Researching should be instantaneous

Tukker · April 2014

there are plenty of other mmos if you want instant gratification, I am happy this one seems a bit different. Research should take time.

AbraCadabra · April 2014

easy_lee wrote: »

/snip
But this is a major flaw, one which will drive away casual players who don't have time to log in every single day.

It's even better for casual players because they don't have to log on every day for research by the time they get to item #4 and up, since those take several days to research.

AbraCadabra · April 2014

Iluvrien wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

I haven't noticed but does researching work while offline as well? Or only game time?

Offline as well. Hence there is little enticement to stay on while researching traits.

Other than exploring, questing, pvping, gathering, rp'ing, crafting ....

Jeremy · April 2014

If you had to stay online I would agree with you on this. But since research continues while you are offline, I don't understand what the big deal is.

Nox_Aeterna · April 2014

Well , i dont mind it much , yes , it takes time , but if you actually level the profession and put some skill point in it , you can research multiple stuff at the same time.

Atm im from 1/3 days each , not that bad when i can do 2 and soon 3 at a time.

PS: Do yourself a favor and get addons to help btw.

I have one that shows how much time each of my ongoing researches are still going to take and one that shows what i have and what i have not learned already , which makes getting rid of items a LOT faster.

PS2: sorry had to go out , anyway my ADDONs are:

Research Tracker and Research Assistant.

I thank everyone that made these , they really make my time playing much better.

Iluvrien · April 2014

Ok, well, as people still seem to be debating this one I might as well answer all of the posts that have quoted mine during my absence from this thread.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

At best Crafting bots will augment your materials...they definitely will not replace them. Advancement is only going to come from actively refining and deconstructing or whatever. Research only applies to traits. If you rely on hirlings for tempers (for example) you will be waiting for a loooonnng time.

True enough. But if, as my initial outline of this scenario outlined, a group was “funding” or acting as benefactors for a single crafting character (as I have seen in other threads, albeit usually about enchanting) why on earth wouldn’t they pass their deconstructable materials over too? To not do so in this situation makes very little logical sense.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Partly because people do not seem to get how miner Researching really is. Researching will not actually advance any of your skills. All it does is open up traits for you to use.

See above. If you have benefactors supplying you with raw mats and deconstructables then researching for traits is all the crafting character needs to do.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

You will still need to actually play the game to advance these skills to a point where the researched traits will matter. It is like saying you don't need to bake a cake because you can easily buy the frosting in a can. The frosting doesn't do you a lot of good without the cake.

Not really. It’s like saying that because it is easy for you to buy frosting in a can, everyone will be more than happy to give the cakes they find to you so you can learn how to decorate them to a really high standard.

JeffKnight wrote: »

No it doesn't, since those alts who don't know all the traits won't possibly be able to make the gear with the best set bonuses. Do not forget that you are required to know anywhere from 3-8 traits to craft a set bonus item, and there are 3 and 5 item bonuses.
<SNIP>
That is why there is a research time.

This is the best reason that I have seen given, as yet, as to why research times, in their current form, will help to ensure the prosperity of dedicated crafters. Of course, this only applies to set bonus items and so I still fear for the more conventional items and the supply of them.

AbraCadabra wrote: »

Other than exploring, questing, pvping, gathering, rp'ing, crafting ....

…all of which are activities that you might be interested in delaying if, by waiting, you could attempt them with a significant improvement to your gear. That is one of the points that has already been alluded to, if not explicitly stated, in other places in this thread.

Just to make things clear, I am a dedicated crafter. Roughly 50-60% of the skill points that I have assigned have gone into the crafting professions. I am enjoying crafting a great deal (with the possible exception of Enchanting) and intend to continue doing so. My queries about the research mechanic are not based on it taking a long time or even the loss of bag/vault space holding onto items that are in the queue to be researched. The reason I question this mechanic is that ZOS seems to believe that this and the bag space requirements constitute all they need to do to ensure that crafted items retain their value by requiring significant investment of time and energy. I, personally, do not believe that these are enough since both can be mostly circumvented by a few people working together.

Thanks to Nox_Aeterna for the addon suggestions though. I will definitely look into those!

Eris · April 2014

You know, one thing that I do is try and research the traits that I want or expect to use first (where possible based on availability) and then other traits. It gives me fairly quick access to the traits I want and other stuff can wait. I find that 6 hours isn't that big of a wait, since I can start before I go to bed and it will be done by the time I wake up. The others, well they can research when I get to them because I already have what I expect to use for myself.

Since this is all stuff that happens in the background, why should I care how long it takes... unless of course I only intended to be here a short time and I wanted to be lord uber craftsman before I left. Since I plan to be here at least 7 months, I got time.

Ummaguma · April 2014

Researching is good as is... carry on.

Nordak · April 2014

The Idea is that a dedicated crafter will get the research traits and do 3 at a time, crafting really shouldn't be for everyone, many play styles. If everyone were able to rush through and be able to craft the best set off the bat, what would be the point of focusing on crafting?

Devilfish85 · April 2014

I didn't read the entire thread, because I sincerely doubt anything said so far will change my opinions on what the OP has said.

Completely disagree. Time investment not only forces players to prioritize how they spend their research time, but it prevents anyone from becoming a master of their craft instantly just because they have enough gold to throw at material costs and a guide they googled up about the most efficient path to take. Work for your success.

SadisticSavior · April 2014

Iluvrien wrote: »

True enough. But if, as my initial outline of this scenario outlined, a group was “funding” or acting as benefactors for a single crafting character (as I have seen in other threads, albeit usually about enchanting) why on earth wouldn’t they pass their deconstructable materials over too? To not do so in this situation makes very little logical sense.

That is basically a type of twinking, and not only will it happen, it is actively being encourage by ESO themselves according to interviews. They want people cooperating like this in guilds.

Soloing it is another thing though. You will NOT be able to do this with Hirelings...I have several myself and can tell you this from personal experience. Hirelings are useful for getting you occasional "good" stuff and a lot of random crap you don't care about.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Not really. It’s like saying that because it is easy for you to buy frosting in a can, everyone will be more than happy to give the cakes they find to you so you can learn how to decorate them to a really high standard.

"What" to a really high standard? They cannot leverage the trait if they cannot actually MAKE the product. And you cannot craft higher than Iron without investing skill points.

If you had every trait researched it would be useless to a high level player who wants high level items...all you could use the traits in are 1-14 level items...who the hell will pay you for those? Heh heh

You cannot add traits to finished items. The trait has to be embedded at construction. All you can do with finished items is enchant them or imrprove their quality. You cannot add traits to them.

So research has no impact at all in that regard. It does you no good unless you can actually make the items. And you cannot make the items without actually playing the game. You need skill points for that.

Catches_the_Sun · April 2014

I love the research system for crafting. It takes time and dedication I much prefer this to other games where I could become master crafter in 2 days and be just as good as the guy that has dedicated a year to his craft.