I’m a DPS that queues as a tank...let me explain

saganblackblade · May 2019

yeah, i only have a problem with this if you cant fulfill tanks basic duties. if i dont see you taunting and you queued as tank then you're gone. Otherwise do whatever you like. If the only tool you have is taunt then im happy, do you.

Tsar_Gekkou · May 2019

As long as you only do this in normal non-dlc dungeons, use a taunt, don't run everything around out of everyone's ground dots, and don't die, it's fine with me. I'd probably prefer it since most people in this game can't even hit 15K dps. I'm a mental midget when it comes to trying to dps and I can still hit 30K, so a fake tank with a taunt hitting around 20-25K would help most dungeon groups full of snipe spammers and ice-staff light attackers.

vesselwiththepestle · May 2019

idk wrote: »

We have gotten a healer that was a DK without a Resto. It does not get any more fake than that. We are good enough players we did not need a healer in nCoS and we chose to kick them just before the final boss for being a jerk, the no healer part was just icing on the cake. Velidreth on normal is easy enough to 3 man without a healer.

When I see that a group doesn't need healing, I start DPS as healer. Oh, I played a DK as healer for a while. A DK has an aoe heal and a single target burst heal, which should be enough to heal everything in normal dungeons, no resto staff needed.

I level via random normal all my stamina dps as tank and all my magicka dps as healer, because it's the fastet way while getting undaunted, fighter level and the skill points along the way. However, I do slot a taunt and silver leash as "fake tank" (in a good group I don't need to taunt, I just pull everything together and it dies almost instantly in the aoe - in a bad group I am doing 50% of the group dps with whirlwind spam on my back bar) and of course I slot heals as a healer...

As a general rule I find a tank more helpful than a healer in normal dungeons, because everyone can easily have a self heal, while a tank who's pulling the adds together is adding a lot more to group dps than 8% from combat prayer imo...

rossk25 · May 2019

I come across this most times, except for someone who did this in a normal dungeon. They weren't even in the CP cap. I kept pulling agro cause I was healer and the "tank's" dps was abysmal.

I told him to queue up as a DPS next time cause I'm sick of having to tank on a healer, but he responded by saying "this is a normal dungeon, if you can't Handel it then go do solo" (or something like that).

For me, the satisfaction was watching him constantly die, as I, the healer, was too busy tanking (and me refusing to heal him too haha). After dying the 100th time he raged it and left.

So for people who do this. Please for the love of God, have good DPS and ensure you can survive to speed run through the dungeon. Don't be like that guy.

Wandering_Immigrant · May 2019

As long as a DPS is taunting and grouping things for AoE, and of course surviving, I don't have a problem with it, honestly I don't even consider that to be "fake" tanking, not every dungeon requires a turtle tank.

I liken it to using the Warrior class as a tank in FFXI. When that game first launched with a level 50 cap Warriors were the de-facto tank, new updates brought harder content that Warriors were no longer able the hold up against and so the Paladin class was introduced as the new tank class and Warrior was shifted to a pure DPS role. However, Warrior still had their innate tools for tanking and against most non-endgame content a good Warrior not only could tank but in some situation was considered almost ideal for the damage they brought to the table.

It's the same here with que'ing as a tank on a DPS for normal dungeons, but you still have to bring those tools. If you're not grouping things and taunting then the extra damage you think you bring is being negated by everyone running around willy-nilly killing trash mobs 1 or 2 at a time rather than being able to focus on a spot and burn everything down.

Wolfpaw · May 2019

If ZOS would copy GW2 lfg system this wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Drako_Ei · May 2019

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Insta kick if your hp is below 30k. Had a dps with 17k hp queue up as a tank in vet scalecaller and would only use bow/bow. He tried saying that the undaunted taunt was better than the snb taunt and basically told us "too bad I'm only using this taunt". Proceeded to curse us out cause we kicked him. Even in non dlc's it's a vote kick. You wanna do that crap run with a pre made or find a group in zone to do it.

Im running torugs alkosh lightning staff crusher lord warden and my hp is 27k....

Rex-Umbra · May 2019

At least throw inner fire on your bar if your tanking.

idk · May 2019

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If ZOS would copy GW2 lfg system this wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Considering some of us have not played GW2 we do not know what you are talking about.

Wolfpaw · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If ZOS would copy GW2 lfg system this wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Considering some of us have not played GW2 we do not know what you are talking about.

You post lfg specifics as if your making a forum post, players lfg hit join on a lfg post that meets their playstyle choice, lfg system places said player into group (gives players opportunity to discuss), & when group is full the system places you in dungeon to begin.

GW2 LFG system.
1. No queue built in
2. No fake X opportunity
3. Player driven group composition & playstyle

Just some examples of a ESO version GW2 LFG system posts,

Lf2m CP300+ all dps speed run
Lf1m CP800+ Healer skin run, know fights
Lf3m any lvl dd/tank Pledge runs
Lf1m Storymode - No CP run

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

deepseamk20b14_ESO · May 2019

I’m for and against this. Very true that most dungeons can be done with a tank of DPS is high enough and the players are good. This is what I some times do with MY group, not pugs.

If doing it for a pug group you’re kind of ruining their experience.

Bealeb319 · May 2019

Back bar a sword and shield taunt bosses and no one cares?

James-Wayne · May 2019

You need to slot a Taunt bare minimal. Second is crowd control the mobs in vet dungeons and in normal dungeons where the other parties member are below level 50 as they may not have CP.

Then with your self heal and DPS your good.

OmniDo · May 2019

I "Fake" tank all the time.

Mostly because I:

Understand Mechanics and how hard I will be hit on my "Non-Tank" loadout
Know how to keep my healer alive (pssst...taunts are good, k)
Can survive situations that might kill an unprepared DPS, due to #1.

The OP has a point, but then so do many others in this thread.
Don't be a DERP.

If you're a BAMF and know how to fulfill the role of a "Tank" without having to use a "Proper Tank Loadout", then by all means, speed us along. If other DPS are QQ'ing because they are not BAMF's, well then...thats not my (our) problem?

FrancisCrawford · May 2019

Heelie wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I do it too but i respect the group by
1 only base game version 1 dungeon
2 no random so im sure its not 1 i cant do
3 leaving if it cause a problem

Respecting the group would be not queueing as a fake tank in the first place.

I can slot taunt on a dd, do 70% of the group damage, and get everyone through the dungeon, quicker than if I was a tank, in most normal dungeons, even the dlc ones. So i dont really see the issue here

If you take the aggro of bosses and (if any) of dangerous adds, survive, and hold the bosses still, then you're actually tanking. If you also cluster the adds well enough to enhance AoE damage, you're a decent tank.

Major Breach, Major Fracture, Minor Maim, infused Crusher, etc. are the right choices for some groups and not others. Better to bring them, then quickly swap builds if you've determined you shouldn't be running them.

kathandira · May 2019

Funny that Ive been following this thread. Had a fake tank in vWGT today. Dead on first boss the second I took a moment to heal the caged dps. Then on the first Daedroth, he was unable to keep aggro and died while the rest of the dps was trying to chase and kill it. He was a MagSorc with no taunt, and 20k health. High CP too. Voted to kick, and we got a real tank, and proceeded to breeze through the rest.

Some can pull it off, but not many in my experience as a healer.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · May 2019

Kick Fake Tanks.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · May 2019

gamerguy757 wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

So you do it so you can skip the long queue ahead of the more honest DPS, and so the bosses will attack and kill the squishy DPS because they aren't taunted by a tank, and make the healer's jobs harder.

In the vet OG dungeons, there’s rarely a mechanic that will insta kill a DPS. And those that do can be blocked. That’s why I’m saying don’t fake tank a DLC dungeon

WGT is a DLC dungeon. You Fake Tanked it.

Pevey · May 2019

I LOVE “fake” tanks in normal dungeons, provided that (1) they have decent (30k+) dps to justify queuing as a third dd and (2) they slot a taunt and stay TF still. No running away like an idiot, screwing up heals and dps.

Ozby · May 2019

I've noticed fake tanks and healers in vet dungeons now, while this might be doable in guild groups when pugging the group is normally less than optimal. I do not approve of fake tanking or healing, yes I get it some dps are slow and its painful but thems the breaks when pugging. Also most of these people who are fake tanking and healing are not actually bringing much to the group at all and most of them do not even do good dps. It really is out of control now and I am very tempted to kick all fake players from the groups. This kind of mentality will also put tanks and healers out of their jobs and there are players who only play tanks or healers what will they do if they are no longer needed in the game? Probably quit and go to something that needs them again.

Androconium · May 2019

gamerguy757 wrote: »

<snip>
We do this because we are sick of tanking really bad PUGs who can’t DPS an add. So if we queue as a tank, and we can DPS effectively we can speed through a dungeon without delay.
<snip>

I'm sure that all players in a PUG want to 'speed without delay'. Especially those farming dungeon kit.

But what about people that want to actually learn the dungeon through experience (other than a youtube experience)?
They arrive at the end with no real time to assess anything from the locations visited; to boss mechanics and story elements.
To rub salt into the would, next time these players try this dungeon, they get kicked for not knowing what to do.

If you find yourself in "a really bad PUG" again, drop out a fake-queue again.

Like, why do you even bother playing?

Riejael · May 2019

Requirements of my circle when we decide to run dungeons and rely on a random for tanking:

1. Weapon needs to be One Hand and Shield or Frost Staff.
2. HP > 30k
3. Taunt skill slotted and used.

That's it. Not much, but we do kick anyone who doesn't meet all three of those requirements. The reason is out of principle, the tank role is for tanks.

I get it, you all hate the long queues. I don't like them either. But booting faketanks will cause ZOS to change the situation. You all will simply be removed from the group for the greater good, and well its because its the democratic decision we've come to. No amount of pleading, insults, explanation, or reason will cause us to change our minds.

So instead make a plea to ZOS to somehow alleviate the DPS queues. One suggestion is to change the queuing system for normal non-DLC dungeons to allow any combination of roles. But until then, as I've said, my group will require a tank to be a tank.

Hotdog_23 · May 2019

I always queue as my role. The only time I will fake queue is when I have my dps sets on my tank and I can change in a real tank if needed. Even when I do queue like this I still have a sword and board for my back bar to taunt the boss and heavy hitters and provide fracture and breach.

You maybe completing but you are making it harder on your team just so you can skip queue.

Elwendryll · May 2019

First... Catchy title, not to say clickbait

As a DD who sometimes has to tank (Because tank dead or fake tank...), I'm totally fine with anyone who can fulfill the role, regardless of what they wear. They can deal 30k dps, have 18k life, as long as they keep the boss in place and apply fracture/breach I'm okay. Like, yesterday we did vDSA and I tanked the last boss with my DD, I just put my vMA build, VO + Night Mother + Iceheart. There are a lot of people who play tank and DD and are skilled enough to tank on a DD. When you're a good DD you're even more sensible to keep the boss in place as you *feel* how important it is to the dps.

Fake role isn't something I tolerate. But as long as you keep the boss in place and apply fracture on it, you're just a tank with a damage oriented build to me. And I think it helps everyone because there is a shortage of tanks in the group finder.

Anyway, when someone fake tank in my pug, I just tell them it's bad, and I do the job myself if it's needed. Just bring your own tank if you're planning on doing something challenging.

sudaki_eso · May 2019

I dont care what you do in normal dungeons, there a tank isnt really needed unless the whole group are complete new players. I often solo them just for fun or farming - a high cp player can do them alone - with a few exceptions.
If you queue for a vet dungeons and you do somehting like OP - not even using taunts or any other cc's or buffs - then i will try to kick you - in a pug. In a premade group where everybody agreed its not a problem.
A few weeks ago somebody wanted to do vet pledges and was asking for a tank in chat, just for fun i replied "fake tank here" and they invited me, slotted silver leash on my stam sorc and everything went fine - in a case like this everyone knows what to expect and its all good, but please dont be that a$§hole when pugging - or at least slot some taunts.

TelvanniWizard · May 2019

When I see a fake tank, I vote to kick. Always. That´ll teach a lesson to those rascals that 90% of the time are worthless and nothing but trouble for the group. If I can wait 30 min. to get in a dungeon every other dps can. Fake tanking is, in the end, a waste of time for everyone.

RodneyRegis · May 2019

As I see it, a good player will know that a taunt is required to tank, and preferably a cc or immobiliser and a leash. As long as they have these and can stay alive, I couldn't care less what health they have, and they will get us through quicker. Debuffs are nice, but if the DPS aren't hitting good numbers they make little difference.

A DPS with tanks skills is fine. Depends how you define 'fake'.

John_Falstaff · May 2019

Thing is, most people here who say "I'm a fake tank, but I slot taunt and position the boss" are selling themselves short by saying they're fake. If I have a tank who's in light armor, but is not a liability to the healer, does not die, keeps stuff in place and holds taunt? He's a real tank for all I care; it taunts like a tank, walks like a tank, survives like a tank, it's a tank. Sure, I appreciate when tank works to debuff things and buff me too, but if result is the same - he's just another flavor of tank then, bit more selfish but oh well. So I don't think that "I'm in light armor" is an argument for fake tanks as long as outward defining attributes of a tank are still there.

OP, who's not slotting taunt? Yup, completely different beast. And I can't really take the argument of "but he usually can carry whole group even faster" in all good faith. If it's personal experience, then my experience is different, I see mostly squishy dead fake tanks with no damage to speak of. And besides, if I wanted a 3DD/4DD run, I just ask in the guild, so everyone would consent to have such a run. I know things are possible, I happened to do vet Frostvault duo (guildmate on a petsorc was doing damage, I was tanking), but when I queue, it means I want traditional composition.

Pevey · May 2019

Riejael wrote: »

Requirements of my circle when we decide to run dungeons and rely on a random for tanking:

1. Weapon needs to be One Hand and Shield or Frost Staff.
2. HP > 30k
3. Taunt skill slotted and used.

That's it. Not much, but we do kick anyone who doesn't meet all three of those requirements. The reason is out of principle, the tank role is for tanks.

I get it, you all hate the long queues. I don't like them either. But booting faketanks will cause ZOS to change the situation. You all will simply be removed from the group for the greater good, and well its because its the democratic decision we've come to. No amount of pleading, insults, explanation, or reason will cause us to change our minds.

So instead make a plea to ZOS to somehow alleviate the DPS queues. One suggestion is to change the queuing system for normal non-DLC dungeons to allow any combination of roles. But until then, as I've said, my group will require a tank to be a tank.

It’s nuts to require more than 30k hp for a normal dungeon. Even a toon fully specced as a tank probably won’t run that for a normal dungeon because it would be a misallocation if stats.

You have wasted a lot of your own time and others’ with this rule.

SidraWillowsky · May 2019

Pevey wrote: »

You have wasted a lot of your own time and others’ with this rule.

A rule that wouldn't have been necessary had fake tanks not wasted a lot MORE time making peoples' dungeon runs a nightmare.