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[Tests]Grim Focus Burst Heal is very Unreliable and Weak in spite of its Conditionality/Limitations
susmitds
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I have tested the Heal of Grim Focus (both morphs) in quite a few PTS PvP fights. Here are 15 results of each morph against various builds. For Magicka Nightblade, I used a Caluriions/Rattlecage/Valkyn/Master Staff build. For Stamina Nightblade, I used a Spriggan/Hunding/Blood Spawn/Master Bow build.
Merciless Resolve (Magicka morph)
3156, 4584, 0*, 2867, 0*, 2279, 0*, 4624, 5417, 0*, 0*, 0*, 2730, 3977, 0*
Note - None of the hits were blocked.
* - The Bow proc fires in melee range but for whatever reason the damage occurs but not the heal.
Average - 3704 with a Failure rate of 47%
Relentless Focus (Stamina morph)
2814, 2156, 1718, 0*, 1589, 0*, 3101, 0*, 0*, 3173, 1978, 2610, 0*, 2944, 0*
Note - None of the hits were blocked.
* - The Bow proc fires in melee range but for whatever reason the damage occurs but not the heal.
Average - 2453 with a Failure rate of 40%
The Heal amount is very low compared to all other burst heals in the game. It is barely higher than a single Vigor tick which crits around 2300 with the same stamNB build and similar case with magNB.
To put things into perspective, let look at the various conditional aspects/cons for the Grim Focus heal.
Essentially the heal is badly designed due to unreliable nature and low numbers in general. Going at melee range for a meager 3k heal as a magblade is suicide. Skills like Rally, the past Healing Ward, Draining Shot, Coagulating Blood heal several times this amount with none of the risk/cons attached.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Edited by susmitds on April 30, 2019 5:56AM Merciless Resolve (Magicka morph)
3156, 4584, 0*, 2867, 0*, 2279, 0*, 4624, 5417, 0*, 0*, 0*, 2730, 3977, 0*
Note - None of the hits were blocked.
* - The Bow proc fires in melee range but for whatever reason the damage occurs but not the heal.
Average - 3704 with a Failure rate of 47%
Relentless Focus (Stamina morph)
2814, 2156, 1718, 0*, 1589, 0*, 3101, 0*, 0*, 3173, 1978, 2610, 0*, 2944, 0*
Note - None of the hits were blocked.
* - The Bow proc fires in melee range but for whatever reason the damage occurs but not the heal.
Average - 2453 with a Failure rate of 40%
The Heal amount is very low compared to all other burst heals in the game. It is barely higher than a single Vigor tick which crits around 2300 with the same stamNB build and similar case with magNB.
To put things into perspective, let look at the various conditional aspects/cons for the Grim Focus heal.
- Needs a Skill Activation, which costs resources but does nothing initially.
- Needs 5 LAs to proc, which takes over 5 GCD in PvP.
- Needs a target.
- Needs to be in 7M range of the target.
- Can be dodged resulting in no heal.
- Can be blocked resulting in insignificant heal.
- Damage be mitigated passively by tanky builds, resulting in very low heals.
- Heal is insignificant against DKs with Wings.
- Need Hard and/or Soft CC to have a semi reliable chance of a heal.
- Firing the Proc also cost further Resources.
- Firing the Proc means losing the 15% mitigation stacks.
- Half of the time fails to heal at all even after CC+Root.
- Puts the user, specially magblades, in extremely badly situation by forcing them to enter melee range without most of their HP.
Essentially the heal is badly designed due to unreliable nature and low numbers in general. Going at melee range for a meager 3k heal as a magblade is suicide. Skills like Rally, the past Healing Ward, Draining Shot, Coagulating Blood heal several times this amount with none of the risk/cons attached.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Needs to be either a burst + HoT after
Or
A larger burst considering the conditions5 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Grim focus needs brutality+prophecy and a higher heal percentage. Move the brutality out of sap essence and give it a snare.7 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭Magblade in melee is suicide agains any desent stamina player. Against groups even more terrible. Seems like magblade is tank class now in pvp.4 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grim Focus is a total mess now. They should've just kept everything in that skill as it was, except of course the Minor Berserk because for some reason they thought it was necessary to give us Minor Vulnerability (a stronger buff). The Minor Berserk should be replaced by another buff and th Minor Endurance on the Stamina morph should be kept and Minor Intellect added to the Magicka morph.
The mitigation thing on light attacks?... Still doesn't solve the issue of an empty cast. Not to mention that having a tanking buff on a pure DPS skill is one of the stupidest things I've seen/heard since having a cast time of shields.
A cool thing would have been to ditch the Minor Vulnerability on Ambush and put it onto the Bow proc instead, since its not spammable, it is easily telegraphed and it is a slow projectile. Even though at this point I still don't understand why it is so essential to remove Minor Berserk from Grim Focus.
And something I understand even less is the whole mitigation and healing thing on this skill. Its a DPS skill. It has both Tanking and Healing in it. W. T. F.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade20 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Grim Focus is a total mess now. They should've just kept everything in that skill as it was, except of course the Minor Berserk because for some reason they thought it was necessary to give us Minor Vulnerability (a stronger buff). The Minor Berserk should be replaced by another buff and th Minor Endurance on the Stamina morph should be kept and Minor Intellect added to the Magicka morph.
The mitigation thing on light attacks?... Still doesn't solve the issue of an empty cast. Not to mention that having a tanking buff on a pure DPS skill is one of the stupidest things I've seen/heard since having a cast time of shields.
A cool thing would have been to ditch the Minor Vulnerability on Ambush and put it onto the Bow proc instead, since its not spammable, it is easily telegraphed and it is a slow projectile. Even though at this point I still don't understand why it is so essential to remove Minor Berserk from Grim Focus.
And something I understand even less is the whole mitigation and healing thing on this skill. Its a DPS skill. It has both Tanking and Healing in it. W. T. F.
So magblade would only get Minor Vulnerability after they applied pressure and after Soul Harvest and at the very last hit of the combo? Also that'd probably be a problem in PVE if nightblades helped with Minor Vulnerability uptime.
It's always the stamblade mains who forget that damaging and healing is a core nightblade schtick and that their own Surprise Attack was the epitome of a damage and defense skill.
Also, yes, the heal is a bit bad at helping PvP chars and mabe too much healing for endgame dps. It may help get players new to ESO and new to nightblades to work on firing their bow procs as often as possible? Guessing that that's why?0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The new Grim Focus is very powerful now actually lol. I don't think that the ability needs further buffs.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »The new Grim Focus is very powerful now actually lol. I don't think that the ability needs further buffs.
I am assuming you haven't played a magblade. No amount of mitigation will help as long as you lose it all upon firing the actual bow proc which is the primary burst of magblade. We need a reliable burst heal which this is supposed to be but fails spectacularly.2 -
Rehdaun✭✭✭✭✭No amount of mitigation will help as long as you lose it all upon firing the actual bow proc which is the primary burst of magblade. We need a reliable burst heal which this is supposed to be but fails spectacularly.
This 100%. As a DD NB, we don't need some stupid mitigation (speaking of the resistance addition of course) that is dependent upon not doing damage.Edited by Rehdaun on April 30, 2019 12:47PM2 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭I've paised this countless times now but I'll do it again:
Swallow Soul and Assasins Will heals need to fire on skill activation and apply seperate from damage done (and therefore target mitigtaion).
This resuslts in reliable healing for PvP specs while eliminating overpowered crithealing from PvE speces with high damage multipliers.7 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@susmitds
How does the heal apply? I mean does it have an animation like Draining Shot? The heal from Draining Shot used to behave like a projectile and could be dodged by the user, I am wondering if the same thing is happening here.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
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@Toc de MalsviToc de Malsvi wrote: »How does the heal apply? I mean does it have an animation like Draining Shot? The heal from Draining Shot used to behave like a projectile and could be dodged by the user, I am wondering if the same thing is happening here.
There is no discernible animation of the heal like Draining Shot. The heal not working has more to do with the range limit of 7m. Even though, it might appear that the target is in range of the heal in your screen, he can be further away in the server.
This unreliable nature increases depending on the mobility of both combatants. Against speed builds which will return this meta, it can be virtually impossible to get a heal from it, without CC.Edited by susmitds on April 30, 2019 1:44PM2 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RobGarrett
A relatively weak but long flat amount hot like that on Rally/Forward Momentum to Grim focus for its duration will make the healing aspect somewhat better.7 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This skill just...is all over the place.
Grim Focus is the Nightblade dump skill and that is not good. It's the skill they put everything on for NB because a) it's conditional b) it takes some effort to get. They can't just give NBs 15% damage mitigation - so they throw it on Grim Focus. They can't give them gigantic burst healing - so they throw it on Grim Focus.
Conceptually this doesn't make any sense. Grim Focus is patchworking a lot of Nightblade's internal issues, but the fix action has made one skill a gigantic mess to operate.0331
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FangOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭✭Grim Focus is a total mess now. They should've just kept everything in that skill as it was, except of course the Minor Berserk because for some reason they thought it was necessary to give us Minor Vulnerability (a stronger buff). The Minor Berserk should be replaced by another buff and th Minor Endurance on the Stamina morph should be kept and Minor Intellect added to the Magicka morph.
The mitigation thing on light attacks?... Still doesn't solve the issue of an empty cast. Not to mention that having a tanking buff on a pure DPS skill is one of the stupidest things I've seen/heard since having a cast time of shields.
A cool thing would have been to ditch the Minor Vulnerability on Ambush and put it onto the Bow proc instead, since its not spammable, it is easily telegraphed and it is a slow projectile. Even though at this point I still don't understand why it is so essential to remove Minor Berserk from Grim Focus.
And something I understand even less is the whole mitigation and healing thing on this skill. Its a DPS skill. It has both Tanking and Healing in it. W. T. F.
So magblade would only get Minor Vulnerability after they applied pressure and after Soul Harvest and at the very last hit of the combo? Also that'd probably be a problem in PVE if nightblades helped with Minor Vulnerability uptime.
It's always the stamblade mains who forget that damaging and healing is a core nightblade schtick and that their own Surprise Attack was the epitome of a damage and defense skill.
Also, yes, the heal is a bit bad at helping PvP chars and mabe too much healing for endgame dps. It may help get players new to ESO and new to nightblades to work on firing their bow procs as often as possible? Guessing that that's why?
"Too much healing for end game dps." Do you run with no healer? Vigor is enough healing in PvE. If you need a stronger self heal then you're doing something wrong. I can agree it would help newer players but once they figure things out it'll be useless.0 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please ZoS this has gotten out of hand just trash it and start from scratch with this skill...4 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do Zos even know what they want Grim Focus to do?
Like a lot of things, they're just throwing out random ideas and seeing what sticks.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)4 -
Apxac✭✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.2 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Give magblade some love we need burst heal that is a oh sht button use one of the malevolent offering morphs and major sorcery on merciless.Edited by Deathlord92 on May 1, 2019 11:24AM1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grim Focus is a total mess now. They should've just kept everything in that skill as it was, except of course the Minor Berserk because for some reason they thought it was necessary to give us Minor Vulnerability (a stronger buff). The Minor Berserk should be replaced by another buff and th Minor Endurance on the Stamina morph should be kept and Minor Intellect added to the Magicka morph.
The mitigation thing on light attacks?... Still doesn't solve the issue of an empty cast. Not to mention that having a tanking buff on a pure DPS skill is one of the stupidest things I've seen/heard since having a cast time of shields.
A cool thing would have been to ditch the Minor Vulnerability on Ambush and put it onto the Bow proc instead, since its not spammable, it is easily telegraphed and it is a slow projectile. Even though at this point I still don't understand why it is so essential to remove Minor Berserk from Grim Focus.
And something I understand even less is the whole mitigation and healing thing on this skill. Its a DPS skill. It has both Tanking and Healing in it. W. T. F.
So magblade would only get Minor Vulnerability after they applied pressure and after Soul Harvest and at the very last hit of the combo? Also that'd probably be a problem in PVE if nightblades helped with Minor Vulnerability uptime.
It's always the stamblade mains who forget that damaging and healing is a core nightblade schtick and that their own Surprise Attack was the epitome of a damage and defense skill.
Also, yes, the heal is a bit bad at helping PvP chars and mabe too much healing for endgame dps. It may help get players new to ESO and new to nightblades to work on firing their bow procs as often as possible? Guessing that that's why?
Nothing called too much of a burst heal. Most burst heals without any condition fully heal you. A conditional one should do better if anything.1 -
burglar✭✭✭✭Just reading all of those conditions made me cringe. I've been playing nightblade since launch, but I've never sat down and listed out just how many conditions there were for this ability to function. With that many conditions it's like most of what we do is going to revolve around that one tool, which I guess it makes sense when it delivers the amount of utility it's supposed to.Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.Edited by Lucky28 on May 1, 2019 5:59PMInvictus0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE6 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing from this ability is basically useless, as well as healing from all the other abilities Magblade. It only works against targets with low resistance or non-blocking targets. I have already written more than once that it is worth removing this damn link to the damage done and making the healing of these abilities permanent and stable. This system will be understandable and accessible. In addition, minor protection for 8 seconds I really like, but 4.5% HP per second? Are you seriously? This is not healing, it's just useless crap.
I disagree vehemently with that idea. it is static and boring, damage and healing being linked is what makes magblade, magblade that is a critical part of the classes identity. ZoS just needs to fix the class that was *** up beyond recognition by undoing many of the nerfs Magblade unjustly received to healing.
The direct link to damage is what causes the imbalance between PvE and PvP Magblade healing. While damage from swallow soul is very limited in PvP due to mitigation and mechanics, PvE fully benefits from all damage multipliers in raids and pulls insane damage and therefore healing by said skills.
Cutting the link to damage and apply seperate HoTs is the only solution, as it raises the floor for PvP but lowers the ceiling for PvE
No because the things they did only really affected PvP. I don't really notice a change in healing when PvEing as PvE is more about mechanics. So, no it's not really the classes that's the problem it's the predictability of PvE that's the problem.
Like with this Merciless heal, It's likely gonna give NB's the most healing they've ever had in PvE while being ultimately worthless in PvP. They Likely didn't even nerf NB heals because of PvE but because of a staff that hadn't even been released yet and rather than looking at said staff and adjusting it as Stacking Major and Minor Vit with all of NB's HoT's would have been broken. they just said "nah, lets just nerf everything"Edited by Lucky28 on May 1, 2019 8:07PMInvictus0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZoS totally mess up a skill and a class identity to the point where it doesn't know what it wants to be?
Nooo. That's just shocking
/sarcasmBeta tester November 20131 -
Grim Focus needs a major overhaul, and it needs it NOW. This annoying juggle of a minigame we have to play in order to receive some wonky damage mitigation and a weak conditional heal needs to GO, and yesterday. No other skill in the game needs this much attention to get a benefit.7