Maintenance for the week of March 16:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 16
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 16
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
War Maidens vs BSW (probably old news. Just want some clarity).
KingJeffery
Soul Shriven
So, I was crunching some numbers.
BSW downtime potentially ~00:00:20/ 00:01:00. That is ~40 seconds of buff. Given the proc is activated consistently AND there are not mistakes in rotation (i.e. flame damage lapse).
War Maidens is permanent 400 spell damage. In my mind, it is hard to compete with stability. It affects ALL magic damage; therefore, elemental blockade, etc.
I'm not going to entertain "skill" conversation. Spamming flame damage spells is not noteworthy.
What I am looking for is this:
With consistent flame damage, does BSW out perform War Maidens, given the small gap in spell power and down time?
Thanks for your time
BSW downtime potentially ~00:00:20/ 00:01:00. That is ~40 seconds of buff. Given the proc is activated consistently AND there are not mistakes in rotation (i.e. flame damage lapse).
War Maidens is permanent 400 spell damage. In my mind, it is hard to compete with stability. It affects ALL magic damage; therefore, elemental blockade, etc.
I'm not going to entertain "skill" conversation. Spamming flame damage spells is not noteworthy.
What I am looking for is this:
With consistent flame damage, does BSW out perform War Maidens, given the small gap in spell power and down time?
Thanks for your time
0
-
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Consider that ~20%, sometimes as high as 25% of magicka spec's parse actually comes from light attacks, which aren't magic damage. ^^5 -
KingJefferySoul ShrivenThanks for the reply,
I do not see any mechanics effecting LA from either set. Can you elaborate?0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You are mistaken on what War Maiden actually affects. It does not give flat spell damage increase. It only works on skills that deal generic non-elemental magic damage. So it doesn't work for any flame/shock/ice skill like WoE and staff light/heavy attacks
BSW on the other hand gives true spell damage and works for all magicka skills. It outperforms War Maiden unless more than 70-80% of your damage is non-elemental magic damage which pretty much never happens.
20 -
raaphor✭✭✭BSW with max uptime is equal to 350 average SD where War Maiden is 400 SD to magic damage abilities only.EU/PC - 9 max level characters (DC)
NA/PC - 2 characters (AD)0 -
KingJefferySoul ShrivenThanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically as above, yes. If tooltip of something reads "deals X magic damage" - then and only then War Maiden will buff it. BSW will buff everything that scales off spell power, even healing.Edited by John_Falstaff on May 14, 2019 10:23AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
what wiki?0 -
KingJefferySoul ShrivenLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
what wiki?
ESO wiki.
The tooltip also says magic damage0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
what wiki?
ESO wiki.
The tooltip also says magic damage
Equip a staff and look again.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
what wiki?
ESO wiki.
The tooltip also says magic damage
"eso wiki" is not very specific, an actual link would be loads better, as there are a ton of wikis for eso but regardless don't use whatever site you are trying to tell me about for anything, use http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page for all your needs, it get updated much more regularly.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
My guess you are talking about the fextralife wiki? It is not accurate and haven't been up to date for several years. As mentioned before, uesp, eso-sets.com and eso-skillbook.com are a lot more reliable sources.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Basically as above, yes. If tooltip of something reads "deals X magic damage" - then and only then War Maiden will buff it. BSW will buff everything that scales off spell power, even healing.
Actually, you forgot wall of elements. I would say it is more of a 30% if not consistent 35% of the damage , cause light attacks are around 20-25%~(more to the 25 if you ask me) and wall is another 10%~ minimum. So ye, i would say 35%. Third of your damage. Lets include enchants that are nit buffed by sets anyway and we are sitting on a solid 1/3 of the damage.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@zvavi , yup, OP mentioned in the starting post that Blockade is magic damage, and I somehow ran with it, it jumped out of my head that it's actually elemental depending on what kind of staff is slotted. ^^Edited by John_Falstaff on May 14, 2019 12:12PM0 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On top of BSW's spell damage, it also has a separate burning proc which deals a lot of damage.
The only effective use I see for war maiden is for some niche build, probably some PvP thing.EU PC1 -
KingJefferySoul Shrivenhttps://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Elemental+Blockade was the wiki I was referring to:
Updated: 12 Feb 2019 01:47
You should reflect on your bias.
Via the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Wall_of_Elements
Magic Damage: Flame Damage • Frost Damage • Shock Damage
I'm unsure as to why the tooltip would say magic damage and then not be "magic damage" based on the staff.... Its effect is pretty clear. I am not misunderstanding the diction here. It is clearly stated as magic damage.
I understand LA damage in conjunction with skills. What I do not understand is the relevance of it in this post. Is there some hidden mechanic with BSW and War Maidens and the SD that I am missing?
Edit: I understand this now. the spell damage buffs the staff damage in addition to other types of damage, correct? Therefore, the BSW SD increase is actually a universal damage/healing increase as opposed to the specific damage type. What youre saying is that the overall increase is significant and the static 400 SD is not applicable overall. Thank you- this makes a difference in perspective.
Its a matter of why is BSW gospel? (Answered)
The argument for the burning damage cannot be made either (an additional effect from the five set bonus from BSW) as many abilities and fire enchants give this effect.
Edited by KingJeffery on May 14, 2019 12:47PM0 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Magic Damage: Flame Damage • Frost Damage • Shock Damage
I'm unsure as to why the tooltip would say magic damage and then not be "magic damage" based on the staff.... Its effect is pretty clear. I am not misunderstanding the diction here. It is clearly stated as magic damage.
Yes, tooltips may be confusing. Destruction staff abilities do Elemental damage, derived from staff type: Flame, Frost or Shock. There's a fourth type of Magicka-based damage: generic, non-elemental Magic damage (some class abilities, soul magic or undaunted skills). This generic Magic damage is what War Maiden buffs.
Compare War Maiden to Netch's Touch. If War Maiden buffed all Magicka-based damage, including Shock et al., it would always be strictly superior to Netch's Touch. That doesn't sound plausible.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws1 -
KingJefferySoul ShrivenI understand why BSW is better, now. Thank you for posting everyone! Also, for the help.0
-
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just to clarify, BSW is far better but for a reason that hasn’t been said.
The flame wall of element’s damage gets increased against burning targets. This is why BSW is so strong in pve. It has nothing to do with the stat comparison of the two sets, it’s all about the burning effect. It’s also why a flame enchant on your front bar is required for pve and always use a fire back bar.
BSW is strong because of flame wall of elements and the burning effect.Edited by Iskiab on May 14, 2019 1:00PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭.You should reflect on your bias.
I mean, not really, when you play the game and equip a staff, that word "magic" in the description becomes flame, lightning, or frost. Not my fault that you didn't understand that. And this fact is even explained in the page from usep you Linked, see here-. Wall of Elements creates a path of elemental damage that will affect all enemies within its range. That damage will be either Fire Damage, Frost Damage, or Shock Damage depending on the type of staff you have equipped.
FetLife is a junk website and I wish the guy maintaining it would just take it down.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on May 14, 2019 2:12PM0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: ».You should reflect on your bias.
I mean, not really, when you play the game and equip a staff, that word "magic" in the description becomes flame, lightning, or frost. Not my fault that you didn't understand that. And this fact is even explained in the page from usep you Linked, see here-. Wall of Elements creates a path of elemental damage that will affect all enemies within its range. That damage will be either Fire Damage, Frost Damage, or Shock Damage depending on the type of staff you have equipped.
FetLife is a junk website and I wish the guy maintaining it would just take it down.
Just a friendly reminder that he means FextraLife, probably best people don't search for FetLifevMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: ».You should reflect on your bias.
I mean, not really, when you play the game and equip a staff, that word "magic" in the description becomes flame, lightning, or frost. Not my fault that you didn't understand that. And this fact is even explained in the page from usep you Linked, see here-. Wall of Elements creates a path of elemental damage that will affect all enemies within its range. That damage will be either Fire Damage, Frost Damage, or Shock Damage depending on the type of staff you have equipped.
FetLife is a junk website and I wish the guy maintaining it would just take it down.
Just a friendly reminder that he means FextraLife, probably best people don't search for FetLife
Or do I?3 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭KingJeffery wrote: »So, I was crunching some numbers.
BSW downtime potentially ~00:00:20/ 00:01:00. That is ~40 seconds of buff. Given the proc is activated consistently AND there are not mistakes in rotation (i.e. flame damage lapse).
War Maidens is permanent 400 spell damage. In my mind, it is hard to compete with stability. It affects ALL magic damage; therefore, elemental blockade, etc.
I'm not going to entertain "skill" conversation. Spamming flame damage spells is not noteworthy.
What I am looking for is this:
With consistent flame damage, does BSW out perform War Maidens, given the small gap in spell power and down time?
Thanks for your time
War Maiden only affects Magic Damage, so no Elemental Damage. If you are using Shock, Fire, or Frost, War Maiden will not affect it. So at that, BSW would be the better choice.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭You are mistaken on what War Maiden actually affects. It does not give flat spell damage increase. It only works on skills that deal generic non-elemental magic damage. So it doesn't work for any flame/shock/ice skill like WoE and staff light/heavy attacks
BSW on the other hand gives true spell damage and works for all magicka skills. It outperforms War Maiden unless more than 70-80% of your damage is non-elemental magic damage which pretty much never happens.
Was gonna say this myself. Many don't understand the difference between "Magic Damage" and Elemental damage (fire, shock, ice). The abilities USE Magicka but do not do "Magicka" damage. Have to look closely at what they do plus War Maiden is for class abilities, not staff abilities since the staves do no magicka damage.
Edited by Trinity_Is_My_Name on May 14, 2019 2:59PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KingJeffery wrote: »Thanks Royaji, that's what I was looking for!
However, the wiki states:
Equipment Sets That Affect Wall of Elements
•War Maiden Set does affect this Skill
My guess you are talking about the fextralife wiki? It is not accurate and haven't been up to date for several years. As mentioned before, uesp, eso-sets.com and eso-skillbook.com are a lot more reliable sources.
some of those tooltips do have dual dmg. Force pulse for example, will grant mag dmg if cast on a target with burning/chilled/concussed and that portion of the dmg is buffed by war maiden.
But we already know the ZOS fails at adding consistency and even worse can't communicate the lack of consistency, so I'm not surprised. Took them 5 years to remove the excessive percentage tooltip off blazing shield size and jabs/sweeps single target mechanic lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Probably also worth noting that Restoration Staff Light attacks are all Magic Damage, and therefore buffed by War Maiden.Edited by kypranb14_ESO on May 15, 2019 3:37PM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »Probably also worth noting that Staff Light attacks are all Magic Damage, and therefore buffed by War Maiden.
which is only true for healing staff....destruction staff does fire/lightning/frost damage....Edited by Destruent on May 14, 2019 9:02PMNoobplar3 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »Probably also worth noting that Staff Light attacks are all Magic Damage, and therefore buffed by War Maiden.
That's plain wrong. As the comment after you have mentioned0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭War Maiden is only useful on classes that predominantly deal magic damage. For instance, a magwarden stacking animal companion skills on front bar will be a force to be reckoned with in War Maiden (assuming we’re talking about PVP, where players frequently dodge light attacks). For classes/builds dealing a lot of flame damage, BSW is the clear winner for PVP or PVE.
Read your tool tips carefully before purchasing sets, folks. As has been discussed here, destro skills inherit flame, frost, or lightning damage depending on the staff equipped and are not considered “magic” damage.Edited by Aurielle on May 15, 2019 12:48PM0 -
Muzzick✭✭✭✭I find war maiden combined with julianos nice on magplar if you're spamming sweeps (without LA weaving).1