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Necromancer PTS Wrapup

  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    what a great name for this pts because no class (other than nb) got looked at at all for this CLASS ACTIVE SKILL AUDIT PATCH
  • NupidStoob
    NupidStoob
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    Can't think of a PTS cycle where the bugs people reported didn't make it to live. At this point it's obvious that ZoS is fine with that standard and all they care about is "is it good enough to sell?".

    Absolute shame for an MMO that could completely dominate the market. At this point as soon as a proper competitor comes around this game is dead.
    Edited by NupidStoob on May 19, 2019 7:04AM
  • ecru
    ecru
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    More transparency would have been nice. Providing feedback for things like Siphon not hitting bosses on the first day PTS was live being responded to with, "yeah we know but it's going live like that anyway" a few days before the expansion is released leaves me in a position where I don't really want to bother providing any feedback at all anymore. You'll be "closely monitoring" it? What does even that mean? You're going to leave it broken and not worry about it until a enough people notice it's not working the way it should? Or does it mean you won't bother to fix it at all because it only affects a handful of players in Sunspire and most casual players won't care? I care. I want the abilities I use on my class, abilities that are required for competitive dps, to actually work in the situations they're most needed, like on trial bosses.

    If Liquid Lightning suddenly didn't hit bosses on PTS it would be fixed immediately, so why can't Necro get the same treatment?

    I'll still be playing Mag Necro in Elsweyr, but with a lot of reservations about the class in general due to the fact that you guys are almost entirely silent on all issues brought up with Necro.
    Edited by ecru on May 19, 2019 7:55AM
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Supportic
    Supportic
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    My wish would be to get a reliable pull skill like warden portals or dk chains. The armor buff morph doesn't work well in a fast paste fight.

    Additionally an increase of the time window to consume my own corpses from 4s to 10s would also be great.
    World 2nd Tick-Tock Tormentor ☑
    Immortal Redeemer ☑
    Gryphon Heart ☑
    HARDwithSTYLE
  • Vanthras79
    Vanthras79
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    @ZOS_KNowak does the team have any plans to fine-tune any of the four original classes to improve upon the lessons learned making the necromancer?
    Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.

  • Minno
    Minno
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    So they opened this back up and deleted some piets? Lol

    Whatever, the important points have been said in the beginning.

    I'm going to need to see a design intent from the devs moving forward. Otherwise my feedback is exactly like @usmcjdking said
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Magicka necromancer long term has a good base as a well built class.The overall top performing spec in PvP, magsorc, has some of the same basic "problems" as magcro like an obvious easy to counter combo. Since the class is overtuned the fact that it "shouldn't" be good at solo PvP doesn't matter.
    The Magicka Sorcerer combo is way better than the one for Magicka Necromancers. Blastbones can be countered without even trying to counter it; just moving around while it's in an AOE snare/root can very well leave it confused enough that it'll time out before reaching its target. That's a full 8 second lockout on Magicka Necromancer attempting its burst combo...any PvE issues with Blastbones are very much amplified in PvP, especially in rough terrain.

    I'm still going to level a Magicka Necromancer up, but I don't anticipate it being at all worthwhile in an offensive role for PvP for a very long time, if ever. The burst is too easily countered, and too many of the offensive abilities are essentially worthless in PvP.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
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    My Wrap-up: I finally learned from previous releases! This time, I didn't log-in to the PTS even once, didn't provide feed-back that would just be ignored, didn't pre-buy the chapter, and don't regret it.
  • Forgebreaker
    Forgebreaker
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    @Supportic FAST PASTE dude.

    I'm excited to play, good job!

    I'd rather have access to play the patch now and have you finetune things over the next few months than have to wait a few months to play it at all.
  • mague
    mague
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    Cant wait for the storm coming from Venom Skull, Ruinous Scythe, Expunge, Vigor, Beckoning Armor, Renewing Animation in PvP.
  • Kieros_Farwander
    I think the most direct comment I can make on this is simply that I regret making the purchase in advance.

    Compared to other things I could have gotten for that amount, this has been just plain disappointing.

    And this thing you are calling a necromancer is about as from from the necromancers of game lore as they are form the much better constructed NPC necromancers already in the game.

    Elsweyr is gorgeous, but repetitive.
    Dragons are just wandering world bosses.
    And the necromancers are just different special effects on weaker versions of existing spells, with the added complexity of bookkeeping a bone pile.

    In short, tedious.

    But I am certain it has already made money on all the players who have not yet seen it.

    If you ever want to form an actual group of players to give feedback and suggestions for content, before it is created, let me know.
    Seriously...

    (⌐◉-◉)
  • mistermacintosh
    mistermacintosh
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    I have some ideas. I’ll put them here.

    Get rid of classes: Does an Elder Scrolls game need them? They never did before. Of course I’m sure in the beginning ZOS was like “It’s an MMO, people won’t buy it if it doesn’t have classes," but at this point the classes are basically homogenized anyway, right? Everyone can tank, heal and do damage now (more or less), so the only thing locking players to classes is doing now is ticking them off when they get nerfed. Get rid of them. Make the skills available in skill lines that make sense (nature magic skill line, frost skill line, etc.). Everyone already creates their own class/build now anyway, so just get rid of the skill lines that are making players upset and create better skill lines to replace them that everyone has access to. Less excuses, more freedom.

    Get rid of racial skill lines: Do we need racial skill trees? No, we don’t. Similarly to classes they cause more irritation than they’re worth and are also more or less homogenized now. Keep the flavor perks and tie everything else to a birth sign. Thief sign has stealing skills, etc. That way you can be an Altmer warrior, Redguard mage, etc. and be competitive at it. (Just imagine the race-change sales after this, ZOS!)

    Make skills feed off of your highest resource pool: Get rid of all the redundant sets and morphs that change the resource used and make skills and sets use whatever resource pool is higher. And make magic users’ roll (phase forward), sprint (a glide or flight-like animation maybe), break-free, and block (a ward) consume magicka. I mean, why would a mage need stamina? To roll around on the ground and block two handed swords with a stick? It looks and feels ridiculous. (Example: A paladin-type build that focuses more on magic would block with a ward. If they focused on stamina they would block with a physical or bound shield. Some weapons would work better for magic focused builds and some for stamina builds, much like they already do, but your skills and special actions will consume your highest resource pool.)

    Change the way staves work: They should channel what magic you specialize in. I know that elemental staves were utilized in previous ES games, but if you think about it they don’t make sense. If you use a staff it should have a power rating, set bonus, trait, maybe a special bonus if it came from difficult content, but otherwise should be an extension of the character. You could do this for other weapons as well, but I think it’s especially relevant to staves.

    Of course, I realize these changes would require a massive amount of effort to put into place, and we likely won’t see half of them implemented, but would I ever be psyched to see them.
    Legalize Nirnroot!

    Mac User, NA Server (CP810+, PVE focused):
    Magicka Templar Ra the Everlasting (Level 50 - Main Character)
    Stamina Sorcerer Khazaka-ri (Level 50 - Crafter)
    Dragonknight Tank Skalda Flamewreath (Level 50)
    Pet Sorcerer Hellias Ocume (Level 50)
    Magicka Necromancer Socelon (Level 4)

    Templar Healer Mends-Through-Panic (Level 50)
    Stamina Nightblade Adanna-daro (Level 50)
    Stamina Warden Marely Sprigs (Level 50)
    Stamina Dragonknight Ursula Trollcalmer (Level 50)
    Stamina Necromancer Daengeval (Level 4)

    Stamina Templar Cornellus Graves (Level 50)
    Warden Healer Pays-For-Luxury (Level 50)
    Magicka Sorcerer Sophia Flash (Level 50)
    Magicka Dragonknight Cinvalo Aloavel (Level 50)
    Magicka Nightblade Esmerelda the Cruel (Level 50)
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    I have some ideas. I’ll put them here.

    Get rid of classes: Does an Elder Scrolls game need them? They never did before. Of course I’m sure in the beginning ZOS was like “It’s an MMO, people won’t buy it if it doesn’t have classes," but at this point the classes are basically homogenized anyway, right? Everyone can tank, heal and do damage now (more or less), so the only thing locking players to classes is doing now is ticking them off when they get nerfed. Get rid of them. Make the skills available in skill lines that make sense (nature magic skill line, frost skill line, etc.). Everyone already creates their own class/build now anyway, so just get rid of the skill lines that are making players upset and create better skill lines to replace them that everyone has access to. Less excuses, more freedom.

    Get rid of racial skill lines: Do we need racial skill trees? No, we don’t. Similarly to classes they cause more irritation than they’re worth and are also more or less homogenized now. Keep the flavor perks and tie everything else to a birth sign. Thief sign has stealing skills, etc. That way you can be an Altmer warrior, Redguard mage, etc. and be competitive at it. (Just imagine the race-change sales after this, ZOS!)

    Make skills feed off of your highest resource pool: Get rid of all the redundant sets and morphs that change the resource used and make skills and sets use whatever resource pool is higher. And make magic users’ roll (phase forward), sprint (a glide or flight-like animation maybe), break-free, and block (a ward) consume magicka. I mean, why would a mage need stamina? To roll around on the ground and block two handed swords with a stick? It looks and feels ridiculous. (Example: A paladin-type build that focuses more on magic would block with a ward. If they focused on stamina they would block with a physical or bound shield. Some weapons would work better for magic focused builds and some for stamina builds, much like they already do, but your skills and special actions will consume your highest resource pool.)

    Change the way staves work: They should channel what magic you specialize in. I know that elemental staves were utilized in previous ES games, but if you think about it they don’t make sense. If you use a staff it should have a power rating, set bonus, trait, maybe a special bonus if it came from difficult content, but otherwise should be an extension of the character. You could do this for other weapons as well, but I think it’s especially relevant to staves.

    Of course, I realize these changes would require a massive amount of effort to put into place, and we likely won’t see half of them implemented, but would I ever be psyched to see them.
    I love skyrim and elder scrolls before it but getting rid of the classes in eso is one of the worse ideas I have ever heard eso is an elder scrolls game as a hardcore fan of elder scrolls it even has the feel as well but you and I do as well have to respect that it is also an mmo and personally I love the pvp as much as the story and the lore.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Will you be revisting Sorc DK Templar Nightblade (already did) for their healing and tanking roles.


    Thanks for heads up, makes us actually feel better at a lot of things.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    O.o why can't we edit comments still ?


    * My main concern is performance of Healers in game play. I think rez ultimate was too costly do anything fun with in pve. This will eventually put make Necromancer tank along with it's self alkoash proc better choice then having a necro healer.

    * I wonder how minor vulierblity and damage synergy will work out for magicka dps. It seems less promising then stamina.


    I take my hat off though. On the night of the big day, I say necromancer didn't do so bad. now ... just do the same for others. Espeically make situational things skills can work on like necro ones.

  • Michaelkeir
    Michaelkeir
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    If i could define this update in one word, it would be "dissapointment.

    You were supposed to adjust class skills, to listen to feedback, yet necro gets all the attention and this polished treatment u mention is utter disrespect with People that play stamsorc or stamplar and have been giving feedback for ages.

    This patch only shows its not a lack of capacity, but more like you only work on stuff that will sell more dlc, instead of keeping old playerbase happy.

    Necro got all the attention? Are we looking at the SAME PTS? Nightblades got all the attention this time around. Look at the number of nerfs and buffs they got.
  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    Tasear wrote: »
    O.o why can't we edit comments still ?


    * My main concern is performance of Healers in game play. I think rez ultimate was too costly do anything fun with in pve. This will eventually put make Necromancer tank along with it's self alkoash proc better choice then having a necro healer.

    * I wonder how minor vulierblity and damage synergy will work out for magicka dps. It seems less promising then stamina.


    I take my hat off though. On the night of the big day, I say necromancer didn't do so bad. now ... just do the same for others. Espeically make situational things skills can work on like necro ones.

    For some reason I can't see edit button when browsing through chrome. Opera works fine though. I'd recommend giving it a shot.

    And edit to add to a discussion: corpse targeting will be the main issue for any necro spec imo. Oh that and terrible sustain.

    Edited by Anhedonie on May 20, 2019 11:39AM
    Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    I said this before and I repeat it here: guys, you did everything the other way around. You should have looked at class passives BEFORE starting to do things with active skills. Passives should define the classes even if you run without any class skill.

    Now we have this: Minor vulnerability on a gap closer, stam classes having to slot mag skills to be able to do dmg, a breakable silence instead of a stun, skills that scale with the max offensive resource despite the still cost the other resource, healers that are unnecessary....

    And passives? Passives now belong to a different game... enduring rays and searing heat are pointless with the standarization of DoTs, for example. Next patch both will become wasted skill points.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    I said this before and I repeat it here: guys, you did everything the other way around. You should have looked at class passives BEFORE starting to do things with active skills. Passives should define the classes even if you run without any class skill.

    Now we have this: Minor vulnerability on a gap closer, stam classes having to slot mag skills to be able to do dmg, a breakable silence instead of a stun, skills that scale with the max offensive resource despite the still cost the other resource, healers that are unnecessary....

    And passives? Passives now belong to a different game... enduring rays and searing heat are pointless with the standarization of DoTs, for example. Next patch both will become wasted skill points.

    I don't think its wise to look at either individually. The passives are directly tied to skills and their usage. Change either can and has led to the irrelevance of the other. Cauterize is an excellent example cause it doesn't benefit from a single passive in its tree.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
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    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    I said this before and I repeat it here: guys, you did everything the other way around. You should have looked at class passives BEFORE starting to do things with active skills. Passives should define the classes even if you run without any class skill.

    Now we have this: Minor vulnerability on a gap closer, stam classes having to slot mag skills to be able to do dmg, a breakable silence instead of a stun, skills that scale with the max offensive resource despite the still cost the other resource, healers that are unnecessary....

    And passives? Passives now belong to a different game... enduring rays and searing heat are pointless with the standarization of DoTs, for example. Next patch both will become wasted skill points.

    I don't think its wise to look at either individually. The passives are directly tied to skills and their usage. Change either can and has led to the irrelevance of the other. Cauterize is an excellent example cause it doesn't benefit from a single passive in its tree.

    well, that's in an ideal world. I agree that the best would have been working both at the same time, but that's not possible according to how things were done.

    In any case, they are going to look at passives after this patch according to Rich (if I remember well), what is going to be a thing imho. I'm sure we will see some strange cases of skills that were buffed this patch to be nerfed the next one just because the passives
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
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    GIMMMEEE THE NATCHIES
  • xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
    xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
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    So as someone who doesn't play PC so I can't get on PTS, here's what I think I understand about Necro
    1. Corpse system sucks, it's buggy and hard to work with, and doesn't give enough of a reward to bother working with it
    2. Stamina Necro is OP compared to Magicka Necro (???)

    Yeah that's all I got. Am I wrong about the comparison?
    New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
    Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
    My little rant I guess?:
      One day Nightblades will get the buffs we desperately need and deserve, but so far, those buffs are not today.. The Elder Scrolls Online: Nightblade Nerfs Unlimited.
      Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.


      If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
      Also open to talking on Discord!

      Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.

      CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.

      My wishlist I suppose:
      • PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
      • Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
      • MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
      • Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
      • Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
      • Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .

      My 10 characters:
      • AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
      • EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
      • DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
      • EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
      • AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
      • DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
      • AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
      • DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
      • EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
      • EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.

      Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!
    • psychotic13
      psychotic13
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      Need to prioritize old classes and then get the word 'balance' tattoo'd across each member of the combat teams foreheads so they dont lose sight of the actual problem.

      This game is literally on its last legs right now, atleast on my server, id imagine other console servers are not doing great. BGs long ques even if youre solo, cyrodil is almost dead, 1 active campaign which hasnt been pop locked for a long time.

      The population is at an all time low, many guilds and good/long time players called it a day (including several of the trading guilds) leaving a huge hole in the economy. Extremely few trials guilds left, so if you want to progress through the harder vet trials, good luck with that.

      Dont even get me started on PvP, its a mess. Everyone builds tanky, cause if you dont you'll just get slapped by the zerg before you even have the opputunity to escape. The lag is atrocious.

      Like seriously can we get some sort of AP buff/debuff? Less player gain +% AP, middle ground group size stays as is, big group -%AP.. not difficult.

      But no, everything gets brushed under the rug cause you need to bring out more classes before you fixed the old ones. Im all for new classes, but priorities. Fix the game, then you can bring 2 classes a time out for all i care, maybe it will help revive the game. But if it stays on this path it wont make the end of the year.

      Anyone recommend a new game? Pretty much done with this game, play like once a week with friends and it never takes long before everyones fed up and *** it off.

      @ZOS_Gilliam , we expected more from you.
    • soynegroyque
      soynegroyque
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      Supportic wrote: »
      My wish would be to get a reliable pull skill like warden portals or dk chains. The armor buff morph doesn't work well in a fast paste fight.

      Additionally an increase of the time window to consume my own corpses from 4s to 10s would also be great.

      Silver Leash?
    • joaaocaampos
      joaaocaampos
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      Reanimate and morphs needs cast time: 1 or 2 secs!
    • Pops_ND_Irish
      Pops_ND_Irish
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      "Necromancer PTS Wrapup"
      Funny how the name of the thread gets re-named "Opportunity to whine about everything else"
    • Jagdkommando
      Jagdkommando
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      I came here to describe and complain about Elsweyr update, that it sucks, but after reading other players opinions i have nothing to add....

      This means you really suck ZOS...
      @ZOS_GinaBruno
    • Skander
      Skander
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      Reanimate and morphs needs cast time: 1 or 2 secs!

      Reanimate is useless
      I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
      -Elder Nightblades Online
      Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations
    • Pops_ND_Irish
      Pops_ND_Irish
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      I came here to describe and complain about Elsweyr update, that it sucks, but after reading other players opinions i have nothing to add....

      This means you really suck ZOS...
      @ZOS_GinaBruno

      hehehe bye !!
    • Koolio
      Koolio
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      ZOS_KNowak wrote: »
      Thank you for all the testing and feedback you’ve given on the new Necromancer class. As this PTS cycle nears its end, we wanted to provide some insight on how we approached the Necromancer going into PTS and how we’ll be evaluating the class after Elsewyr goes live.

      The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible. We adjusted many abilities based on internal playtesting, and even completely redesigned some abilities to better support the gameplay themes of the class. The visits to the studio by the Class Reps and other members of the community aided us in these efforts. We also applied many of the lessons learned from the Warden and our original classes when building the Necromancer, which helped us avoid problem areas such as heavy buff management or a lack of clearly defined strengths and weaknesses.

      Because we had so much time to fine-tune the balance and fix the bugs for the Necromancer, we avoided doing too many dramatic changes or overhauls during the PTS cycle. We made some adjustments for the 5.0.2 PTS patch, but limited changes in the following PTS patches to bug fixes. We actively avoided excessive tinkering and last-minute redesigns that wouldn’t get a high level of testing and scrutiny. Given that the Necromancer was built with a lot of new tech and new concepts such as corpse management, having it work correctly and remain stable for this massive Elsewyr patch was the main focus.

      While we’re pleased with the current state of the Necromancer class, we know that this is just the start of things. One of the advantages of working on a live game is the continuous improvement we can apply to our classes and combat experience over time. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Necromancer performs as you level them up and learn how to use their abilities. Here are just some of the issues that we’ll be closely monitoring after Elsewyr launches:
      • Necromancer performance for Magicka and Stamina builds, as well as for Tanking, Healing, or Damage Dealing.
      • Necromancer performance in large-scale PvP, with a particular eye on the Reanimate ultimate and their overall area of effect kit.
      • Shocking Siphon’s area of effect being difficult to land on very large monsters (like the dragons in the new Sunspire trial).
      • Corpse targeting for Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether being “finicky” in some situations.
      • PvP counterplay against the Blastbones.
      • The Justice System experience as a Necromancer.
      Thank you all for the support during this PTS cycle, and we look forward to seeing many Necromancers in Tamriel in the future!

      Let’s not have this thread disappear
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