Please FIX the lighting in Elsweyr ASAP!!!

bluebird · May 2019

I've been complaining about the lack of lighting and bugged windows in Eslweyr over on the housing feedback thread, but even after several PTS updates nothing seems to have changed. So now I'm starting to panic that Elsweyr may actually go live like this which would be a disaster that ruins the visuals of almost every interior in the game, and also makes all the work that went into creating detailed furnishings go to waste. So please fix the lighting!

I'm not sure if it's just me on my setup (I'd be surprised but happy, so by any means please prove me wrong people!) but Elsweyr interiors seem to be the worst ever made when it comes to lighting. The windows in player homes are bugged and don't light up properly. Same for non-player-home buildings that remain extremely dark as they don't get enough illumination either from windows or lamps. Elsweyr interiors are thus completely out of touch, and look like dark basements rather than the welcoming inns they're supposed to be, in a warm sunny zone. If anybody actually saw well-lit Elsweyr interiors with working windows, please let me know as I'd actually be extremely relieved to be wrong.

Here are some comparison images that should make it clear why the lighting in Elsweyr is a huge problem

On the left we see the utterly bugged windows of Elsweyr. The top left is from Jode's Embrace, the bottom left is from the Sugar Bowl Suite inn room. The windows clearly don't light up. On the right we see examples of other interiors (also taken at the same time, during daytime), with examples of windows working properly and how big of a difference it makes. Top right is the House of the Silent Magnifico in Sentinel, and bottom right is Sleek Creek House outside Rawlkha. I can't understand why a chapter that ships with such a pricetag has broken windows (not to mention additional costs, such as Jode's Embrace probably costing a bunch of crowns on top of that). Did nobody check that they worked?

Even worse than player housing are the non-player-house interiors that we can't even attempt to 'fix' by having to add tons of extra lights ourselves. Top left is Rimmen palace, a similar model to Jode's Embrace, with the same bugged windows, and the interior in there is incredibly dim. You can barely make out many of the furniture, and have basically no chance to see the intricate details on the smaller items. We also can't see the warm colours (brown, red, rich blues, golds, some greens) of the interior for what they actually are, as the darkness obscures everything. Top right is a shot from Kragenhome, and sadly even dark elf houses in volcanic wastelands let in more light than the houses of sunny, warm Elsweyr.

Bottom left is what the Sugar Bowl inn looks like during daytime. It's supposed to be a luxurious and comfortable Elsweyr inn. And it would be, if we could see anything. The view distance in there (with three windows!) is abysmal, you can't see about 70% of the tapestry's details, and you can't see the colours properly. The wall in the magnified section is the same red as the wall next to the candles. Bottom right is Orsinium Keep, which is literally carved into the side of a mountain and is still better lit. Neither the walls nor the celiing nor the red tapestries way above me fade into darkness as much as the tapestry a few meters away in Elsweyr.

Bonus activity: Let's play 'spot the guard and the redguard' in the inn. Time yourself how long it takes you to actually see them, winner gets a sweetroll (that they can eat as they cry after all the failed lights in Elsweyr destroy their hopes and dreams).

Top left here is the outside of Rimmen, on a cloudy day too, still with warm colours and vibrant contrasts from the red and green bits. Top right is one of the Cantons in Vivec obviously, which doesn't exactly have windows either and thus serves to highlight how bad the next image is. The next image, bottom left, is the interior of the Sugar Bowl Inn downstairs. I included it to show that the problem isn't just the broken windows as in the earlier Sugar Bowl image, but also that the lights that were placed in the houses don't do the job. Instead of staying the rich warm browns, strong reds, luxurious golds and lush greens (that we see outside or if we place the furniture in our own home and blast them with a clockwork illuminator or something), the colours all fade into dark browns and pale browns. Bottom right is the single 'working' window I found, on one of the walls of the Sugar Bowl Inn room, but it's too little too late.

On the whole, the colours of Elsweyr are almost all lost, as the interiors are incredibly dark and dull and fade into a monotonous shadowy earth-tone blob. It's heartbreaking to see the potential of the entire zone and the much-awaited Khajiiti architecture fall so painfully short. All it would've taken to make the colours flourish and the details pop was to put some stronger lights in the interiors and to brighten up the many bugged windows that are currently dragging down the buildings into even more darkness.

Suggestion: either go back and fix all the bugged windows ASAP, or at the very least chuck some britghter lights in there instead of those two sad candles per house that seems to be the average (which is clearly inadequate). It's genuinely bad to play in Elsweyr at the moment because the interiors are all terrible. Don't make us stare at bugged windows please. And don't do a disservice to the furniture designers by making all details and colours almost entirely obsured by the dim lighting.

You can see my original comment with more pictures (so I don't have to repost them here) on the housing feedback thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/468637/pts-update-22-feedback-thread-for-housing-furnishings/p1

PS: And yes, I'm aware that my gamma settings are quite extreme. I don't play that way on live, but changed it on the PTS since with my normal settings everything in Elsweyr was faded into a washed out camel color with no contrast whatsoever. However I took the comparison images on the PTS with the same settings so clearly the older interiors such as the Redguard, Khajiit and Vvardenfell inns don't have the same problems that seem so rampant in Elsweyr. That said, the disclaimer at the start of the post still stands, if this is somehow just me and the windows and lights work properly for others, I'll be the happiest to have been wrong, honestly.

Dracheimflug · May 2019

It's not just you. I have had similar problems (and bug reported them). However most do not seem to have the same problem. Or at least gotten no sympathetic responses to comments I've made here or to those I have made in game....

Davadin · May 2019

u get a +insightful for those hilarious screenshots!

RaddlemanNumber7 · May 2019

Why would Khajiit need more light when they can see in the dark.

ZOS_GinaBruno · May 2019

Thanks for the post and screenshots, @bluebird. Just letting you know we've seen this thread and passed it along to the appropriate teams to review.

LukosCreyden · May 2019

@DaveMoeDee fixing abilities that are not functioning correctly should be (and likely IS) a top priority. "Just use other abilities" doesn't cut it.

Dracheimflug · May 2019

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Why would Khajiit need more light when they can see in the dark.

You do realize that we are also testing as Khajiit, right?

[Quoted post has been removed.]

So if all abilities were balanced perfectly, you would not care if you were playing completely in the dark? You should let the Dev's know. They could save a ton from the art budget...

bluebird · May 2019

Oh, didn't expect an actual ZOS response, thanks for forwarding it to the appropriate teams Gina! I'm not sure what can be done at this point, but I appreciate trying at least - while the gamma settings may vary, the windows are definitely bugged and it seems from other people's reports that the light issue isn't just on my setup.

Thanks to everyone else who chimed in with their feedback as well!

[Quoted post has been removed.]

No, most of players dont care about house things and its annoying after 3hours they responded on this useless thing where there's still many problems with necro skills which should be more important because its GAMEPLAY not casual thing.[/quote]
Do note that necromancer abilities have been getting update after update in every PTS patch, with several threads and ZOS responses to the changes, while the lighting issue was buried in the housing feedback thread with no attention. Necros also got their own separate wrap-up thread which highlights that ZOS have been closely monitoring the situation and will continue to work on many known issues.

Besides, the necromancer is included in the price of Elsweyr at no extra cost, while Jode's Embrace will (most likely) be a paid limited time crown store exclusive purchase. Many manors ingame already cost more than the entire Elsweyr chapter. So housing bugs deserve to be fixed just as much (or more, if we look at the cost-benefit) as issues with a single ability.

But the existence of some issues doesn't take away from the existence of other issues. And as others pointed out, the combat team likely aren't the same people who work on lighting.

Hymzir · May 2019

Hmm... Looks odd. I'm not seeing that in my game.

This is my Sugar Bowl suite, with a quick and dirty layout to mimic the load screen. (It's a thing I do with inn rooms)

The only light sources are the two sconces and the one candle - rest is the ambient light. The pic was taken around noon in game. Not really seeing an issue with the light here.

The candles have a fairly short range though, and that image is taken to mimic the load screen. Here are couple of shot where I am standing more closer to the candles.

After seeing your images and the abysmal light I logged on to the PTS and checked things out, and am really not seeing what you are getting.

Conditions outside when taking these pics

Tavern

Guildhall

Palace

To me things seem to render just fine. I have calibrated my gamma per the instructions in game, and am not running any extra effects. I have max graphic settings (except I have no DoF since I dislike it), have max draw distance and particle systems and am using Ambient Occlusion (SSAO).

I see no issues with ambient light and the windows work for me at least.

Not disputing your issues, just pointing out that I am not getting anything even remotely resembling your screencaps. So maybe its a driver issue or something. It certainly looks like something is wrong there. Hope it gets sorted out.

bluebird · May 2019

Hymzir wrote: »

This is my Sugar Bowl suite, with a quick and dirty layout to mimic the load screen.

Kind of you to do so, but perhaps it may have been a better comparison to take the screenshots in the same places, without added light furnishings. As in the windowed hallway of the Palace and Jode's Embrace which don't seem to do anything, or the inn room's three other windows I stated were unlit, not the one that even I found to be lit as per my screenshots.

I did also mention that my gamma settings may certainly exacerbate the issue, but since this doesn't affect other interiors with the same settings as I highlighted with comparative screenshots, Elsweyr windows and lights are visibly bad in comparison. The 'ambient light levels' are perfectly fine in Sleek Creek and the Sentinel house with the same gamma settings. The Saint Delyn Waistworks, which only has one single window (and even that is a secondary skylight filtering light from the plaza above), is still better lit than Elsweyr.

I also tried to crank up my gamma so the middle symbol was clearly visible and while the colours did lighten up by becoming pretty low-contrast and washed out, the interiors still remained comparatively dim. I wouldn't call your screenshots particularly well-lit for example - the top half of the tapestry and the walls are obscured in your pics as well, and the windows seem dysfunctional (they seem to cast no light or shadow like the Sleek Creek or Redguard ones do) with the only illumination being spot lighting via candles.

Hymzir · May 2019

bluebird wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

This is my Sugar Bowl suite, with a quick and dirty layout to mimic the load screen.

Kind of you to do so, but perhaps it may have been a better comparison to take the screenshots in the same places, without added light furnishings. As in the windowed hallway of the Palace and Jode's Embrace which don't seem to do anything, or the inn room's three other windows I stated were unlit, not the one that even I found to be lit as per my screenshots.

I did not recognize all the places in your screenshot - they were kinda dark after all. So I just ran around taking pics here and there. Not that there are all that many interiors in Rimmen anyway, and I was running on my low-ass level North American character copy, so didn't really feel like trying to start picking locks. That mean I really had just The Sugar Bowl and the Suite, Guild Hall and the Palace to take pics in. And the bank, but I don't want to enter that place - at all. I am so miffed with the disconnect between its interior and exterior.

Anyway here is the Sugar Bowl Suite with the three candles extinguished:

Pics taken at 4:30 in the afternoon, so the windows have a fairly distinct cast light on the west side of the room:

I also tweaked my gamma, and turned it down to what is basically just below the recommended value. No issues with light for me.

Can't do much at Jode though, that place is listed as not available for purchase at the moment, so can't tweak the light there. This is what the entrance looks in my game, with the gamma set just below the recommended value:

It's about 5:15 ingame when that pic was taken. No issues with the ambient light. The place certainly could use a chandelier or something, since it is so frigging tall of a room, and those braziers simple wont light up the whole space. Didn't see anything wrong with windows, except that there was no cast light, even though they point towards west. Well, more towards south west.Began thinking could the angle be just really tight on them, for the cast light to appear or something, and it was starting to get late in the afternoon. While thinking about this I got kicked out from there and got sent back to Rimmen, and the outside conditions were like this at that time:

Then ran up to the palace and took a few shot at the corridors there:

That's the south corridor - the lanterns pretty much dominate it light wise. Here's the north one:

You an see the ambient light level of the palace in the foreground, and the lanterns lighting up the hall at pretty brightly at the back. Its about 5:30 or so when those pics were taken, so it's not really that bright outside and the windows are quite dim at this point. I did expect a cast light though, since those window point pretty much west. Was bit surprised not to see any.

After fiddling with the screenshot files a bit, I decided to jump back to Sugar Bowl and see what the cast light there looked like, since those three windows point pretty much directly towards west:

It' pretty much six o'clock, the start of the evening, and no cast light anymore. I though maybe it was some sort of glitch or something, and quit the game and restarted and logged back and still no cast light. It's gonna take quite a while before the sun rises again, and am of to bed so can't do much more checking at this time.

So I'm a bit hesitant to make a call on this, I don't feel I have enough data to be really make one, but since I will most likely be uninstalling the PTS after I wake(need to free the space for Monday...) this will have to suffice - so... I get the impression that the windows are on a really tight angle, and the cast light appears only briefly. I can't say for sure, but it certainly looks so based on this limited test, and maybe ZOS needs to tweak the settings on those things a bit. In the shots I posted, given the location of the windows, and the time of day, and the position of the sun, and the weather outside, there certainly should've still have been cast light after 5 o'clock.

But other than that, I really did not have any issues with lighting.

I wouldn't call your screenshots particularly well-lit for example - the top half of the tapestry and the walls are obscured in your pics as well, and the windows seem dysfunctional (they seem to cast no light or shadow like the Sleek Creek or Redguard ones do) with the only illumination being spot lighting via candles.

The pics in my original post were taken at midday. The sun was at it's peak, I would've found it rather odd for there to be any cast light at that time, seeing as the sun was directly above the buildings. You do see it in my Sugar Bowl suite pics in this post. But as I noted earlier, they did disappear shortly after five o'clock which felt odd to me, since I was kinda expecting them to be around at least till seven in the evening.

And as for no being well lit... That is subjective - I assume you mean this one:

It's actually more bright that it has any business being, seeing as there are only four small candles in the room, and the three windows are fairly small and quite low on the wall. They also have curtains around them further obstructing any "light" they might let pass through them. But that's were expediency of game play trumps realism.

Candles don't really emit all that much light, and the texture on the windows doesn't look like glass to me. Maybe they are supposed to be made of horn or dried animal skins or oiled paper. All of which have been used as windows panes in our world before glass became affordable to everyone. Would explain their coloring too, and I think such construction methods would fit Khajit culture quite well. But yeah, the light levels are more than reasonable given the light sources in that room.

bluebird · May 2019

I'm sure the devs appreciate the screenshots, and including your exact settings is actually very informative!
However your pictures didn't disprove what I said, and in fact supported it.

I mentioned repeatedly that gamma settings vary, I simply said that Elsweyr is lit worse than other places. I said that comparitively Elsweyr interiors are too dim - and I provided comparisons with the same settings in Sentinel, Rawlkha, Orsinium and Vvardenfell, the latter two of which have no true windows of their own but have sufficient lighting that makes up for it. You didn't compare them to any other interior (I mentioned exactly where I took my screenshots) simply seem to say that the interiors are fine to be this dim.

I also said that the windows don't seem to work properly, and your pictures didn't show otherwise. The single window on the shorter wall of the inn room seems to light up brightly, yet the other windows don't even when they are casting lightbeams. None of the windows in the Palace of Jode Embrace corridors seem lit on your images either.

And since we couldn't consider these interiors reasonably lit compared to the interior lights elsewhere (no pun intended

), my suggestion to increase the lights by either fixing the windows, or by adding more lamp furnishings, or both, would only improve Elsweyr so it's on par with other interiors and not dimmer than windowless dark elf structures or orc keeps. You can't make the case for instance that the 'North corridor' in your pictures is a better version of lighting than the 'South corridor', nor that it sufficiently highlights the detailed work and colours that went into the furniture, nor that it suits the Elsweyr exteriors, colours and aesthetic more than the lit one.