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Silver Bolts Should Only pull Vampires (Enemy Players)

zParallaxz
zParallaxz
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I fought several different stambuilds both in open world and in duels against mainly stamplars. As a magdk who isn’t a vampire, why can I pulled by a skill that does significant damage as a projectile, has a 28 m range, and is non reflectable. Besides blocking it has no counter.
Edit 1: What if it only pull enemy “players” who are vampires, similar to the ambush change where it only cc’s npc and snares enemy players.
Edited by zParallaxz on May 12, 2019 7:56PM
  • mobicera
    mobicera
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    PVE exists as well...
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Silver bolts is more irritating than draining shot
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.
  • StormeReigns
    StormeReigns
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    I fought several different stambuilds both in open world and in duels against mainly stamplars. As a magdk who isn’t a vampire, why can I pulled by a skill that does significant damage as a projectile, has a 28 m range, and is non reflectable. Besides blocking it has no counter.

    Chains should only Pull NPCs
  • idk
    idk
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    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.

    Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.
  • max_only
    max_only
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    idk wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.

    Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.

    Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.
  • StormeReigns
    StormeReigns
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    Silver Bolt is fine, learn to predict your opponent's next ability while not making yourself so predictable to other players.
    Edited by StormeReigns on May 12, 2019 6:33PM
  • max_only
    max_only
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    You want a change that affects everyone know full well that they will never have a skill act differently in pvp than it does in pve.

    Please stop.

    giphy.gif
    Edited by max_only on May 12, 2019 6:37PM
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Get over here!
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • Vandril
    Vandril
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    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    You want a change that affects everyone know full well that they will never have a skill act differently in pvp than it does in pve.

    Please stop.

    They already do. Nightblade's Teleport Strike is a good example. It stuns the target unless the target is a player, in which case it snares them instead.

    I don't agree that Silver Leash - Silver Bolt's only pulling morph with a 22 meter range - is overloaded, though. It's practically the same as DK's Fiery Grip, with some pros and cons either way.
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    You want a change that affects everyone know full well that they will never have a skill act differently in pvp than it does in pve.

    Please stop.

    giphy.gif

    Cough, cough, the Rez mechanic from support skill line was usable in pve yet Zos made it only work in pvp. As you were saying ?
  • susmitds
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    Chains is undodgeable, unblockable. Silver Leash is dodgeable, blockable. There you go.
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    I very strongly believe that silver bolts is fine as is. Having a pull accessible to everyone is an important tool for PvP. If anything, DK chains should get a buff to make their class pull have more identity. But I see no reason to take away such a cool and useful skill for the rest of the PvP population. It's good in zergs, it's good against zergs, it's great for pulling scrubs off their meatbags, it's just good clean fun all around.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • max_only
    max_only
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    You want a change that affects everyone know full well that they will never have a skill act differently in pvp than it does in pve.

    Please stop.

    giphy.gif

    Cough, cough, the Rez mechanic from support skill line was usable in pve yet Zos made it only work in pvp. As you were saying ?

    Thanks for proving my point. It only works in pvp. It’s not a skill that acts one way in pvp and a different way in pve.
    As I was saying, stop.
    Edited by max_only on May 12, 2019 6:55PM
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • idk
    idk
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    Considering most of the game is PvE and Zos needs to considering both PvE and PvP it is irrelevant if you could care less about PvE. Zos is required to.
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Vandril wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    You want a change that affects everyone know full well that they will never have a skill act differently in pvp than it does in pve.

    Please stop.

    They already do. Nightblade's Teleport Strike is a good example. It stuns the target unless the target is a player, in which case it snares them instead.

    I don't agree that Silver Leash - Silver Bolt's only pulling morph with a 22 meter range - is overloaded, though. It's practically the same as DK's Fiery Grip, with some pros and cons either way.

    I concede that one point to you Vandril but not OP. They have proven and confirmed that they don’t know what they’re talking about.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • AlienatedGoat
    AlienatedGoat
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    And yet chains is still the better choice in PvE.
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    Yes, it does exist. But for what reason would a pve person need silver bolts to effect any and everyone including non vampires. The skill itself is overloaded especially with the snare it adds and how it syncs with the fighter guild passives. But it now effectively works as a gap closer, free weapon damage increase, hard hitting, and stun. The skill already out performs chains which had several reworks and is still trash.

    Tanks who aren’t DK.
    DK tanks who use their limited magicka pool for group buffs.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop.

    I’m not talking about a pve perspective, nor do I care about pve. I never enjoyed fighting a static system of adds that people just look on YouTube to find the mechanics for.

    PvP is a niche mode of play in ESO. There is no reason for skills, gear, or anything else that is build-critical in PvE to be downgraped for the sake of PvP. You've got it backwards.
    PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    It's needed very much in PvE.
  • idk
    idk
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.

    Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.

    Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.

    This statement does not seem to be correct.

    1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
    2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
    3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
    4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.

    Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.

    So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.

    When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.

    Edit: Just read that even your OP has incorrect information. Range as others have pointed out.
    Edited by idk on May 12, 2019 8:04PM
  • tizodd
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    I hope no one at ZOS takes this thread seriously. PvE is always suffering because of PvP whining. I really wish MMO's would make different abilities for PvE and PvP, so they can be balanced separately.
  • ChunkyCat
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    Silver Leash does not have a 28 meter range.

    >,>
  • zParallaxz
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    Silver Leash does not have a 28 meter range.

    >,>

    Was going off the website my bad
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    Since many pve players don’t like the idea of it only pulling vamps, would you be okay with a nerf to damage or removal of the snare? Speaking strictly pvp, I think everyone can agree more people use silver bolts compared to people using chains. I theorize what makes silver bolts more appealing than chains is the snare. If you were to chain someone, their first reaction would be to roll dodge this making them immobilize immune to the upcoming talons. Compared to silver bolts, the person pulled will attempt to roll dodge but still will be in range of the attacker due to the snare.
  • therift
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    I want to thank OP and the others who have complained about Silver Leash for bringing it to my attention. It is my favorite new PvP skill. Without the complaint threads, I would never have thought to try it. I've made a few converts; they thank you as well.


    Some observations:

    1) Silver Leash won't fire roughly 50% of the time due to player immunities.

    2) Good players dodge fairly often

    3) The range is tiny compared to other ranged skills and is not buffed by Assault passives. It barely reaches through a keep entry tunnel, so I have to expose myself to the horde on the other side to use it. That's fair.

    4) Pesky sorcs just Streak right over you if you if you happen to snag one. Use with caution against stick-wielders.

    5) Only afk DKs fall for this one.

    6) It's great for pulling ball groups apart.

    7) The easiest fish to catch are bowblades. They always seemed shocked to be yanked from the safety of the back of the zerg to the front, where they suddenly have to fight.

    8) It's nice to buff your front bar weapon damage with the Fighters Guild passive, especially if you slot Dawnbreaker. But it's not much of a buff.

    9) It's not as cheap as OP implies. Avoid spamming.

    10) It's great against bunny-hoppers and those hyper-speed builds. Why chase or range when you can yank 'em close enough to smell your halitosis?

    Silver Leash is much like fishing. Sometimes you catch one; sometimes you don't.

    Edited by therift on May 12, 2019 7:58PM
  • Dojohoda
    Dojohoda
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    Regarding the PVP/PVE balance pain point:
    "If a player" could possibly be added to many skills to help offset undesired PVE nerfs to skills that are also used in PVP. An example is the Teleport strike in nightblade skill line - "If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned."

    On the topic of this thread, I have no input; I'm not familiar with the skill.
    Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
    Might be joking in comments.
    -->(((Cyrodiil)))<--
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    idk wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.

    Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.

    Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.

    This statement does not seem to be correct.

    1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
    2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
    3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
    4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.

    Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.

    So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.

    When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.

    Yes I was inherently wrong on a couple of those statements, but from a pvp perspective they remain true. The cost is the same without cost reduction, but in reality there’s no cost reduction for any dragon knight skill so the fact remains as silver bolts cost less to use. The second point of snares, the 40% snare is a lot more effective in terms of controlling your target from running away from you. Even though dk passive has a 15% snare it’s as effective as world in ruin passive giving a 6% damage increase to aoe abilities. The only skills that get a buff is flames of oblivion, standard, and engulfing flames. But don’t forget how hard is to land the conal aoe engulfing flames. Major expedition is wasted on this skill. Lastly, didn’t mean to say that increased spell damage, I meant the 3% weapon damage you get by slotting it.
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    therift wrote: »
    I want to thank OP and the others who have complained about Silver Leash for bringing it to my attention. It is my favorite new PvP skill. Without the complaint threads, I would never have thought to try it. I've made a few converts; they thank you as well.


    Some observations:

    1) Silver Leash won't fire roughly 50% of the time due to player immunities.

    2) Good players dodge fairly often

    3) The range is tiny compared to other ranged skills and is not buffed by Assault passives. It barely reaches through a keep entry tunnel, so I have to expose myself to the horde on the other side to use it. That's fair.

    4) Pesky sorcs just Streak right over you if you if you happen to snag one. Use with caution against stick-wielders.

    5) Only afk DKs fall for this one.

    6) It's great for pulling ball groups apart.

    7) The easiest fish to catch are bowblades. They always seemed shocked to be yanked from the safety of the back of the zerg to the front, where they suddenly have to fight.

    8) It's nice to buff your front bar weapon damage with the Fighters Guild passive, especially if you slot Dawnbreaker. But it's not much of a buff.

    9) It's not as cheap as OP implies. Avoid spamming.

    10) It's great against bunny-hoppers and those hyper-speed builds. Why chase or range when you can yank 'em close enough to smell your halitosis?

    Silver Leash is much like fishing. Sometimes you catch one; sometimes you don't.

    I don’t HATE it, I just dislike it. If it didn’t have the snare on top of the skill I wouldnt give two f*cks. But what I’m dumbfounded by is that it’s a projectile yet it can’t be reflected. It could be absorbed by shimmering shield yet will gladly go through wings.
    Edited by zParallaxz on May 12, 2019 8:10PM
  • therift
    therift
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    zParallaxz wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    mobicera wrote: »
    PVE exists as well...

    This, Zos might not have said it this way, but they made it so silver bolts has a 100% chance to pull targets that are not immune (or the pull does not bug out) because of the advantage DK tanks have with tanking.

    Case in point, MoL Twins. Typically a competitive group will have the tank pulls the dark adds in rather than require a DPS DK be in the group and have their DPS drop as a result. Of course there are other instances the pull helps the tanking role.

    Okay, well mark this as instance where Pve benefits from a lore breaking skill. However, pvp will still suffer from a skill that is overtuned in terms of synergy and damage so much that it over shadows chains. Chains doesn’t hit as hard as silver bolts, doesn’t give weapon or spell damage for slotting, doesn’t produce a 40% snare, and finally the cost is substantially higher for chains even thought it offers half the utility.

    This statement does not seem to be correct.

    1. Costs for both skills are identical when cost reduction is not taken into account.
    2. Yes, leash applies a snare, but chains provide major momentum and reduces movement speed of target by 15%, both of which you conveniently left out.
    3. Yes, base damage of leash is a little higher, that much you are correct on.
    4. leash does increase weapon damage due to the Slayer passive but that does not increase spell damage. The tooltip is very accurate on that. However, slotting chains increases flame AoE damage by 6% but that is probably a little less useful.

    Further, chains cannot be avoided with dodge roll (tooltip). My guess is leash can be since it is not noted otherwise. Hopefully someone who has tested it can verify.

    So in the end, the only thing you are truly accurate on is leash damage is a little higher. There rest was either completely incorrect (skill cost) or left out very meaningful information.

    When comparing skills it must be done correctly. It helps to double check the information first. Granted, I have made similar mistakes before. After all, idk.

    Yes I was inherently wrong on a couple of those statements, but from a pvp perspective they remain true. The cost is the same without cost reduction, but in reality there’s no cost reduction for any dragon knight skill so the fact remains as silver bolts cost less to use. The second point of snares, the 40% snare is a lot more effective in terms of controlling your target from running away from you. Even though dk passive has a 15% snare it’s as effective as world in ruin passive giving a 6% damage increase to aoe abilities. The only skills that get a buff is flames of oblivion, standard, and engulfing flames. But don’t forget how hard is to land the conal aoe engulfing flames. Major expedition is wasted on this skill. Lastly, didn’t mean to say that increased spell damage, I meant the 3% weapon damage you get by slotting it.

    I understand where you're coming from on the snare. I've been running the skill for a couple of weeks on a stamden and a stamplar, and it doesn't appear that Silver Leash snare is that much of an impediment. There are many, many, many snares in Cyrodiil; I think the opponents I snag are so accustomed to dealing with snares that they just deal with Silver Leash snare lime any other.

    To be honest, I wasn't aware of the snare until you mentioned it.
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