The times are not "an arbitrary amount". Each trait researched on a particular piece of gear doubles the time needed from the last on researched. So the first one is 6 hours, the second 12, the third 24, ect...
See this guide : Research Times
What an awful idea.RESEARCHING SHOULD BE INSTANTANEOUS
SadisticSavior wrote: »What an awful idea.RESEARCHING SHOULD BE INSTANTANEOUS
The point of research time is to force people to specialize. If it becomes easy to make anything, then no one is special anymore.
The playing field is level because research is in real-time. It does not matter if you are logged in. So both casual players and people without a life can advance at the same pace. This model worked really well in EVE.
SadisticSavior wrote: »
Actually, SadisticSavior probably just copypasted the title of your post into the quote, which was smart because it succinctly summarizes your position. The title is capitalized by the forum software.SadisticSavior wrote: »
Love how when you quoted me, you altered my text to be in all caps to try and make me sound ignorant. That's real mature.
Well, yes. Do you have evidence that they haven't? Long research times give meaning to the research. If you could instantly research everything, everyone could max out every crafting skill almost instantly, making crafted items worthless to resell, as it'd be easier to make your own.So what do long research times do for ESO? In EVE, a large part of the economy was designed with specialization in mind. Do you think the ESO devs have thought about all of the consequences of the system, and designed the game and economy with that in mind?
Yes.Do you think they've created a large enough crafting system to enable that sort of feature to work?
They added research times because it's necessary for the way they geared the economy. They added dodge rolls because they're in previous Elder Scrolls games. They added the compass because it's in previous Elder Scrolls games. They added quest markers because they're in previous Elder Scrolls games.Or do you think they added it because it was in EVE, the same way they added dodge rolls because Guild Wars 2 has them, the same way they added the compass because Skyrim has it, and the same way they added quest markers because WoW has them?
LOL...look at the title of this thread. It's in all caps. Thats what I copied.Love how when you quoted me, you altered my text to be in all caps to try and make me sound ignorant. That's real mature.
I disagree in this context. This is a trait that worked really well in another game.You don't make a good MMO by taking bits and pieces of other successful games and jigsawing them together.
GW is not really an MMO...it's a single player game with grouping options occasionally. Like Diablo. It is not comparable to this game IMO. There is very little in GW that is "massively multi-player".Take Guild Wars 2, for example. The entire game is based around pvp, frequent content updates, and making sure the endgame doesn't turn into a gear treadmill. Everything about the game, from statistically identical end game drops to fast-paced combat with a wide variety of builds, enhances that goal.
You just answered your own question.So what do long research times do for ESO? In EVE, a large part of the economy was designed with specialization in mind.
Yes.Do you think the ESO devs have thought about all of the consequences of the system, and designed the game and economy with that in mind?
Definitely. As with EVE, it will be extremely difficult to cover all specialties in all professions, even if you twink and grind 24/7 (and most players won't or can't). It is not just a matter of research but also materials. Certainly crafting the special items (like the special Armor sets) will be very hard to do. Especially if you are not a dedicated crafter...and that is how it should be.Do you think they've created a large enough crafting system to enable that sort of feature to work?
SadisticSavior wrote: »GW is not really an MMO...it's a single player game with grouping options occasionally. Like Diablo. It is not comparable to this game IMO. There is very little in GW that is "massively multi-player".Definitely. As with EVE, it will be extremely difficult to cover all specialties in all professions, even if you twink and grind 24/7 (and most players won't or can't). It is not just a matter of research but also materials. Certainly crafting the special items (like the special Armor sets) will be very hard to do. Especially if you are not a dedicated crafter...and that is how it should be.Do you think they've created a large enough crafting system to enable that sort of feature to work?
Boy are you in for a shock. Only the first value is arbritrary (they had to choose something). After that, the next research takes twice as long. It keeps doubling like this. Which, if you are familiar with elementary math, 6 > 12 > 24 > 48 > 96 > 192 > 384 > 768
That is a total of 1,530 hours to research 8 traits. 63.75 days. Of course, you need to do weapons and armor. You can see the time requirements are extraordinary, and this is a very, very good thing. It means two things. No one will have all possible traits unlocked for months, possibly years. Secondly, as a direct effect of this, you'll have to depend on more than one crafter for your particular needs. Specializing for traits. I think enchantment may end up working like this too in the higher levels.
I hope Zenimax won't listen to such threads and leave researching times as they are now. No need to make things easier, when they are fairly easy already
Where is the fun in that, I like the challenge of it.
Never had a reason to, because I prefer MMOs. If I wanted team deathmatch I'd just plat Mechwarrior Online or Team Fortress.To your first point, you obviously have never played guild wars 2 end game.
The two systems work together in different ways. Mat gathering gives you a reason to explore the world and interact with people, which you would not need to do if it was simply about research time. If it was Mat only, it would be open to twinking and farming abuse. So the two systems together cancel these problems.And your second point only reinforces my own. If it truly is difficult to gather enough materials in order to advance each profession, then the research system doesn't need the time system tacked onto it.
I agree. These systems serve a purpose beyond inconveniencing the player. This is not like GW or WoW...this game is about the journey at least as much as the destination. Thats a big part of it's appeal.Systems which serve only to inconvenience the player have no place in an MMO.
...and now it is bleeding players because people are sick of it. It's become a cliche. No one see's the point of having a character in that game that is not maxed out, because the "real" game is the end game. It's the Pokemon of MMOs.The reason WoW was so successful is because it did away with most of the inconvenient features of EverQuest.
It's exactly the opposite. This system is made for casual players more than anything else, because you don't have to be logged in to advance.As I've already said, the system that's in place only serves to force players to play a bit every day.
So what? MMOs have survived before on a small player base. Eve has been going forever (I was one of the beta testers).There's one more point I'd like to make, and this one's huge. In order for a game to grow, it needs new members.
If you are only realizing that after 6 months, then you deserve what you get.So let's say you're a new player joining six months or so down the line. You have all the makings of a top-tier player: lots of time to devote to the game, a healthy attitude, and you're a quick learner. You decide to take up crafting.
Then you realize the developers implemented time gates into the crafting system.
Why?Suddenly, there's absolutely no way for you to compete.
They were already months ahead of you anyway, unless you joined at launch. And the only way that would matter is if you were a dedicated crafter. And if you are a dedicated crafter, it would not have taken you 6 months to learn the system anyway.The other crafters are already months ahead of you
Yes. As fair as any other MMO. In every other MMO, the exact same criticism would apply. People will always have a head start on you if you join after launch.Does that sound fair to you?
Give me an example of a game where veterans do not have a huge head start on new players.Veterans should not have an untenable advantage that newbies can never overcome. It stifles growth of the entire game.
SadisticSavior wrote: »It's exactly the opposite. This system is made for casual players more than anything else, because you don't have to be logged in to advance.