IzzyStardust wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love crown crates. I wish people would mind their own business.

People only complain about this because they’re salty/jealous.

It’s ok for you to decide what you do, but I don’t like people trying to decide what I do.

You love spending your money on the chance to get something you want instead of just spending your money on the thing you want?

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

Mind. Your. Own. Business.

Who are you to tell me what the hell I want?!

I like most the things I’ve received from crates and I like having gems to spend as I see fit.

I earn my money and I choose what I do with it - and not that it’s any of your business - but I don’t buy them to get a mount or whatever. Mount is lucky. Not a given. I’m the one in this conversation who can manage her expectations.

You’re the one trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

Maybe you need to worry about your own house, before you consider taking on mine.

Gaming has gone down a very scummy, manipulative path with these casino-like tactics. As a gamer, that's my business and I'm well within my rights to call them out for doing it. Who are you to tell me I can't be concerned about the degradation of a pursuit I love?

srfrogg23 wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love crown crates. I wish people would mind their own business.

People only complain about this because they’re salty/jealous.

It’s ok for you to decide what you do, but I don’t like people trying to decide what I do.

You love spending your money on the chance to get something you want instead of just spending your money on the thing you want?

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

I might have an addiction ( so what ), and reading all these post about Crown Crates just triggered mine ( thanks a lot ). Now have to go buy some Crown Crates to support ZOS.

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love crown crates. I wish people would mind their own business.

And I love some itmes in the crates, despise many others, and would gladly purchase what I want rather than gamble for it.

I once wanted to get the wild hunt horse, and I had never purchased any crate before. I wasn't tight on cash at this time, so I thought "what the heck" and started opening crates. Purchased by lots of 15 at first.

Took me 49 crates to get the horse. That horse cost me as much as two upgrades to Morrowind (which was on preorder at that time). And mind you, I didn't get the horse as loot, I just had enough gems to buy it after 49 crates.

So, while you might love your crates, I can certainly see why this kind of things is considered unhealthy.

Darkstorne wrote: »

The gem system would probably skirt any issues that arise with loot box integration in most games. If ZOS have to change anything at all, it would only be making radiant apex mounts purchasable with gems. And to be honest, that would solve my biggest issue with them. They'll still be insanely poor value for money, but at least you could then put a fairly known price on everything they contain, including radiant apex.

Yeah I think they would have to do that maybe. But yeah given we can buy all that content without the gamble just have to get so many gems from opening up the boxes I think they would be able to bypass the law with this one. Potions and things are junk that can also be got in the game too through other means. But if they had to get rid of all play to win and those qualified. Well I think they might just add more cosmetics pets, and mounts to the crowncrates.

Riejael wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

The legislation that has been proposed in the US related to games that are available to minors (children), so it would not impact ESO which is explicitly not for kids.

The legislation specifically states those games that are 'wildly available'. This includes games on Steam, Consoles, and anything available for the general public off of a company website.

When it says games not made for children, they are talking about Video Game machines in Casinos, Cruise Ships, or other gambling areas where minors are prohibited. As well as those in pornographic shops, bars, and clubs. And we can agree that ESO will not become exclusive to those avenues.

Remember the ESRB rating is an industry thing. Its not a government entity, in fact no government in the US (Federal, State, Local, or UCMJ) may prohibit the sale of video games to minors under free speech protections (by SCOTUS decision). So simply slapping on a 18+ rating isn't enough here. It would have to be physically harder for children to be able to obtain or purchase the game.

Just like rated r movies, parents can allow their kids to watch those movies. Say Like Terminator predator, Nightmare on Elmstreet. Just examples. Depends on the age and maturity and some kids can be mature enough to watch those things. It won't tramtatize them and personal issues sometimes people can use these things and are inspired to act out the violence from the infuence but I'm afraid that real life news media and extensive coverage of recent horrific acts that have been happening lately has been do to the news media over covering it has caused more harm and done what people accuse violent video games/movies of doing . Moving back to topic. The smart thing is to regulate them instead of just banning them as some parents will allow their child to buy these lootboxes or the children can easily bypass any restrictions they have on them. The best solution is the best most desired drops or legendary mounts or whatever have a much higher chance. For example under these regulations no gaming company with lootboxes can make a chance drop rate at say 1 percent or .1 percent. Which I'm sure Cryptic/perfect world is doing. Forcing these companies to not only reveal chances but also have a minimum for the chance rate of getting the jackpot item. Which in this case would be 30 to 45 percent is the best solution. Companies would still make money just not as much as they did. It might even get companies to release a lot more lootbox content in general too. To keep players opening up the boxes. It might even get more players willing to open up the boxes. They can make money but they shouldn't be allowed to exploit players out of thousands of dollars. At best opening up a lockbox should be able to get the top rewards at say 35 to 45 percent.

Point is parents have much of a say in a childs life. But then I think most modern parents know all about videogames microtransactions in this newer generation older generations not so much. Yes there are times kids can get ahold of mommys creditcard and figure out how to use it. That is why parents have to be warned to be more vigilant.

Genomic wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love crown crates. I wish people would mind their own business.

People only complain about this because they’re salty/jealous.

It’s ok for you to decide what you do, but I don’t like people trying to decide what I do.

You love spending your money on the chance to get something you want instead of just spending your money on the thing you want?

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

Mind. Your. Own. Business.

Who are you to tell me what the hell I want?!

I like most the things I’ve received from crates and I like having gems to spend as I see fit.

I earn my money and I choose what I do with it - and not that it’s any of your business - but I don’t buy them to get a mount or whatever. Mount is lucky. Not a given. I’m the one in this conversation who can manage her expectations.

You’re the one trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

Maybe you need to worry about your own house, before you consider taking on mine.

Gaming has gone down a very scummy, manipulative path with these casino-like tactics. As a gamer, that's my business and I'm well within my rights to call them out for doing it. Who are you to tell me I can't be concerned about the degradation of a pursuit I love?

I didn’t tell you you cannot do ***, do what you want - just leave everyone else alone.

They aren’t casino like at all because you always get something. In which casino do you always win something back.

I think we’ve a society of people who cannot and will not take responsibility for themselves. Well when you cede control of every aspect of your life to someone else - you are left powerless.

I prefer to make my own choices than to have people who overreact to things and make drama where there isn’t any making my choices for me.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Point is parents have much of a say in a childs life.

I hate to bring this up in an argument, so I'm going to say this is just opinion, but I've read the Senator's stance. And I get the feeling that between the lines, he wants to regulate out Pay to Win mechanics. More so than 'helping children'. And the whole protect children from gambling thing is just to get support from both parties. Its politics at play.

But its reading between the lines, so I'm going to freely admit its just an opinion of mine and not using it as a counterpoint. All I ask is for everyone else to read the site with the Senator's stance and come to their own opinion.

Personally I hate sticky politics like that. But at the same time I'm curious to see where this goes and how companies react if this goes to the House and becomes a bill and then is ultimately passed.

But to respond to your point directly, I would agree that parents should have the final control over what they spend on video games. But its a position I'm not necessarily going to fight to keep in this situation if that makes sense.

IzzyStardust wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love crown crates. I wish people would mind their own business.

People only complain about this because they’re salty/jealous.

It’s ok for you to decide what you do, but I don’t like people trying to decide what I do.

You love spending your money on the chance to get something you want instead of just spending your money on the thing you want?

The first step is admitting you have a problem...

Mind. Your. Own. Business.

Who are you to tell me what the hell I want?!

I like most the things I’ve received from crates and I like having gems to spend as I see fit.

I earn my money and I choose what I do with it - and not that it’s any of your business - but I don’t buy them to get a mount or whatever. Mount is lucky. Not a given. I’m the one in this conversation who can manage her expectations.

You’re the one trying to tell other people how to live their lives.

Maybe you need to worry about your own house, before you consider taking on mine.

I don't care how you spend your money. I don't want to gamble away my money when I know full well that they could just as easily put that stuff in the cash shop for a fair price.

Maybe you should spend less time supporting predatory anti-consumer practices and spend more time thinking about how these things affect more people than just you.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Neoicelord wrote: »

Loot boxes might be banned (in the US) so what do you think Zeni will do if they have to pull their loot crates?

Its proposed being adult only item and ESO is already M for mature. They might have to tighten their parental controls, but that's about it.

Don't kid yourself. It's proposed as regulation on games children play. Much like the term "assault weapon", it will be used as a bludgeon rather than a scalpel. ESO will be hit by it. Even if by some miracle ZoS only has to implement some harsher form of parental control, legislation such as this has a very long track record of expanding in ways it's supporters and sometimes even it's creators never intended nor wanted.

Ok, crate hates, will you feel better if they price those apex mounts 15,000-20,000 crowns, and 40,000-50,000 for radiant?

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Ok, crate hates, will you feel better if they price those apex mounts 15,000-20,000 crowns, and 40,000-50,000 for radiant?

Yes. As absurd as those prices may be, they are at least honest.

At this point the best we can do is speculate.
Honestly it’s larger than crates it’s anything that falls under the definition they decide on.

Logically it should touch on dlc, crown store, chapters, subs AND crates. Considering the crates don’t reward as much of an advantage and largely prey on those who are ok with chance...we will just have to wait and see.

I think if legislation were to pass in regards to loot crates it would be more along the lines of treating them as gambling. ZOS would have to promote them as gambling, provide warnings about gambling addiction and include contact information for help with gambling addiction, provide drop percentages of items in loot boxes, and maybe some other stuff too.

With the whole Pacrooti thing, no matter how you spin it, it is set up to resemble casino style gambling and should be regulated as such.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Ok, crate hates, will you feel better if they price those apex mounts 15,000-20,000 crowns, and 40,000-50,000 for radiant?

Yes. As absurd as those prices may be, they are at least honest.

Ok, and now do some math and you will realize that at least in the case of apex mounts that's approximate price of 400 gems if you are new to the crate season. But in addition to gems you'll get a ton of extra stuff.

I never buy crates for the purpose of getting apex drop. I know the average gem return, so I calculate how many crates I need so to get desired item for gems (except radiant stuff). If I get needed item in this process -- awesome, more gems saved.

I think you're operating under the assumption that "this is the way it has to be". Like vendor sales strategies are a force of nature and not subject to change once they materialize.

You threw out some ridiculous numbers specifically to try and justify this particular strategy. No matter how absurd the prices are, they will always be better than taking advantage of people's gambling addictions. It is honest and avoids obfuscation, allowing people to make informed decisions about whether or not they find the price to be worth the product.

In the end, you're defending misdirection. "You can either take the boat, or you could take the mystery box!"

"The mystery box could contain anything, it could even be a boat! We should take the mystery box!"

But, it's just a couple of tickets to a crappy local concert... you could have had a boat. Oh, well.

They would never sell apexes cheap for many reasons. My numbers are quite accurate in terms how much you should pay so to have 100% to get them.
So in your example you would have a boat and I would get a boat plus all extra items for approximately the same price xD