Making Healers Mandatory

MrBrownstone · June 2019

With all the one-shot mechanics around, healers are becoming worthless. How about reworking the Healing Ward skill so it absorbs all damage from a single hit? It would counter the one shot mechanics and make healers useful again. But it shouldn't be spammable so maybe increase cost or add some type of cooldown.

navystylz_ESO · June 2019

Without cooldowns in this game, that means you can just ignore mechanics spamming ward.

KillsAllElves · June 2019

One shot mechanics should not exist in this game.

Shield nerf was not the way to go, for pvp yes but not pve, zos should learn how to differentiate nerfs and buffs between pvp/pve. That is pure laziness!

Tsar_Gekkou · June 2019

Healers are being skipped because most people have under 20K dps and benefit from the extra dd. The only time 3 dd shines when all 3 dps are actually good is in Blackrose Prison. Otherwise you just run a healer so speedrun/no-death/hardmodes are far easier.

srfrogg23 · June 2019

I agree. They kind of overdo it on the one-shot mechanics. A lot of things that seem like one-shot mechanics aren't always, though. Sometimes people die in one hit because they just don't invest enough in defense and hp and they don't block or dodge when they're supposed to. Healers are still important, from the devs perspective, anyway. Too many min/maxers playing glass cannons.

bmnoble · June 2019

The healer should not be close enough to the boss to be hit by most one shot attacks, providing the tank is doing their job holding aggro and the DPS have not developed tunnel vision on the boss, ignoring the adds killing the healer, the tank can draw away some of the elite ones but don't have the resource sustain to keep the boss occupied and pull every add.

Most of the area effect one shot stuff has a mechanic in the content for countering/surviving it.

Problem with said mechanics is a large number of DPS players, try to ignore them completely and kill the boss quickly, not bothering to use the mechanics so the healer/tank has to stay out there and keep them alive if possible.

Provided you have good DPS players it works just fine, when you have low level DPS attempting to follow the example of the good DPS they watched during their last run of the content, it rarely works, then the tank usually has to rez everyone or die in the attempt restarting the fight. Followed by explaining the boss mechanics, so the group can progress.

SoLooney · June 2019

The only content besides trials where we had a dedicated healer for my team at least was the hard mode for frostvault as the storekeeper just does immense damage to the tank as well as defiling him, fight is not very burn heavy either so 2 dpsing it was just fine.

I dont see why people are so against content just run with 1 tank and 3 dps, if anything, it rewards the group for being able to self heal while dpsing, same with the tank

MrBrownstone · June 2019

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Without cooldowns in this game, that means you can just ignore mechanics spamming ward.

Thanks for reading.

MrBrownstone · June 2019

KillsAllElves wrote: »

One shot mechanics should not exist in this game.

Shield nerf was not the way to go, for pvp yes but not pve, zos should learn how to differentiate nerfs and buffs between pvp/pve. That is pure laziness!

Shields were overpowered for PvE too. My main character is a Magicka Sorcerer and I think the shield nerf was necessary. 25k shield was ridiculous.

MrBrownstone · June 2019

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Healers are being skipped because most people have under 20K dps and benefit from the extra dd. The only time 3 dd shines when all 3 dps are actually good is in Blackrose Prison. Otherwise you just run a healer so speedrun/no-death/hardmodes are far easier.

But players doing 3 DD runs are not the below 20k players, not at all. Only advanced players go for no healer runs.

Also having 3rd DD is much more rewarding with 40k DDs instead of 20k...

Ragnarock41 · June 2019

Oh yeah, instead of fixing the real problem, lets invent another bandaid fix. What could go wrong?

MrBrownstone · June 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, instead of fixing the real problem, lets invent another bandaid fix. What could go wrong?

One-hit mechanics should exist in my opinion. It's just that there are no counters other than doing the mechanic perfectly.

Girl_Number8 · June 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, instead of fixing the real problem, lets invent another bandaid fix. What could go wrong?

This.

Healers need to make themselves necessary by being in a guild or good premade group. Also, by having all the right gear to truly help the other players in any given situation, whether it be quicker rezzing, buffs, debuffs, and of course healing with hots and bursts. Any good player should know the know the mechanics of the content they are doing.

Imo far too many healers are subpar, lazy, and having been getting carried far too long through the tougher content.

A great player is always needed and should be able to adjust for the situation, not need Zos to screw the game up more for their lack of resourcefulness....

Tsar_Gekkou · June 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Healers are being skipped because most people have under 20K dps and benefit from the extra dd. The only time 3 dd shines when all 3 dps are actually good is in Blackrose Prison. Otherwise you just run a healer so speedrun/no-death/hardmodes are far easier.

But players doing 3 DD runs are not the below 20k players, not at all. Only advanced players go for no healer runs.

Also having 3rd DD is much more rewarding with 40k DDs instead of 20k...

When it comes to most of the dps I run with (~55K), they prefer healers. It's made every dungeon challenger and selling the skins/personalities a lot easier.

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, instead of fixing the real problem, lets invent another bandaid fix. What could go wrong?

This.

Healers need to make themselves necessary by being in a guild or good premade group. Also, by having all the right gear to truly help the other players in any given situation, whether it be quicker rezzing, buffs, debuffs, and of course healing with hots and bursts. Any good player should know the know the mechanics of the content they are doing.

Imo far too many healers are subpar, lazy, and having been getting carried far too long through the tougher content.

A great player is always needed and should be able to adjust for the situation, not need Zos to screw the game up more for their lack of resourcefulness....

Yeah so let's get this right, to make a healer useful for content they (along with tanks) need several gear sets depending on their group setup. The problem here is that healers aren't needed for some of the content to get gear from because DPS is too high along with them being able to self heal. Now you add in that DPS only need to farm 1 set (because they don't swap gear due to a best in slot) and just because a healer doesn't want to farm a lot of sets to help you a DPS out is lazy? Be great full that people actually want to play support roles because in this game they are only needed in harder content.

But then again having a healer in this game in easier content is you carrying them with crazy high DPS right?

And I see way way way way too many terrible DPS that do below 20k DPS that get carried through content and you expect a healer to want to buff them? The healer is better off doing DPS and letting the DPS lay there dead than trying to make him stronger lol

KillsAllElves · June 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

One shot mechanics should not exist in this game.

Shield nerf was not the way to go, for pvp yes but not pve, zos should learn how to differentiate nerfs and buffs between pvp/pve. That is pure laziness!

Shields were overpowered for PvE too. My main character is a Magicka Sorcerer and I think the shield nerf was necessary. 25k shield was ridiculous.

25k shield is not ridiculous nor overpowered, if thats the case then shields should never have scaled off of magic alone to begin with.

The shield nerf was in response to healers crying and pvp turds whining. I agree with shields being critted on.

Shields are weak and they do not take in account resistances as i have found out. A pathetic attempt by zos to fix a "problem" that only existed in pvp.

D0PAMINE · June 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

With all the one-shot mechanics around, healers are becoming worthless. How about reworking the Healing Ward skill so it absorbs all damage from a single hit? It would counter the one shot mechanics and make healers useful again. But it shouldn't be spammable so maybe increase cost or add some type of cooldown.

I agree about the one shots, esspecially RNG based ones.

Some players, however enjoy running their healer even if it's not needed, which is why in my runs it's "Bring what you want idgaf". Our magicka characters are built to heal with Resto and all skills morphed should we need it, and sometimes we do.

CGPsaint · June 2019

The group that I run with tends to run a tank and 3 DPS, or a tank, 2 DPS, and a 3rd DPS with off-heals. We've completed all non-trials content including No-Death, Speed Runs, and Hardmodes, up to Frostvault & Depths of Malatar which we will get around to as soon as I we polish off a few of the miscellaneous achievements from previous DLCs. 1-Shot mechanics haven't really been an issue unless the tank wasn't doing his job, or if we didn't obey the mechanics. We don't tend to rely on our "healer" for healing, so much as we do for the buffs and sustain, which is infinitely more useful to us for our purposes. If healers want to be relevant, then they simply need to find a way to fill the role that their group needs.

idk · June 2019

Healers are not worthless and there is plenty of damage that is not a one shot.

When running with good players, that are good at avoiding and mitigating damage a healer is not needed and it become advantageous to bring a strong dps. This has been the way to go since the first year this game was in. Top groups used a 50/50 healer for vDSA back when vDSA was fairly new.

A healer is still very much needed for many groups running 4 man content. Good healers that run with good groups slot dps and do very well running like that.

So there is no problem.

Ohtimbar · June 2019

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

CGPsaint · June 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Ohtimbar · June 2019

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Name how little I care about what you think.

CGPsaint · June 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Name how little I care about what you think.

I didn't say what I think. I asked you to name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics. Either answer the question, or you have no place in this discussion.

Ohtimbar · June 2019

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Name how little I care about what you think.

I didn't say what I think. I asked you to name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics. Either answer the question, or you have no place in this discussion.

Haha, how arrogant. You don't get to decide where I belong. I, however, have decided that you belong on my ignore list.

CGPsaint · June 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Name how little I care about what you think.

I didn't say what I think. I asked you to name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics. Either answer the question, or you have no place in this discussion.

Haha, how arrogant. You don't get to decide where I belong. I, however, have decided that you belong on my ignore list.

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. You're ignorance is showing, and you clearly aren't able to take part in a meaningful discussion.

TequilaFire · June 2019

Goodness PvE gets toxic. lmao

Ohtimbar · June 2019

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

One-shot mechanics are just lazy design. I'm not fond of losing control of my characters either. Better designers eschew those things, as they should.

Name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics.

Name how little I care about what you think.

I didn't say what I think. I asked you to name a 1-shot that cannot be avoided by following mechanics. Either answer the question, or you have no place in this discussion.

Haha, how arrogant. You don't get to decide where I belong. I, however, have decided that you belong on my ignore list.

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. You're ignorance is showing, and you clearly aren't able to take part in a meaningful discussion.

First, my ignore list is full, which sucks. Second, you asked me to provide something I never claimed to have. What is this, Fox News?

Tasear · June 2019

I don't think this is the answer though. I think issue very complex but starts with adjustment of old content to power creep. Then adjustments to healers for it. DPS get stronger why don't healers can more utility in return?

Mr_Walker · June 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, instead of fixing the real problem, lets invent another bandaid fix. What could go wrong?

One-hit mechanics should exist in my opinion. It's just that there are no counters other than doing the mechanic perfectly.

Once your ping tarts to get up there some of these mechanics become increasingly difficult.

idk · June 2019

Tasear wrote: »

I don't think this is the answer though. I think issue very complex but starts with adjustment of old content to power creep. Then adjustments to healers for it. DPS get stronger why don't healers can more utility in return?

I would agree if this was the case. Good leaderboard runs in vDSA when it first came out quickly went to using a 50/50 healer who often would hold their own with the DPS. No power creep as we are talking about early on after it was released.

Healers are still needed in 4 man vet content for a large portion of the players. The skilled players who can clear even newer content without a dedicated healer are not representative of the player base. I would expect with your history in this game you have the experience to understand this or you just run with top raiders.

sindalstar · June 2019

Making healers mandatory...I can't say I know how. I'm no game designer but I'll give what it feels like, playing one.

I guess the real problem is that DPS technically also have access to a lot of healing on their own. it costs them a slot, but if they want to slot it, they can, no charge.

Other games simply don't allow the dps classes to have access to heals (strong enough) to shrug off damage.

I don't really want to say 'get rid of them' because that defeats the purpose of this entire game's methodology. It stops people from making waky cool builds. But in making people feel like cool guys that can do everything, the people who were supposed to 'do it for you' kinda get shafted, because what make them feel like cool guys was making you feel like a cool guy.

I don't really mind one shot mechanics (much). But if healers AND ONLY HEALERS had ways of doing stuff to say SCREW YOU ONE SHOT MECHANIC for instance, that'd be kinda neat. It might be op, but the inverse is KILL THE BOSS FASTER THAN HE CAN ONE SHOT US.

Where this doesn't work, is bosses like, say, the vault protector that literally stops you every 15 seconds and says "Ok, now you can't burst me, deal with a one shot mechanic"

I dunno...
I love being a healer but even I feel kinda cruddy when I look at the 'how much healing I did' metric and just see "Oh look, these other guys didn't relay need me there...they all had their own healing mechanics". Granted, these are for more experienced people. but if the experienced people all eventually get to a point where they 'outgrow' a role, that's kinda dumb