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VetCR, Vet HOF why are they so hard?
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theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't do vet content. I'm old, half blind, and have poor hand-eye coordination. The easiest content is still a challenge to me and I have been playing since closed beta. However what is a challenge for me can be just plain boring for normal younger peeps. A game like this needs multiple levels of difficulty in order to be as inclusive as possible in order to attract and keep a large player base. ZOS has done a good job of this so far with ESO. Adding a "story mode" for critical base dungeons would be a boon for peeps like me. Having hard vet levels+ needs to keep happening for those more proficient.5 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't do vet content. I'm old, half blind, and have poor hand-eye coordination. The easiest content is still a challenge to me and I have been playing since closed beta. However what is a challenge for me can be just plain boring for normal younger peeps. A game like this needs multiple levels of difficulty in order to be as inclusive as possible in order to attract and keep a large player base. ZOS has done a good job of this so far with ESO. Adding a "story mode" for critical base dungeons would be a boon for peeps like me. Having hard vet levels+ needs to keep happening for those more proficient.
The problem is that those difficulty layers are too far apart and go from one extreme to the other with no middle ground. Introducing a middle ground is the best way forward and the most inclusive means to provide sustainable, continuous content.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure what kind of middleground people expect to see. Either mechanics kill you (veteran) and you are forced to follow them or they can be healed through (normal) and thus can be completely ignored. I don't see any viable inbetween here.1 -
angelncelestine✭✭✭✭It is very possible to find groups that work around stuff like work, kids, dogs, whatever. They may be some what rare,(rare I think because most people DON'T wanna just run one night a week)but they are out there. My guild runs a progression group just on Saturday's for those reasons. We usually run for 2-3 hrs. Sure it might take us a couple weeks or so to clear something, but we get things done.1 -
B0SSzombie✭✭✭✭✭
✭After playing this game for a year and getting to max CP, and completing all of the World maps (Every icon in my game is White and filled in instead of Black and Blank, except Houses of course) I completely avoid Veteran Content besides Base Game Group Dungeons.
It's simply not fun for me.
The time it takes to get good at them is silly. The effort it takes to find a good group to do them is silly. Some of the people you meet that are good at the content are not good at being people. The rewards are worthless to me (Titles and Skins? Pass). And I consider PVP to be the same (And that goes for almost all games for me, not just ESO).
In the amount of time it takes to get good at something like Vet HM HoF, I could probably enjoy and beat another different game. Without the stress and anxiety.
But I ALSO understand that that is simply my preference for playing. I enjoy games like the standard Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. Solo games are my cup of tea, and this game has enough I can do on my own or with PUGs that I enjoy it immensely.
There must be a considerable player base that can beat that content, considering how often I see Vet Trial Carries advertised in Zone Chat (Although how often do people go for those? What's to be gained besides a Bust or a Title?)Edited by B0SSzombie on May 23, 2019 2:44PM0 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭This week our guild spent hours in Vet trials trying to get through them, I get that Vet content is supposed to be challenging but it's gotten to the point where the difficultly hugely out-weights the fun in this game. Who has time to come home from work/school, look after children and then spend any/all game time they have literally sat around on the same boss for 2 hours trying to get through it. ITS JUST NOT FUN AT ALL. This game has lost its sense of fun I feel, rather than just quit I want to play because I enjoy the game as a whole, but there are huge sections of this game that are needlessly hard for the hell of it! I wonder if anyone at Zenimax actually tests trails to see if they are viable...I doubt it.
Those trials are doable but VHof and VCR are completely different trial types. Imo VHof is a full, well designed, amazing trial with unique boss mechanics and several of the posses are pretty hard. It's very tank and healer heavy. VCR and VAS are my least favorite trials as the Hardmodes are simply layered mechanics and are overall very lazy designs.
II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
It's really not. But this is exactly the reason why normal is not good for practice. It is forgiving. You won't "git gud" until you are not able to skim by ignoring mechanics, no matter how close that skim will be. Taking an example from the OP, Overload is devastating on vet because it kills people. Overload on normal? It's a joke. You don't have to bother with it and pay attention since it can be healed through. And this pattern applies to most mechanics in the game.1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I haven't yet finished vCR because I missed a few runs with my progression group, including the one where they finished, but our first time in vCR was straight-up miserable. I think after 2-3 hours we got Galenwe down and that's it. It gets "easier" as you go, though- when I wasn't able to join, I followed along with my group for a few weeks. Each week they did better and each week they got closer, until they finally got it. I rejoined them a few weeks ago in a run where we didn't end up finishing (had to bring on a few pugs) but got Z'Maja down to about 50% in the end. Everything is still hard, but if you're as coordinated as possible it becomes much easier as you go.
I've not been to vHoF, but I know that, unlike most of the other vet content in the game, knowing the mechanics in and out will not make up for lack of DPS. Things to think about-
Are you having your DPS post their parses? My group has no hard minimum DPS for vCR eligibility because we're not super hardcore, but I think that almost every DPS -if not all- in the group pulls close to 40k on a 3 mil dummy.
Are you making sure that your group's gear is optimized? War horns and other ultimates planned out?
Do you have two assigned portal groups? We have an A group and a B group who switch off going down into the portals because of the debuff, and then we have two backups in case a group member is down.
For the mini bosses, are you making sure to work to get the griffin and its rider down as close to the same time as possible? If you don't, you'll most likely wipe.
For Z'Maja, do people know the order in which things need to be taken down?
I hated that first vCR (+0; I've only tried +0) run. It felt so stupidly hard and impossible.... it's obviously still really, really hard, but the more coordinated your group is, the easier things will feel.1 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They are difficult because they are designed to be difficult. That is why we have normal, vet, and hard mode.
Regardless of the difficulty you set the trial to, it is the same content. nHOF and vHOF have the exact same content. The same quest. The same lore. The same bosses. The same environment. The difference between normal and veteran is the difficulty and quality of the jewelry dropped.
Players who only run normal dungeons and trials are not being deprived of content. They are not being excluded from experiencing that dungeon or trial. Vet content exists for those players who want to challenge themselves. So if you don't enjoy progressing through difficult content then just play the dungeons and trials on normal. You aren't missing out on some super secret boss or quest which only exists in the vet mode. The trial doesn't visually look different on vet. There are not new areas available on vet that are not accessible in normal.
If you don't want to challenge yourself then play on normal, you will not be missing out on anything. If you want to challenge yourself and complete vet trials, then put in the effort to progress through them. I have completed every other vet trial and have been progressing through vet Sunspire this week. Whenever the group wipes after several hours I don't think, "Sheesh, they need to make this easier!". I acknowledge the fact that it is difficult and that I simply need to learn and improve.
That is an important life skill in general: Acknowledge shortcomings, learn how to overcome them, and then improve. Not everything in video games or life is going to be a cakewalk. Some things are going to challenge you. I'm not going to join an Ironman Marathon only to start complaining after 15 minutes that "it is too difficult and they need to make it easier!". I'm going to go into it with the mindset that it is difficult, it was designed to be difficult, and so I am going to have to push myself to complete this challenge. It might take practice. It might take several hours of trial and error. But that's exactly how we improve ourselves.Edited by Suddwrath on May 23, 2019 3:02PM6 -
Swainyboy✭✭✭They are difficult because they are designed to be difficult. That is why we have normal, vet, and hard mode.
Regardless of the difficulty you set the trial to, it is the same content. nHOF and vHOF have the exact same content. The same quest. The same lore. The same bosses. The same environment. The difference between normal and veteran is the difficulty and quality of the jewelry dropped.
Players who only run normal dungeons and trials are not being deprived of content. They are not being excluded from experiencing that dungeon or trial. Vet content exists for those players who want to challenge themselves. So if you don't enjoy progressing through difficult content then just play the dungeons and trials on normal. You aren't missing out on some super secret boss or quest which only exists in the vet mode. The trial doesn't visually look different on vet. There are not new areas available on vet that are not accessible in normal.
If you don't want to challenge yourself then play on normal, you will not be missing out on anything. If you want to challenge yourself and complete vet trials, then put in the effort to progress through them. I have completed every other vet trial and have been progressing through vet Sunspire this week. Whenever the group wipes after several hours I don't think, "Sheesh, they need to make this easier!". I acknowledge the fact that it is difficult and that I simply need to learn and improve.
That is an important life skill in general: Acknowledge shortcomings, learn how to overcome them, and then improve. Not everything in video games or life is going to be a cakewalk. Some things are going to challenge you. I'm not going to join an Ironman Marathon only to start complaining after 15 minutes that "it is too difficult and they need to make it easier!". I'm going to go into it with the mindset that it is difficult, it was designed to be difficult, and so I am going to have to push myself to complete this challenge. It might take practice. It might take several hours of trial and error. But that's exactly how we improve ourselves.
I understand where you are coming from, but this is a game, not life. Improving in Eso wont make you a better person. It's just a game, something people play for fun, it's not a test of character, or a growing experience but a game. That's the whole issue, the fact that this entertainment product, stops itself from being entertaining. People keep forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, not a chore.2 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Not all content is for everyone.
Have you considered normal trials? Vet DLC dungeons?
I too don't have time to dedicate to a vet trials practice schedule. So I don't do vet trials. I stick to vet DLC dungeons. Similar type of difficulty, but only requires coordination between 4 players and can thus be figured out fairly quickly.
Wernt you the guy acting like the sky was falling with the race changes last patch? but you dont do trials? Im confused.
Maybe it was someone else but im sure it was you, ignore if im mistaken you for them.2 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭You most certainly can beat these trials. They are challenging for a reason. I've done vHoF with a social guild (not a trials guild) and finished it in 3 raid sessions. What helps is a cooperative mentality where you collaborate on strategies to overcome obstacles. If you experience frustrations it can hinder your progress. Approach each obstacle with discussions and agree on a plan of action. Even the best guilds out there was in vHoF for some time before they mastered it. Many of them have posted detailed strategy guides online you can take a peek at.
vHoF is admittedly rough on supports and if you don't have strong supports it may take a little longer to get used to it, but you will if you stick with it.
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Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's just a game, something people play for fun, it's not a test of character, or a growing experience but a game. That's the whole issue, the fact that this entertainment product, stops itself from being entertaining. People keep forgetting that games are supposed to be fun, not a chore.
But that's the whole point of normal mode for trials and dungeons. Having a normal mode allows for players to experience that content without it being overly difficult. It would be a completely different story if say vHOF was the only version of HOF. There would no longer be a nHOF or vHOF, just HOF. It would be known as an immensely difficult trial, and it would exclude a large percentage of the playerbase from even being able to experience it.
That's why vet content is an option, not a requirement. Nobody is required to play through vHOF, but they have the option to if they would like to push themselves. Normal mode is great for just being able to relax and enjoy the lore/quest of the trial. Back before I could complete any vet content, I absolutely loved the normal Craglorn trials. I had completed the Craglorn story and watching it all come to a climax in those trials was so enjoyable. There's no way I could have enjoyed it that way if I had attempted those on vet.
And even for the more difficult vet trials, they become much easier when you learn the mechanics. Back when my guild was progressing through vMOL it was a nightmare. It took months of progressing through it before we beat it. Now, it's strange when a single person dies during the Twins fight since so much damage and death can be avoided by following mechanics.
So for any vet trial it will be difficult at first until everyone learns the mechanics. But once the mechanics have been learned, even the "difficult" vet trials can be enjoyable to play. In my experience, most of the frustration and rage-quit comes from not understanding mechanics. And learning mechanics just takes time alongside trial and error.5 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is a wide variety of difficulty in this game, pretty much everything is covered. Yes, sometimes the gap between a normal and vet version of a trial is huge. But there are other trials in between.
This is a game, and this is why it is interesting to have challenging content. After 4 years playing the same character, I hope there is still something too hard for me, I need a next challenge to overcome. I don't know who you're raiding with, but personally, I always have fun even when repeatedly wiping for 2 hours on the same boss. It depends on the mentality, when people focus on what was good, and overall stay in a good mood, when the only pressure is the one you put on yourself, it doesn't feel like a chore. I always have fun in trials, even when I can't clear the content yet.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH3 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭What do people in your group's vMA scores look like? Can they even complete it? That's probably a good indicator of how trials are going to go.Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger2 -
Swainyboy✭✭✭Back when my guild was progressing through vMOL it was a nightmare. It took months of progressing through it before we beat it.
Said it yourself, it was a "nightmare". That to me sounds like even you understand the game is more of a chore than fun. So many people defend this game to their dying breath because they have spent so much of their lives within it. The end game content is not fun, it requires everyone to stay quiet and listen to the leader, people to do as they are told and countless hours to make it through. That straight up aint fun, if someone suggests that their version of fun IS that, then they have led a very sheltered life.
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cheifsoap✭✭✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Back when my guild was progressing through vMOL it was a nightmare. It took months of progressing through it before we beat it.
Said it yourself, it was a "nightmare". That to me sounds like even you understand the game is more of a chore than fun. So many people defend this game to their dying breath because they have spent so much of their lives within it. The end game content is not fun, it requires everyone to stay quiet and listen to the leader, people to do as they are told and countless hours to make it through. That straight up aint fun, if someone suggests that their version of fun IS that, then they have led a very sheltered life.
That is not the end-game raiding that I do. We have a ton of fun doing trials, figuring out new mechanics, new ways of doing content. I've done score pushing, I've done progression. I've led raids with the purpose of teaching new people how to do content.
You really just need to find a different guild, if that's what your opinion of a raid group is... the grass probably is greener elsewhere.
The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points2 -
Swainyboy✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.
That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty. If a group is not good enough for Vet, then could try "Hard" for instance rather than be stuck at normal difficulty forever. It's great to have end game content that is for the top 5% of players, but what about everyone else? There's no real content for everyone else haha1 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elwendryll wrote: »It depends on the mentality, when people focus on what was good, and overall stay in a good mood, when the only pressure is the one you put on yourself, it doesn't feel like a chore. I always have fun in trials, even when I can't clear the content yet.
Absolutely.
One thing I always say to new players: NEVER join a trials guild. Join a guild that also happens to run trials.
That might sound silly, but hear me out: "Trials guilds" revolve around doing trials. They attract people looking to farm sets and complete content. In other words, they tend to attract players with more selfish goals. Finishing their set. Getting that skin. Making the leaderboard. In that type of environment you will be more likely to run into toxic players, and if even just one person has an attitude in the trial it can make it unenjoyable for everyone else.
BUT
If you join a guild who enjoys just doing stuff together (fishing contests, housing contests, outfit contests, social games, talking in Discord even when you aren't playing the game, etc) which also runs trials, then you will find those experiences to be much more enjoyable. In those types of guilds, you can be wiping at the same boss in vHOF for over 4 hours and still be laughing and having a good time together because the focus is on having fun and doing stuff together.
This isn't to bash trials guilds, but rather to encourage players to get involved with guilds who enjoy just doing stuff together. That way when you run trials, you will be much less likely to experience toxicity and you can still have fun even if you can't beat the trial.Edited by Suddwrath on May 23, 2019 3:46PM2 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Said it yourself, it was a "nightmare". That to me sounds like even you understand the game is more of a chore than fun.
The "nightmare" was referring to how long it took us to beat it since there were several times we came unbelievably close. But we went into it with the mentality of knowing it was going to take us a long time, so we still had fun. We spend a good chunk of the time just goofing off.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.
That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty. If a group is not good enough for Vet, then could try "Hard" for instance rather than be stuck at normal difficulty forever. It's great to have end game content that is for the top 5% of players, but what about everyone else? There's no real content for everyone else haha
vMoL is pretty easy... vMoL HM is quite challenging.
vHoF is challenging without good supports. vHoF HM is a joke, if you get a group that can get past the triplets, they should easily clear HM
vAS ramps up a lot from +0 to +2
vCR ramps up A TON from +0 to +3
A group of Craglorn pugs could easily clear vAS +0, or vCR +0
vSS isn't too difficult, vSS HM (Ice and Final boss in particular) are a significant step up in difficulty.
The tiers are there, just because you want to be a "casual" and have it be easy doesn't mean ZoS has failed in their design mechanics (at least not in this regard). You seem to be adamantly defending and indefensible position... as many have pointed out that many of your presumptions are not true.Edited by tmbrinks on May 23, 2019 3:39PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
Swainyboy✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.
That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty. If a group is not good enough for Vet, then could try "Hard" for instance rather than be stuck at normal difficulty forever. It's great to have end game content that is for the top 5% of players, but what about everyone else? There's no real content for everyone else haha
vMoL is pretty easy... vMoL HM is quite challenging.
vHoF is challenging without good supports. vHoF HM is a joke, if you get a group that can get past the triplets, they should easily clear HM
vAS ramps up a lot from +0 to +2
vCR ramps up A TON from +0 to +3
vSS isn't too difficult, vSS HM (Ice and Final boss in particular) are a significant step up in difficulty.
The tiers are there, just because you want to be a "casual" and have it be easy doesn't mean ZoS has failed in their design mechanics (at least not in this regard). You seem to be adamantly defending and indefensible position... as many have pointed out that many of your presumptions are not true.
Those are different versions of the same trial though, not actual different difficulty levels. I'm saying the game should have more of an accessible difficulty rather than less/more modes of the same trial.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.
That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty. If a group is not good enough for Vet, then could try "Hard" for instance rather than be stuck at normal difficulty forever. It's great to have end game content that is for the top 5% of players, but what about everyone else? There's no real content for everyone else haha
vMoL is pretty easy... vMoL HM is quite challenging.
vHoF is challenging without good supports. vHoF HM is a joke, if you get a group that can get past the triplets, they should easily clear HM
vAS ramps up a lot from +0 to +2
vCR ramps up A TON from +0 to +3
vSS isn't too difficult, vSS HM (Ice and Final boss in particular) are a significant step up in difficulty.
The tiers are there, just because you want to be a "casual" and have it be easy doesn't mean ZoS has failed in their design mechanics (at least not in this regard). You seem to be adamantly defending and indefensible position... as many have pointed out that many of your presumptions are not true.
Those are different versions of the same trial though, not actual different difficulty levels. I'm saying the game should have more of an accessible difficulty rather than less/more modes of the same trial.
but the difficulty IS different... lolThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points2 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty.
I agree that there need to be different steps in difficulty, but ESO just goes about it in a different way than WoW. Rather than having a difficulty system along the lines of "normal -> hard -> veteran -> nightmare -> dont even attempt this, etc", ESO's difficulty tier is in the trials themselves. If a group can't complete vMOL, then they should progress through all of the Craglorn HM's. If a group can't complete vCR then they need to complete vMOL and vHOF first. So there is a "tier" of difficulty in that sense, but it isn't the way that say WoW does it. But ESO still provides a tiered system for guilds to work their way up through the vet trials.0 -
Chicharron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Getting the Perfect Olorime Set cost me a lot of time, and sometimes it was frustrating.
And all that for just 1k more magicka, after that i decided not to waste my time on a vTrial never, is not worth it.
But I agree that it has to be very hard otherwise everyone would do it.0 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭I say this as someone whose progression groups didn’t get the first mini down in vCR+0 and didn’t get past the twins in vMoL (got them to execute three times): this content is meant to be hard. It is meant to be a hurdle you truly battle through. Because that is the point of endgame content. If you can’t do it, there is no shame on going for normal. It’s what I do. I agree progression runs which go nowhere can be miserable, they can also be a laugh with the right group, hence why I keep doing them. If it isn’t fun, don’t force yourself to do it. But let’s not nerf content for doing its job.0 -
cheifsoap✭✭✭✭✭@Royaji it's not really that binary thought, is it. I get what you're saying... But what constitutes normal is not good for 'practice' or improvement of player skill.
That's honestly my biggest complaint between Normal --> Vet --> HM.
The gap between normal and vet is huge and there is no middle difficulty content to actually teach the mechanics. The gap between Vet --> HM is there but it isn't as bad so long as you have the vet mechanics down.
I think the "gap" are simply the mechanics. In a lot of normal content mechanics can either be completely ignored or its easy to recover from.
That where WoW does it well. They should have multiple steps in difficulty. If a group is not good enough for Vet, then could try "Hard" for instance rather than be stuck at normal difficulty forever. It's great to have end game content that is for the top 5% of players, but what about everyone else? There's no real content for everyone else haha
vMoL is pretty easy... vMoL HM is quite challenging....
No one has the real statistics but if less than 10% of the player base experiences this, its a pretty crappy business model IMO.0
