Should pledge giver ask for dps test?

Protoavis73 · May 2019

Thank god there are no dps checks as we did lots of pledges and dungeons last week with our (new) low level chars to make advantage of those extra XP. And we did just fine. More then half of the normal dungeons is just staying out of the stupid and the rest of them is knowing the mechanics.
Now for vet it's a different story.

Casterial · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Those 3 undaunted guys giving pledges should ask for you to do a dps test before giving you the actual pledge. They would only give you pledge if you reach their desired dps parse.

So what would the test be for tank and healer?

WoW had a system where you had to be tested as a "Silver" or "Gold" DPS, tank, or healer to use LFG for certain modes.

Edziu · May 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

stuff

Grats!
You used the word "noob" six times in one reply. Still doesn't change the fact that:

a. "noobs" are entitled to queue for groups as long as they meet the level/CP requirements
b. you might not like that, but nobody cares what you like or do not like, let alone how brilliant you are or since when you are playing this game
c. if you want to avoid being hassled by "noobs", form your own group

lets be honest and name things normally, dont be silly and try to just walk around of truth

a. yes and this is reason why and here outside pvp or endgame is much of toxicity
b. I might not like that and nobody cares so nobody cares when I wat to kick this "noob" only because I myself dont want to struggle through single dung because of single "noob" in group
c. sorry but this dont work 24/7, not everyone play always when I play with who I know I could go do this content, many time Im forced to go with pugs when I want do pledge

the wors part all of it is when Im really forced to dman carry noob and even for this nobody is thankfully even when I dont say anything bad about them, when I just stay silent becaus I want to have done this dung, isntead mostly those noobs are similiar toxic like pvp as they know better their own 5k dps and they dont need anything to improve themsleves if they want to run vet content

and ok, I see you are hard defender of noobs in dungs so I see you are probably on of them wanting get free carry through dungs, sorry but probably I dont have anything more to say with you and with your arguments as you probqabl have never played on higher level and you are not that much exp to be able to grind dlc dungs for which even more its annyoing when you ar getting lower than 500cp dd doing full 10k dps!!

EDIT: well I gave you jsut answer to your question in my 1st post here to "Why are people so obsessed with dps?" and you just started point our just on me that and stupid me felt into your stupid "bait" for this nonsense conversation with you as I see, gg to you

AbysmalGhul · May 2019

DPS test before entering a dungeon...yeah no thanks!

Ei8htba11 · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Teach new players about weaving, dot, aoe and rotation to help them in their dps.

Isn't that what other players/guilds/friend lists is for? It's a community game.

As for the DPS check, you don't want to be seen as an elitist by setting certain rules for your group, you want ZOS to do it for you and absolve yourself of the responsibility?

I'm in a guild, sometimes we do learning dungeons and trials, group for pledges. Setting a DPS check might exclude members from the party based on their average damage. Something we'll be aware of and take into consideration, and ignore.

Sometimes it's the journey, not the destination, that is the most fun. I get what you're saying, I just don't agree.

gepe87 · May 2019

People just became too obssesed about dps. Back to that time when I started playing there was no such rising elitism on PvE.

witchdoctor · May 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

so sorry but as for VET dung you shouldng go with such low dps which can acheve even tank/healer role...

So sorry, but the game allows people to do that. Now what?

The game allows me to offer to buy something COD from you and then leave it in my mail for 30 days.

What the game 'allows' is a pretty poor excuse.

witchdoctor · May 2019

Expectations and PUGging is like expecting to find a diamond in the cistern pot.

Best to keep expectations neutral.

Maybe you'll get a diamond, maybe you won't; but you won't be disappointed.

Anotherone773 · May 2019

Absolutely not. Seriously, if elitists and meta players are so bothered about people doing the proper DPS, having rotations, and taking an exam before running content, make some friends and run with them and leave the group finder to us commoners who want no part of that ridiculous, fun sucking, job like gauntlet of pointless exams to play content made up by some elitist that thinks the game is an actual job.

snarkomatic · May 2019

Casterial wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Those 3 undaunted guys giving pledges should ask for you to do a dps test before giving you the actual pledge. They would only give you pledge if you reach their desired dps parse.

So what would the test be for tank and healer?

WoW had a system where you had to be tested as a "Silver" or "Gold" DPS, tank, or healer to use LFG for certain modes.

Yeah, and they abolished that system several expansions ago because of all the negative feedback.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · May 2019

Parrot1986 wrote: »

There shouldn’t be any test for any of them....

It’s content in a game not an exam. The pledge itself is the “test” I.e can you do it or not

This. If you demand minimum DPS, run a pre-made. That's what guilds are for.

You have no place to lock people out of content because they're not good enough to meet your perceived standards, OP.

MikaHR · May 2019

They should also measure your ping and decline everything > 100 ms.

Aulus_Claudius · May 2019

While I oppose the idea of a DPS parse to list for pledges, I would very much support a one-time-per-character DPS, healing, and/or tanking "test" in a small arena to remove the requirement that someone be cp300 to list for vet DLCs in that role.

The whole reason for that requirement is to give the player time to improve and learn the game before jumping into the hardest dungeons, but I sometimes convert players I know from other MMOs and it's very annoying when I want to list with a newer player who I know has MMO experience, good gear, and does more damage than some cp1000+ randoms I've come across.

Jimmy · May 2019

I was tanking BC2 over the weekend and it took over an hour, DPS after DPS joining and leaving, to beat ol' Rillis.

The common folk, casual gamer DPS in this game is pathetic. First dungeon in the game and people out there can't muster up enough DPS to beat it.

So, I wouldn't be against this idea. Make gamers earn it. Force them to get better.

Skwor · May 2019

NO, failing the dungeon is the test.

You are asking for an in game mechanic that prevents players from ever learning to play said dungeon and honestly sound a bit selfishly motivated at that.
Players want to play not do some stupid random bot check for twitching skills.

In short you are a troll trying to subtly flex your epeen

worrallj · May 2019

idk wrote: »

No. The simple solution if you want to set standards like that is to form your own group. When using the GF you are asking for randomness in who you are paired with. Zos already set standards required for each dungeon. Most dungeons I can provide enough dps for the group to clear without issue even when I am the healer.

"Most dungeons"

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wasn’t in favor of this previously but that’s because I always ran as DPS lol. As a new healer I can see the pain a lot more clearly. The other day I did 50% of the damage and of course all the healing in my dungeon with just shards, WoE and heavy attacks lol. Luckily it was normal but still. It was also a 3 dps queue, the tank was fake. But for vet dungeons random queue I think a minimum of 20k would be good. With a basic rotation and some easy to get gear that’s not hard to get to at all. It would also push DPS to learn their class.

Funny, I used to queue solo to help groups out and helped many get their first clear of a dungeon. I queued as a healer because I could carry the group dps wise while still healing. Unless the group was really, really bad at taking as much damage as they could I would normally out dps the group.

Zos will not be implementing this, mostly because there is no justification for what OP suggests since few fights in the game require X amount of DPS. Zos gave us the ability to form our own group when we want requirements like this.

It really is that easy.

Everyone saying stuff like this is obviously talking about normal dungeons, or maybe base game vets. You actually need a functional group to do dlc vets. That's why it's not a bad idea to suggest something in game to divert people who just don't know any better away from those particular dungeon ques.

Kel · May 2019

I just find it hilarious that people complain about "noobs" and others not knowing things or having experience, and the answer to that is to block them from the things that teach them and gives them experience.

You want better players, and for some reason you think blocking content that let's them grow into better players is somehow a solution. Do you not see how that is a self defeating circle of irrational logic? And why? Because of your own slight inconvenience?
In a random group no less...I think alot of you should look up the meaning of the word.

Of course, there's a easy not so drastic solution.
FORM YOUR OWN GROUP

Skwor · May 2019

worrallj wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No. The simple solution if you want to set standards like that is to form your own group. When using the GF you are asking for randomness in who you are paired with. Zos already set standards required for each dungeon. Most dungeons I can provide enough dps for the group to clear without issue even when I am the healer.

"Most dungeons"

idk wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I wasn’t in favor of this previously but that’s because I always ran as DPS lol. As a new healer I can see the pain a lot more clearly. The other day I did 50% of the damage and of course all the healing in my dungeon with just shards, WoE and heavy attacks lol. Luckily it was normal but still. It was also a 3 dps queue, the tank was fake. But for vet dungeons random queue I think a minimum of 20k would be good. With a basic rotation and some easy to get gear that’s not hard to get to at all. It would also push DPS to learn their class.

Funny, I used to queue solo to help groups out and helped many get their first clear of a dungeon. I queued as a healer because I could carry the group dps wise while still healing. Unless the group was really, really bad at taking as much damage as they could I would normally out dps the group.

Zos will not be implementing this, mostly because there is no justification for what OP suggests since few fights in the game require X amount of DPS. Zos gave us the ability to form our own group when we want requirements like this.

It really is that easy.

Everyone saying stuff like this is obviously talking about normal dungeons, or maybe base game vets. You actually need a functional group to do dlc vets. That's why it's not a bad idea to suggest something in game to divert people who just don't know any better away from those particular dungeon ques.

No, what is a good idea is just play in a pve dungeon guild if you want to filter out players.

It is not a good idea to stop players from playing content just becuase of some arbitrary thing like dps which can vary so wildly and not prevent success when the mechanics are known. Mechanics you can only learn from playing the dungeon.

All this does is add a pointless obstacle to learning the content, people can learn to dps and the mechanics at the same time.

zaria · May 2019

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Dps requirement for pledges? No. I see a problem with implementing this (I mean ZOS made a group finder which is not working, so don't give them more ideas about broken tools) and deciding what the numbers are gonna be. What if ZOS decides 10k is enough for get dungeons? Or what is they decide 50k should be enough? A lot of people would be unhappy.
And do I have to do a dps for every plegde I pick up? That would take some time for ally chars. What about tanks and healers?
I find this very restricting and that is not the spirit of ESO.

Should ESO implement a system that explains weaving and rotations? Yes.
Lot of new players don't even know what weaving is or how to do a rotation. So make something that explains that would help a lot of players improve.

If they add some sort of qualifications I can guarantee it will be on the low part of the scale or around 10K.

An old idea of mine is the undaunted academy, not only about dps but also about mechanics, make it a bit like an arena with you and 3 NPC, start with some trash packs, perhaps with an mini boss. then some bosses with common mechanics, stay out of stupid, pretty scripted say tank get trapped and you have to use synergy to free, final boss adds more adds over time and is the dps check.

Having npc also let you run and qualify healers and tanks. this changes the fight a bit perhaps give enemies lots of more health and also increase the two DD damage output so you can not simply burn the boss as healer or tank.

eliisra · May 2019

If there was an easy way to make sure players queuing as dd's, actually knew how to do it, I'd be all for it.

But how? Sounds crazy annoying being sent into a private instance with dummies, every single time you wanted to do a dungeons as dd. People would be so annoyed by that after a while they'd basically explode and trash the keyboard.

Anyhow, ZoS aren't gonna waste time&money creating a new complex feature, becuse people are unhappy with teammates in PUGs. Players are unhappy with random groups in every MMO on the market. It's not possible to fix, becuse randoms never behave and play the way you want them to.

Edziu · May 2019

to all defending worse players in dps

you know what is mostly reason for threads like this? not just becasue dps is jsut low, but mainly because someone que as DD role s not doing more dps which is doing healer or even tank role

how you do your dps role when tank or healer is outdpsing you while doing own role? something is wrong here when non-DD role is doing more dps than DD role in veteran content

my friend on tank was doing 50% of group dps on normal dung lol, but that was normal dung, not that bad, acceptable as it was easy normal dung but can you imagine this is not very rare to get same low dps in veteran content? where non-dd role is doing more dps thna someone on dd role so this someone is not doing his role so he shouldnt queue for this atleast on veteran mode as he have no exp in it where "exp" to to be more experienced in dd role...doesnt matter on what content you do...better is to learn it on dummy or in normal dung where it is not problem but instead I have spoken mony of those players in just veteran content where dps really matter much more and is need much more or you will never kill an boss without carry from rest of the group which have no duty to carry this "noob" which will learn nothing from single run/carry in vet content

phantasmalD · May 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

There is no actual dps requirement for most of the dungeons. There is no "if you don't have X group dps, you die", in most of the dungeons. It's harder with a lower dps but you can still make it, but there is less room for mistakes. Anyway, there is already a CP restriction, and it's more than enough.

Bolded for emphasis. Unfortunately there are enough dps check-y bosses to sour the experience.
Crypy of Hearts 2 is a classic example, the Ebony Blade mechanism is a pure DPS check, afaik there's no clever way to solve it, just a simple 'burn down the shield'.
Darkshade 2 is pretty miserable with low dps and Banished 2 final boss on HM is very close to being a straight up dps check.

The spriggan boss (Aghaedh of the Solstice) in vMoS is pretty much the poster child of dps checks. Quite simply if you can't put out ~30-40k single target group dps than at least one person is guaranteed to die. And even if you don't wipe as you are trying to get a rez off it's going to be a slow slog as you whittle down the boss' hp between Lurcher spawns.
Moon Hunter Keep also has dps race-y stuff. In the Archivist fight if you can't kill the Werewolf Behemoths fast enough than they will put a heavy bleed on the tank, almost guaranteeing a wipe.
That can kinda be circumvented by an agile and experienced tank tho, but still.

As a side note, the spriggan boss in MoS is prob the worse tuned boss in the game as the absolute minimum dps required to perfectly deal with her mechanism is also just about enough to nuke her down, ignoring the Lurchers.

Prof_Bawbag · May 2019

And folk say pvp is toxic.

I'll be your best pal if you're on par with myself, otherwise do one.

Sanctuary_Reaper · May 2019

I read this thread this morning before i went to work, now im home for a break I cant believe it's still going on.

My take on it is this.

Most of the time the problem is not dps, 20k per dd is plenty to do vet dlc dungeons, the problem is that players just want to race through the content, rather than help a first timer in the dungeon understand what is going on.

That for me is where i personally think the problem lies, everyone thinks this a pure sociable and community game, where in fact the opposite is true.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · May 2019

I think there are a few issues at play here:

1) A lot of players simply don't do acceptable amounts of dps, especially for veteran content. This is due to several reasons, the most prominent two being that:

1A ) There are no teaching tools in-game for how to actual do good amounts of dps

1B ) Many players who play ESO are simply fans of the elder scrolls franchise and have no MMO experience. Even if there were a teaching tool, I'm skeptical as to how many would actually care.

2) Some dungeons are vastly more difficult than others. A new player may get vFG1 and think they can do anything. I have been advocating a re-balancing of ALL dungeons to be in-line with each other for about a year now, but it's mostly fallen on deaf ears. I've heard rumors that they'll be taking another look at DLC dungeons, so we'll have to see.

3) Getting your own group together can be difficult at times, simply because dungeons don't have good incentives. Assuming you have all the monster sets you need and you're at undaunted 10, what is your motivation to do ANY vet dungeon? Undaunted keys? Lol, good one. If you have the gear sets, what is your motivation to do ANY dungeon period?

What we're seeing now is that 90-95% of the endgame populace has everything they need from dungeons. That's why the random queue is so full of new / bad players - because the good ones mostly avoid them, unless they're raising a new toon through undaunted skill line.

Other MMOs have endgame token systems and other currencies that get rewarded for dungeon completions, often with a bonus for the first completion of the day / week for hard mode / vet / w/e you want to call it. Since undaunted keys are worthless to most endgame players, ESO lacks this system entirely. That is a major reason why random queue is so disproportionately high with noobs / scrubs compared to other MMOs.

If you want to fix dungeons and PvE as a whole in this game, ZOS needs to

A ) teach players how their convoluted damage system works in this game, and maybe literally double all the DoT durations while they're at it so rotations aren't so complicated
B ) Rebalance ALL dungeons to create a standard - you know, like every other MMO on the market
C ) Add some kind of reward for using the dungeon queue that trial and endgame players actually give two septims about

Jeremy · May 2019

phantasmalD wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

There is no actual dps requirement for most of the dungeons. There is no "if you don't have X group dps, you die", in most of the dungeons. It's harder with a lower dps but you can still make it, but there is less room for mistakes. Anyway, there is already a CP restriction, and it's more than enough.

Bolded for emphasis. Unfortunately there are enough dps check-y bosses to sour the experience.
Crypy of Hearts 2 is a classic example, the Ebony Blade mechanism is a pure DPS check, afaik there's no clever way to solve it, just a simple 'burn down the shield'.
Darkshade 2 is pretty miserable with low dps and Banished 2 final boss on HM is very close to being a straight up dps check.

The spriggan boss (Aghaedh of the Solstice) in vMoS is pretty much the poster child of dps checks. Quite simply if you can't put out ~30-40k single target group dps than at least one person is guaranteed to die. And even if you don't wipe as you are trying to get a rez off it's going to be a slow slog as you whittle down the boss' hp between Lurcher spawns.
Moon Hunter Keep also has dps race-y stuff. In the Archivist fight if you can't kill the Werewolf Behemoths fast enough than they will put a heavy bleed on the tank, almost guaranteeing a wipe.
That can kinda be circumvented by an agile and experienced tank tho, but still.

As a side note, the spriggan boss in MoS is prob the worse tuned boss in the game as the absolute minimum dps required to perfectly deal with her mechanism is also just about enough to nuke her down, ignoring the Lurchers.

I would go even a bit further then just miserable and say impossible. The Nesh is basically a hidden DPS check as well - because if the DPS aren't capable of burning the adds fast enough the fight becomes pretty much impossible.

This game generally just has way too many "DPS checks". I wish they would just get rid of them. The game would be better as a result in my opinion.

AlnilamE · May 2019

OP, the problem is that you are thinking of benchmark DPS.

Even if ZOS thought this was a good idea, they would probably go with baseline DPS and the check would be 3k for normal dungeons and 10k for vet.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

2) Some dungeons are vastly more difficult than others. A new player may get vFG1 and think they can do anything. I have been advocating a re-balancing of ALL dungeons to be in-line with each other for about a year now, but it's mostly fallen on deaf ears. I've heard rumors that they'll be taking another look at DLC dungeons, so we'll have to see.
(*snip*)

If you want to fix dungeons and PvE as a whole in this game, ZOS needs to

B ) Rebalance ALL dungeons to create a standard - you know, like every other MMO on the market

I disagree. The dungeons are scaled nicely from FG1 to CoA II and the DLCs so that a player can start with simple mechanics and move up the difficulty ladder. If you make all dungeons the same level of difficulty, then there will be no learning path. They'll either have to be ridiculously easy so new players can do them, which will discourage vets from running them, or they have to be challenging enough for vets, which means new players will never try them.

They are fine as they are. If people are not paying attention to the order in which they unlock as you level, maybe ZOS can make this clearer, but I think the difficulty scale is important to keep.

Aulus_Claudius · May 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

This game generally just has way too many "DPS checks". I wish they would just get rid of them. The game would be better as a result in my opinion.

Coming from a game where nearly every boss is a DPS check with a hard enrage mechanic (SWTOR), I can tell you that it doesn't contribute to DPS elitism. If anything quite the contrary; provided the group has sufficient DPS to beat the enrage timer, no one complains it's going too slowly.

In ESO PvE, it often feels like DPS is some kind of god which everyone lives only to serve, especially where the poor tanks and healers are concerned, and DDs can never deal enough of it. Sure, for some bosses you need a certain amount to beat them, and that's fine, but too many entire mechanics can be out-DPSed simply by burning the boss down in 15 seconds. From that perspective I think there's entirely too much DPS and emphasis on DPS in ESO and the top end of it should be toned down a good bit.

thorwyn · May 2019

and ok, I see you are hard defender of noobs in dungs so I see you are probably on of them wanting get free carry through dungs, sorry but probably I dont have anything more to say with you and with your arguments as you probqabl have never played on higher level and you are not that much exp to be able to grind dlc dungs for which even more its annyoing when you ar getting lower than 500cp dd doing full 10k dps!!

No. I'm max. CP, fully geared, ran most of the vet trials and can pull my 35k dps, thanks very much. I just refuse to be an elitist jerk like you.

karekiz · May 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8-2C8VcUE

This will always be an amazing dungeon unlock system. One for tank/heal/DPS

And you gotta love AI running into fire.