I don't use abilities in towns as a general rule, so it hasn't affected me yet. If I start getting bounties while doing quests because of it, I'll probably be a little irritated, though.

Tbh I get in more trouble from accidental stealing or those stupid forced sneak and steal quests in Morrowind etc. Have yet to get in trouble as Necro. I’d rather it all just be optional though. Prevent steal. Prevent casting those spells where I would be bountied.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I don't use abilities in towns as a general rule, so it hasn't affected me yet. If I start getting bounties while doing quests because of it, I'll probably be a little irritated, though.

Basically this, I'd be fine if I don't get into trouble questing and it's just to keep skill spam out of towns.

I haven't gotten a bounty yet, but that's only because I'm being very careful. I said from before it got released to live that they should remove it. It may be good for lore but for gameplay it completely sucks.

I can't stand it, I always forget I have a wraith up and I get arrested.

but they should also expand these rules to daedra summoning sorcerers.

Except summoning (most) Daedra isn't illegal, the base game zones are rife with Atronach.


On Necromancer if the system was limited to TOWN GUARDS ONLY I'd be all for it, but since every NPC out in the boonies/during quests with combat/in delves where they shouldn't give bounties/etc all take issue with conjuring the undead it's just a pain in the ass to deal with.

.... also it really doesn't make any sense within Necromancer itself that summoning a wraith is a crime, but launching a flaming skull is not. Desecration is desecration.

It hasn't even been a week of early release and people are so up in arms about this. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion on something, but maybe give things more than a handful of days to let yourself get used to the Class' mechanics before foaming at the mouth over it? If you're constantly spamming skills in town try bar swapping to one that doesn't have illegal skills. If you're running into town with a summons, try to teach yourself to double check when coming into a city that you don't have a spooky follower tailing you. If you do, it's not the end of the world to wait a few seconds for it to expire before you move on.

Also there is the fact that it was made very very very clear from the start that Necro would have these skills that are considered ciminal offenses. It wasn't a hidden mechanic that got sprung on us out of nowhere. The level of outrage over something people KNEW would be part of the Class is baffling to say the least. There is a very big difference between trying something and saying "Hey yeah this actually isn't very fun now that I've had a chance to test it first hand" and trying it before going "OMG TOTALLY BROKEN AND STUPID AF THIS WAS A DUMB IDEA IT'S BAD AND DUMB AND STUPID AND DUMB REMOVE IT NOW REEEEEEEEE".

As for people who keep saying "why is Necro part of the Justice System but not x or y", consider the possibility that this is a test of sorts to see how expanding the system to include things other than stealing/killing might work. Of course they're not going to lump everything into the system without giving it a test run first; isn't this something ZOS gets a lot of flak for? Making huge sweeping changes to things all at once instead of making smaller changes to see how they work? And now that they're actually taking it slower they're being yelled at for not making the massive sweeping changes that most people get frustrated with them for? Can't win for losing.

Arunei wrote: »

It hasn't even been a week of early release and people are so up in arms about this. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion on something, but maybe give things more than a handful of days to let yourself get used to the Class' mechanics before foaming at the mouth over it? If you're constantly spamming skills in town try bar swapping to one that doesn't have illegal skills. If you're running into town with a summons, try to teach yourself to double check when coming into a city that you don't have a spooky follower tailing you. If you do, it's not the end of the world to wait a few seconds for it to expire before you move on.

Also there is the fact that it was made very very very clear from the start that Necro would have these skills that are considered ciminal offenses. It wasn't a hidden mechanic that got sprung on us out of nowhere. The level of outrage over something people KNEW would be part of the Class is baffling to say the least. There is a very big difference between trying something and saying "Hey yeah this actually isn't very fun now that I've had a chance to test it first hand" and trying it before going "OMG TOTALLY BROKEN AND STUPID AF THIS WAS A DUMB IDEA IT'S BAD AND DUMB AND STUPID AND DUMB REMOVE IT NOW REEEEEEEEE".

As for people who keep saying "why is Necro part of the Justice System but not x or y", consider the possibility that this is a test of sorts to see how expanding the system to include things other than stealing/killing. Of course they're not going to lump everything into the system without giving it a test run first; isn't this something ZOS gets a lot of flak for? Making huge sweeping changes to things all at once instead of making smaller changes to see how they work? And now that they're actually taking it slower they're being yelled at for not making the massive sweeping changes that most people get frustrated with them for? Can't win for losing.

Just to be fair, most people I see complaining about it is because they experienced it first hand, I'm getting mixed reports between people saying they got in trouble in DELVES and people saying it only matters in town, I'm not sure which to believe but if it's really in delves and such I can understand why people are upset.

Also I want to toss it out there that I do actually have a Necro, so I'm not preaching as someone who isn't playing the Class. He's level 40 atm and I haven't had a single issue with him, maybe because I don't spend too much time in town with him other than selling trash and banking and stuff. But I haven't gone into a town or city with a follower, or accidentally Skull'd an NPC. It also likely helps that I have 'Prevent Attacking Innocents' turned on, so I really CAN'T target anyone with offensive Necro skills that require a target and get you a bounty. I also never had an issue with it in the PTS; there was ONE instance where I almost summoned my archer in town, but I remembered in the nick of time not to do it. Aside from that, no problems.

I do know one of the PTS notes mentioned neutral quest givers and the like aren't supposed to give you bounties if you use your Spooky McIllegal skills around them. I'll do a test here in a bit with the Forgotten Crypts quest, since you get the NPC follower for part of it, and see if I get a bounty from her for blowing up mobs with a skeleboom.

When ZOS'es announced this "justice" system, they tell us that there will be a real pvp part in it - like one player is a bandit, and another is a guard. But next time they have said, that this was a bad idea, cause they want players feel safe and comfortable in towns. Yea, i feel myself quite comfortable, when allmighty guards chasing me for wrong button pushed...

I'm never going to play a Necro, so it'll never effect me, but.... yeah, it seems kind of a silly/annoying feature. One of those times when following "lore" too closely makes for a poor gameplay experience.

("Here, this one class or race has an obnoxious drawback, just for giggles!" doesn't feel like good design strategy. If classes & races having meaningful drawbacks had been a thing all this time, it would make more sense.)

Apply it to sorc pets and it's perfect.

I really like this part of the necromancer class it adds to the whole new aspect of the game.

I would defiantly like further expansion of the Justice System by having City and Town guards also attack or "apprehend", Sorcerers that have Deadra pets summoned, Warden summoned Bear, Werewolf in WW form, Vampires at a specific stage (maybe stage 3 or higher), and Public Dueling.

It serves no point.

The reason the criminal system exists and by extension the Thieves Guild and Black Hand DLC content, is because of risk versus reward. When you engage in thievery and murder, each steal and murder grants you a chance to earn a bit of money or items worth the consequences (or more) of being caught.

There is no reward for using necro abilities. They aren't stronger than normal abilities. You simply take a DPS hit when engaging in content outside the dungeons. If my playstyle had me actually engage in story, dialogue, and general overworld questing, I would never play a Necro. Thankfully I can enjoy the class because I primarily play in dungeons. Not everyone plays the same way I do however.

The fix is to either increase the effectiveness of criminal abilities by 50% to compensate for a risk vs reward, or simply remove the risk entirely.

When I've played other games that has lore that doesn't take a kind view on necromancy, usually its not a universal thing. For example in Everquest, Necromancers are reviled in many cities. Citizens and guards will attack on sight and at the very least many merchants will not even deal with Necros or even attack them as well.

However there are some cities who welcome necromancers and even give the hateful treatment to 'good' classes such as Paladins, Rangers, and Druids. So while traveling about, everyone has to take care of their chosen class and how it affects the dealings with the area they are traveling through.

There's nothing in the lore that supports that sort of dynamic in Elderscrolls. Everyone gets along with everyone, and everyone is 'good'. Stories don't make that true, but the mechanics of sharing criminal data in all the games lends the truth to be different than the story in that case.

Solariken wrote: »

In towns it's fine, but super annoying when I fight near a merchant or some NPC deep in a quest zone and get a bounty.

Where did you get the bounty? This guy is just a random NPC out in the world, he's not a quest giver or anything, and I didn't get a bounty from him despite being a spooky scary skellington.