Can we Talk Necro for a second?

Tessitura · May 2019

For real, its the new class coming out in a handful of weeks, and its getting little to no work done on it. It's still bugged, and magicka is still in kind of a bad spot... Yet, all I see is topics about NB. Anyone else find this kind of disturbing, or at the very least a bad sign? One of my biggest issues on the pvp front is how magicka Necro seems to be built for kiting and area denial but can't really do either of these things, no real escape option, and a very unreliable burst combo with the janky skeleton pathing out right ability to kill it, me second biggest issue is the bug with one of the Grave Lord passives, that sparks a GCD when it procs and interrupts casting and ults, Like Soul Assault. Probably wasn't a good idea to release a new class on the same patch you want to implement sweeping class changes for this reason.

idk · May 2019

Give Zos the feedback from your actual testing. As it is this thread is rather empty and pointless.

Tirps · May 2019

But anyways it's kinda funny how little attention it's getting on forums atm.

Tessitura · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Give Zos the feedback from your actual testing. As it is this thread is rather empty and pointless.

Some of us gave them feedback, and it got washed out by all the NB posts. Why dont you go call all the ZOS hate thread pointless, or all the many incap posts that say nothing but, the dude that made it should be fired?

Feanor · May 2019

The initial feedback from a lot of testers was that the damage that relies on the „pets“ is unreliable because of targeting and HP, that the passives the class has are quite good, and that the ultimates are too strong. ZOS has nerfed the resurrection ultimate by increasing the cost to 300.

I think it will need some time and real time play on the live server to see in which directions the class will be adjusted.

Xogath · May 2019

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

idk · May 2019

Tessitura wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Give Zos the feedback from your actual testing. As it is this thread is rather empty and pointless.

Some of us gave them feedback, and it got washed out by all the NB posts. Why dont you go call all the ZOS hate thread pointless, or all the many incap posts that say nothing but, the dude that made it should be fired?

LOL. I suggest you give details and this is all you can come up with. It was a suggestiong to give your thread something worth Zos' time to read in this thread vs just complaining. Instead it just sounds like one of those NB threads you are complaining about.

Tessitura · May 2019

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

That video was from back when the crit range was bugged and they crit about 90% of the time for a abnormally large multiplier, once they fixed that the numbered evened out more, and I probably should have specified pvp, so much of their damage is slow and relies on the enemy standing in aoe or on a skeleton not getting stuck on a rock. It's not a good time. Me and some friends have tested magicka and stam a lot these past few days and stam has a clear advantage in pvp. Its like a worse Magden because of corpse reliance and lack of reliable pressure. Thats just our experience so far, most other classes seem to be pretty solid in the PTS and run well.

Checkmath · May 2019

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

Current testing magicka necromancer is totally skewed, since there are many bugs with necro abilities and the target dummies. That video you showed is actually invalid, since it happened to a time point, where necroes actually critted with a 100% during their whole fights with all their pet abilities. Also those target dummies are still bugged, having wrong resistance numbers, stacking same buffs several times, which increases dps tremendiously. As much as I heard do magicka necromancers parse quite badly tough, comparable with magicka warden.
And in actual fights, their dps will drop even lower, since the shocking thether tends to land not under enemies rather away from them, so they do not even hit from time to time. Also the blastbones now have a longer time to reach their enemies and only in a scenario, where necros can stand right at the back of the enemy, their dps is comparable with parsing on dummies.

Vercingetorix · May 2019

Checkmath wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

Current testing magicka necromancer is totally skewed, since there are many bugs with necro abilities and the target dummies. That video you showed is actually invalid, since it happened to a time point, where necroes actually critted with a 100% during their whole fights with all their pet abilities. Also those target dummies are still bugged, having wrong resistance numbers, stacking same buffs several times, which increases dps tremendiously. As much as I heard do magicka necromancers parse quite badly tough, comparable with magicka warden.
And in actual fights, their dps will drop even lower, since the shocking thether tends to land not under enemies rather away from them, so they do not even hit from time to time. Also the blastbones now have a longer time to reach their enemies and only in a scenario, where necros can stand right at the back of the enemy, their dps is comparable with parsing on dummies.

Stop basing your information on inaccurate test dummies. They are not representative of real combat and thus do not give any benefit towards establishing DPS thresholds. At best, they are a target to practice rotation but a real fight involves mechanics that require you to move, heal, break free, block, and often times a mobile boss.

Your last paragraph is actually valuable information to ZoS. If more players presented realistic parses in REAL boss fights and video evidence of certain abilities not being viable in boss encounters, ZoS could make useful adjustments. As long as the community continues to base their conclusions on an unrealistic dummy parse for a class, ZoS will only tune things based a single number instead of the entire class' toolkit.

cpuScientist · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

Current testing magicka necromancer is totally skewed, since there are many bugs with necro abilities and the target dummies. That video you showed is actually invalid, since it happened to a time point, where necroes actually critted with a 100% during their whole fights with all their pet abilities. Also those target dummies are still bugged, having wrong resistance numbers, stacking same buffs several times, which increases dps tremendiously. As much as I heard do magicka necromancers parse quite badly tough, comparable with magicka warden.
And in actual fights, their dps will drop even lower, since the shocking thether tends to land not under enemies rather away from them, so they do not even hit from time to time. Also the blastbones now have a longer time to reach their enemies and only in a scenario, where necros can stand right at the back of the enemy, their dps is comparable with parsing on dummies.

Stop basing your information on inaccurate test dummies. They are not representative of real combat and thus do not give any benefit towards establishing DPS thresholds. At best, they are a target to practice rotation but a real fight involves mechanics that require you to move, heal, break free, block, and often times a mobile boss.

Your last paragraph is actually valuable information to ZoS. If more players presented realistic parses in REAL boss fights and video evidence of certain abilities not being viable in boss encounters, ZoS could make useful adjustments. As long as the community continues to base their conclusions on an unrealistic dummy parse for a class, ZoS will only tune things based a single number instead of the entire class' toolkit.

Dummies show the best the class can get. That is valuable information. If the classes don't stack up here then they need tweaking. Then sure go test them in trials dungeons. But those are varied and different. If we test in VaS and just look at dps, well dang melee sucks oh and Gary died on his sorc so his DPS was lower than Mathew on his magDen thus magDen DPS is highest please Nerf.

Dummy is important to see max and of course mixed in with more general data from the various varied combat scenarios in trials. Also it's very easy to see even on a dummy that this skill is only reliable if the boss stands still...

NupidStoob · May 2019

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

Current testing magicka necromancer is totally skewed, since there are many bugs with necro abilities and the target dummies. That video you showed is actually invalid, since it happened to a time point, where necroes actually critted with a 100% during their whole fights with all their pet abilities. Also those target dummies are still bugged, having wrong resistance numbers, stacking same buffs several times, which increases dps tremendiously. As much as I heard do magicka necromancers parse quite badly tough, comparable with magicka warden.
And in actual fights, their dps will drop even lower, since the shocking thether tends to land not under enemies rather away from them, so they do not even hit from time to time. Also the blastbones now have a longer time to reach their enemies and only in a scenario, where necros can stand right at the back of the enemy, their dps is comparable with parsing on dummies.

Stop basing your information on inaccurate test dummies. They are not representative of real combat and thus do not give any benefit towards establishing DPS thresholds. At best, they are a target to practice rotation but a real fight involves mechanics that require you to move, heal, break free, block, and often times a mobile boss.

Your last paragraph is actually valuable information to ZoS. If more players presented realistic parses in REAL boss fights and video evidence of certain abilities not being viable in boss encounters, ZoS could make useful adjustments. As long as the community continues to base their conclusions on an unrealistic dummy parse for a class, ZoS will only tune things based a single number instead of the entire class' toolkit.

Nothing about dummy parses is unrealistic. It's simply best possible scenario which you try to aim at in a raid environment. It gives you a good goal and enough boss fights in this game are basically dummy fights. The majority of the trial bosses are really just burn fights where you maybe sidestep something, roll dodge, bash or blockcast. Apart from that it's just keeping up your rotation and being in the right place. Actual mechanics DPS have to deal with are incredibly sparse.

Bolding your sentences doesn't actually make them true either.

kalunte · May 2019

necro proper tests will be done on live. there definatly isnt enough ppl on pts, nor common situations with a mix of random low-bies and unkillable ball groups (for pvp).

For pve, parses have been done and sent to ZOS (they must have a way to get the numbers even if you dont send them).

imo the pts will close around 4th june, but the patch phase will last until late july.

Irylia · May 2019

Was hoping for more with mag necro.
Had planned to make a Stam and mag but now I think I’m just doing Stam for group play.

The mag necro pales in a dueling environment, where I wanted to use it, it’s really just flame clench blast bones repeat.
Nice kill pressure. :thumbs up: Pretty avoidable ults
And a variety of useless skills.
The fear totem, tethers along with a few other things should really be reworked to solidify the class.

Lot of cool ideas but all over the board.

wheem_ESO · May 2019

Irylia wrote: »

Was hoping for more with mag necro.

You and me both. I think the damage is too unreliable, especially in "bad" terrain where the Blastbones can get confused and never actually land, even if it doesn't get snared or CC'd much.

That said, I think it should be relatively tanky (which is good, since mobility is non-existent), and I think it might have good potential as a healer with a few tweaks. Things like:
1) Allow Renewing Undeath's morph effect to function if a corpse is close enough to the caster, or to the target area, rather than only inside the radius. As it stands right now, it's usually too unreliable to hit teammates with the cleanse/HOT.

2) Have Restoring Tether put a HOT on any ally it touches, rather than requiring them to stand in the beam. I'm not entirely sure what the radius is on the Braided Tether morph, but using Mortal Coil is really just a self heal in PvP - there's no way it's going to heal teammates for more than an occasional tick every once in a while. I think a similar change should be made to Mystic Siphon, since it's essentially worthless in PvP (and even some situations in PvE).

3) If Reanimate can't be properly balanced for PvP, convert it to a healing ultimate of some sort. Perhaps it could summon several skeletal/spirit/zombie NPCs that would heal and/or buff nearby allies, so that there would still be a Necromancer theme to it. The recent cost increase won't stop zergs from being able to frequently rezz one another, but it put a big damper on using it offensively in smaller scale fights.

4) Allow the Bone Totem's Minor Protection to persist as a buff on players that move out of its area, even if for a shorter duration. As it stands right now, the Minor Protection is really only usable in some static PvE fights.

Raw healing power with Render Flesh is pretty good (keeping in mind the drawback of Minor Defile on the caster), but without some changes, there's not a ton of utility provided by a Magicka Necromancer healer.

ecru · May 2019

Xogath wrote: »

How are Magicka Necromancers in a bad spot?

I know it's a couple weeks old, so changes have been made, but.. have you seen this? (Mag Necro 116k parse)

116k is a massive step ahead of everything else on the PTS, even Stamina Necromancers. The only parse I've seen come close to that was still 16k below it (Stamina Necro), and everything below that was WELL below it to the tune of 15-20k.

I wouldn't exactly call that a bad spot.

Bugs aside ('cause those do need fixed), I'd say Magicka Necros are just fine unless they've seen severe nerfs since that video, and I'm not sure they have.

They have seen severe nerfs since that video, which would be pretty easy to verify if you had actually been on PTS. Mag Necro isn't in a great spot right now not just due to bugs, but due to how unreliable blastbones is as a source of dps when not standing directly in melee, and how unreliable mystic siphon is since it both isn't hitting bosses in sunspire (which probably means it isn't hitting bosses in other trials/dungeons too), and you don't have a lot of control over where it comes from/who it hits.

Notice how no one is posting parses after pets stopped critting 100% of the time? I'd probably place Mag Necro behind all other magicka DPS at the moment, probably a good 10% behind petsorc, and a decent parse requires an absolute perfect rotation. DPS is just really, really mediocre until you hit execute, which puts it in a weird spot where you need bloodthirsty jewelry to hit good numbers during execute, but this also hurts your dps before execute, so without a good execute parse with bloodthirsty jewelry, your parses are going to be very bad.

I'm not really sure what's going on with zos as we've seen very little feedback on their end about actual numbers or abilities we rely on not even hitting bosses, but don't expect to see everyone and their dog rerolling mag necro because it pulls big numbers--it doesn't. If you want top numbers right now, you're playing a magsorc this patch and during Elseweyr, unless something changes in the next few weeks.