which of their class abilities they want (even making decision on which morphs) while some classes use 1 class move from their entire kit.
NB gets maim through shade
15% damage reduction plus a heal when you use a high damaging move
Major ward/resolve for cloaking (either morph one morph even grants you protection for 10 seconds)
High damaging finisher
High damaging class spamable
25% reduction of aoe abilities
A 6 person stun that locks them in place
All ultimates are very good
Now compare that to every other class in this game NB has tankiness through healing and mitigation, healing, strong burst damage.
So now that we established they are good at everything let's look at the advantages cloak has. You can go invisible at will, suppress dots on you, regain magic/Stam/health while invisible, you can have rally and vigor still heal you even though dots don't hurt you, you can dodge attacks such as wrecking blow, you can dodge ranged attacks by simply going invisible, along with all of that you can launch counter attacks that guarantees a crit and stun because you are coming out of cloak, you make people waste resources to uncloak you such as detect potions or spam aoe moves that cost double the amount of resources it takes you to cast 1 cloak. Now with all those advantages you don't see why it is bad for the game?
The fair trade-off would be while you are cloaked your Stam/magic Regen is turned off and you can not get heals while invisible since you suppress dots while you are in the form. Nothing worse than a NB starting a fight running away scared healing to full then returning to the fight and repeating it. But if that were to happen a the forumblades would cry about you are taking away their way to play.
But let's look at what nbs do, they take away the ability for people to play the way they want to play. What if I want to play a high dot damaging dk that only focuses on single target, doesn't work because cloak stops that type of gameplay.
What if I want to play only ranged moves on my templar, I can't because Everytime I cast a move you can cloak and take 0 damage from my move.
What about my bow/bow build that dk wings got nerfed for because it stops my gameplay oh wait cloak can dodge that too.
Yeah see how it is fair right? Now I've listed off many reasons why invis at free will creates very bad and unhealthy gameplay, tell me why it is healthy for the game in it's current state please?
It is evident from your post that you don't actually PvP much. A single target dot specced DK is more than capable of dealing with a cloak spamming NB. Even if for some reason he doesn't slot any of the DK AOE options that can decloak NB's quit handily, he still has the option to use a detection potion instead.
And if a stamblade can cloak to evade every single time your templar attacks with a ranged ability you are either doing something horribly wrong with your build or its a magblade who's literally only defense is the cloak.
You seem to be under the false impression that cloak is some sort of unbeatable I-win ability. It really is not.
IF YOU USE A DETECT POT is the key term from your 1st paragraph meaning you need to slot a specific move or potion to beat a NB. What does NB need to slot to beat another class besides it's basic normal loadout?
I am under the impression that wings prevented certain play styles and so does cloak. Again NB loadouts have not changed much since 2014 while every other starting game class has seen significant changes. NB gets "nerfed" but yet still use the move that got "nerfed" meanwhile another class move gets nerfed and it leaves their loadout completely.
Cloak isn't an I win button but as a person that plays NB I can sure use it defensively and in the same move go offensive after evading an attack. Anything that can dodge attacks provide invis, heal to full and leave and enter combat as you wish, guarantee crit, suppress dots, provides major ward and major resolve, avoid damage all in one move..... It's very powerful in the hands of a good player. Please tell me another move in the game that does all of that in 1 move?
Again a fair way to treat cloak in this game is much like elusive mist. You can not regan Mana while in the form. And make it so NB can not heal so if the leave combat 50% and choose to engage again they are at 50% coming out of stealth.
While I get the concern - your changes would affect magblade way more than the op stamblade that alternates between roll and cloak.
Cloak on magblade isn’t op at all because they have turd heals and they cannot evade as well as rollipolly builds.
It should stay the same if you are wearing 5 or more light pieces. That has been recommended before and doesn't kill magblade as they rely on it since they don't have everything stamina side has access to.
Fair1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »#ScrewStamBladeBuffMagBlade
Does it still need more buffs?0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »#ScrewStamBladeBuffMagBlade
Does it still need more buffs?
Well so long as there is a brigade dedicated to no nerfs period, and no sorc nerfs in particular... the yes it need buffs to be just as O.P. because obviously you should buff 11 specs up to the power of the 1 overperforming spec...
#SaltyProNerfling0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »#ScrewStamBladeBuffMagBlade
Does it still need more buffs?
Well so long as there is a brigade dedicated to no nerfs period, and no sorc nerfs in particular... the yes it need buffs to be just as O.P. because obviously you should buff 11 specs up to the power of the 1 overperforming spec...
#SaltyProNerfling
Ohhhhh well if we are comparing to brokeSorc... yes everything needs a buff0