play necro, zos nerf everything so people try and buy elsweyr.

im really sure medium stamblade gonna feel so much different in elsweyr. no fracture, minor berserk, minor endurance, defile and stun.
all gap closer improvement but teleport strike, magicka get easy mobility with race against time.

lethal arrow get nerfed btw while reverb + dots build are everywhere

time to play any stamina but nb with 1hs + 2h, 7th, fury, bs.

not mention bosmer stalth detection on recent patch, a really handy skill everyone wanted.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Single target damage isnt a good bench mark.

They nerfed every aspect of nightblade. Who are the best tanks? Healers? Aoe? Group?

It isnt nightblades. But none of these nerf campaign folks were satisfied or willing to "adapt." They wanted the one thing nbs were good at to be nerfed.

Its amazing that we can say
dks are the best tanks.
Templars are the best healers,
Wardens the best aoe/group, and
sorcs the best range dps

And thats perfectly fine

But nightblades excelling at melee single target damage? That needs to be nerfed.

Thats not balance.

Single target Damage is THE bench mark for pve dps.

For PvE dps barely anything changes for stamblades. All the Things they lost they get from Group buffs. They even got the sustain buff from reave. The Change for stamblade is that stamcro is simply gonna be stronger most likely and with the new set you wont Need war machine anymore which stamblade ran the most efficiently.

Warden isnt the best at anything Talking PvE, you just Need one to place a blood altar so everyone gets 10% more Health.

Sorc isnt the best ranged dps.

PvE dps will never be balanced unless absolutely everything gets equalized. Its simply king of the hill and nightblade has been king for About 2 years now.

Over your head maybe?

Single target damage is how we measure tanks? healers? Aoe? Group?

Secondly, point out were I said PVE.

You wont because i didnt. This game has both pve AND pvp. And more roles than just dps.

To only use the part of the game to create balance doesnt work.

Because every nerf that effects one side effects all.

And again you ignore every aspect of the class and its nerfs to justify nerfing the one thing it excelled at.

No where did you even acknowledge any role besides nb dps. And if the buffs are offered by other classes, what is the justification for removing from nb?

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Over your head maybe?

Single target damage is how we measure tanks? healers? Aoe? Group?

Secondly, point out were I said PVE.

You wont because i didnt. This game has both pve AND pvp. And more roles than just dps.

To only use the part of the game to create balance doesnt work.

Because every nerf that effects one side effects all.

And again you ignore every aspect of the class and its nerfs to justify nerfing the one thing it excelled at.

No where did you evan acknowledge any role besides nb dps. And if the buffs are offered by other classes, what is the justification for removing from nb?

Nice of you to conveniently ignore the pve dbs behind single target Damage and take something out of context completely.

And in the first post of me that you quoted I was Talking About pve dps so I assumed that you would actually talk About what you Quote how silly of me, you seem to be quite Adept at taking Things out of context so Maybe I should´ve expected that.

Again because of a previous post I replied to I was Talking About only PvE dps because that is where nightblade has been king for years as a possible reason for nerfing nightblade.
You quoting this and then Talking About something completely different? Not my fault. I was sharing a possible reason why the devs thought that nightblade Needs to be nerfed, reason being overperforming compared to other classes in one aspect of the game.

The buffs are offered by support roles (and you get them all from weapon abilities Fancy that) and Maybe the justification for removing them was that multiple nightblade abilities were simply overloaded? Also why do other classes have to use weapon abilities or sets to get those buffs/debuffs but nightblade hasnt to? Where´s the reason for that?

Also can nightblades please stop acting as if they get nerfed horribly? Elsweyr changes are a massive buff pvpwise if you just adapt gear and ability wise.

Ignore? I explicitly stated that single target dps was a bad benchmark.

It just happens that its a bad bench mark in pve and pvp. But you justifying your reason for ignoring every other role and aspect of the game is inadvertently proving the point. (yet still missing it)

Nightblades have been nerfed everywhere. Not just single target dps.

Yet thats conveniently ignored because the nerf crowd wanted single target dps to get the hammer as well.

And how are you asking for "nightblades to stop acting like they were nerfed horribly" when you are litterally in a nightblade post campaigning nerfs? If the nerf crowd would put a lid on it, they wouldnt garner a response.

I have no issue with you asking for improvements to any class. But apparently you do. Thus here you are.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Ignore? I explicitly stated that single target dps was a bad benchmark.

It just happens that its a bad bench mark in pve and pvp. But you justifying your reason for ignoring every other role and aspect of the game is inadvertently proving the point. (yet still missing it)

Nightblades have been nerfed everywhere. Not just single target dps.

Yet thats conveniently ignored because the nerf crowd wanted single target dps to get the hammer as well.

And how are you asking for "nightblades to stop acting like they were nerfed horribly" when you are litterally in a nightblade post campaigning nerfs? If the nerf crowd would put a lid on it, they wouldnt garner a response.

I have no issue with you asking for improvements to any class. But apparently you do. Thus here you are.

ignore
verb [ T ] uk ​ /ɪɡˈnɔːr/ us ​ /ɪɡˈnɔːr/
​
to intentionally not listen or give attention to:

Yes you ignored that I took single target dps as the bench mark for pve dps and Nothing else and instead wrote that I apply it to everything. Textbook Definition of ignored.
Here´s the Quote for you with part in Question bolded so that you may actually see it.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Single target Damage is THE bench mark for pve dps

The only nightblade nerf I was actively campaigning for was to remove the silence from incap there is a difference between actively campaigning for nerfs and not minding nerfs. I dont mind nightblade loosing some overloaded stuff but the only Thing I campaigned for was the incap silence removal.

Nightblades have not been nerfed everywhere, in fact in PvP they will be quite a bit stronger, stamblades at the very least, magblade perhaps not so much with cripple loosing Expedition.

My first post in here was responding someone a possible reason for nightblade changes, Nothing more, in fact in all of my Posts in this Topic Im Talking About PvE dps being a possible reason for the changes and not Screaming for any nerfs but pls go ahead and Show me where I actively demand minor berserk etc to be removed without getting anything back? Since I apparently wrote that in here?

For another lap. PVE and PVP are not balanced separately.

Neither are the roles.

Youre in a nightblade post repeatedly stating that nightblade has been the kings of dps.

Dps is ranged, melee, aoe and single target. Nightblade excelled in one. All were nerfed for the sake of single target. Just so happens to effect pvp. But we should ignore that.. right.

Hence why you cant use 1 as a benchmark for all.

Plus

"I was sharing a possible reason why the devs thought that nightblade Needs to be nerfed, reason being overperforming compared to other classes in one aspect of the game."

And

"Maybe the justification for removing them was that multiple nightblade abilities were simply overloaded? Also why do other classes have to use weapon abilities or sets to get those buffs/debuffs but nightblade hasnt to? Where´s the reason for that?"

These came from you. This is your campaign to justify nerfs. Acting like your opinion was the devs does not work. The devs speak for themselves via patch notes.

If a girl gets dumped and I tell her "maybe the guy left you because youre ugly," is going to be me offending her. Or should I be suprised if i get slapped? lol

Royalthought wrote: »

For another lap. PVE and PVP are not balanced separately.

Neither are the roles.

Youre in a nightblade post repeatedly stating that nightblade has been the kings of dps.

Dps is ranged, melee, aoe and single target. Nightblade excelled in one. All were nerfed for the sake of single target. Just so happens to effect pvp. But we should ignore that.. right.

Hence why you cant use 1 as a benchmark for all.

Yes they are all balanced together. Did I state otherwise anywhere? Something overperforming in one area causes nerfs, thats just how this game is balanced, we dont have to like it but thats what happens sooner or later. And since pve and pvp are balanced together one is gonna affect the other, again thats just what we have to deal with regardless of what class gets nerfed, templar pve dps for example wasnt happy when Jesus beam was made near useless because of it being very strong in pvp.
Im stating that nightblade has been the king of pve dps, which is true if you look at parses, leaderboards and Group compositions,
Im not Talking About PvP dps and honestly you cant really use dps as a Concept in PvP since its About Landing burst and having pressure, cc and about either utilising mistakes of your Opponent or simply being better but a dps parse for example doesnt Show what a class can be capable of in PvP.
Again no one was using dps/single target as a benchmark for all, it was specified by me that I only use it as a benchmark for the pve Damage dealer role so can we please stop Talking About that? Or do you really want to continue debating that particular point?

Royalthought wrote: »

Plus

"I was sharing a possible reason why the devs thought that nightblade Needs to be nerfed, reason being overperforming compared to other classes in one aspect of the game."

And

"Maybe the justification for removing them was that multiple nightblade abilities were simply overloaded? Also why do other classes have to use weapon abilities or sets to get those buffs/debuffs but nightblade hasnt to? Where´s the reason for that?"

These came from you. This is your campaign to justify nerfs. Acting like your opinion was the devs does not work. The devs speak for themselves via patch notes.

If a girl gets dumped and I tell her "maybe the guy left you because youre ugly," is going to be me offending her. Or should I be suprised if i get slapped? lol

This is not my "Campaign to justify nerfs" this is trying to make People like you see reason, that nerfs might actually happen because the devs have a reason! Unbelievable Right? Do you believe that they just throw Darts to deceide nerfs or something? You and others are campaigning against These nerfs because you do not think them to be fair and Im not allowed to Point out that there might be possible reasons for them that negatively Impact other sides of nightblades because how this game is balanced? This is the equivalent of demanding nerfs? Saying that balance changes are not being pulled out of thin air?

You talk About the devs speaking for themselves via patch notes but all of you are in denial that any of what the devs spoke About might be justified, fair or balanced or whatever word you want to use, so why not let the devs speak for themselves and instead make post after post after post of whining that for example minor berserk removal, which is something the devs think is fair since they communicated that via patch notes, is actually not fair?

Im not acting as if my opinion is the one of the devs, the word "possible" implies that it may be a reason of the devs but it doesnt have to be Im not stating it as a fact but a possibility as in not necessarily true but an Option. If you want I can copy paste you a Dictionary entry About the word "possible" and what it means, perhaps that might help you understand?
Above is also true for the word "Maybe" and if you want I can also copy paste a dicitionary entry for that particular word.
The devs themselves stated that some abilities for example incap were overloaded so yeah I sure am acting like my opinion is the reasoning of the devs.
If anything you and others are trying to act like your opinion Counts more for balancing the game than the one of the actual devs by demanding Things be changed again and that you know better.

Also repeating the Question: Why is it balanced that other classes Need to Slot weapon abilites or sets for certain buffs and debuffs but one class gets it all? For me this seems to be the exception to the rule that now gets adjusted.

I dont see what delibaretly being insulting to someone has to do with possible reasons for a balance Change in a Video game but there is quite a difference between insulting someone and Talking About possible reasons for a balance Change in a Video game just in case you didnt know.

Royalthought wrote: »

Whew, so much... words. lol. (no offense)

The devs respond to players on the forum demanding nerfs.When you add to that number, that garners more dev attention.

It does NOT have to be an improvement in balance to warrant a nerf. Just an opinion made popular.

Now, if you view skills in a vacuum you will ruin balance. Not fix it. Hence this conversation and the point that still hasnt landed for you.

Youre saying thats how it works and Im telling you that doesnt work. It results in AoE skills rivaling single target damage. Tanky builds having glass canon burst. etc.

The only way to strive for balance to consider all that it effects. If you want a class thats a low level tank, healer, aoe/group class to be brought in line on single target. Fine. But you cannot create balance unless its also buffed to also rival other classes in tankining, healing, etc.

Youre justifying nerfing single target alone just so other classes can have a similar number on a target dummy. Yet theres no parse to test, AoE, healing, tanking, etc.

I agree that it does not Need to be an actual improvement, sadly something being perceived as too strong already can lead to nerfs or changes.

Whenever did I view something in a vacuum? Viewing SA or relentless loosing their buffs/debuffs in a vacuum would make this a heavy nerf in all aspects of the game, but if you actually look at other changes and the game itself the Change will not matter in endgame pve and in pvp you got compensated with minor vulnerability in Exchange for berserk and can get fracture from other class abilites (mark target is free to cast) or weapon abilities or sets so if you view the changes in context of everything else they actually Arent as bad as People like you are making them out to be.
Nightblade is getting buffs in tankyness and mobility, the funny Thing is that next to no nightblade even acknowledges These changes existance so you are getting buffed in other Areas but simply refuse to see it. Many good PvPers that I know agree that heavy armor stamblade next patch is gonna be much stronger than before but nearly all nightblades are acting as if the positive changes dont exist.
That seems like a skewed perception of balance if you ask me, only Looking at the negatives and not even noticing or acknowledging that positives are there is no way to help contribute to a more balanced game but again thats just me.

Also for me one of the big Problems balancing in this game has is that pve and pvp are not sepparated, as a result you have to manage two very different gamemodes with very different challenges that are not even close to needing the same stuff which Always leads to Problems and Always starts the pve vs pvp Forum wars.

There will Always be some Degree of Imbalance and there will Always be a meta, this might just be an attempt to shift it, if we continue Talking PvE then there is only 3 roles for 5 soon to be 6 classes, someone will not be the best at something now it might simply be nightblades turn at the "not the best at anything in PvE spot" if you want to call it that. Other classes have been there and not everyone Plays all 3 roles, my mains for example are magplar dps and magdk dps, until murkmire I simply could not Play either without Feeling like gimping my Group because nightblade was just so much better, my magdk is now a tank so yeah there will Always be not so cool spots for Setups thats simply how it is, it sucks but it will likely not Change.

The only way diversity in PvE will be achieved is by forcing it through unique passives, buffs, debuffs or similar or making every class the exact same only with different visuals and animations, personally the latter is not the balance I want since why even have classes at that Point?

I feel like PvP is much less rigid and depends more on how you build and you are not limited by your class, there is some very good nightblade healers in high MMR bgs on PC EU for example, I dont think they would agree that nightblade is a very weak healer.
Eximzy was also trolltanking on a nightblade so cant be too bad at just absorbing Damage .

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Whew, so much... words. lol. (no offense)

The devs respond to players on the forum demanding nerfs.When you add to that number, that garners more dev attention.

It does NOT have to be an improvement in balance to warrant a nerf. Just an opinion made popular.

Now, if you view skills in a vacuum you will ruin balance. Not fix it. Hence this conversation and the point that still hasnt landed for you.

Youre saying thats how it works and Im telling you that doesnt work. It results in AoE skills rivaling single target damage. Tanky builds having glass canon burst. etc.

The only way to strive for balance to consider all that it effects. If you want a class thats a low level tank, healer, aoe/group class to be brought in line on single target. Fine. But you cannot create balance unless its also buffed to also rival other classes in tankining, healing, etc.

Youre justifying nerfing single target alone just so other classes can have a similar number on a target dummy. Yet theres no parse to test, AoE, healing, tanking, etc.

I agree that it does not Need to be an actual improvement, sadly something being perceived as too strong already can lead to nerfs or changes.

Whenever did I view something in a vacuum? Viewing SA or relentless loosing their buffs/debuffs in a vacuum would make this a heavy nerf in all aspects of the game, but if you actually look at other changes and the game itself the Change will not matter in endgame pve and in pvp you got compensated with minor vulnerability in Exchange for berserk and can get fracture from other class abilites (mark target is free to cast) or weapon abilities or sets so if you view the changes in context of everything else they actually Arent as bad as People like you are making them out to be.
Nightblade is getting buffs in tankyness and mobility, the funny Thing is that next to no nightblade even acknowledges These changes existance so you are getting buffed in other Areas but simply refuse to see it. Many good PvPers that I know agree that heavy armor stamblade next patch is gonna be much stronger than before but nearly all nightblades are acting as if the positive changes dont exist.
That seems like a skewed perception of balance if you ask me, only Looking at the negatives and not even noticing or acknowledging that positives are there is no way to help contribute to a more balanced game but again thats just me.

Also for me one of the big Problems balancing in this game has is that pve and pvp are not sepparated, as a result you have to manage two very different gamemodes with very different challenges that are not even close to needing the same stuff which Always leads to Problems and Always starts the pve vs pvp Forum wars.

There will Always be some Degree of Imbalance and there will Always be a meta, this might just be an attempt to shift it, if we continue Talking PvE then there is only 3 roles for 5 soon to be 6 classes, someone will not be the best at something now it might simply be nightblades turn at the "not the best at anything in PvE spot" if you want to call it that. Other classes have been there and not everyone Plays all 3 roles, my mains for example are magplar dps and magdk dps, until murkmire I simply could not Play either without Feeling like gimping my Group because nightblade was just so much better, my magdk is now a tank so yeah there will Always be not so cool spots for Setups thats simply how it is, it sucks but it will likely not Change.

The only way diversity in PvE will be achieved is by forcing it through unique passives, buffs, debuffs or similar or making every class the exact same only with different visuals and animations, personally the latter is not the balance I want since why even have classes at that Point?

I feel like PvP is much less rigid and depends more on how you build and you are not limited by your class, there is some very good nightblade healers in high MMR bgs on PC EU for example, I dont think they would agree that nightblade is a very weak healer.
Eximzy was also trolltanking on a nightblade so cant be too bad at just absorbing Damage .

Mike Tyson in his prime could use a butter knife to win a fight. But that wouldnt mean the butter knife is a great weapon. Its best to base it on the class and not the individual.

Obviously players could succeed in all content with other classes as dps. But that wasnt enough, so nbs got nerfed. Therefore we cant use, oh nbs can still be successful with these nerfs, as an excuse now. Balance must be strived for.

Some people enjoy heavy armor, some bleed, some gank, some healer builds.
If we nerf all but throw a bone to one build (i.e. heavy armor) we cant say, its a buff.

Losing major defile/stun for a cc breakable effect, major fracture on SA for mark, Minor beserk, forcing a gap closer, etc. is all a nerf. (Not to forget range or bar slots)

To believe that occasionally having 15% damage reduction and fear outweighs all that is not true.

Using your quote we can summarize the reality:

"someone will not be the best at something now it might simply be nightblades turn at the "not the best at anything in PvE spot" if you want to call it that."

This was the goal for some. (pvp+pve) Perhaps its best to recognize that and move on.