Bow/bow is dead

RandomKodiak · April 2019

Well no changes or even comments on the fact that the snipe changes traded .1 sec for 25% damage oh well guess it's play a necro or hell with you

Shame I really liked this game.

AMeanOne · April 2019

Delete snipe

Kilavkid · April 2019

Is it that bad in the PTS? haven't tried it but what did they do to it?

FakeFox · April 2019

kathandira · April 2019

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Well no changes or even comments on the fact that the snipe changes traded .1 sec for 25% damage oh well guess it's play a necro or hell with you Shame I really liked this game.

Your stuff, Can I have it?

Demra · April 2019

I know, i really don't got what the difference between bow and staff. One is an acceptable form of fighting while the other is a disgraceful tool of cowards who want to get kills while maitaining distance from their opponents on the battlefield. Either way don't expect too much sympathy i guess.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

Kilavkid wrote: »

Is it that bad in the PTS? haven't tried it but what did they do to it?

The changes to Snipe appear to be affected by ping. So with the 1.1 + 0.2 delay some might have gotten close to 1.3 seconds between snipes on live, on the PTS some of those same people are getting 1.2-1.25 seconds between Snipes. This has been my experience which led to some of my own posts on here. From this perspective it would appear to be nerf, not everyone is getting the same results though and the variance of the delay between skills would imply that ping is affecting the response.

@hedna123b14_ESO has some decent parses on their youtube channel. They could give you a better analysis of the position.

technohic · April 2019

Will trade you the Dark Flare nerf for the snipe nerf

Grandma · April 2019

i.. i just can't even begin. bow/bow wasn't even a thing until people realized spiders existed. now you're quitting the game because they nerfed bow/bow, like you've been playing it since launch? hello?

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

technohic wrote: »

Will trade you the Dark Flare nerf for the snipe nerf

I don't think anyone would, its a crappy deal for Dark Flare. That doesn't necessarily mean its not bad for Snipe, just better than Dark Flare. Dark Flare has less backing just because less players actually use it. I'm guessing they decided it needed a larger nerf because it retained AOE Major Defile as well as it had a higher base damage to begin with.

BlackMadara · April 2019

Without ping being a factor (even considering ping, this should be the same if using both variations with the exact same ping), the .1 s reduced cast time along with the removal of .2 s post cast cd, would mean a total 27% reduction in total cast time between snipes. So, if snipe is used as a spammable, you will get a dps increase.

The only real nerf was to snipe spam ganks, which is nerfed by the reduced damage and the increased projectile speed of the arrow.

If people are getting slower snipe spam, it is due to their connection to pts being different than the live server.

RandomKodiak · April 2019

@Toc de Malsvi I have seen your posts on this and like you run about 100 ping when playing. If it was just ping then why with the exact same ping showing is it so bad? If they had actually taken .3 off and it was working properly wouldn't a 4th snipe to make up for the 25% nerf be possible without the backbar dropping? The thing that really pisses me off the most about it is Sorc and DK have no ranged to throw in there unlike Warden where IF it was working right at least you could throw in one bird spam. It was a flat nerf to appease pvpers who don't understand the desynch in cyro was the problem not the damage of snipe, and this didn't fix the real issue so they are still going to be mad and those few of us who pve with bows just get screwed. I really thank you for your help these past few months but a 3k dps loss for me kicks me out of my progression guild and due to physical limitations the slower rotation with bows is all I could actually dps with. So thank you again and keep fighting the good fight but this nerf kills the game for me.

Olupajmibanan · April 2019

I used snipe as spammable on my Daedric Prey bow/bow stamsorc. I noticed severe dps decrease, because 0,1 seconds of cast time reduction was not enough to fit additional snipe in my rotation.

Snipe nerf killed any non-Necro and non-Warden bow/bow build. Anyways, on Necro, bow/bow is a thing. And I mean a real thing even without spiders (which now will be used by petsorcs mostly). Also warden is kind of OK bow/bow as well but not that good as necro.

Jowrik · April 2019

Grandma wrote: »

i.. i just can't even begin. bow/bow wasn't even a thing until people realized spiders existed. now you're quitting the game because they nerfed bow/bow, like you've been playing it since launch? hello?

I've been playing it since launch. Just because it got some attention due to some stupid Shadow silk bug recently doesn't mean anything.... Consistent 50k DPS in dungeons and more in trials without ever using the spiders.

The snipe change was a big nerf to any PVE Bow/bow player that didn't have a ranged stamina spammable. And don't start with crushing weapon because that's clunky as hell.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

Without ping being a factor (even considering ping, this should be the same if using both variations with the exact same ping), the .1 s reduced cast time along with the removal of .2 s post cast cd, would mean a total 27% reduction in total cast time between snipes. So, if snipe is used as a spammable, you will get a dps increase.

The only real nerf was to snipe spam ganks, which is nerfed by the reduced damage and the increased projectile speed of the arrow.

If people are getting slower snipe spam, it is due to their connection to pts being different than the live server.

It SHOULD be, well assuming your rotation allows for another skill. Based on the latency command in game, my ping on live is ~100-110, on the PTS its ~90-100. But I don't see that performance difference.

My old rotation was:

Endless Hail> FOO> Noxious> Caltrops> Barswap> Snipe>Snipe> Poison Injection> Re-Arming> Venomous Claw> Barswap> Rinse from Endless. With slight changes for start, finish, and ultimate.

The reduction in time doesn't quite afford me another Snipe, even if I was getting the 0.3 sec savings. I lose uptime on dots to do so.

I have a different rotation at range which has 4-5+ Snipes in a row which should see the increased number of snipes.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

That isn't to say that the rotation cannot be changed fundamentally to be more dynamic to take advantage of the time gain.

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi I have seen your posts on this and like you run about 100 ping when playing. If it was just ping then why with the exact same ping showing is it so bad? If they had actually taken .3 off and it was working properly wouldn't a 4th snipe to make up for the 25% nerf be possible without the backbar dropping? The thing that really pisses me off the most about it is Sorc and DK have no ranged to throw in there unlike Warden where IF it was working right at least you could throw in one bird spam. It was a flat nerf to appease pvpers who don't understand the desynch in cyro was the problem not the damage of snipe, and this didn't fix the real issue so they are still going to be mad and those few of us who pve with bows just get screwed. I really thank you for your help these past few months but a 3k dps loss for me kicks me out of my progression guild and due to physical limitations the slower rotation with bows is all I could actually dps with. So thank you again and keep fighting the good fight but this nerf kills the game for me.

I try to stay up to date. Unfortunately this PTS I have other things in RL going on which prevent me from testing as thoroughly as I might have in the past. I've only had the time to do a few parses and a couple duels.

notyuu · April 2019

Demra wrote: »

I know, i really don't got what the difference between bow and staff. One is an acceptable form of fighting while the other is a disgraceful tool of cowards who want to get kills while maitaining distance from their opponents on the battlefield. Either way don't expect too much sympathy i guess.

The difference is simple, Staff didn't assblast you for 25K+ damage + dot + defile from 40 meters away without breaking stealth.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Kilavkid wrote: »

Is it that bad in the PTS? haven't tried it but what did they do to it?

The changes to Snipe appear to be affected by ping. So with the 1.1 + 0.2 delay some might have gotten close to 1.3 seconds between snipes on live, on the PTS some of those same people are getting 1.2-1.25 seconds between Snipes. This has been my experience which led to some of my own posts on here. From this perspective it would appear to be nerf, not everyone is getting the same results though and the variance of the delay between skills would imply that ping is affecting the response.

@hedna123b14_ESO has some decent parses on their youtube channel. They could give you a better analysis of the position.

Yup bow bow is just fine, still slightly below melee but not by much...maybe 3-5k...

AScaryDinosaur · April 2019

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Well no changes or even comments on the fact that the snipe changes traded .1 sec for 25% damage oh well guess it's play a necro or hell with you Shame I really liked this game.

Swap snipe for Crushing Weapon. You heal for some of the damage done, instant cast, and can be cast in stealth. I have meaning to try this, as I think it could make for an interesting setup. You could still hit hard with a bow, and you get some survivability along side it.

Marcus_Thracius · April 2019

hmmm so ppl say snipe is dead .. just wait till you see more ppl spamming it now
And good gankers will just adapt and still gank you
Love ppl that cry when ganked - all those sweet tears warms my cockles

RandomKodiak · April 2019

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

frostz417 · April 2019

Snipe deserved the nerf.

AScaryDinosaur · April 2019

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

Never said it would out damage snipe. If it did while still healing for 15% it would be insane. All I said is it is a possible, and interesting, alternative.

Jagdkommando · April 2019

Grandma wrote: »

i.. i just can't even begin. bow/bow wasn't even a thing until people realized spiders existed. now you're quitting the game because they nerfed bow/bow, like you've been playing it since launch? hello?

Mate the thing is that players have found new playstyle/build or even feature and most of them liked it. And after ZOS is nerfing entire bow/bow builds. Dont you agree that its not the way it should be?

P.S. And please dont tell me its not a nerf, because in real scenarios players dont spam it until trial boss dies. And you wont be able to do even equal dps due to 0.1 second and faster travel time.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

Azyle1 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

@hedna123b14_ESO
Soo Stam Necro Bow/Bow will be viable in vAS and vCR?

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

@hedna123b14_ESO
Soo Stam Necro Bow/Bow will be viable in vAS and vCR?

I don't see why not

Azyle1 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

@hedna123b14_ESO
Soo Stam Necro Bow/Bow will be viable in vAS and vCR?

I don't see why not

@hedna123b14_ESO

There was no spider synergy in that video, right? No other person giving out anything. I also noticed you arent using the frostvault set. No Minor Force?

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

@hedna123b14_ESO
Soo Stam Necro Bow/Bow will be viable in vAS and vCR?

I don't see why not

@hedna123b14_ESO

There was no spider synergy in that video, right? No other person giving out anything. I also noticed you arent using the frostvault set. No Minor Force?

Correct, it was a solo test done on the raid buffed dummy. I used the new stam set Lokkestiizt

Azyle1 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO What's your youtube channel I would be interested, because I can't get it to work at all. @AScaryDinosaur Crushing weapon is crap for bows, it is clunky and 3-4k behind snipe on live now so no that is not the answer.

This was from week 1, I didnt test week 2, but it should be very close to melee.

https://youtu.be/TkQ1tyZlwSM

@hedna123b14_ESO
Soo Stam Necro Bow/Bow will be viable in vAS and vCR?

I don't see why not

@hedna123b14_ESO

There was no spider synergy in that video, right? No other person giving out anything. I also noticed you arent using the frostvault set. No Minor Force?

Correct, it was a solo test done on the raid buffed dummy. I used the new stam set Lokkestiizt

Any draw backs to using this set in vAS/vCR? I do not play Mag as I do not like it. I am forcing myself to make a MagPlar for the mini trials but was planning on making a StamNecro anyways so... if I can kill two birds with one stone, that'd be nice.