Piercing Mark

LordTareq

So with more and more people slotting this skill, it's absolutely toxicity is starting to become evident. With no cost, the skill is easily recast every 6 seconds to permanently prevent other NB's from escaping. When an enemy NB goes for you and has this slotted its basically a death sentence to non-brawler NB's and yet another hard counter to cloak. In addition there is no visual indicator that shows when the 6 second 'reveal' wears off, meaning you will waste valuable magicka guessing whether your cloak will be effective. At the very least the duration of the reveal should be reduced to 3 or 4 seconds.

Insco851

Meh.

Let’s not nerf this too soon. Maybe it’ll come full circle and give nbs a heal buff they desperately need instead.

Thogard

The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol

Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?

LordTareq

Thogard wrote: »

The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol

Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?

Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?

Rikumaru

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

Insco851

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

Fur_like_snow

Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.

Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.

brandonv516

LordTareq wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The only counter to a NB’s cloak is a skill that only NBs have access to lol

Might I suggest playing a real class instead of the ganker type?

Dumb comment. The assassin/rogue playstyle is traditionally popular in mmorpgs and the stealth playstyle offers something unique compared to other classes. Taking that option away just dumbs the game further down. And what would qualify as a 'real' class? The 20k+ resist shield stacking pet sorcerer? Or perhaps one of the new easymode 'brawler' copy/paste specs?

Basically whatever he is using.

TriangularChicken

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.

Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.

The "bias streamer" at least plays solo and doesn't zerg surf, my biggest respect for not being a surfing sheep. Can't say that about you.

Back on topic. Why is this skill toxic? It simply gives counterplay to invisibility, so do invis pots and AOE abilities? Do you want them all removed from the game?

Rikumaru

Insco851 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

I mean you say it's the easiest to kill but in reality it's a complete nightmare to actually get on to them and kill them in a timely manner while you have multiple people beating on you (yes you can use a det pot but this also uses a 45s cooldown which could be used for something far more useful such as lingering). It's just super frustrating to fight against and I have zero sympathy for the nightblades who completely rely on cloak for their defense (especially the gankblades).

Insco851

Rikumaru wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

I mean you say it's the easiest to kill but in reality it's a complete nightmare to actually get on to them and kill them in a timely manner while you have multiple people beating on you (yes you can use a det pot but this also uses a 45s cooldown which could be used for something far more useful such as lingering). It's just super frustrating to fight against and I have zero sympathy for the nightblades who completely rely on cloak for their defense (especially the gankblades).

My main point is the ones that fully rely on cloak die in a single GCD typically. Now obviously it’s tougher if you have multiple folks on you. Xv1’d- what do you expect, wouldn’t matter the specs, you are at a disadvantage.

The good stamblades that dodge roll+cloak are a different story.

lukoi

Insco851 wrote: »

My main point is the ones that fully rely on cloak die in a single GCD typically. Now obviously it’s tougher if you have multiple folks on you. Xv1’d- what do you expect, wouldn’t matter the specs, you are at a disadvantage.

The good stamblades that dodge roll+cloak are a different story.

Couldn't have said it better. Blaming cloakblades (I play two NB of my three chars, neither of which is cloak based gankblade btw) for challenges during a 1vX fight is a pretty weak pillar for an argument to rest on.

LordTareq

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Back on topic. Why is this skill toxic? It simply gives counterplay to invisibility, so do invis pots and AOE abilities? Do you want them all removed from the game?

Because it has something like a 60 meter range, is free to use,

Rikumaru wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

I mean you say it's the easiest to kill but in reality it's a complete nightmare to actually get on to them and kill them in a timely manner while you have multiple people beating on you (yes you can use a det pot but this also uses a 45s cooldown which could be used for something far more useful such as lingering). It's just super frustrating to fight against and I have zero sympathy for the nightblades who completely rely on cloak for their defense (especially the gankblades).

You can't blame a class for your failure to play properly. If you can't deal with cloak either you or your build needs to improve. And don't come with the "I shouldn't have to slot skills to adapt to 1 class" bull people spout, because slotting specific skills to deal/cope with specific enemy playstyles one might encounter is something any competent PvP'er does.

Piercing Mark actually pushes NB's more in the direction of gankblades. Since taking too long to kill becomes a further liability as you might get marked, may as well make sure kills happen within 2 GCD's.

ps. I'm anxiously awaiting other classes getting a mirror of Piercing Mark. Templars get to prevent other Templars from using healing skills for 6 seconds. DK's get a mark that prevents DK's from using their ultimates for 6 seconds. And Sorcerers get a mark that prevents shields from being cast for 6 seconds. All of course without cost and can indefinitely be reapplied. Seems fair right?

Mazbt

LordTareq wrote: »

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Back on topic. Why is this skill toxic? It simply gives counterplay to invisibility, so do invis pots and AOE abilities? Do you want them all removed from the game?

Because it has something like a 60 meter range, is free to use,

Rikumaru wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

I mean you say it's the easiest to kill but in reality it's a complete nightmare to actually get on to them and kill them in a timely manner while you have multiple people beating on you (yes you can use a det pot but this also uses a 45s cooldown which could be used for something far more useful such as lingering). It's just super frustrating to fight against and I have zero sympathy for the nightblades who completely rely on cloak for their defense (especially the gankblades).

You can't blame a class for your failure to play properly. If you can't deal with cloak either you or your build needs to improve. And don't come with the "I shouldn't have to slot skills to adapt to 1 class" bull people spout, because slotting specific skills to deal/cope with specific enemy playstyles one might encounter is something any competent PvP'er does.

Piercing Mark actually pushes NB's more in the direction of gankblades. Since taking too long to kill becomes a further liability as you might get marked, may as well make sure kills happen within 2 GCD's.

ps. I'm anxiously awaiting other classes getting a mirror of Piercing Mark. Templars get to prevent other Templars from using healing skills for 6 seconds. DK's get a mark that prevents DK's from using their ultimates for 6 seconds. And Sorcerers get a mark that prevents shields from being cast for 6 seconds. All of course without cost and can indefinitely be reapplied. Seems fair right?

Okay, I'll bite. I'd be perfectly okay with that. You got to actually slot the ability, and take up a spot, for a very specific thing that may not be relevant all the time. And how is that behavior toxic, but not ganking or resetting fights with cloak?

lukoi

I don't believe you can slot enough skills, sets, pots to cover every single base -- at least not from what I've seen.

And even if you come close, you're going to be better at dealing with some opponents over others. Between shields, gap closers, cloaks, reflects, ranged attacks, CC's etc - there is always going to be a dip in your ability to fully mitigate things and that's where the skill in both play as well as situational awareness comes into play.

Chelo

LordTareq wrote: »

So with more and more people slotting this skill, it's absolutely toxicity is starting to become evident. With no cost, the skill is easily recast every 6 seconds to permanently prevent other NB's from escaping. When an enemy NB goes for you and has this slotted its basically a death sentence to non-brawler NB's and yet another hard counter to cloak. In addition there is no visual indicator that shows when the 6 second 'reveal' wears off, meaning you will waste valuable magicka guessing whether your cloak will be effective. At the very least the duration of the reveal should be reduced to 3 or 4 seconds.

Lol are you for real? I've been a MagNB for 5 years and I can perma cloak pretty easy. Honestly this skill need a buff, the reveal need to last for the entire 30 seconds like it was before...

Right now when I get marked, I just retrieve for 5 seconds and that's it, I can go back to perma cloak again... And this is coming from someone with 55k magicka on PvP.

At least make it last 10 or 15 seconds... Make me feel threatening by this skill again !

Chelo

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

brandonv516

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Rikumaru

LordTareq wrote: »

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Back on topic. Why is this skill toxic? It simply gives counterplay to invisibility, so do invis pots and AOE abilities? Do you want them all removed from the game?

Because it has something like a 60 meter range, is free to use,

Rikumaru wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Good. Now the 90% of NB's I see need to rely on more than just cloak to survive. Too many NB's I see who cloak and sneak until your fighting someone else before trying to engage on you. And if you try to fight back, they just run away and do the same thing over and over again.

The cloak spam version of NB is the absolute easiest to kill.

The dodge roll+cloak NB will hardly be effected by Mark anyways.

Detect pot ftw

I mean you say it's the easiest to kill but in reality it's a complete nightmare to actually get on to them and kill them in a timely manner while you have multiple people beating on you (yes you can use a det pot but this also uses a 45s cooldown which could be used for something far more useful such as lingering). It's just super frustrating to fight against and I have zero sympathy for the nightblades who completely rely on cloak for their defense (especially the gankblades).

You can't blame a class for your failure to play properly. If you can't deal with cloak either you or your build needs to improve. And don't come with the "I shouldn't have to slot skills to adapt to 1 class" bull people spout, because slotting specific skills to deal/cope with specific enemy playstyles one might encounter is something any competent PvP'er does.

Piercing Mark actually pushes NB's more in the direction of gankblades. Since taking too long to kill becomes a further liability as you might get marked, may as well make sure kills happen within 2 GCD's.

ps. I'm anxiously awaiting other classes getting a mirror of Piercing Mark. Templars get to prevent other Templars from using healing skills for 6 seconds. DK's get a mark that prevents DK's from using their ultimates for 6 seconds. And Sorcerers get a mark that prevents shields from being cast for 6 seconds. All of course without cost and can indefinitely be reapplied. Seems fair right?

I mean I do slot counters, aka det pots in the past and now piercing mark with this current patch. Point is, it's toxic to play against a perma cloaker because they are literally not PvPing you but repeatedly trying to gank you while you try to PvP. Also comparing cloak to ultimates / healing / shield abilities is hilarious. Not trying to say cloak is OP, just the fact it's a toxic skill in it's current state.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

LOL. This guy.

fred4

Mark is annoying, but it wears off quickly and only the NB can see you, thus it is worth continuing to cloak. Detection potions are, honestly, 10 times worse, but then again I use them myself to kill other nightblades.

Rikumaru, I get that you hate nightblades, but I'm guessing you never played a cloaking NB yourself? [EDIT: Oops, I see you mentioned Mark, so you do play ... a brawler NB, I'm guessing.]

The original reason I play one is that you avoid groups you cannot possibly win against. If you engage and die, it's typically your own fault. You shouldn't get steamrolled by a zerg. I do play this build, because it's so freeing to be permanently in cloak and have the movement speed of a melee magblade. I have high sustain to enable that playstyle and I run a proc build, so you'll not doubt hate me even more. Just to say, the downside is that I am extremely squishy, lacking both healing and good shields. My raw damage isn't good either (unlike stamblade). The ganking playstyle is not mere cowardice, it is a limitation of the spec. If I engaged you squarely, you would melt me.

As someone who predominantly plays solo, I value the option of playing nightblade, because there is hardly a fair fight, in Cyrodiil, for a single player. You mostly run into groups that would kill you. How many skilled 1vXers are there really, who are not magsorcs or nightblades? Think about it. Most people run at least in small groups.

Snipers and nightblades that only engage targets already under pressure are usually newer players, who are easily killed. I admit that I get a fair amount of mileage from that as well, but I jump into melee fights and put myself at great risk. I cannot stay. I'm not tanky enough. I guess you'll still consider that a toxic and dishonest playstyle, but please understand that this is not easy going. It's a very binary proposition. Once you're out of cloak, you're very vulnerable.

Mayrael

I was posting about it in PTS but nobody gives a [snip] about magblades, because magblades almost extinct. This is no cost skill disabling magblades main defense, thanks to no cost now stamblades can completely shutdown magblade almost as easy as when it lasted 30s. Can the other morph disable roll dodge? Just in terms of balance.
ZOS balancing team has no idea what they are doing, they don't PvP at all. While magblade without cloak in any 1vX situation is dead, stamblade still has roll dodge, heals, better mitigation, better burst to turn the odds, so yeah let's [snip] magblades even more. No cloak, no heal, no burst, shade bugged to make it sure you won't get away.

Glad I have unsubbed and didn't bought Elsweyr, I'm done with balance patch rollercoaster and with this game, just came for salt.


[Edit to remove profanity]

Chelo

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...

It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Knootewoot

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Don’t listen to the bias streamer. I’ve yet to see him use any build other 7th/fury/BS. Let alone a non-meta medium armor build.

Back on topic. They did reduce the time from 30 seconds to 6 so it’s not as bad as it once was. Ultimately NBs are their own worst enemy but learning to rely on cloak less and LOS more can make the difference. Personally I thought SA was fine before the patch and didn’t require a change but ZoS had other ideas so now you’re seeing mark more often.

The "bias streamer" at least plays solo and doesn't zerg surf, my biggest respect for not being a surfing sheep. Can't say that about you.

You do know pvp is mostly a team game. The term "zerg surfer" is used to many. Lots of people play with friends or guilds. It's not a solo free for all game, but anyone can play how they want.
But if everyone would play solo, there would be no coordination for attacks on keeps. And the game would lose its point.

rabidmyers

adapt

brandonv516

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...

It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Nope.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...

It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

LOL get out of here with this dude. “This is coming from a permacloaker”. 😂😂😂

Chelo

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...

It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

LOL get out of here with this dude. “This is coming from a permacloaker”. 😂😂😂

Piercing Mark as a detection skill is trash... Every single AoE skill is better, mage light is better, flare is better, etc, etc. Because those skills reveal the NB to EVERYONE.

If you want to keep the pressure against a decent NB, even detect pots are better because they last for 15 seconds, that's triple the duration of Piercing Mark.

So honestly, make it last at least 15 seconds (same as detect pots) or keep the 5 seconds but reveal the NB to everyone...

And for the fifth time, Im a cloak abuser who wants to counter another cloak abusers...

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Chelo wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I forget to say, another idea that I thought about Piercing Mark, is that if the skill still going to be revealing just for 5 seconds, make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

Terrible idea. It's already bad enough being free of charge.

Im a MagNB with 55k magicka... 5 years using cloak in PvP, if I tell you the skill is too easy to avoid it's because it's damn easy to avoid... This is coming from a perma cloaker...

It should last longer or at least make EVERYONE able to see the NB...

LOL get out of here with this dude. “This is coming from a permacloaker”. 😂😂😂

Piercing Mark as a detection skill is trash... Every single AoE skill is better, mage light is better, flare is better, etc, etc. Because those skills reveal the NB to EVERYONE.

If you want to keep the pressure against a decent NB, even detect pots are better because they last for 15 seconds, that's triple the duration of Piercing Mark.

So honestly, make it last at least 15 seconds (same as detect pots) or keep the 5 seconds but reveal the NB to everyone...

And for the fifth time, Im a cloak abuser who wants to counter another cloak abusers...

If your sole reasoning behind this is to “counter another cloak abuser”...maybe...there’s a very cheap ultimate...that doesn’t allow a nightblade to go stealth?

Insco851

Mayrael wrote: »

I was posting about it in PTS but nobody gives a [snip] about magblades, because magblades almost extinct. This is no cost skill disabling magblades main defense, thanks to no cost now stamblades can completely shutdown magblade almost as easy as when it lasted 30s. Can the other morph disable roll dodge? Just in terms of balance.
ZOS balancing team has no idea what they are doing, they don't PvP at all. While magblade without cloak in any 1vX situation is dead, stamblade still has roll dodge, heals, better mitigation, better burst to turn the odds, so yeah let's [snip] magblades even more. No cloak, no heal, no burst, shade bugged to make it sure you won't get away.

Glad I have unsubbed and didn't bought Elsweyr, I'm done with balance patch rollercoaster and with this game, just came for salt.

Dark cloak+Shields+Shade+Undo+Invis Lingering Health pots+Troll King

Or

shadowy disguise spam and deal with detect skills, aoe’s and Pots. +Way more bags from salty players.

Both are viable

Irylia

When nb’s Complain about a nb only skill for revealing stealthed units. And then other nb’s slot mark to reveal pesky nb stealthers.
When the same class both understands the frustration of each skill and slots a one dimensional nearly useless in every other engagement mark.
Interesting