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[Tests]Grim Focus Burst Heal is very Unreliable and Weak in spite of its Conditionality/Limitations
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Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭EcclesiaFides wrote: »Grim Focus needs a major overhaul, and it needs it NOW. This annoying juggle of a minigame we have to play in order to receive some wonky damage mitigation and a weak conditional heal needs to GO, and yesterday. No other skill in the game needs this much attention to get a benefit.
Considering 90% of the mnbs in pvp will be trying to proc the bow... what’s the issue with having additional benefits? Could it be easier? Sure! But this isn’t what the devs had in mind.
Currently, you are getting up to 15% additional mitigation and a crappy heal when you actually pull the trigger... for doing nothing more than we already have been.3 -
KatySpirit✭✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
This damage = healing is good for a DPS but it sucks for a tank to rely on doing damage to say alive, especially when the boss has high spell resistance. The tank deserves a heal that depends on health so that a DPS won't get much out of it, which Dark Cloak was (and still is, but is far too weak next patch). They could make Dark Cloak heal for more based on the one Shadow passive that scales on the pieces of heavy armor you wear, then DPS really couldn't make much use of it. Tanks need reliable healing that doesn't demand they take up a whole bar with various weak and inconsistent self heals that have to be kept up all the time in case they take a hard hit. Not all of Nightblade's healing is healing over time (Sap, Offering), and healing without doing damage to anything also isn't out of tune with the class: see Refreshing Path which has never REQUIRED anything take damage to offer healing (also under the Shadow line, like Dark Cloak is). They act like these changes to Grim Focus will make it useful to tanks, but I only see tanks using it because they won't have any choice. A tea saucer is a terrible umbrella but if it's all you have I guess you can hold it over your head and run.
On the other hand the damage = healing was GREAT for healers back before they trashed Funnel Health. I miss those days. Now far too much of my healing is just restoration staff golden glowing sparkles instead of my nice red. I loved being a healer that stole life and used it to heal my allies, but Funnel ticks for less than Mutagen now.Tanks: Warden, Nightblade, Dragonknight
Healers: Nightblade, Templar, Warden, Sorcerer, Dragonknight, Necromancer
DPS: Magsorc, Magblade, Magplar, MagDK, Stamblade, StamNecro1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭you nightblades complain too much. How about we remove the mitigation entirely since you all have major evasion and dot removing cloak. Or we can remove major evasion
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
KatySpirit✭✭✭
Unpopular opinion: I would prefer to just remove the invisibility from Cloak entirely and let them actually balance this class on a level ground with the others. I know, I know, no one is going to agree, but I just don't use the skill, and the ones I do get butchered because of the class having such a broken and OP mechanic in PVP.you nightblades complain too much. How about we remove the mitigation entirely since you all have major evasion and dot removing cloak. Or we can remove major evasion
Also which cloak removes dots?Edited by KatySpirit on May 1, 2019 11:44PMTanks: Warden, Nightblade, Dragonknight
Healers: Nightblade, Templar, Warden, Sorcerer, Dragonknight, Necromancer
DPS: Magsorc, Magblade, Magplar, MagDK, Stamblade, StamNecro0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭KatySpirit wrote: »
Unpopular opinion: I would prefer to just remove the invisibility from Cloak entirely and let them actually balance this class on a level ground with the others. I know, I know, no one is going to agree, but I just don't use the skill, and the ones I do get butchered because of the class having such a broken and OP mechanic in PVP.you nightblades complain too much. How about we remove the mitigation entirely since you all have major evasion and dot removing cloak. Or we can remove major evasion
Hardly broken, hardly op. Slot one of the 400 counters0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.Invictus1 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Grim should heal for 100% of damage doneBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
My understanding is NB healing was nerfed for multiple reasons, but the main reason was to make it more difficult for damage dealers and self-sufficient builds to complete dungeon and trial content without healers.I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
The above reasoning is actually completely insane because they made a "play how you want" RPG in which the same stats improve both healing and damage, and then try to manipulate their system to force players into largely obsolete trinity roles.
I think the Blackrose Resto played a role in that, but worse, was the reason Healing Ward was nerfed.
PVP Magblade has been crapped on all over for balance issues that don't exist in AvA and ZOS is okay with that because it's an unpopular PVP spec.
If a Brian Wheeler sneeze merely sounded like "nerf sorc" there would be a 10 page thread and 20 memes within 5 minutes with ZOS walking it back or buffing them in the next PTS update.Edited by zyk on May 2, 2019 1:23AM4 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭EcclesiaFides wrote: »Grim Focus needs a major overhaul, and it needs it NOW. This annoying juggle of a minigame we have to play in order to receive some wonky damage mitigation and a weak conditional heal needs to GO, and yesterday. No other skill in the game needs this much attention to get a benefit.
I actually agree with that, I hate the ability with a passion. Currently on live in PvP I often can’t even land 5 light attacks before the buff runs out.2 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Grim should heal for 100% of damage done
Pretty much. With the conditions in place, it should damn well be strong when you pull it off.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭EcclesiaFides wrote: »Grim Focus needs a major overhaul, and it needs it NOW. This annoying juggle of a minigame we have to play in order to receive some wonky damage mitigation and a weak conditional heal needs to GO, and yesterday. No other skill in the game needs this much attention to get a benefit.
I actually agree with that, I hate the ability with a passion. Currently on live in PvP I often can’t even land 5 light attacks before the buff runs out.
The mitigation buff still stays active relatively to how many stacks you have. It’s actually a buff for players on high ping or not super adept at procing it as quick as possible.Edited by Insco851 on May 2, 2019 1:26PM0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭KatySpirit wrote: »Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
This damage = healing is good for a DPS but it sucks for a tank to rely on doing damage to say alive, especially when the boss has high spell resistance. The tank deserves a heal that depends on health so that a DPS won't get much out of it, which Dark Cloak was (and still is, but is far too weak next patch). They could make Dark Cloak heal for more based on the one Shadow passive that scales on the pieces of heavy armor you wear, then DPS really couldn't make much use of it. Tanks need reliable healing that doesn't demand they take up a whole bar with various weak and inconsistent self heals that have to be kept up all the time in case they take a hard hit. Not all of Nightblade's healing is healing over time (Sap, Offering), and healing without doing damage to anything also isn't out of tune with the class: see Refreshing Path which has never REQUIRED anything take damage to offer healing (also under the Shadow line, like Dark Cloak is). They act like these changes to Grim Focus will make it useful to tanks, but I only see tanks using it because they won't have any choice. A tea saucer is a terrible umbrella but if it's all you have I guess you can hold it over your head and run.
On the other hand the damage = healing was GREAT for healers back before they trashed Funnel Health. I miss those days. Now far too much of my healing is just restoration staff golden glowing sparkles instead of my nice red. I loved being a healer that stole life and used it to heal my allies, but Funnel ticks for less than Mutagen now.
I Disagree with that too. it's was one of the things that made sap tank unique and fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BejB-bzkJ9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2zqQhN3Ys
i miss sap tank
Invictus2 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This skill has been absolutely gutted
Loool awful devs haven’t got a clue and their ideas are terrible
SMH1 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭
If you compare with the original unnerfed skill, which have 8% damage, 10% stamina recovery unconditionally on stam, 8% damage, even higher damage on proc and a high snare on mag, for a crappy minigame, it is gutted.Edited by nsmurfer on May 2, 2019 2:33PM1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.Edited by Iskiab on May 2, 2019 3:15PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭
If you compare with the original unnerfed skill, which have 8% damage, 10% stamina recovery unconditionally on stam, 8% damage, even higher damage on proc and a high snare on mag, for a crappy minigame, it is gutted.
When you have the Minor Berserk buff the skill does the same damage as live. Relentless Focus is 50% longer which should be a dps increase. The heal on damage is a little silly and maybe should go.
BTW if you've been paying attention it has been obvious for a long time that Grim Focus & morphs would be gutted because the skill was making NBs much better in vCR, vAS, vBRP etc etc and making healers less useful in all content.
Nightblade healing has been nerfed for dps because healers should be needed. Speed has been nerfed because of the inherent delay in an MMO that meant during the Swift meta we moved to fast to hit each other. Nightblade is not getting more damage because the class is pretty set on PVE dps.
Given all those things what do you imagine gets put on the skill? Probably some of the reason Nightblade is getting this mitigation (which WAS always in its toolkit) is how marginal it has been in Battlegrounds which is the place zerglings say solo-ish Nightblades should go not knowing how often you make your team lose by going there.
It'd be funny if ZOS put a 100k self dot on the skill because tHe aSsAsSiNaTiOn LiNe iS sUpPoSeD tO bE aBoUt dEaLiNg dAmAgE.
(Personally, taking the heal off and giving the skills some negligible buff like Major Endurance and Major Resolve so it "does something" when you activate it would probably be good. Keeping the mitigation sounds swell even if the numbers need to be changed.)0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grim focus needs brutality+prophecy and a higher heal percentage. Move the brutality out of sap essence and give it a snare.
Brutality + sorcery you meant?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Old legends say that grim focus required 8 LA/HA to proc assasin's will... what about going back to it BUT increasing the minor berserk proc to 40 secs?
In any case I will never understand ZoS way of fixing things that are not really brokenSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you compare with the original unnerfed skill, which have 8% damage, 10% stamina recovery unconditionally on stam, 8% damage, even higher damage on proc and a high snare on mag, for a crappy minigame, it is gutted.
10% recovery on an already over preforming stamblade=good nerf.
8% dmg got moved to the gap closer which keeps the Stam based spec in line but nerfs the otherwise mag based spec cuz melee mag is much tougher.
High snare on the burst skill makes no sense anyways. Moot point.
Minigame you were already playing if you were magnb cuz max resistance 5k Weapon dmg Stam toons are a regular occurrence.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
You arent really making any sense. The funnel health was nerfed twice because of what it yielded for its price. In pve, it was allowing NBs to just heal the party completely when funnel health applied to 2 additional targets, so they brought it to one target. Then it was hitting too hard for a healing utility so they cut the damage in half and turned into a healers tool. In pve, this is whatever, in pvp the ability was completely gutted. Swallow soul, likewise, the self heal is inconsequential for DDs and for tanks the tool tip is meh at best, still they stripped it of minor vit and just increased the percentage of damage to healing by 10 percent.
Having the heal based off of the tool tip would cause zero issues in pve and make a world of difference for magblades self healing in pvp.1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
No, you misunderstand. it wasn't a nerf to NB healers it was a nerf to Magblades self-heals. Swallow soul Gave Minor Vitality Blackrose Restoration staff gave Major Vitality therein Magblades would have major and minor Vitality up 100% of the time on themselves. if anything NB healers should be using Funnel health not Swallow soul, so it doesn't effect them as much as it did sap tanks and solo builds.Edited by Lucky28 on May 2, 2019 5:09PMInvictus0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
You run brp resto with ward ally to garuntee self buffed. Brawler esque tanky nb healers like it, but evasive / cloak nb healers who can assure a HW pop dont need it.
The magblade nerfs had nothing to do with the brp staff despute what others have said here. The truth of the matter is that going back lretty long ways, nb damage+healing was on the radar.
Initially, funnel heath used to smart heal 2 allies and yourself and zos felt that groups were far too efficient with a magblade or 2 with damage and healing. So they nerfed the cost of strife, they nerfed the target count on funnel, they nerfed swallow soul with removing minor vit, they nerfed refreshing path by removing damage.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
No, you misunderstand. it wasn't a nerf to NB healers it was a nerf to Magblades self-heals. Swallow soul Gave Minor Vitality Blackrose Restoration staff gave Major Vitality therein Magblades would have major and minor Vitality up 100% of the time on themselves. if anything NB healers should be using Funnel health not Swallow soul, so it doesn't effect them as much as it did sap tanks and solo builds.
I dont think having minor and major vit up at the same time is some kind of red flag problem child on a magblade. If anything bolstered self hots was always kind of their thing when it came to defense.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
No, you misunderstand. it wasn't a nerf to NB healers it was a nerf to Magblades self-heals. Swallow soul Gave Minor Vitality Blackrose Restoration staff gave Major Vitality therein Magblades would have major and minor Vitality up 100% of the time on themselves. if anything NB healers should be using Funnel health not Swallow soul, so it doesn't effect them as much as it did sap tanks and solo builds.
While I get the argument, the idea you would have 100% uptime on major vitality is lofty at best. 4K ward ally and the major vitality proc lasts 3 seconds. It’s good enough for a burst heal if you combine it as such (blessing of resto... but that barely brings this skill in line with other burst heals so...) - found better results with Dark cloak+Rapid regen ticks honestly.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
You arent really making any sense. The funnel health was nerfed twice because of what it yielded for its price. In pve, it was allowing NBs to just heal the party completely when funnel health applied to 2 additional targets, so they brought it to one target. Then it was hitting too hard for a healing utility so they cut the damage in half and turned into a healers tool. In pve, this is whatever, in pvp the ability was completely gutted. Swallow soul, likewise, the self heal is inconsequential for DDs and for tanks the tool tip is meh at best, still they stripped it of minor vit and just increased the percentage of damage to healing by 10 percent.
Having the heal based off of the tool tip would cause zero issues in pve and make a world of difference for magblades self healing in pvp.Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
No, you misunderstand. it wasn't a nerf to NB healers it was a nerf to Magblades self-heals. Swallow soul Gave Minor Vitality Blackrose Restoration staff gave Major Vitality therein Magblades would have major and minor Vitality up 100% of the time on themselves. if anything NB healers should be using Funnel health not Swallow soul, so it doesn't effect them as much as it did sap tanks and solo builds.
I agree that the issue was pve raids using NBs with funnel health and refreshing path leading to not needing two healers.
However the consequence has been no healers use funnel health or swallow soul. They’re both magblade dps abilities and not magblade healer abilities.
Using funnel health would be horrible as a healer. It’s a 10 second hot tied to how much damage you do, healers don’t spec for pen so the damage is low and people block and run high mitigation in PvP.
I actually think people trying to use funnel health is why people say magblade healers are terrible. Funnel health does very little damage and healing. An ability like rapid regen will heal for more, last longer, tick more often, and doesn’t require a target. It’s actually dumping swallow soul/funnel health that makes magblade healing work.Edited by Iskiab on May 2, 2019 5:25PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"
I don't really get what you're saying. I should clarify that I mean nightblade self healing, not nightbaldes in a healer role. And yes, swallow soul and AW self healing is OP in PvE, while its completly *** in PvP
I don't know anything about NB healers never played one never will. what i'm saying is: MagNB got their healing nerfed because of the Blackrose Restoration staff which would have given Magicka nightblades 100% uptime on Minor Vitality and Major Vitality. the nerfs had little to do with how they where performing in PvE or PvP but how it was perceived they'd perform after the release of that staff....
which is what pisses me off about the entire thing. a class shouldn't be nerfed because of a set. the class is the important thing here not item sets, if they're gonna nerf something they should have nerfed the Blackrose resto staff.
Weird, if that was their reasoning it worked. I know of no NB healers who use it, in fact it’s not even on my radar as something I’d want to try. Have it unupgraded in my bank.
As a healer there’s no way to control who gets the ward. Trying to use it to apply the buff would be silly. I can think of 3-4 staves that are better.. I’m not sure if it’s 3 or 4, how many other 2 piece weapon sets are there?
I’m pretty sure there’s no association between the two at all.
No, you misunderstand. it wasn't a nerf to NB healers it was a nerf to Magblades self-heals. Swallow soul Gave Minor Vitality Blackrose Restoration staff gave Major Vitality therein Magblades would have major and minor Vitality up 100% of the time on themselves. if anything NB healers should be using Funnel health not Swallow soul, so it doesn't effect them as much as it did sap tanks and solo builds.
I dont think having minor and major vit up at the same time is some kind of red flag problem child on a magblade. If anything bolstered self hots was always kind of their thing when it came to defense.
Yeah i agree it was their thing. now both strife and refreshing path straight up suck in PvP. so whatever, the reason for the nerfs it was a harmful mistake.Edited by Lucky28 on May 2, 2019 5:48PMInvictus0