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Silver Bolts Should Only pull Vampires (Enemy Players)
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.
Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.
Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.
This statement does not seem to be correct.
1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.
Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.
So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.
When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.
Yes I was inherently wrong on a couple of those statements, but from a pvp perspective they remain true.
You are literally saying your statements were wrong but that they are still true in PvP. This is a ludicrous statement.
As for the rest.zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.
Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.
Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.
This statement does not seem to be correct.
1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.
Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.
So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.
When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.
The cost is the same without cost reduction, but in reality there’s no cost reduction for any dragon knight skill so the fact remains as silver bolts cost less to use. The second point of snares, the 40% snare is a lot more effective in terms of controlling your target from running away from you. Even though dk passive has a 15% snare it’s as effective as world in ruin passive giving a 6% damage increase to aoe abilities. The only skills that get a buff is flames of oblivion, standard, and engulfing flames. But don’t forget how hard is to land the conal aoe engulfing flames. Major expedition is wasted on this skill. Lastly, didn’t mean to say that increased spell damage, I meant the 3% weapon damage you get by slotting it.
You are still making false statements.
1. There is cost reduction available for both skills. Heck, light and medium armor moth provide cost reduction to magicka and stam skills respectively. There are other sources of cost reduction as well including some class passives.
As for the rest:
3. Your opinion on the snare is just that, only an opinion unless you can explain, with correct information, otherwise. Considering there is snare immunity and the ability to cleans snares some might think the major momentum is helpful since that cannot be taken away.
3. LoL. 3% weapon damage is also not 3% increase in damage. So on this you are trying to split hairs. At least you to acknowledge the correct information.
EDIT: After all your incorrect information you are only upset about the snare. So if Zos altered the snare to be more like chains and give the caster a speed buff you would be find with this. Based on what you have said.Edited by idk on May 12, 2019 10:55PM1 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Lmao what about werewolves?
Op ww, so, obviously only vamps get pulled.2 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Lmao what about werewolves?
Don't use Silver Leash on Werewolves. Werewolves like Silver Leash. They win the halitosis duel every time.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Word of the Day: Halitosis; meaning: bad breath
Anyway, silver leash is fine imo1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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pretty obvious: to pull in adds and trash in dungeons.zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.
Unrelenting Grip:
Launch a fiery chain to grasp and pull an enemy to you, dealing 414 Flame Damage.
Also grants you Major Expedition, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.
If the target cannot be pulled, you restore 100% of the ability's cost as Magicka.
This attack cannot be dodged or reflected.
If the target cannot be pulled, you are refunded the Magicka cost.
Silver Leash: Fire a Dawnguard Vampire Hunter's crossbow bolt to strike the enemy for 660 Physical Damage and reduce their Movement Speed by 40% for 6 seconds.
Decrease the range. Pulls the enemy to you.
Shorter range as in 22 against 28, uses stamina who might be more valuable in hard fights, no refund if fails.
The speed buff is pretty pointless on an tank while the movement speed debuf makes adds stay longer in the AoE on the other hand.
And changed my mind, pointless nerf requests should not cost 100 CP, they should cost 200.
This would significantly reduce the queue and lag in Vivec, they can always add another <50 campaign
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭zParallaxz wrote: »I fought several different stambuilds both in open world and in duels against mainly stamplars. As a magdk who isn’t a vampire, why can I pulled by a skill that does significant damage as a projectile, has a 28 m range, and is non reflectable. Besides blocking it has no counter.
Edit 1: What if it only pull enemy “players” who are vampires, similar to the ambush change where it only cc’s npc and snares enemy players.
Its not vampire only skill. Just do more dmg to vampires/ww
Its like to say - why i died from silver bullet when i`m not a vampire
Whatever....0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I miss when Silver Bolts would knock players down that were Vampires/WW in conjunction with pulling them towards you on a 2nd application for even more damage. I also loved pulling them from the grates on top of keep and having them plunge to their death as a result.
Having said that, I'm enjoying Silver Leash on my NB Tank and would rather NOT give up the ability to pull all those annoying Archers and Mages in PvE content that just like to hide a thousand miles away from my group's AoEs.Argonian forever2 -
russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, it should do bonus damage to player vampires and stun them for longer.
It should do regular damage and whatever to regular players.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭russelmmendoza wrote: »No, it should do bonus damage to player vampires and stun them for longer.
It should do regular damage and whatever to regular players.
Thats what skilled tracker passive is for.
Skilled Tracker: Your Fighters Guild abilities deal an additional 20% damage to Undead, Daedra and Werewolves3 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭Silver Bolt is fine, learn to predict your opponent's next ability while not making yourself so predictable to other players.
And how does one learn to predict there opponents next ability? In the same way as learning to predict the next movement in the Stock Market? Is that serious advice to the discussion as to why Silver Bolt is too overloaded? Learn to use Tarot Cards to predict each of your opponents in the opposing zerg's next ability?
Silver Bolt is one of deadliest skills in PVP hands down period to a wide a number of build types. As a Magden for example, you have no movement, no streak, no cloak, and no real ability to maintain distance, a single Silver Leash and you are toast.1 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.
Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.
Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.
This statement does not seem to be correct.
1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.
Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.
So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.
When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.
The cost is the same without cost reduction, but in reality there’s no cost reduction for any dragon knight skill so the fact remains as silver bolts cost less to use.
Perhaps, but that seems to be a thing with Stamina skills in general. With any typical Stamina build compared to any typical Magicka build, you will find that Stamina builds will always use abilities that cost less than Magicka builds' abilities. That was probably designed this way to balance resource costs when taking into account Stamina costs in dodging, blocking, and bashing.
Ultimately, resource efficiency between Magicka and Stamina builds is roughly balanced. Silver Leash costing less than a DK's Fiery Grip isn't so much a perk specific to Leash as it is the general way of things with Magicka vs Stamina costs.zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.
Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.
Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.
This statement does not seem to be correct.
1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.
Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.
So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.
When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.
The second point of snares, the 40% snare is a lot more effective in terms of controlling your target from running away from you. Even though dk passive has a 15% snare it’s as effective as world in ruin passive giving a 6% damage increase to aoe abilities.
The DK passive is a 30% snare. It's only 15% at Rank 1. 40% vs. 30% + Major Momentum; the latter is actually stronger if you're trying to stick to a target.zParallaxz wrote: »I want to thank OP and the others who have complained about Silver Leash for bringing it to my attention. It is my favorite new PvP skill. Without the complaint threads, I would never have thought to try it. I've made a few converts; they thank you as well.
Some observations:
1) Silver Leash won't fire roughly 50% of the time due to player immunities.
2) Good players dodge fairly often
3) The range is tiny compared to other ranged skills and is not buffed by Assault passives. It barely reaches through a keep entry tunnel, so I have to expose myself to the horde on the other side to use it. That's fair.
4) Pesky sorcs just Streak right over you if you if you happen to snag one. Use with caution against stick-wielders.
5) Only afk DKs fall for this one.
6) It's great for pulling ball groups apart.
7) The easiest fish to catch are bowblades. They always seemed shocked to be yanked from the safety of the back of the zerg to the front, where they suddenly have to fight.
8) It's nice to buff your front bar weapon damage with the Fighters Guild passive, especially if you slot Dawnbreaker. But it's not much of a buff.
9) It's not as cheap as OP implies. Avoid spamming.
10) It's great against bunny-hoppers and those hyper-speed builds. Why chase or range when you can yank 'em close enough to smell your halitosis?
Silver Leash is much like fishing. Sometimes you catch one; sometimes you don't.
I don’t HATE it, I just dislike it. If it didn’t have the snare on top of the skill I wouldnt give two f*cks. But what I’m dumbfounded by is that it’s a projectile yet it can’t be reflected. It could be absorbed by shimmering shield yet will gladly go through wings.
I'd love for pulling projectiles to be reflectable. The very idea of watching some poor guy use Fiery Grip/Silver Leash in an attempt to pull an enemy out of their group only to have it reflected back at them and have their own skill pull themselves into the middle of that group of enemies instead gives me the giggles.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »PVE exists as well...
Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.
Tanks who aren’t DK.
DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.
I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.
Tough luck. PvE is THE major component of the game, so I'd suggest considering the game as a whole before complaining about a piece of it. Otherwise, your "suggestion" will (quite rightly) be ignored.3
