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I hate doing dungeons with super geared people...
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Hyperion616✭✭✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »Yeah, I just say it out loud here: As a Casual player, doing a dungeon with someone who could easy solo the whole thing (and does) is boring as hell.
I mean, some people might enjoy just running behind the 800CP guy with minmax sets, but honestly, I would like a slower run way more than being basically not needed to finish the dungeon.
Cant we get some way that people like this could queue for themself?
Like... give us another option, for example: "Random Dungeon - Normal Run" and "Random Dungeon - Speed Run". The dungeons would be the same, but that way all the HIgh geared hardcore players can just join together and do dungeons in 10 minutes, maybe with one or two guys who like to get carried, and casuals can do the dungeon their own pace, with enough time to actually experience the mechanics, read the quests, listen to events... all that.
It is boring as hell, and makes for a horrible way to introduce new players to the dungeon system in a new game. At first it confused the hell out of me and my wife, both of us just following a long in a dungeon not really able to do any thing because this wonderful cp capped 810 player was just killing stuff so quickly.
Apparently that's a the thing to do in Eso, which I had no clue of at the time. Someone was nice enough to point that out to me, that if you can solo a dungeon why bother when it's better to just use the random dungeon queue and solo it with the other four members following behind.I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.
~Edith Sitwell3 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can not enjoy the dungeon quests.
This is because group members move forward while I'm talking to the NPC.
I hate this.5 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭As far as there not being a reason for a high level player to do a veteran dungeons - of course there is - for the best reason there is - because it's more fun.
Is it though? For some of the newer DLCs they are challenging and fun. But non-DLC Vets are not much more difficult (some easier) than even normal DLCs. If I'm running one of those its one of three reasons:
I need a set. Which doesn't matter if its from Vet or Normal. Might as well do Normal for the quick farm.
Or its the daily random dungeon. There's no daily vet so might as well do it on normal for the same reason above.
Or finally, its because I'm leveling another character, I want 50 so I can put together a few sets. So I want that farmed and I can't do Vet on a low level (I'm not quite sure why not, at least for walking in though admittedly I haven't tried).
The issue is and always has been experienced players being grouped with newbies. The issue is a player created one. The fix is also a player created one. As others suggested, I recommend newbies just getting into questing groups. It is a MMO so you are expected to socialize.
Oddly enough, those complaining about speedruns aren't taking the time to put together quest groups. Perhaps they ought to take their own advice and slow down a tad?1 -
Kenthros✭✭I kinda wish this was a thing but it won't ever be there I guess. Best option I have is to ask in chat for a group the old fashioned way. I recently came back and have been playing a tank Necro trying to get a feel for the moves how to place mobs and learn how to be a better tank. I have probably ran maybe 20 some dungeons as I level and have not once been able to tank in any normal sense or even learn about how a group should function on a normal ground. I would like to learn to be better but it's hard when it's steamrolled. I even have hard times with folks that like grouping with me to hold off and let me learn, they normally don't hold back. Another thing I love the story in this game alot, not once have I been able to listen or read any of these cool stories in these dungeons. Just only option will be to miss out on the story for them.But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.2 -
mann9753b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭This is exactly why people reach level 50, and evel CP 160, and have no idea how to properly tank, heal or read boss mechanics. Because they never had to. The whole point of leveling is to learn the game, but when most of your dungeons runs is you following one or two CP500+ melting everything in their path, you learn nothing.6 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sad to admit that I've completed a decent amount of the dungeon achievements and still don't know what 90% of the quest stories are about.4 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »This is exactly why people reach level 50, and evel CP 160, and have no idea how to properly tank, heal or read boss mechanics. Because they never had to. The whole point of leveling is to learn the game, but when most of your dungeons runs is you following one or two CP500+ melting everything in their path, you learn nothing.
You're first part is correct. Not the second. Sorry, its not because of high CP players. My friends and I rolled necros on the first day, we were going to the dungeons manually at level 5 (you can do dungeons at 5, but not GF till 10). There were 3 of us and we with no CP spent at level FIVE were blowing through the dungeons.
And get this, none of us had gear made except for our tank who made a white plain sword and shield just to start the weapon line with.
Three level Fives in a mismash of whatever quest gear we got in the first 20 minutes of playing were able to blow through normal dungeons. I don't think many of you understand what that means. It means no morphs, no CPs, no actual build. Just the first ability from each of the three trees of the class, first ability from weapon, not even an armor passive or any skill line passives. Could three man at level 5.
The tank and healer barely have what they need to do their roles. Didn't even need them. So three DPS (we all have same abilities at that level pretty much) who are underleveled and undergeared blow through dungeons on normal.
The issue isn't people being impatient. The issue is normals are as easy as open ground content except there's four instead of one. I don't know what you expect people to do when using a few unmorphed abilities in crappy gear melts the mobs. Are they supposed to sit and contemplate their existence between pulls, do RP, or what have you? Cause if no one is low on health, no one is low on magicka/stamina, why not simply melt the next group?
The only thing stopping new players from doing this is lack of experience which leads to a lack of confidence. As soon as they find out they can melt mobs too, they do. Some of you haven't quite figured out you can too.4 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Not another 'i want to do something this way and other people want to do it a different way so Zos should spend weeks making something which will keep me happy and probably cause all sorts of unintended consequences' thread.0 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »If I'm in a dungeon I can solo as a random, I usually let the other members decide the pace instead of steamroll it.
Yeah, same... all these people talking about "wasting someone's time"... you do realize that we're all playing a video game, right? IMO, priority goes to those who don't want to blast through. It's an extra what... five minutes? If you're SOooooOOOOooo strapped for time that you can't wait a few extra minutes, you need to be in a pre-made group.
If you're so intent on doing things slowly and holding people who have a limited play time (not to mention a 45 minute queue just to get in) then you need to be in a premade group.
I honestly don't ever remember being upset to get a nice quick run when I was levelling. I had plenty of time to learn whilst wiping over and over in normal dungeons, or taking 20 minutes to kill bosses.1 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »Looking through the comments here, I am kinda sure most people who laugh at the idea have played long enough to have had the awesome dungeon experience new players wish for, and are now the speedrunners, because "I know the dungeon already, so why should anyone actually want to spend time here."
Pretty sure if more new players were active here, I would have way more positive responses...
I’m not new—in fact I’ve been here since beta, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, people have been asking for something like this for years (I.e., story mode for dungeons, so people can do the quest and get the skill point before getting kicked out of the dungeon). But ZOS, in their, uh, wisdom, have ignored our pleas.
I'm not sure why people expect a free skillpoint for for walking through a dungeon. There are what, 25 dungeons now? Grab a new character, buy some darkstride and cowards gear and run solo through all the dungeons for the same as grinding out 75 skyshards?0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it wouldn't bother me.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 5:41PM0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it doesn't matter to me.
That’s just not true. That’s like saying overland, because it’s easy, is clearly not intended for veteran players.
Sometimes vets just want to do the pledge, or just want the skillpoint or whatever reason.
If you are annoyed that someone in your group is going too fast, there is a very high likelihood they are annoyed that you are going too slow and not contributing. But whatever, you get over it and clear the dungeon.
Edited by Pevey on May 26, 2019 5:42PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as there not being a reason for a high level player to do a veteran dungeons - of course there is - for the best reason there is - because it's more fun.
Is it though? For some of the newer DLCs they are challenging and fun. But non-DLC Vets are not much more difficult (some easier) than even normal DLCs. If I'm running one of those its one of three reasons:
I need a set. Which doesn't matter if its from Vet or Normal. Might as well do Normal for the quick farm.
Or its the daily random dungeon. There's no daily vet so might as well do it on normal for the same reason above.
Or finally, its because I'm leveling another character, I want 50 so I can put together a few sets. So I want that farmed and I can't do Vet on a low level (I'm not quite sure why not, at least for walking in though admittedly I haven't tried).
The issue is and always has been experienced players being grouped with newbies. The issue is a player created one. The fix is also a player created one. As others suggested, I recommend newbies just getting into questing groups. It is a MMO so you are expected to socialize.
Oddly enough, those complaining about speedruns aren't taking the time to put together quest groups. Perhaps they ought to take their own advice and slow down a tad?
The problem is normal dungeons are a joke for veteran players. The monsters don't have enough health - they don't hit hard enough - it's like trying to group on the overland. Everything is just going to be dead before anyone else can do anything.
I've never experienced this on veteran dungeons - not even the easier ones. Sure, if the group is good they can be easy - but it's never been so ridiculous that people don't even get a chance to contribute.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 5:42PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it doesn't matter to me.
That’s just not true. That’s like saying overland, because it’s easy, is clearly not intended for veteran players.
Sometimes vets just want to do the pledge, or just want the skillpoint or whatever reason.
If you are annoyed that someone in your group is going too fast, there is a very high likelihood they are annoyed that you are going too slow and not contributing. But whatever, you get over it and clear the dungeon.
That's exactly what I'm saying actually. Because the overland on this game is not designed for veteran players either. They desperately need to add a veteran version of the overland that is actually made for high level characters.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 5:43PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »This is exactly why people reach level 50, and evel CP 160, and have no idea how to properly tank, heal or read boss mechanics. Because they never had to. The whole point of leveling is to learn the game, but when most of your dungeons runs is you following one or two CP500+ melting everything in their path, you learn nothing.
That's true. You won't learn anything doing a normal dungeon - especially if you have high level players in the group. The only thing you'll learn is just how stupidly easy normal dungeons are for veteran players.1 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭I once went in to a dungeon with my girlfriend. The healer and other DPS were these dudebro DPS guys who rushed ahead and left a bunch of mobs behind, that she and I weren't able to get quite past (We both weren't exactly the top tier MVPs)
Those two didn't care. They just went on ahead without us. It's from that experience alone, that I consider high DPS assnuggets in Normals to be absolute... Scum, to say the least. Not a big fan of the kind of "Pro" players with a sense of entitlement (Meaning that they talk as if they're somehow being paragons, by saying "Oh, usually other players would spit at you, not me, because I am such a nice guy, even though I am having a soft condescending mannerism around, now why aren't you being grateful towards me?")
Then again, I've been playing as a tank lately, and I've encountered groups of DPS that were... Well, the kind that would even make my 17k DPS character look good. So I am not quite certain how to feel about these high DPS goons.
Pretty obvious how you feel, if your tone of disdain throughout your entire post is anything by which to decide.
Playing this game allllll these years and I’ve never run across most of the things people describe happening to them.
So either I’m super lucky, or I call BS.0 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭
To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it doesn't matter to me.
That’s just not true. That’s like saying overland, because it’s easy, is clearly not intended for veteran players.
Sometimes vets just want to do the pledge, or just want the skillpoint or whatever reason.
If you are annoyed that someone in your group is going too fast, there is a very high likelihood they are annoyed that you are going too slow and not contributing. But whatever, you get over it and clear the dungeon.
That's exactly what I'm saying actually. Because the overland on this game is not designed for veteran players either. They desperately need to add a veteran version of the overland that is actually made for high level characters.
'desperately'2 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it doesn't matter to me.
That’s just not true. That’s like saying overland, because it’s easy, is clearly not intended for veteran players.
Sometimes vets just want to do the pledge, or just want the skillpoint or whatever reason.
If you are annoyed that someone in your group is going too fast, there is a very high likelihood they are annoyed that you are going too slow and not contributing. But whatever, you get over it and clear the dungeon.
That's exactly what I'm saying actually. Because the overland on this game is not designed for veteran players either. They desperately need to add a veteran version of the overland that is actually made for high level characters.
I disagree. The whole point of progression in an rpg or mmorpg is that you should feel significantly more powerful at end game. It shouldn’t be a treadmill.
3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
To be honest, 800 CP veterans shouldn't be doing normal dungeons anyway. They should be doing veteran content.
I will do normal dungeons some for a few reasons despite being high CP.
Gearing up alts, avoiding 3 hour long DLC pledges, farming non-jewelry gear off the top of my head.
Also, not all high CP people are geared. Take the mid 600's guy in this thread who's not finished a dungeon.
That's what I said in the part of my post you left out. People are probably just doing it to farm gear so just want it over with asap. That doesn't change the fact though normal dungeons are not designed for high level characters. They're pitifully easy for veteran players and feels more like solo content.
Yes, I saw you said farming gear but I didn't just list that.
Gearing up an alt, as in a character that doesn't have good gear despite the player having high CP. I'm not going to hop into a vet dungeon on a tank in blues.
3 hour DLC pledges because some of the more recent ones can be extremely hit or miss. Frostvault for example.
I also disagree completely with your statement that normal dungeons aren't for high level characters. Normal dungeons are for whoever wants to do them for whatever reason. And if the reason is that they could solo the dungeon in 30m but speed through with a group in 15m that is a valid reason.If someone doesn't like the way their group is going for whatever reason then they should find other like minded people.
LIke I said, I can understand someone just running normal dungeons to farm gear. But they aren't designed for high level characters. You can disagree with me if you like. But it doesn't change the the fact they are ridiculously easy at high level levels and are obviously not intended for veteran players. Veteran Dungeons are intended for veteran players - that is why they are called veteran dungeons.
Now if you want to run normal dungeons be my guest. That's your business. You can do dungeons upside down while singing Eye of the Tiger and it doesn't matter to me.
That’s just not true. That’s like saying overland, because it’s easy, is clearly not intended for veteran players.
Sometimes vets just want to do the pledge, or just want the skillpoint or whatever reason.
If you are annoyed that someone in your group is going too fast, there is a very high likelihood they are annoyed that you are going too slow and not contributing. But whatever, you get over it and clear the dungeon.
That's exactly what I'm saying actually. Because the overland on this game is not designed for veteran players either. They desperately need to add a veteran version of the overland that is actually made for high level characters.
I disagree. The whole point of progression in an rpg or mmorpg is that you should feel significantly more powerful at end game. It shouldn’t be a treadmill.
There is a difference in feeling "significantly more powerful" and them melting everything in seconds.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 5:57PM2 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Is this a record? The entire front page seems to be demands for Zos to change the game to suit individuals.1
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Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Those of you in this thread who have a problem with players going too fast (and btw, it’s less because of their “super gear,” and more because of their experience in the game) just need to exchange @ names a run dungeons together. Enjoy your 3+ hours of fun.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Those of you in this thread who have a problem with players going too fast (and btw, it’s less because of their “super gear,” and more because of their experience in the game) just need to exchange @ names a run dungeons together. Enjoy your 3+ hours of fun.
From the sound of it - the OP wasn't interested in a 3 hour slug. He just wanted to actually get to fight some. That's not an unreasonable expectation.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 6:05PM4 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭The problem is normal dungeons are a joke for veteran players. The monsters don't have enough health - they don't hit hard enough - it's like trying to group on the overland. Everything is just going to be dead before anyone else can do anything.
I've never experienced this on veteran dungeons - not even the easier ones. Sure, if the group is good they can be easy - but it's never been so ridiculous that people don't even get a chance to contribute.
And the reasons to do veterans are negligible. Get some keys, get a monster set. Done.
Everything else as I said in a previous post can be farmed more quickly in normal. The game encourages us to run normal as quickly as possible. The random daily gives the SAME reward as normal. The sets that drop in normal upgrade to the same stats as veteran.
Until ZOS gives more incentives to do Vets, there is little reason to do them. Instead players will do normal, and blitz them. Farming gear is more important than a newbies immersion. No amount of pleading, reasoning, beration, or whatever will change that fact.
The best option going forward is for slowrunners to premake their group and run together. Experienced players have made their decisions. They're just going to leave the slowrunners at the dungeon entrance and complete the dungeon without them. That's simply a fact.
So with the facts known, everyone has to make a choice. Either deal with it, or take measures as suggested to mitigate it from your experiences.
We live in a very polarized world where discussion is pointless. It just is what it is going forward. Nothing can be done or said to change it.0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you separate out all the players who want a slow run or don’t want to be with “super geared” players who can “melt” things... what you are left with is all the really bad players. It will be a slog.Edited by Pevey on May 26, 2019 6:18PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is normal dungeons are a joke for veteran players. The monsters don't have enough health - they don't hit hard enough - it's like trying to group on the overland. Everything is just going to be dead before anyone else can do anything.
I've never experienced this on veteran dungeons - not even the easier ones. Sure, if the group is good they can be easy - but it's never been so ridiculous that people don't even get a chance to contribute.
And the reasons to do veterans are negligible. Get some keys, get a monster set. Done.
Everything else as I said in a previous post can be farmed more quickly in normal. The game encourages us to run normal as quickly as possible. The random daily gives the SAME reward as normal. The sets that drop in normal upgrade to the same stats as veteran.
Until ZOS gives more incentives to do Vets, there is little reason to do them. Instead players will do normal, and blitz them. Farming gear is more important than a newbies immersion. No amount of pleading, reasoning, beration, or whatever will change that fact.
The best option going forward is for slowrunners to premake their group and run together. Experienced players have made their decisions. They're just going to leave the slowrunners at the dungeon entrance and complete the dungeon without them. That's simply a fact.
So with the facts known, everyone has to make a choice. Either deal with it, or take measures as suggested to mitigate it from your experiences.
We live in a very polarized world where discussion is pointless. It just is what it is going forward. Nothing can be done or said to change it.
Well it's like I said, I do Veterans mostly because they are more fun. Normal dungeons are just pathetically easy - especially in a group. Maybe as solo content they would be ok for high level characters - but I honestly don't know why someone plays a game just to get something over with asap for a reward. If that's why I played this game, then I would have quit it long ago.. and you do get an extra key on Veteran mode. Which is nice.
My suggestion would be to allow players to sign up for a none CP run - that way newer players might actually get to experience the dungeon.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 6:18PM1 -
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✭✭✭✭✭If you separate out all the players who want a slow run or don’t want to be with “super geared” players who can “melt” things... what you are left with is all the really bad players. It will be a slug.
There is a middle ground between 3 hour slugs and then 15 minute speed runs Pevey.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 6:17PM3 -
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Yes, but that’s not what would happen with the OP’s suggestion. You can’t take people who are competent at the game and CAN quickly do a normal dungeon and make them go slower just because you want them to... unless they are a guildie doing you a favor, showing you the ropes. People who are competent would not sign up for a slow run. Most tanks and healers would not sign up for a slow run. You are left with all the really bad players self selecting into a separate queue that seldom pops, and when it does sometimes cannot even complete normal. The problem would start out a little skewed toward this, but would become worse and worse as players decide to avoid the slow queue with the bad players.
You can’t force people to go slower. You can only ask them to do so voluntarily. Which gets back to the suggestion I and many others have made in this thread: Form a group that meets your needs if you have special needs. Do not expect this from group finder. Group finder will give you three random people to run the dungeon with, the rest is up to you.Edited by Pevey on May 26, 2019 6:28PM0 -
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Yes, but that’s not what would happen with the OP’s suggestion. You can’t take people who are competent at the game and CAN quickly do a normal dungeon and make them go slower just because you want them to... unless they are a guildie doing you a favor, showing you the ropes. People who are competent would not sign up for a slow run. Most tanks and healers would not sign up for a slow run. You are left with all the really bad players self selecting into a separate queue that seldom pops, and when it does sometimes cannot even complete normal. The problem would start out a little skewed toward this, but would be some worse and worse and players decide to avoid the slow queue with the bad players.
You can’t force people to go slower. You can only ask them to do so voluntarily. Which gets back to the suggestion I and many others have made in this thread: Form a group that meets your needs if you have special needs. Do not expect this from group finder. Group finder will give you three random people to run the dungeon with, the rest is up to you.
It doesn't take competent people to do normal dungeons. They're very easy as I said - and designed for newer players. This idea that a normal dungeon requires pro players otherwise it would take 3 hours to beat is just not the case.
This entire debate is like pro golfers flooding the kiddy course at a miniature golf park and telling the kids to stop complaining.Edited by Jeremy on May 26, 2019 6:36PM4 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭My suggestion would be to allow players to sign up for a none CP run - that way newer players might actually get to experience the dungeon.
I think it'd be quicker to get a premade together. Here's how a Non-CP dungeon would go down:
New player queues for random dungeon. Lets day non-CP is on by default. Two hours later, he gets a group. Assuming they make it that long. Now they try for a regular CP allowed run (I assume we're not mandatorially splitting peeps, friends ought to be able to queue with friends even if one has CP and one doesn't). Instead of two hours, its 45 minutes.
Your suggestion is splitting a queuing system that already has a role shortage issue. And as I said before, lets say they disabled CP in normal dungeons. Which ideally we don't need CP for and would make them a bit harder.
I'm still going to melt stuff. As I said before, I was in there at level 5 hitting single target 10k DPS and 15-30k AOE dps. Mobs have 30-40k HP, that means they're going down in under 3 seconds. And I didn't even spend my CP cause I always tend to forget I can before level 50.
Problem is not CP. Problem is people knowing how to spend attributes, allocate skills, and use even basic rotations and animation canceling grouping with people who don't. Your suggestion doesn't fix this issue.
Mine does. While still creating exacerbation in queue times actually WILL split veteran players from normal players. And that suggestion is to give more incentives to do veteran. Make it so the Random daily gives better rewards for doing it on vet than normal. And giving the sets better bonuses (like Veteran Trial sets) on vet compared to normal. Also allow those of us with more than 160 CP to do veteran dungeons even if not 50. Just don't let us queue in group finder. Kinda like how we can do normals at 5 and not queue till 10. And grant us greater EXP for doing so.
You will see all of the highly experienced players vanish from the normal dungeons. Newbies will learn to play their roles with other newbies instead of being carried, and runs will slow down. Its a win-win situation.
But unless that happens, newbies need to use premades.Edited by Riejael on May 26, 2019 6:40PM0
