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No Meaningful (Gear) Progression

  • TheDarkShadow
    TheDarkShadow
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    I left LOTRO for 2 years, came back, made new character, enjoyed quests and stories for a few months... till I get closer and closer to max level... and I look up... The grind wall for endgame gear look more and more intimidating. Have to beg day after day for help with a world boss that everyone are already sick of and done with for months before I can actually "play" in group contents. I left LOTRO again.

    I left ESO for 2 years, came back. Max level the same. My gear not BiS any more but can still pull out enough dps. I can jump right back in vet dungeons and trials. I still stick with ESO 3 years later.

    I'm glad that ZoS chose a different way to approach progression.
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    I love this kind of progression. I love how the addition of new sets, doesn't displace old sets but just modifies the Theory Crafting and produces new options.
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
    THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    Here is what I will support even though I’m positive I’m in the minority. If they were to make another gear level it should only be CP level 800+ and it should cost about 1000 ingots for each piece.

    And even then the reward for an all golded out set should maybe be 2 to 5% over an all golded out set of CP160 gear.

    If it’s going to be done it should be done to a ridiculous extent where obtaining it is painfully arduous.

    What?! It’s like some of you players forget some of us do have rl’s. No thank you

    Oh, I do too. Trust me, I don’t want to do this. Just saying that if they were this is how it should be done. So absurdly ridiculous that it’s not even worth it unless you’re a lunatic.
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Wing wrote: »
    horizontal progression is the ideal kind of progression, it introduces new things while respecting the effort and investment of the player up until that point.

    or would you rather the 9ish expansion sets be the end all be all because of a few arbitrary number increase and EVERY other of the hundreds of sets in game be worthless? if it makes it better we can add prefix's like "mythic" or "platinum" that way you REALLY know all your other gear is crap.

    if you want everything you worked for over the past years made worthless every couple months, there are a couple MMO's I can point you towards.

    Horizontal progression is garbage. It leaves players feeling like they never get more powerful and if you think that is ideal you are not paying attention. Lack of vertical progression kills MMOs due to boredom. To much kills due to turning away new players. ESO is starting to reach the boredom threshold that is why posts like this are popping up.

    This is the result of stopping CP raises, weak system or not it was way better than nothing which is what we have now. Most MMO players play to gain power, period!

    If you don't feel like you're getting more powerful over time, you're doing something wrong or just not paying attention.

    Every DLC comes with new gear that incrementally increases power. Sometimes, like in Elsweyr, there are big meta shifts with new sets for all aspects of the game. Sometimes, like in Wolfhunter, there are just minor shifts/tweaks or sets targeted towards niche builds. Nonetheless, every single patch in this game has included some gear that has found its way into "the meta" in one way or another.

    Name any given DLC, someone will be able to pick out gear from that patch that increased their power.
  • me_ming
    me_ming
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Wing wrote: »
    horizontal progression is the ideal kind of progression, it introduces new things while respecting the effort and investment of the player up until that point.

    or would you rather the 9ish expansion sets be the end all be all because of a few arbitrary number increase and EVERY other of the hundreds of sets in game be worthless? if it makes it better we can add prefix's like "mythic" or "platinum" that way you REALLY know all your other gear is crap.

    if you want everything you worked for over the past years made worthless every couple months, there are a couple MMO's I can point you towards.

    ESO is starting to reach the boredom threshold that is why posts like this are popping up.


    Posts like this have been popping up since Morrowind... maybe Orsinium. This is nothing new nor is this a trend that just recently occurred.

    Also to be honest, I'm assuming that OP has been using the same gear as when they reached CP160? Because otherwise I don't see the point of OP. You change gear every patch. prior to Elsweyr, Siroria is BiS (for magicka), now if you're wearing that, you're at a disadvantage. Sorry, but this game is far from being stale. You have to update your build almost every patch, unless of course you just want to play casually, then yes you can just use the same gear since you've reached cp160.

    I prefer this type of progression, it's a love-hate relationship for me, but I still prefer this. Because every gear [sets] is going to be relevant at some point of the game (depending on the patch). What I would love (not so much for PvP, but for PvE) is for gear to be somewhat tailored to classes. Because I really don't like that all magdps, stamdps, healers or tanks would be better wearing x gear set. I'd like a little diversity, so that if you're a magplar your gear is different from what a magdk would wear.

    "We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
    -Caldwell, "The Final Assault"

    "There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."

    -Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]
  • Nolic1
    Nolic1
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    See I think what a lot of people forget is eso is about grind but not gear grind its about character grind and development. Your max gear cp160. Max traits and gear quality gold. Max level 50 and cp level 810 for now. But everyone forgets about the skill lines cause they see they can only have 6 skills per bar swap not that you can learn over 100 different skills and morphs and this allows you a lot more play ability to your character cause now you can build them out to be all kinds of things and use earned sets to play other roles or just run around with a hybrid type character that can play all 3 roles of tank, healer and damage dealer with no problems other then what you imagine your character doing. This game has alot of progression but people only see power as the main goal and you can not have power with just gear you need skills and abilities to follow it up to max out your power.
    Edited by Nolic1 on May 29, 2019 6:09PM
    Sherman from Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.

    Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    Because linear progressions are boring, and over done. ESO has Gear CHOICE. Most gear sets are just as viable as other gear sets, it just depends on if you can create a build to make it work. What we have is a gear system that is only a piece of a larger "template". And we have a choice between all different "templates".
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Wing wrote: »
    horizontal progression is the ideal kind of progression, it introduces new things while respecting the effort and investment of the player up until that point.

    or would you rather the 9ish expansion sets be the end all be all because of a few arbitrary number increase and EVERY other of the hundreds of sets in game be worthless? if it makes it better we can add prefix's like "mythic" or "platinum" that way you REALLY know all your other gear is crap.

    if you want everything you worked for over the past years made worthless every couple months, there are a couple MMO's I can point you towards.

    Horizontal progression is garbage. It leaves players feeling like they never get more powerful and if you think that is ideal you are not paying attention. Lack of vertical progression kills MMOs due to boredom. To much kills due to turning away new players. ESO is starting to reach the boredom threshold that is why posts like this are popping up.

    This is the result of stopping CP raises, weak system or not it was way better than nothing which is what we have now. Most MMO players play to gain power, period!

    I have to respectfully disagree with you. This game has plenty of vertical progression, but it's based on player/group skill rather than centering around gear carries (although there is plenty of that going on too). End game raiders can pull high numbers with even garbage gear and can complete content with it, all because they've progressed to that point by putting in the hours and getting reps in the content. Every time I start to think I've hit a threshold and cant progress any further, I find a new level of the game that I never knew existed (Score pushing, Hard-modes, title achievements, skin selling, etc). Your progression is in your hands and its up to you to pursue the avenues that allow you to move up.
    PC/Xbox NA
    Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero
  • Kolache
    Kolache
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    Horizontal progression seems to work pretty well for ESO, at least judging by how few people seem to complain about it on the forums. ZOS found a groove with 1T's introduction of set collecting, IMO.
    Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    The only progression I find meaningful in ESO is working at getting better at whatever role I'm playing so I can compete in, and beat, harder content. To that end, I also enjoy theory crafting of skills, gear, classes, etc. Starting out not understanding gear sets, having 10k dps, and wondering what the heck I was doing wrong, I now run vet trials, solo dungeons, and have mastered vDSA and vMA. Without those rewards, ESO would be nothing more than a visually pleasing yet boring experience (I hate grinds so it still is to a degree).

    Vertical climbs can be sort a side reward of endless grinding, but without a challenge beyond mindless repetition, rewards becomes rather meaningless.
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    I've said it before, I'll say it again

    Regrinding gear every 6 months is not interesting nor compelling game play.
    It's boring.

    ZoS would have to readjust every mob, boss, dungeon, and trial to compensate for the higher power of the new gear level.
    So in the end it does absolutely nothing except make players grind higher level gear.

    NO THANK YOU
    Beta tester November 2013
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    I'm guessing the OP wasn't around for the introduction of ruby mats. When looting all the containers in IC was totally worthwhile for the 2 Lorkan's Tears in it, and Reporas cost more than Kutas.

    It wasn't fun. It wasn't even a gold sink because the gold was just shuffled around to other players.

    ESO has some very cool horizontal progression things people miss. Like the Shadow Rider perk from Dark Brotherhood, and the Treasure Hunter perk from CP. They aren't OP. They don't hinder anyone else's experience. But for a farmer or a crafter, they are great to have. Someday maybe we'll have the Bard's College and a speech perk that improves the prices you get at vendors.

    We do have power creep, particularly in gear, each patch. Players are a LOT stronger than they were even 2 years ago. I appreciate that they are going back and revisiting a couple of old gear sets each patch now, so we have "new" old things to try as well as the new new things.
  • Khrogo
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    Horizontal progression is what I like about the game. It allows for much greater build diversity because all sets stay relevant. The only downside is that it must be a balancing nightmare for ZOS. Props to their team for managing it so well. It’s no easy feat.
  • Asha_11_ESO
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    I like it the way gear is in ESO. Like someone else mentioned, it's horizontal progression, and what's great about ESO is that it doesn't turn you into a slave trying to stay current or relevant, with every patch and every expansion. You can just play intensively for a few months, then leave for a few months, and come back and pick up where you left off without too much fuss.


  • WolfingHour
    WolfingHour
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Wing wrote: »
    horizontal progression is the ideal kind of progression, it introduces new things while respecting the effort and investment of the player up until that point.

    or would you rather the 9ish expansion sets be the end all be all because of a few arbitrary number increase and EVERY other of the hundreds of sets in game be worthless? if it makes it better we can add prefix's like "mythic" or "platinum" that way you REALLY know all your other gear is crap.

    if you want everything you worked for over the past years made worthless every couple months, there are a couple MMO's I can point you towards.

    Horizontal progression is garbage. It leaves players feeling like they never get more powerful and if you think that is ideal you are not paying attention.

    You're elite, sweetie.
  • Grogaholic
    Grogaholic
    Soul Shriven
    No, I agree. It took me a while to figure it out...the answer is simple: ESO is just a casual MMO. That's really what it boils down to and that's OK. I still like to play an easy game sometimes...I also like to min-max, gear grind, progression raid in other MMO's and get the sweet fat loot. ESO is just not that though, it's it's own thing and that's OK. However, it took me a while to realize this, but once I did, it made ESO more enjoyable for what it is. Level scaling, easy combat, CP grinding, no DPS meters, gear doesn't really matter, same voice actor for everyone etc. it is what it is. But NOW that's what I like about it.
    Edited by Grogaholic on November 30, 2022 4:11PM
    I drink grog and play video games.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    Necromancy is a crime in Tamriel.
  • ZOS_Exile
    ZOS_Exile
    admin
    Greetings,

    We have closed this topic as it was originally created in May 2019 and the information contained within may no longer be relevant to the game. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

    Thank you for your understanding.
    Staff Post
This discussion has been closed.