Should pledge giver ask for dps test?

ATomiX96 · May 2019

Play with guildies and friends, avoid pugs unless you can solo-hardcarry, or just solo it right away if you dont want to waste your time looking for randoms.
Whenever I get a character to 50, most of the time I end up running the pledges on my own, if you got 2 thumbs and a slight bit of knowledge about the game you can easiliy solo almost every (some exceptions where mechanics require 2 or more people) nondlc dungeon on vethm and just run the dlc pledge on normal for 5 keys a day, easily doable with how much powercreep there is these days.

RebornV3x · May 2019

Any required dps test is going to turn players off a better thing to do is a 1 time repeatable advanced tutorial like a Role Certification quest ( which would be optional) once you get to lvl 45 and The Undaunted "teach you" on each role with various steps like how to weave light attacks, heal and ally for x amount of seconds etc maybe a good 1-2 minute video that outlines the basics of DPS, Tanking and Healing I'm pretty sure Alcast or another class rep could do this no problem.

idk · May 2019

worrallj wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No. The simple solution if you want to set standards like that is to form your own group. When using the GF you are asking for randomness in who you are paired with. Zos already set standards required for each dungeon. Most dungeons I can provide enough dps for the group to clear without issue even when I am the healer.

"Most dungeons"

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wasn’t in favor of this previously but that’s because I always ran as DPS lol. As a new healer I can see the pain a lot more clearly. The other day I did 50% of the damage and of course all the healing in my dungeon with just shards, WoE and heavy attacks lol. Luckily it was normal but still. It was also a 3 dps queue, the tank was fake. But for vet dungeons random queue I think a minimum of 20k would be good. With a basic rotation and some easy to get gear that’s not hard to get to at all. It would also push DPS to learn their class.

Funny, I used to queue solo to help groups out and helped many get their first clear of a dungeon. I queued as a healer because I could carry the group dps wise while still healing. Unless the group was really, really bad at taking as much damage as they could I would normally out dps the group.

Zos will not be implementing this, mostly because there is no justification for what OP suggests since few fights in the game require X amount of DPS. Zos gave us the ability to form our own group when we want requirements like this.

It really is that easy.

Everyone saying stuff like this is obviously talking about normal dungeons, or maybe base game vets. You actually need a functional group to do dlc vets. That's why it's not a bad idea to suggest something in game to divert people who just don't know any better away from those particular dungeon ques.

@worrallj

LOL, No. I am talking about vet dungeons. Their are few that have a timer on fights that cause wipes so there are no dps requirements set by the design. That should be obvious to anyone experienced with the fights making such a comment as the one bolded seem very inaccurate.

Even in DLC dungeons the pattern follows. Zos has made most fights about mechanics, paying attention, instead of a dps race.

And again, if players want to set DPS requirements they can. Just form their own group form guild. Zos set this up as a perfect solution for those who have "standards" of their own. It works great.

LeagueTroll · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wasn’t in favor of this previously but that’s because I always ran as DPS lol. As a new healer I can see the pain a lot more clearly. The other day I did 50% of the damage and of course all the healing in my dungeon with just shards, WoE and heavy attacks lol. Luckily it was normal but still. It was also a 3 dps queue, the tank was fake. But for vet dungeons random queue I think a minimum of 20k would be good. With a basic rotation and some easy to get gear that’s not hard to get to at all. It would also push DPS to learn their class.

Funny, I used to queue solo to help groups out and helped many get their first clear of a dungeon. I queued as a healer because I could carry the group dps wise while still healing. Unless the group was really, really bad at taking as much damage as they could I would normally out dps the group.

Zos will not be implementing this, mostly because there is no justification for what OP suggests since few fights in the game require X amount of DPS. Zos gave us the ability to form our own group when we want requirements like this.

It really is that easy.

no thx, as a tank main i deserve real dps or be paid like those folks sell carries.

idk · May 2019

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wasn’t in favor of this previously but that’s because I always ran as DPS lol. As a new healer I can see the pain a lot more clearly. The other day I did 50% of the damage and of course all the healing in my dungeon with just shards, WoE and heavy attacks lol. Luckily it was normal but still. It was also a 3 dps queue, the tank was fake. But for vet dungeons random queue I think a minimum of 20k would be good. With a basic rotation and some easy to get gear that’s not hard to get to at all. It would also push DPS to learn their class.

Funny, I used to queue solo to help groups out and helped many get their first clear of a dungeon. I queued as a healer because I could carry the group dps wise while still healing. Unless the group was really, really bad at taking as much damage as they could I would normally out dps the group.

Zos will not be implementing this, mostly because there is no justification for what OP suggests since few fights in the game require X amount of DPS. Zos gave us the ability to form our own group when we want requirements like this.

It really is that easy.

no thx, as a tank main i deserve real dps or be paid like those folks sell carries.

@LeagueTroll

I agree. Yes you do. And you can get the dps you want you can form your own group. m It is so easy and a solution already available to you. Many competent players do this every single day. It is so amazingly simple.

Dragonnord · May 2019

And if they pass the dps test, the NPC then asks for mechanics test, then survival test, then you need to submit you gear so NPC can check if it's BiS, and so, right?

p00tx · May 2019

[honest and spot on commentary deleted by moderator]

To OP: I'm not a fan of this idea for base game dungeons, since normals are so easy they require almost no dps to clear and are there as a learning tool for newer players who need lots of repetition in there to get used to game mechanics. I wouldn't want new players to be excluded from them based solely on a dps requirement, especially given that there is no clear teaching tool for them to use in-game in order to improve their dps. If such a tool existed (and I strongly believe it should), then it might be worth it to revisit this discussion. Even vet base games are pretty brain dead easy for the majority of players, so a dps requirements is really not needed there. It would also exclude our RP community who generally does not care about things like dps (they usually have the lowest in terms of raw numbers, bless them) and only wants to experience the "story" associated with each dungeon.

I know you are only referring to the dungeon finder tool, and are probably hoping to be able to do content without getting bogged down by yet another 5k dps warrior who won't stop overpulling. We'd all like that. However, it bears repeating that the df tool is for everyone in the game, and if you do choose to use it rather than pre-forming your own group, you do so at your own peril. It's sort of like buying those silly Crown crates. You know you're probably not going to get anything good out of them when you choose to buy them, but no one is forcing you to do it, and you have no one but yourself to blame for your disappointment when it doesn't work out well. I do see the merit in this idea for vet DLC content however. If someone with low dps is queueing for this content, they are either delusional or looking for a flat-out carry, which is just rude.

The only thing that is going to fix this is if Zos institutes an in-game tutorial that actually explains how damage is done in the context of this specific game. We'll still have stubborn holdouts who will insist their heavy attack spam with a sword and shield rotation is sufficient for all content, but I think the larger population would take to it and benefit enormously from it and thrive. The end game community would become much larger as a result and the divide between top dps and average dps would be much smaller, which is a win-win for everyone. The goal here should be to find solutions that best benefit the whole community, not just a select few.

Edziu · May 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

and ok, I see you are hard defender of noobs in dungs so I see you are probably on of them wanting get free carry through dungs, sorry but probably I dont have anything more to say with you and with your arguments as you probqabl have never played on higher level and you are not that much exp to be able to grind dlc dungs for which even more its annyoing when you ar getting lower than 500cp dd doing full 10k dps!!

No. I'm max. CP, fully geared, ran most of the vet trials and can pull my 35k dps, thanks very much. I just refuse to be an elitist jerk like you.

ok then but cant you read with understanding if even full post? maybe I just again badly described it or just havnt yet writing this in this thread....

after years of playing in this game I burned out of carrying noobs, yes I had no problem with them earlier but with time as I have no longer that much time for game + burned out of carrying others Imk bored of carrying dd's role doing less dps than support role

when I do 40k+ dps in *** enviorment it would be nice if 2nd dd would do this 20k-30k+ dps in vet content but most of which Im pissed here are just under 200cp players and even higher cp doing dps less thna support role - 10k or less which I have by jsut LA spam so please

I even cant understand how someone with higher cp cant do more than this 10k+ dps which is achieving just good healer supporting team while for average dd with good gear 10k dps is jsut by LA spam

so no, my opinion isnt from elitist site but from someone who jsut want to play properly with someone with mind which know how to play his own role

as I wrote...sorry but if DD is doing same or less dps than support role....then he is not doing his role prperly and should enter into veteran content as he jsut cant play his own role, he still need l2p instead then being ball on chain for rest of group in dung when someone have problem with kick him

and if you have done that much vet content then you should know good there is some even nondlc dungs where its good to have atleast not bad dps which's group dps is like run with x4 support role

WolfingHour · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

And yet people doing pug dungeons and or pledges, complains that their dps guy is hitting like a wet noodle in a vet dungeon, now if a dps is doing less than 10k in a pledge and cant finish said pledge, youll kick them out, or carry them to the unending boss fight.

Seems like those people, that can't deal with the random nature of LFG, need to stop doing PUGs and start queueing as a pre-made.

clocknane1981b14_ESO · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Those 3 undaunted guys giving pledges should ask for you to do a dps test before giving you the actual pledge. They would only give you pledge if you reach their desired dps parse.

So what would the test be for tank and healer?

No, this is exactly why I left other games, including Wow. The elitism behind things kinds of requests ruins games. This was not a requirement before and people managed therefore should not be a requirement now. I have found that just about all people I have grouped with, except for a very very few limited number typically are pretty good at carrying their weight. Keep that kind of thought process out of ESO. It is the last MMORPG with a good/decent non-elitist community from my perspective and it should stay that way.

HowlKimchi · May 2019

It's actually pretty ESO to join in-game guilds or discords even to always get good people to pledge with in your timezone. It's infinitely better/funner than a dps test because you actually interact with the people you'll play with a lot, and you eventually become friens. In an online game. WHUUUUT.

Grandma · May 2019

the game isn't an exam. it's supposed to have hard content. if a dps can't clear it then they have to leave with their tail between their legs and learn what they could do better. If they're faced with an impossible task- parsing 20k+ without ever having seen a parse dummy before, then they most likely would try it once and then quit when they didn't get the results they wanted.

Yes, horrible dps are in abundance and definitely a problem in dungeons, I had to carry a 6k dps stamsorc through vwgt hm once because he only used snipe. But i'd rather have more people playing the game and learning than being dismissed or dismayed because they don't have knowledge they couldn't have known about yet.

thorwyn · May 2019

so no, my opinion isnt from elitist site but from someone who jsut want to play properly with someone with mind which know how to play his own role

This might well be, but then the group finder is NOT the right tool for you, because you can NOT expect to find people who meet your high standards. It is random, you will find weaker players, you will have to trust your luck, OR form your own premade group. Denying people from even entering what the game allows them to is just wrong.

ManwithBeard9 · May 2019

@russelmmendoza If you're quitting and deleting characters when Elsweyr drops, why do you care about the future of the game? Why would you even need to suggest this gate keeping idea?

Smile2342 · May 2019

A DPS check just sounds lame. Especially coupled with tanks / healers as just as an aside. In WOW they did have a SOLO trial for the role that you would like to join as before allowing the use of LFG on raids. At least that's the way I remember it. Not everyone found them to be easy and had to try hard to get better to pass the trial. It was a combination of everything and had mechanics so it's wasn't just a stand still DPS dummy check. Maybe something like that for Veteran group finder might be reasonable.

Rake · May 2019

there should be test, yes.
10k and below = normal dungeon only
10-20k =vet dungeon
20k+ = u can go HM if u wish

D0PAMINE · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Just to lessen the casualty and the grief that comes with this pledge.
Specially new players, when they get an invitation to do a dungeon/pledge, they tend to do it in curiousity and get a dose of bad medicine.
Unless your a newtoon with cp810.
New players will really find this a huge challenge, or even a stumbling block, maybe even a dead end.

Players new to dungeons have to go through the same learning process we all went through. We were all new once.

Arunei · May 2019

What you're proposing would lock a good number of casual players out of a part of the game, just because you can't be arsed to make your own group and want to hold everyone to standards that a lot of players really can't reach. You mention how people come here complaining about the DPS they get in dungeons; you do realize that's because a lot of the low-DPS people aren't bad players, they're just people who play the game causally for fun for an hour or two per night, right? Not everyone treats this GAME like a second job that they need to grind and farm and push push push to do 'max deeps'. Not everyone treats this GAME as something they need to 'better' themselves at, because it's a GAME. People who sit here and declare "Well everyone should be able to hit 20k and if they can't they should work at getting better" really need to stop back and realize that no. No one is obligated to hit what YOU feel is an acceptable level of being good at the game.

If you want to set standards and have people conform to what those standards are, form a group from like-minded people. There are plenty of them judging from the number of posts that get made where people complain about others ruining a dungeon for them because of low DPS. Get your head out of your butt and realize there are people who truly play this game just to relax and have fun, not be there to be a damage bot for you because you want to be lazy and not bother with forming your own group.

Edziu wrote: »

I even cant understand how someone with higher cp cant do more than this 10k+ dps which is achieving just good healer supporting team while for average dd with good gear 10k dps is jsut by LA spam

Because CP isn't a measure of skill but rather how much time you've played the game? Seriously where do you people get the idea that CP means anything skill-wise? You literally get it just for gaining experience, and that can come from so many places that aren't combat-related it's silly. Discovering new locations, learning motifs, unlocking chests, completing quests, turning in crafting writs, doing scouting missions in Cyrodiil...even just doing overworld questing and killing trash mobs isn't really combat experience when it comes to things like dungeons.

So it's very easy for someone with high CP to not do more than 10k damage. It's called people who play the game for fun and don't care to farm farm farm grind grind grind and be there solely to run you through a dungeon in five minutes.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Why so many people are so concerned about dps tests for PUGs etc? If you are queuing on tank/healer you can always leave group if dps is too low at first boss, and if you queue on dps, if other (second) dps is bad, you may rock and carry and explain mechanics, so in the end all group will be in the very positive mood?
Fake tanks are an issue because they f**k up 30+ minutes waiting in queue for 2 deeps, but "fake dps" receive such negative feedback when group stuck at dps checks, so I doubt they will attempt same dungeon until they improve their build/rotation.

When I leave because of low group dps, I always write something like "Guys, nothing personal but your dps is too low for this dungeon. It's not your problem since game doesn't explain a heck how to produce those 30-40k required, try to check alcasthq.com for build/rotations"

Arunei · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

When I leave because of low group dps, I always write something like "Guys, nothing personal but your dps is too low for this dungeon. It's not your problem since game doesn't explain a heck how to produce those 30-40k required, try to check alcasthq.com for build/rotations"

Which dungeon requires 30-40k to clear? Even on vHM? I'm fairly certain being able to follow mechanics and know when/where to focus your damage is a lot more important. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything I'm actually curious because I'm pretty sure no dungeon actually needs that much DPS.

I also don't get why people always tell others to use build guides without adding 'use it as a baseline but edit things so it fits your play style'. Just because a certain set works for one person, even a beginner set, doesn't meant other players are going to be able to make use of it. Yes, pointing people towards people like Alcast who do provide beginner sets is a good idea, it gives people something to check out if they want to, but it should ALWAYS be followed with the advice to change things as needed and to use the builds listed as a guideline, not as a be-all end-all thing they have to follow to the 't'.

raaphor · May 2019

ATomiX96 wrote: »

if you got 2 thumbs and a slight bit of knowledge about the game you can easiliy if you are an end game player with more than average understanding of game mechanics and know the dungeons by heart you can probably solo almost every (some exceptions where mechanics require 2 or more people) nondlc dungeon on vethm and just run the dlc pledge on normal for 5 keys a day, easily doable with how much powercreep there is these days.

fixed this part for you

SirAndy · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

10 to 20 k dps your good for normal pledges.
20 to 30 k dps your good for veteran pledges.

Why does it have to be my good? Why can't it be your good?

Skwor · May 2019

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

@russelmmendoza If you're quitting and deleting characters when Elsweyr drops, why do you care about the future of the game? Why would you even need to suggest this gate keeping idea?

Becuase he is actually just a troll on this post.

Kalgert · May 2019

SirAndy wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

10 to 20 k dps your good for normal pledges.
20 to 30 k dps your good for veteran pledges.

Why does it have to be my good? Why can't it be your good?

Because these people don't actually care about other players and just care for themselves. Also the whole "Rule for thee not for me" thing applies to these narcissists

Tsar_Gekkou · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Why so many people are so concerned about dps tests for PUGs etc? If you are queuing on tank/healer you can always leave group if dps is too low at first boss, and if you queue on dps, if other (second) dps is bad, you may rock and carry and explain mechanics, so in the end all group will be in the very positive mood?
Fake tanks are an issue because they f**k up 30+ minutes waiting in queue for 2 deeps, but "fake dps" receive such negative feedback when group stuck at dps checks, so I doubt they will attempt same dungeon until they improve their build/rotation.

The main problem is time. We only have 24 hours in a day, and most of those are spent doing other things. When you queue into a dungeon, a 15 minute timer starts counting down until you can queue for another one. If you're a tank, you have a fast queue timer but still have to bend over for 15 minutes if you join a group and see one dps with a sword and board, and another spamming bow skills with an ice staff backbar. It's worse for dps because it can take over an hour to get into a specific dungeon, and even random normals sometimes(It's only gonna get worse with the influx of players that Elsweyr is gonna bring), so to then get into a group where they're pretty much the only person doing damage while the tank and other dps run around spamming heavy attacks with two-handers makes people hate the game. If there was no queue timer, people would be more apt to bail on failure groups and trolls, and people might actually have to practice or look up a guide since unpaid carries would be less common.

And fake dps/tank will definitely attempt the same dungeon over and over without trying to improve their build/rotation because they expect to be carried for free, especially since they don't get kicked as often as people like to think.

Facefister · May 2019

I've reached a point where I don't care anymore: When CMX tells me that I am 80%~90% single-target DPS there will be a votekick. Getting real tired about all these mind gymnastics. Stay on normal if you're a "casual".

SirAndy · May 2019

Facefister wrote: »

I've reached a point where I don't care anymore: When CMX tells me that I am 80%~90% single-target DPS there will be a votekick. Getting real tired about all these mind gymnastics. Stay on normal if you're a "casual".

If you are doing 90% of the damage in a vet dungeon, why not just carry your group?
I mean, you are already practically soloing the dungeon, so why does it bother you that you have spectators?

You should be proudly showing off your skills instead of giving yourself a hemorrhage while rage-kicking the "casuals" ...

PS: +1 awesome for picking a forum name that fits your personality!

Crafts_Many_Boxes · May 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

OP, the problem is that you are thinking of benchmark DPS.

Even if ZOS thought this was a good idea, they would probably go with baseline DPS and the check would be 3k for normal dungeons and 10k for vet.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

2) Some dungeons are vastly more difficult than others. A new player may get vFG1 and think they can do anything. I have been advocating a re-balancing of ALL dungeons to be in-line with each other for about a year now, but it's mostly fallen on deaf ears. I've heard rumors that they'll be taking another look at DLC dungeons, so we'll have to see.
(*snip*)

If you want to fix dungeons and PvE as a whole in this game, ZOS needs to

B ) Rebalance ALL dungeons to create a standard - you know, like every other MMO on the market

I disagree. The dungeons are scaled nicely from FG1 to CoA II and the DLCs so that a player can start with simple mechanics and move up the difficulty ladder. If you make all dungeons the same level of difficulty, then there will be no learning path. They'll either have to be ridiculously easy so new players can do them, which will discourage vets from running them, or they have to be challenging enough for vets, which means new players will never try them.

They are fine as they are. If people are not paying attention to the order in which they unlock as you level, maybe ZOS can make this clearer, but I think the difficulty scale is important to keep.

The problem here is that they're all thrown together in one pool, one queue. There's no such thing as PvE ELO, the game just throws you into whatever it feels like. What SHOULD be done is that all normals should be relatively easy to clear (for new / leveling players)), and all vets should be reasonably difficult, but not unpuggable. I reject the idea of ladders, give me 3 standard difficulties any day of the week (with the third being vet HM).

That is the gold standard any MMO should aim for. That way, endgame players aren't sacrificing pixelated goats to RNGesus for vFG1 instead of vSCP. Can you imagine an ESO where it doesn't actually matter which vet dungeon you get because they're all of comparable difficulty? That's the ESO I want to play.

SteampunkWerewolf · May 2019

Ok, but how can anyone ever get better if they can’t even get into a dungeon? What if I need to farm a certain one for armor I need to get a better build? Also, this game isn’t free, since dungeons are part of paid content then everyone who pays gets to do them.

Bouldercleave · May 2019

This discussion is the main reason that I don't have any desire to do group activities in this game.

You want me to take a DPS test to see if I'm "worthy" of playing along side you? *** that.

On my target dummy self buffed and running Hundings, briarheart, and Veildreth gear, I parse 32 k - 34 k on my character (MORE than enough to get by pretty much ANY content in the game), but will never have any higher level items if I have to prove to anyone that I belong in your elite presence.