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What is the point of "game dead" posts?
phermitgb
✭✭✭✭✭
obviously, there are some...expectable...arguments for/against this particular kind of post, but honest truth, I'm wondering, WHY...why would anyone ask about state of game of almost any game, ESO or any other game? And what I mean is...what kind of answer/range of answers are you expecting to receive, and how would that (if at all) change your behavior?
I mean, first of all, when someone asks..."is a game dead?" - what kind of useful information do they expect to receive? How many players of the overall community do they expect to respond? Do they suddenly imagine that everyone that ever peruses the forums will say to themselves "oh, someone wants to know if I play...I should respond in the affirmative so that they receive accurate information to guide their future behavior?" or something along those lines? What percentage of the overall community do they expect will respond? what percentage of the active community do they "need"? to respond to feel that they got some accurate kind of representation?
And what is your cut-off point? At what point do you decide for yourself that a game is "dead", by which I mean, I assume, no longer worth your time playing. I mean, first of all - ESO in particular, but lots of MMO's to varying degrees, have a large degree of single-player content, to one extent or another. So, even if you were, by some wild stretch of probability, the ONLY PERSON PLAYING...would the game still be worth it?
Now, obviously, this response becomes more important for people whose game experience satisfaction hinges on multi-player activities - battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, group content, even player generated RP content - if there aren't enough people playing, there isn't a community for you to interact with. Sure. But, how many people do you actually "need"? Let's say you only have 1000 people playing ESO at a particular time (which, I assume, is near-death for most MMO's). A THOUSAND PEOPLE...that's still a lot of people. Sure, the game, as an industry standard, might be "dead" in the sense of subscriptions or concurrent players or word-of-mouth advertising and/or whatever, but...you've still got ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE online with you at any given moment...barring server pop limitations and various other factors. A WHOLE THOUSAND PEOPLE, and you only need 4 to make a group - of course, the people in the group may not be the kinds of people that you LIKE...but they're still people.
I'm serious - not a criticism or an attack inherently - I honestly want to know, when people post "is such-and-such game dead?" - what exactly kind of information do they expect to receive (the range of possible responses, I mean - not any one particular response), and how exactly would they expect that to alter their behavior? I mean, if you posted in eso forums the question "Is ESO dead?" - how many people would have to say "yes" to convince you that you never want to try playing? Or alternatively, how many people would have to respond "NO! The game ISN'T dead!!" before you decided to try to play it. Would it a be a majority rules? Would it be a certain cut-off number? Is there a minimum number of responses you'd have to accept before giving the general community credence for making any judgement at all? What I mean is, if only 100 people responded...would that be enough to make a decision? Or do you need a minimum of 200 responses? 500? 10000?
If people haven't honestly evaluated what their cutoff criteria are, is asking the general community whether or not a "game is dead?" any kind of useful at all? Do people's personal critieria for what constitutes a "dead game" stop other people from playing the game? or encourage other people to play the game out of obstinancy or some sense of contrariness?
My point is, honest question - when people ask "is such and such a DEAD GAME?" - What kind of answer and response are they thinking will happen? Because personally, I don't see it. I've never cared if other people play a game, I've only ever cared..."DO I ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME"? Sometimes, SOMETIMES...that hinges on whether other people make the game experience more entertaining then when I play it alone - and on other occasions, I couldn't care less how many other people are playing - I just wanna have fun with what happens to be available.
Yes, there are certain fundamental game factors that hinge on other player participation - BATTLEGROUNDS, to some extent or another, IMPERIAL CITY...and other such stuff. But if you had 100, just 100 people interacting in Imperial city, wouldn't that be more than enough? Honestly? How many people do you "NEED", engaged in activities, to give your own activities a sense of meaning and purpose.
My point is wandering - but, I like to think my point is - if you post a "is this game dead" post, or something along those lines - what exactly is it you're asking us? The community, I mean?
I mean, first of all, when someone asks..."is a game dead?" - what kind of useful information do they expect to receive? How many players of the overall community do they expect to respond? Do they suddenly imagine that everyone that ever peruses the forums will say to themselves "oh, someone wants to know if I play...I should respond in the affirmative so that they receive accurate information to guide their future behavior?" or something along those lines? What percentage of the overall community do they expect will respond? what percentage of the active community do they "need"? to respond to feel that they got some accurate kind of representation?
And what is your cut-off point? At what point do you decide for yourself that a game is "dead", by which I mean, I assume, no longer worth your time playing. I mean, first of all - ESO in particular, but lots of MMO's to varying degrees, have a large degree of single-player content, to one extent or another. So, even if you were, by some wild stretch of probability, the ONLY PERSON PLAYING...would the game still be worth it?
Now, obviously, this response becomes more important for people whose game experience satisfaction hinges on multi-player activities - battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, group content, even player generated RP content - if there aren't enough people playing, there isn't a community for you to interact with. Sure. But, how many people do you actually "need"? Let's say you only have 1000 people playing ESO at a particular time (which, I assume, is near-death for most MMO's). A THOUSAND PEOPLE...that's still a lot of people. Sure, the game, as an industry standard, might be "dead" in the sense of subscriptions or concurrent players or word-of-mouth advertising and/or whatever, but...you've still got ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE online with you at any given moment...barring server pop limitations and various other factors. A WHOLE THOUSAND PEOPLE, and you only need 4 to make a group - of course, the people in the group may not be the kinds of people that you LIKE...but they're still people.
I'm serious - not a criticism or an attack inherently - I honestly want to know, when people post "is such-and-such game dead?" - what exactly kind of information do they expect to receive (the range of possible responses, I mean - not any one particular response), and how exactly would they expect that to alter their behavior? I mean, if you posted in eso forums the question "Is ESO dead?" - how many people would have to say "yes" to convince you that you never want to try playing? Or alternatively, how many people would have to respond "NO! The game ISN'T dead!!" before you decided to try to play it. Would it a be a majority rules? Would it be a certain cut-off number? Is there a minimum number of responses you'd have to accept before giving the general community credence for making any judgement at all? What I mean is, if only 100 people responded...would that be enough to make a decision? Or do you need a minimum of 200 responses? 500? 10000?
If people haven't honestly evaluated what their cutoff criteria are, is asking the general community whether or not a "game is dead?" any kind of useful at all? Do people's personal critieria for what constitutes a "dead game" stop other people from playing the game? or encourage other people to play the game out of obstinancy or some sense of contrariness?
My point is, honest question - when people ask "is such and such a DEAD GAME?" - What kind of answer and response are they thinking will happen? Because personally, I don't see it. I've never cared if other people play a game, I've only ever cared..."DO I ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME"? Sometimes, SOMETIMES...that hinges on whether other people make the game experience more entertaining then when I play it alone - and on other occasions, I couldn't care less how many other people are playing - I just wanna have fun with what happens to be available.
Yes, there are certain fundamental game factors that hinge on other player participation - BATTLEGROUNDS, to some extent or another, IMPERIAL CITY...and other such stuff. But if you had 100, just 100 people interacting in Imperial city, wouldn't that be more than enough? Honestly? How many people do you "NEED", engaged in activities, to give your own activities a sense of meaning and purpose.
My point is wandering - but, I like to think my point is - if you post a "is this game dead" post, or something along those lines - what exactly is it you're asking us? The community, I mean?
"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk
6
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phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk0 -
wishlist14✭✭✭✭✭
✭obviously, there are some...expectable...arguments for/against this particular kind of post, but honest truth, I'm wondering, WHY...why would anyone ask about state of game of almost any game, ESO or any other game? And what I mean is...what kind of answer/range of answers are you expecting to receive, and how would that (if at all) change your behavior?
I mean, first of all, when someone asks..."is a game dead?" - what kind of useful information do they expect to receive? How many players of the overall community do they expect to respond? Do they suddenly imagine that everyone that ever peruses the forums will say to themselves "oh, someone wants to know if I play...I should respond in the affirmative so that they receive accurate information to guide their future behavior?" or something along those lines? What percentage of the overall community do they expect will respond? what percentage of the active community do they "need"? to respond to feel that they got some accurate kind of representation?
And what is your cut-off point? At what point do you decide for yourself that a game is "dead", by which I mean, I assume, no longer worth your time playing. I mean, first of all - ESO in particular, but lots of MMO's to varying degrees, have a large degree of single-player content, to one extent or another. So, even if you were, by some wild stretch of probability, the ONLY PERSON PLAYING...would the game still be worth it?
Now, obviously, this response becomes more important for people whose game experience satisfaction hinges on multi-player activities - battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, group content, even player generated RP content - if there aren't enough people playing, there isn't a community for you to interact with. Sure. But, how many people do you actually "need"? Let's say you only have 1000 people playing ESO at a particular time (which, I assume, is near-death for most MMO's). A THOUSAND PEOPLE...that's still a lot of people. Sure, the game, as an industry standard, might be "dead" in the sense of subscriptions or concurrent players or word-of-mouth advertising and/or whatever, but...you've still got ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE online with you at any given moment...barring server pop limitations and various other factors. A WHOLE THOUSAND PEOPLE, and you only need 4 to make a group - of course, the people in the group may not be the kinds of people that you LIKE...but they're still people.
I'm serious - not a criticism or an attack inherently - I honestly want to know, when people post "is such-and-such game dead?" - what exactly kind of information do they expect to receive (the range of possible responses, I mean - not any one particular response), and how exactly would they expect that to alter their behavior? I mean, if you posted in eso forums the question "Is ESO dead?" - how many people would have to say "yes" to convince you that you never want to try playing? Or alternatively, how many people would have to respond "NO! The game ISN'T dead!!" before you decided to try to play it. Would it a be a majority rules? Would it be a certain cut-off number? Is there a minimum number of responses you'd have to accept before giving the general community credence for making any judgement at all? What I mean is, if only 100 people responded...would that be enough to make a decision? Or do you need a minimum of 200 responses? 500? 10000?
If people haven't honestly evaluated what their cutoff criteria are, is asking the general community whether or not a "game is dead?" any kind of useful at all? Do people's personal critieria for what constitutes a "dead game" stop other people from playing the game? or encourage other people to play the game out of obstinancy or some sense of contrariness?
My point is, honest question - when people ask "is such and such a DEAD GAME?" - What kind of answer and response are they thinking will happen? Because personally, I don't see it. I've never cared if other people play a game, I've only ever cared..."DO I ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME"? Sometimes, SOMETIMES...that hinges on whether other people make the game experience more entertaining then when I play it alone - and on other occasions, I couldn't care less how many other people are playing - I just wanna have fun with what happens to be available.
Yes, there are certain fundamental game factors that hinge on other player participation - BATTLEGROUNDS, to some extent or another, IMPERIAL CITY...and other such stuff. But if you had 100, just 100 people interacting in Imperial city, wouldn't that be more than enough? Honestly? How many people do you "NEED", engaged in activities, to give your own activities a sense of meaning and purpose.
My point is wandering - but, I like to think my point is - if you post a "is this game dead" post, or something along those lines - what exactly is it you're asking us? The community, I mean?
I agree with this 100%. Well said 😊1 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭wishlist14 wrote: »
I agree with this 100%. Well said 😊
While I appreciate your...support. My statement was actually intended as a question, not a statement, although I suppose I can see how some would see it as a statement in and of itself."There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?
They are coming from a dead game is what I was joking about. Also other thing is they are simply trying to find out if it's worth this time. Many games out there are particularly dead or have low population.2 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But is a game truly dead? Or does it still exist in some sort of a platonic form on a higher plane?"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.2 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?
They are coming from a dead game is what I was joking about. Also other thing is they are simply trying to find out if it's worth this time. Many games out there are particularly dead or have low population.
All right, so, I'll admit that I've always been suspicious of the "low pop" argument. How many people do you actually need present to convince yourself that a game is "worth your time"? Now, I'll admit, that if you're particularly invested in group activities, like dungeons, BG's, PVP or RP, having a...significant quantity...population...would be important. EXCEPT...How many people need to be present for BG's/dungeons/trials? I mean, somewhere between 4/12, right? If you've still got 1,000 people playing...I mean, how hard is it ACTUALLY to find four people to run a dungeon?
Now, admittedly, as you narrow the range of qualifications, of the kinds of people you WANT to do multiplayer activities with, sure, the likelihood of finding the people you need reduces. But, I generally lay that particular problem at the feet of people who are picky about the people they play with. After all, you are creating an ENTIRELY PERSONAL array of limitations for the people you're willing to play with - these aren't inherent or universal limitations - they're personal.
But yes, I guess you've sort of hit the head on the proverbial nail as far as my inherent question - how LOW does population have to be before YOU consider a game to be "dead"? I mean, what's the LIVING population number? and why is THAT number any better than any number made up by any other person. Is it an issue of time to group up for activity? If so, is that a population issue? or is it a groupfinder issue? or is it a player personally imposed limitation issue (as in, I only play with sword and board tanks at cp 500 or higher kinda issue?)Edited by phermitgb on June 3, 2019 6:54AM"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?
They are coming from a dead game is what I was joking about. Also other thing is they are simply trying to find out if it's worth this time. Many games out there are particularly dead or have low population.
All right, so, I'll admit that I've always been suspicious of the "low pop" argument. How many people do you actually need present to convince yourself that a game is "worth your time"? Now, I'll admit, that if you're particularly invested in group activities, like dungeons, BG's, PVP or RP, having a...significant quantity...population...would be important. EXCEPT...How many people need to be present for BG's/dungeons/trials? I mean, somewhere between 4/12, right? If you've still got 1,000 people playing...I mean, how hard is it ACTUALLY to find four people to run a dungeon?
Now, admittedly, as you narrow the range of qualifications, of the kinds of people you WANT to do multiplayer activities with, sure, the likelihood of finding the people you need reduces. But, I generally lay that particular problem at the feet of people who are picky about the people they play with. After all, you are creating an ENTIRELY PERSONAL array of limitations for the people you're willing to play with - these are inherent or universal limitations - they're personal.
But yes, I guess you've sort of hit the head on the proverbial nail as far as my inherent question - how LOW does population have to be before YOU consider a game to be "dead"? I mean, what's the LIVING population number? and why is THAT number any better than any number made up by any other person. Is it an issue of time to group up for activity? If so, is that a population issue? or is it a groupfinder issue? or is it a player personally imposed limitation issue (as in, I only play with sword and board tanks at cp 500 or higher kinda issue?)
I was playing a online animal game. The population was 8 people in huge map.
I think you are wrong though. It's simply researching to see if something is worth your time. People make judgements on answers they get. The fact that we are offended by people asking just goes to show how alive the game is here.0 -
perolord✭✭✭obviously, there are some...expectable...arguments for/against this particular kind of post, but honest truth, I'm wondering, WHY...why would anyone ask about state of game of almost any game, ESO or any other game? And what I mean is...what kind of answer/range of answers are you expecting to receive, and how would that (if at all) change your behavior?
I mean, first of all, when someone asks..."is a game dead?" - what kind of useful information do they expect to receive? How many players of the overall community do they expect to respond? Do they suddenly imagine that everyone that ever peruses the forums will say to themselves "oh, someone wants to know if I play...I should respond in the affirmative so that they receive accurate information to guide their future behavior?" or something along those lines? What percentage of the overall community do they expect will respond? what percentage of the active community do they "need"? to respond to feel that they got some accurate kind of representation?
And what is your cut-off point? At what point do you decide for yourself that a game is "dead", by which I mean, I assume, no longer worth your time playing. I mean, first of all - ESO in particular, but lots of MMO's to varying degrees, have a large degree of single-player content, to one extent or another. So, even if you were, by some wild stretch of probability, the ONLY PERSON PLAYING...would the game still be worth it?
Now, obviously, this response becomes more important for people whose game experience satisfaction hinges on multi-player activities - battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, group content, even player generated RP content - if there aren't enough people playing, there isn't a community for you to interact with. Sure. But, how many people do you actually "need"? Let's say you only have 1000 people playing ESO at a particular time (which, I assume, is near-death for most MMO's). A THOUSAND PEOPLE...that's still a lot of people. Sure, the game, as an industry standard, might be "dead" in the sense of subscriptions or concurrent players or word-of-mouth advertising and/or whatever, but...you've still got ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE online with you at any given moment...barring server pop limitations and various other factors. A WHOLE THOUSAND PEOPLE, and you only need 4 to make a group - of course, the people in the group may not be the kinds of people that you LIKE...but they're still people.
I'm serious - not a criticism or an attack inherently - I honestly want to know, when people post "is such-and-such game dead?" - what exactly kind of information do they expect to receive (the range of possible responses, I mean - not any one particular response), and how exactly would they expect that to alter their behavior? I mean, if you posted in eso forums the question "Is ESO dead?" - how many people would have to say "yes" to convince you that you never want to try playing? Or alternatively, how many people would have to respond "NO! The game ISN'T dead!!" before you decided to try to play it. Would it a be a majority rules? Would it be a certain cut-off number? Is there a minimum number of responses you'd have to accept before giving the general community credence for making any judgement at all? What I mean is, if only 100 people responded...would that be enough to make a decision? Or do you need a minimum of 200 responses? 500? 10000?
If people haven't honestly evaluated what their cutoff criteria are, is asking the general community whether or not a "game is dead?" any kind of useful at all? Do people's personal critieria for what constitutes a "dead game" stop other people from playing the game? or encourage other people to play the game out of obstinancy or some sense of contrariness?
My point is, honest question - when people ask "is such and such a DEAD GAME?" - What kind of answer and response are they thinking will happen? Because personally, I don't see it. I've never cared if other people play a game, I've only ever cared..."DO I ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME"? Sometimes, SOMETIMES...that hinges on whether other people make the game experience more entertaining then when I play it alone - and on other occasions, I couldn't care less how many other people are playing - I just wanna have fun with what happens to be available.
Yes, there are certain fundamental game factors that hinge on other player participation - BATTLEGROUNDS, to some extent or another, IMPERIAL CITY...and other such stuff. But if you had 100, just 100 people interacting in Imperial city, wouldn't that be more than enough? Honestly? How many people do you "NEED", engaged in activities, to give your own activities a sense of meaning and purpose.
My point is wandering - but, I like to think my point is - if you post a "is this game dead" post, or something along those lines - what exactly is it you're asking us? The community, I mean?
Ppl are asking if the game is dead for one reason only... imagine comming from game that is dead and you used to play it for 10 years...
Now imagine that you start playing game and you lvl up to max start end game and then you see that the game is dead... you cant fint raids, you cant pvp,....
That is th reason, ppl that come to play new MMO want to start in game, that is healthy with good/strong player base.. not game when you see player once in 2 hours or so...
0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭[quote="Tasear;c-6104479"
I was playing a online animal game. The population was 8 people in huge map.
I think you are wrong though. It's simply researching to see if something is worth your time. People make judgements on answers they get. The fact that we are offended by people asking just goes to show how alive the game is here.[/quote]
I'm not entirely sure how I can be "wrong" to ask a question, but if you assume that I'm taking a position by asking the question, I'll give that a pass. I get it...people, want, some kind of...reassurance, I guess...that any particular game is "worth their time", although I'll admit, that seems like a strange and arbitrary position to take. I mean, what makes ANY thing worth your time? Some people collect stamps. I find that BIZARRE!!...but that's me. I DON'T collect stamps. To the people that DO collect stamps, I'm sure it makes a great deal of sense, somehow, personally. Just not me.
The same things I imagine goes for videogames. I like vidoegames. I like certain features more than other features. I, personally HATE...HATE HATE HATE...crafting systems. In almost every video game...ever. I just HATE them.
Hate...hate...hate...blood...blood...blood...
My point is, and my question is...if you ask a question, I assume...that the answer, should MEAN something, to you. You shouldn't, IMO, ask a question, if you've already created an answer in your head. If you ASK a question, you're HOPING for someone to either change your mind, or solidify a concept in your mind that you haven't quite decided on already.
I guess, now that I'm sorta thinking it through, suspicious - I feel like when someone asks "is such-and-such a DEAD game", what they REALLY want to hear is some kind of validation of whatever position they already hold, either for/against the current state of the game, rather than actually wanting someone to change their mind, or help them decide on a position...or provide them with a sense of truth. I mean honestly - if you were to ask "is such and such" a game...DEAD?...what would be your definitive criteria for YES/NO? I mean, if "I" made an rpg, and I had data on 10,000 users...and YOU asked...is my game "dead" - if I told you I had more than a thousand users (which would be true given the above scenario), would you believe the game was dead? If I told you 10,000? If, for whatever reason, I gave you, personally, concrete info about the number of accounts my game had, would you believe the game was worth your time? Would you believe me? or imagine that I was *** you to get you to sub? etc...etc...
I guess my ultimate point is...when people ask such a question...do they really expect to get an answer that will define their choice? Or have they already made their choice, and the "question" is actually a statement? or accusation?
"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[quote="Tasear;c-6104479"
I was playing a online animal game. The population was 8 people in huge map.
I think you are wrong though. It's simply researching to see if something is worth your time. People make judgements on answers they get. The fact that we are offended by people asking just goes to show how alive the game is here.
I'm not entirely sure how I can be "wrong" to ask a question, but if you assume that I'm taking a position by asking the question, I'll give that a pass. I get it...people, want, some kind of...reassurance, I guess...that any particular game is "worth their time", although I'll admit, that seems like a strange and arbitrary position to take. I mean, what makes ANY thing worth your time? Some people collect stamps. I find that BIZARRE!!...but that's me. I DON'T collect stamps. To the people that DO collect stamps, I'm sure it makes a great deal of sense, somehow, personally. Just not me.
The same things I imagine goes for videogames. I like vidoegames. I like certain features more than other features. I, personally HATE...HATE HATE HATE...crafting systems. In almost every video game...ever. I just HATE them.
Hate...hate...hate...blood...blood...blood...
My point is, and my question is...if you ask a question, I assume...that the answer, should MEAN something, to you. You shouldn't, IMO, ask a question, if you've already created an answer in your head. If you ASK a question, you're HOPING for someone to either change your mind, or solidify a concept in your mind that you haven't quite decided on already.
I guess, now that I'm sorta thinking it through, suspicious - I feel like when someone asks "is such-and-such a DEAD game", what they REALLY want to hear is some kind of validation of whatever position they already hold, either for/against the current state of the game, rather than actually wanting someone to change their mind, or help them decide on a position...or provide them with a sense of truth. I mean honestly - if you were to ask "is such and such" a game...DEAD?...what would be your definitive criteria for YES/NO? I mean, if "I" made an rpg, and I had data on 10,000 users...and YOU asked...is my game "dead" - if I told you I had more than a thousand users (which would be true given the above scenario), would you believe the game was dead? If I told you 10,000? If, for whatever reason, I gave you, personally, concrete info about the number of accounts my game had, would you believe the game was worth your time? Would you believe me? or imagine that I was *** you to get you to sub? etc...etc...
I guess my ultimate point is...when people ask such a question...do they really expect to get an answer that will define their choice? Or have they already made their choice, and the "question" is actually a statement? or accusation?
[/quote]
Easy enough answer they been hurt or burned before. They except the worst but hope for best0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess my ultimate point is...when people ask such a question...do they really expect to get an answer that will define their choice? Or have they already made their choice, and the "question" is actually a statement? or accusation?
the real question is - how well do you know "people"...therein lies your answer...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭
Ppl are asking if the game is dead for one reason only... imagine comming from game that is dead and you used to play it for 10 years...
Now imagine that you start playing game and you lvl up to max start end game and then you see that the game is dead... you cant fint raids, you cant pvp,....
That is th reason, ppl that come to play new MMO want to start in game, that is healthy with good/strong player base.. not game when you see player once in 2 hours or so...
okay, so THAT issue, I get - assuming the people mentioned above are looking for group activities (trials, dungeons, pvp, etc). But again, still, I wonder...what would be the "right" answer? I mean, let's assume, that I...an ESO player, want to convince above theoretical player, that ESO isn't "dead". What do I tell them? And why should they believe me?
Do I say..."ESO HAS AT LEAST 10K CONCURRENT PLAYERS ON STEAM!!" - even assuming I'm correct, does that, SHOULD THAT...convince the prospective ESO player that ESO is worth his/her time? How many people does it take to make a game "alive?" - what's the answer the questioner is hoping to receive?"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭I got myself a snack, had some time to think - and narrowed down my question, if it helps anyone that's interested in the conversation
My question isn't actually about whether anyone thinks that ESO is dead or not - it's more...
why would anything anyone says on the forums help you decide whether or not ESO (or any game ) is dead or not? How many people have to post a response saying " no, the game's not dead for reasons" before you decide to believe them? or vice versa? Is it a sheer numbers game, or is it any particularly compelling post? Have you even considered, before asking, what quantity and/or quality of answer would determine which way you choose? And why ask if you haven't decided for yourself what does/should qualify as an answer?
THAT, more than anything else, is my fundamental question. It's not a complaint about "game is dead" posts, although I'll admit those do bother me somewhat - but really, it's more...I honestly don't understand, yet, what people expect they would do if they actually got an answer."There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk0 -
perolord✭✭✭For me... the game is not dead, if you can see towns willages where you can meet players. That in ESO is where in every village/town you can meet players also outside, you frequently meet players, even in older maps...
You can raid, pvp, you can do group quests, world bosses,....
So this game is far from dead. I belive it has more players that used to. (at least i have that feeling with population on PC servers...).
Definition of dead game is, when you are in town/willage and you can greet only few players (handful) and then outside of towns it feels like you are playing on solo server... THAT IS DEAD GAME.0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?
Ok, first off, I don't know where you would be finding the people that "ask" if a game is dead. Won't be on forums. They would not have an account yet.
"Game Dead" posts generally come from players OF the game toward the community as a red flag to the Company. For example, it was easy to know Archeage was going down the tubes because when players stopped showing up the land became available. There was a point before they merged servers that my character Literally had the Only houses in an entire housing zone.
THAT is the sign of a dying game. When you can go to the capital city and find No other characters, and you get on zone Chat and literally No one responds - That game is in trouble.
In my experience "Dying Game" is generally defined as "Having every few Players"
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jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[quote="Tasear;c-6104479"
I was playing a online animal game. The population was 8 people in huge map.
I think you are wrong though. It's simply researching to see if something is worth your time. People make judgements on answers they get. The fact that we are offended by people asking just goes to show how alive the game is here.I'm not entirely sure how I can be "wrong" to ask a question, but if you assume that I'm taking a position by asking the question, I'll give that a pass. I get it...people, want, some kind of...reassurance, I guess...that any particular game is "worth their time", although I'll admit, that seems like a strange and arbitrary position to take. I mean, what makes ANY thing worth your time? Some people collect stamps. I find that BIZARRE!!...but that's me. I DON'T collect stamps. To the people that DO collect stamps, I'm sure it makes a great deal of sense, somehow, personally. Just not me.
The same things I imagine goes for videogames. I like vidoegames. I like certain features more than other features. I, personally HATE...HATE HATE HATE...crafting systems. In almost every video game...ever. I just HATE them.
Hate...hate...hate...blood...blood...blood...
My point is, and my question is...if you ask a question, I assume...that the answer, should MEAN something, to you. You shouldn't, IMO, ask a question, if you've already created an answer in your head. If you ASK a question, you're HOPING for someone to either change your mind, or solidify a concept in your mind that you haven't quite decided on already.
I guess, now that I'm sorta thinking it through, suspicious - I feel like when someone asks "is such-and-such a DEAD game", what they REALLY want to hear is some kind of validation of whatever position they already hold, either for/against the current state of the game, rather than actually wanting someone to change their mind, or help them decide on a position...or provide them with a sense of truth. I mean honestly - if you were to ask "is such and such" a game...DEAD?...what would be your definitive criteria for YES/NO? I mean, if "I" made an rpg, and I had data on 10,000 users...and YOU asked...is my game "dead" - if I told you I had more than a thousand users (which would be true given the above scenario), would you believe the game was dead? If I told you 10,000? If, for whatever reason, I gave you, personally, concrete info about the number of accounts my game had, would you believe the game was worth your time? Would you believe me? or imagine that I was *** you to get you to sub? etc...etc...
I guess my ultimate point is...when people ask such a question...do they really expect to get an answer that will define their choice? Or have they already made their choice, and the "question" is actually a statement? or accusation?
Because there are a lot of games out there that might as well be dead and people don't want to waste their time leveling if they're not going to be able to do what they enjoy most.
Take Secret World Legends as an example. The game has a great cliff-hanger story that isn't going to be finished any time in the forseeable future. If you like solo story and you're even marginally interested in the occult or urban fantasy/horror, it's worth playing through once or twice. But if you love or have fun in regular bouts of PvP, the player population is low enough that you'll never get a single pop in the one PvP instance Funcom offers. There's a tiny hardcore endgame community, but there's almost no endgame at all. The few players there are so far ahead in the gear grind that you, new fledgeling dungeoneer/raider, will never catch up.
Is the game dead? Pretty much, especially for certain types of players.
The question is shorthand for "Is there enough content here I can enjoy? Are there enough players doing that content that I have a prayer of joining in?"Edited by jainiadral on June 3, 2019 8:12AM0 -
YaYaPineapple✭✭✭✭When people ask "Is this game dead?", what they really want to know is whether it will be a struggle to find others to complete content with, and whether the game is on a downward slide toward shutting down altogether. People don't want to invest their time and energy into a game that might never meet their activity expectations, or a game that might shut down just as they get their character developed. They are attempting to gauge the general community feeling about the current and future state of the game, and hoping to gain some perspective based on current player experiences and anecdotes before they jump in with both feet (and their wallet).
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rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Asking "Is this game ded?" is a valid question for a new player. Before I played and enjoyed a ded game, and it is fine for old player with ingame friends to do content with until everyone just leaves or the servers get turned off. But for a new player just starting it would be truly annoying and frustrating experience.
In any case, ESO is not dead at least for a PvE player. While it does have problems to whine about (like PvP, annoying bugs and server issues being actively ignored or attempted fixes not working and do on,) ESO also does many things right, has regular content updates and is not yet a slowly rusting player milking machine. I'd pay for playing this game if the monetization was bit more consumer friendly.
There is lots of content and lots of people to do content with and as far as I know ESO is the best live MMO currently available. I would not be playing this game if I knew a better one...
Edited by rpa on June 3, 2019 8:55AM0 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People just want to know, that if they are going to commit a significant amount of time in a game, that the game is still going to be around in a few years time. Their just too lazy to google or do their own research they want someone else to justify them either buying the game or going back and playing the game that they already bought and gave up on in the past.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tbh. I dont see "dead game" posts that often. "Quiting" threads appear more often.
And it is because ppl get frustraited.
Thrugh game history, ZOS has made a lot of desicions (bad decision imho.) that lead to the removal & death of entire playstyles. NB sap tank is a good example. If you play since 2014, then you have most likely experienced it on your own. Something that you liked and cherished is now gone.
The only "dead game" posts that apper lately are EU Server percormance (or rather lack of it) topics.
Ppl do simply hope that if they do a massive sit storm about something important it will became a "snow ball" effect and at some point ZOS will look at it and improve it. And lets be honest here - often it is the only way.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on June 3, 2019 9:53AM0 -
Malprave✭✭✭✭✭In the case of ESO the point of "game dead" posts, and this is a poorly disguised one, is to create a false impression that the game is dying, when in fact the situation is completely the opposite with servers at full capacity. Will you people ever get tired and go away?0
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Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭<snip>
I mean, first of all, when someone asks..."is a game dead?" - what kind of useful information do they expect to receive? <snip>
Something similar to when someone asks:What is the point of "game dead" posts?
Something has prompted them to make a philosophical discussion. Maybe people are interested, maybe they aren't.
They're really unlikely to want to read a thesis on it, however.
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People ask "should I play this game, is it doing well" because they are fair-weather fans and they don't understand what an inherently biased source is. They don't want to spend their time doing something that they think might not be popular so they ask the people who are generally the most invested in the game to tell them what to do. They will even go so far as to force themselves not to play a game they think is fun based on the opinions of others about the value of time spent. Frankly, they're too lazy to waste time on a video game... which is the whole point to video games in the first place.0 -
bearbelly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭🤔 They must be coming from a dying game.... cough WOW
While I appreciate your response, I'm not entirely sure what it means. Are you saying that "game dead?" posts are inherently syllogisms? That if someone asks whether or not a game is dead, that it MUST be a dead game? Otherwise, they wouldn't ask?
Whoah, slow your roll there, big fella; breakin' out the fancy words for something rather simple.
More often than not, "dead game" posts come from self-perceived know-it-alls, who actually don't know a hell of a lot about anything, making grand proclamations about the state of a game.
Every online game I've come to for the past decade was being pronounced dead, and had been for awhile, at the time I discovered them.
The only one that has actually died in that time was Marvel Heroes. All of the others (again, that I have played myself) are still going strong.
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WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think people coming to the game just don’t want to step into a baren wasteland of an MMO. ESO isn’t that, fortunately. It’s fine to ask if the game is worth playing, as it’ll be a different experience for everyone. And it won’t be the right cup of tea for some people. But they should really try for themselves. Like I said, ESO is a different experience for everyone."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power0 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭barney2525 wrote: »
Thats one example of the games from that producer being driven into the ground and killed by the company itself, through mismanagement in direction or just simply not having a clue how to keep it viable.
And then (also) for some reason deciding to kill a game that people wanted to play.
One factor is that a producer would over-sell company control to investors, and needing to pay so much money back to the investors from 'profits' that they no longer had enough money left to fund game developement and support.
The worst part is that a game failing for the wrong reasons will make the game subject toxic to new development of games like it.The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭It usually means someone wishes the game would die or wants to rant as though it is dead because they aren't personally getting what they want at the time.1
