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NIghtblade's changes to Minor Berserk, Major Fracture and Minor Vulnerability.
Izaki
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Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush 
) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
Another thing is of course the hot mess that Grim Focus has become. Mitigation upon light attacking? On a pure damage skill? A heal that only works in close range? An empty cast in the begining? This doesn't make sense.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
Edited by Izaki on April 30, 2019 9:13AM ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.Another thing is of course the hot mess that Grim Focus has become. Mitigation upon light attacking? On a pure damage skill? A heal that only works in close range? An empty cast in the begining? This doesn't make sense.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name
) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill (
) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade
5
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Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.Edited by Azyle1 on April 29, 2019 1:13PM0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Magdens don’t exist in pve lmao. That class is such a joke when it comes to pve dps. So that’s likely why they’re keeping it on warden, and taking it away from nightblade1 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Magdens don’t exist in pve lmao. That class is such a joke when it comes to pve dps. So that’s likely why they’re keeping it on warden, and taking it away from nightblade
Right. That is what I am saying. No one really plays sWarden or mWarden in PVE, despite sWarden being really, really good.
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.Edited by Izaki on April 29, 2019 1:34PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, it's not like magdens are nonexistent in PvE, they are just hard and need a little buff. I saw parses on new dummy, 80k+ on magden so things aren't THAT bad0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.
The Trial dummy doesn't provide major fracture? The new dummy that gives other stuff doesn't provide fracture?
If that is the case, then... well... I did not know that. Obviously SA from Warden gives it, but the dummy doesn't provide it?0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Can confirm power extraction is dodgeable.
Although, it really shouldn't be. But again, it also shouldn't be as strong as it is.
If it were up to me, I would make it undodgeable (like most other direct damage AoE) and bring down the tooltip to the PBAoE standard. Then, I would give it the same conditional that the other morph, sap essence receives, but for damage instead of healing: increases damage of the ability by 20% for every enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6.Edited by twing1_ on April 29, 2019 2:50PM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.
The Trial dummy doesn't provide major fracture? The new dummy that gives other stuff doesn't provide fracture?
If that is the case, then... well... I did not know that. Obviously SA from Warden gives it, but the dummy doesn't provide it?
No it doesn't provide any armor debuffs at all. You can even see it in your Combat Metrics window. Its bugged.Edited by Izaki on April 29, 2019 2:37PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.
The Trial dummy doesn't provide major fracture? The new dummy that gives other stuff doesn't provide fracture?
If that is the case, then... well... I did not know that. Obviously SA from Warden gives it, but the dummy doesn't provide it?
No it doesn't provide any armor debuffs at all. You can even see it in your Combat Metrics window.
I don't run that since I mainly play console and only use the PTS to get an idea of the future and stuff for my fellow guildmates.
IF that is the case then... yeah, Stamblade is gonna be just fine and Stamnecro, who also doesn't get fracture to my knowledge is OP as hell.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.
The Trial dummy doesn't provide major fracture? The new dummy that gives other stuff doesn't provide fracture?
If that is the case, then... well... I did not know that. Obviously SA from Warden gives it, but the dummy doesn't provide it?
No it doesn't provide any armor debuffs at all. You can even see it in your Combat Metrics window.
I don't run that since I mainly play console and only use the PTS to get an idea of the future and stuff for my fellow guildmates.
IF that is the case then... yeah, Stamblade is gonna be just fine and Stamnecro, who also doesn't get fracture to my knowledge is OP as hell.
Yeah Stamblade is stronger in PvE and in PvP this patch, which is basically the exact opposite of what was meant to happen.Edited by Izaki on April 29, 2019 2:42PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can confirm power extraction is dodgeable.
Although, it really shouldn't be. Be again, it also shouldn't be as strong as it is.
If it were up to me, I would make it undodgeable (like most other direct damage AoE) and bring down the tooltip to the PBAoE standard. Then, I would give it the same conditional that the other morph, sap essence receives, but for damage instead of healing: increases damage of the ability by 20% for every enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6.
Oh? Its the only dodgeable PBAoE? Damn didn't know that@ Izaki #PCEU
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#Stamblade0 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
What it does is shoehorns the class into playing a melee build and using a gap closer. For any stamina or magicka ranged PVP build this is a nerf. It does increase their group utility a bit, which is a welcome addition.
2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.@ Izaki #PCEU
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#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dalsinthus wrote: »Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
What it does is shoehorns the class into playing a melee build and using a gap closer. For any stamina or magicka ranged PVP build this is a nerf. It does increase their group utility a bit, which is a welcome addition.
Most Stamblades were already melee builds unless you count Snipers and Gankers. So this is a nerf to Magblades indeed, but its a buff to the already very strong Stamblades. It doesn't make any sense to do that.@ Izaki #PCEU
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#Stamblade1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Minor Berserk is additive with other % damage boni (including CP), so in the end you're getting less than 8%. Minor Vulnerability doesn't work that way since its a debuff, you actually get the full 8%. So it is objectively stronger vs any one given target.
However, Nightblades didn't have many AoE abilities slotted in PvP to begin with anyway. Plus since the debuff lasts for 8 seconds, you should have no problem whatsoever spamming Teleport Strike on different targets.Edited by Izaki on April 29, 2019 3:21PM@ Izaki #PCEU
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#Stamblade0 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dalsinthus wrote: »Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
What it does is shoehorns the class into playing a melee build and using a gap closer. For any stamina or magicka ranged PVP build this is a nerf. It does increase their group utility a bit, which is a welcome addition.
Most Stamblades were already melee builds unless you count Snipers and Gankers. So this is a nerf to Magblades indeed, but its a buff to the already very strong Stamblades. It doesn't make any sense to do that.
I'm not sure why we need to debate this, but there are various bow builds for pvp. This includes the ganker / sniper builds you mention as well as close combat archers (see Decimus's youtube channel for nice gameplay videos of this). They are not as popular as melee builds, but they are perfectly legit builds and they are going to be weaker next patch, both due to the loss of buffs on grim focus and the nerf to snipe.
Is it a buff to Stamblades? Yes for teleport strike, mark target, and shade, but at a loss of nice bonuses on other skills like surprise attack and incap. IMO the revised Relentless Focus is a hot mess of a skill and I'm not sure that I'll keep using it (also I'm really hurting for bar space, especially if I need to add mark to my bar).
In the end it is probably a wash, although I do think stamblades will be notably weaker against that heavy armor S&B templar with great mitigation that can heal to full with one cast of breath of life and mistform away whenever they feel pressure. Same goes for stamdens which have it all - burst, healing and mitigation. Builds like that are hard enough to kill on live and the loss of major defile and ready access to fracture is going to really hurt.
3 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Yeah but if say 9 people are hitting that target they are taking 72% more damage instead of your 8% 😁 this game is about team play as it's a mmo and I would say that is way stronger than 8% more dmg from just you0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Yeah but if say 9 people are hitting that target they are taking 72% more damage instead of your 8% 😁 this game is about team play as it's a mmo and I would say that is way stronger than 8% more dmg from just you
that is not how it works, the target is still only taking 8% more damage altogether.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Minor Berserk is additive with other % damage boni (including CP), so in the end you're getting less than 8%. Minor Vulnerability doesn't work that way since its a debuff, you actually get the full 8%. So it is objectively stronger vs any one given target.
However, Nightblades didn't have many AoE abilities slotted in PvP to begin with anyway. Plus since the debuff lasts for 8 seconds, you should have no problem whatsoever spamming Teleport Strike on different targets.
i am fully aware of how minor vulnerability works and how Minor Berserk works. that is what makes me say it is dubious. it is not clear cut as you are saying.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Yeah but if say 9 people are hitting that target they are taking 72% more damage instead of your 8% 😁 this game is about team play as it's a mmo and I would say that is way stronger than 8% more dmg from just you
that is not how it works, the target is still only taking 8% more damage altogether.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Minor Berserk is additive with other % damage boni (including CP), so in the end you're getting less than 8%. Minor Vulnerability doesn't work that way since its a debuff, you actually get the full 8%. So it is objectively stronger vs any one given target.
However, Nightblades didn't have many AoE abilities slotted in PvP to begin with anyway. Plus since the debuff lasts for 8 seconds, you should have no problem whatsoever spamming Teleport Strike on different targets.
i am fully aware of how minor vulnerability works and how Minor Berserk works. that is what makes me say it is dubious. it is not clear cut as you are saying.
So you are trying to tell me if I put vulnerability to make them take 8% more damage that it only gets applied to 1 person? Lol I think you need to check your math here because every person that hits that guy deals 8% more damage.
So that means 1v1 it's 8%
2v1 it's 16% (I deal 8% you deal 8%)
3v1 it's 24% (I deal 8% you deal 8% 3rd deals 8%)
And so on.
It doesn't mean they take 16% more from everyone, they take 16% more damage total.
That 8% adds to the GROUPS DPS instead of just your 8% you use to get.Edited by Kidgangster101 on April 29, 2019 5:35PM0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Minor berserk on Nightblades made it only class in competitive trials. You could do without healers to in this sense. This was necessary balance change.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why take away our Minor Berserk and give Nightblades Minor Vulnerabiilty? On top of that, why tie the Minor Vulnerability to a gap closer (that can literally be spammed, hence the name Spambush ) and have it last for 8 seconds (which is way too long for such a strong debuff to last on an ability that can be spammed)? This way also the case for Suprise Attack: Major Fracture for over 17 seconds on a spammable ability was far too long and far too strong.
An important thing to know is that in group PvE, having or not having access to Minor Berserk never meant much, since Healers would apply Combat Prayer anyway. Nowadays, since pretty much all the raid groups consist of almost entirely Warden and Nightblade DDs, healers don't use Combat Prayer outside of execute phases. Considering how the Grim Focus changes don't nerf PvE Nightblades at all, but rather buff them by giving them a longer duration Relentless and also by giving them extra mitigation (allowing us to have even less health), I just have to ask: why?
Is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in 4 man dungeons since they have Minor Berserk? Or is it because Nightblade DDs were too strong in vMA compared to other classes? Because these are the only 2 places where Nightblades will see a significant decrease in damage.
Either way, this isn't much of a nerf in PvP either, since we will retain the 8% extra damage done. It is actually a buff in PvP, since we get increased group utility. Its also a buff to those brain-numbed dudes who simply spam Teleport Strike on the target that their group is focusing.
I think that this is a pretty negative change.
As a side note: Power Extraction now has the same tooltip as instant cast single target spammables (outside of Surprise Attack, Cutting Dive and Biting Jabs). Not even a joke. Its an undodgeable 8m PBAoE that deals damage 360° around you. And it deals Disease Damage which means that it can proc the Diseased status effect which inflicts Major Defile. The only reason to not use Power Extraction as your main spammable over Surprise Attack in PvP is the higher cost.
As another side note: no one in their right mind will use the new Double Take (or even Shuffle or Forward Momentum for that matter) for the snare/immobilization removal and immunity when you have a skill in the Psijic Skill Line (that I will not name ) that gives you Major Expedition and Minor Force on top of the said immunity. Like seriously. All these skills are starting to become redundant, not to mention the fact that Double Take and Shuffle are identical in every way except for the cost and resource.
So in conclusion: Nightblades will have 2 abilities that are far too strong: Teleport Strike, and for Stamblades, Power Extraction. I thought the intent behind the removal of Minor Berserk and of Major Fracture on Surprise Attack was to nerf Stamblades in PvP. However, its safe to say that pretty much the exact opposite has been done: we have more mitigation on Grim Focus, we have a 8 second duration Minor Vulnerability and we have an undodgeable 8m range PBAoE that deals Disease Damage as our new spammable (which also gives us Ultimate upon use). Sword and Board users will also have Major Fracture on top of all this with Puncture.
This is why I think that the Minor Berserk/Minor Vulnerability trade is awful. Rather than doing all of this and coming up with even stronger things to compensate for this trade, why not just keep everything how it was, except reducing Surprise Attack's Major Fracture to 5 seconds (with Shadow passives included). And better yet, like I keep saying, why not move Surprise Attack to Assassination while moving Blur to Shadow, which will result in the removal of the super strong Shadow passives proccing on Surprise Attack and which will also make Double Take a very viable defensive alternative to the Psijic Skill ( ) since it will instead proc the Shadow passives. This also opens up room for changing Mark Target to something useful. That way we'll get rid off the newly stupidly strong Power Extraction and of the incoming Teleport Strike spamming Nightblade groups in PvP. Because all these changes are aimed at PvP, right?
PS: I still wondering why Wardens are the only class with extremely easy access to Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Berserk. The former is tied to a essential ability on anyone's bar and the latter is provided by simply having a skill slotted on the bar.
They are probably keeping it on Warden because no one plays Warden on PVE at all for DPS. Maybe they are wanting people to play it? Despite the fact that now, they are probably the BiS Stam choice after Necro.
Why would sWarden suddenly be ahead of Nightblade, when Stamblade got buffed while the Warden barely got any changes? The 30 sec duration on Relentless is a pretty big buff actually. Necro doesn't have Minor Berserk, so healers are going to be using it anyway. In my eyes, it looks like its Necro > Nightblade > Warden > Stamplar > rest.
Stamplar? I've heard they are the weakest.
All I know is as someone who mains a sBlade on Xbox, my sWarden results on the patch on this 5.0.1 update was pulling higher than my blade. Maybe it is getting used to the 10 extra seconds and the fact that I wasn't using shade (which I guess is a thing).
And how did you test that? With both classes having Major Fracture and Minor Berserk? Because the Target Dummy doesn't provide any armor debuffs right now.
The Trial dummy doesn't provide major fracture? The new dummy that gives other stuff doesn't provide fracture?
If that is the case, then... well... I did not know that. Obviously SA from Warden gives it, but the dummy doesn't provide it?
No it doesn't provide any armor debuffs at all. You can even see it in your Combat Metrics window. Its bugged.
That's because the debuffs have different IDs that aren't being tracked by Combat Metrics.
You can hit the raid dummy with a 2H ulti and see that it has a bunch of armor debuffs on it:
That was taken during the first week of PTS, so it may have been modified since then.
But it definitely has Major/Minor Fracture/Breach on it, and some other stuff as well, but it doesn't exactly add up so I'm not sure precisely what all is there. But you can't apply another source of Major/Minor Fracture/Breach, so I'm fairly certain those are present. You *can* apply Alkosh, so that's probably not there. I'm not 100% sure about Crusher. It also looks like it has Minor Vulnerability on it, even though Combat Metrics doesn't show it, because I'm not able to apply Minor Vulnerability to the dummy.
From what I've tested and seen others test, stamplars have by far the lowest DPS. Personally I've seen stamdens in general outparsing stamblades (both on the raid dummy and in Sunspire), but it's not a huge difference. The tests I've seen and done say it's something like stamnecro > stamden > stamblade = stamsorc = stamDK >>>> stamplar, but I think the middle 4 classes (stamden, stamblade, stamsorc, stamDK) are all pretty close.
The big difference has been Whirling Blades. Now all DW users have access to a very strong execute which negates the big advantage stamblades have always had.Edited by LiquidPony on April 29, 2019 5:43PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Yeah but if say 9 people are hitting that target they are taking 72% more damage instead of your 8% 😁 this game is about team play as it's a mmo and I would say that is way stronger than 8% more dmg from just you
that is not how it works, the target is still only taking 8% more damage altogether.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Why? They tell you why in the patch notes.. Nightblades traditionally, while masters of high single target damage and a wide toolkit, were given too many potent tools on skills they'd continue using even without added bonuses. We've removed the Minor Berserk bonus from this ability since its overall performance is roughly where it should be comparatively to other abilities, and we've introduced a healing bonus to it to help the Nightblade class gain access to more high-risk staying power. Now, the caster will want to ensure their target hasn't prepared themselves with defenses, otherwise the heal will return an unsubstantial amount. Additionally, they must be in the range of their opponent where they are most susceptible to risk..Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons
"So we're going to remove Minor Berserk and replace it with an even stronger buff (Minor Vulnerability), then we're going to make Mark Target free cause otherwise this ability isn't worth a slot on anyone's bar, then we're going to give Stamblades a 8m Disease Damage PBAoE that deals as much damage as a single target spammable but in a 360° radius."
Yeah. They might be telling you their reasoning but they don't tell you why they decided to give Teleport Strike such an insanely strong debuff.
It is dubious to say that minor vulnerability is stronger then minor berzerk, single target, yes but minor berzerk amps all your damage, so all the targets that are getting hit by you are receiving the amp, the single target minor vulnerability is only for one target.
Minor Berserk is additive with other % damage boni (including CP), so in the end you're getting less than 8%. Minor Vulnerability doesn't work that way since its a debuff, you actually get the full 8%. So it is objectively stronger vs any one given target.
However, Nightblades didn't have many AoE abilities slotted in PvP to begin with anyway. Plus since the debuff lasts for 8 seconds, you should have no problem whatsoever spamming Teleport Strike on different targets.
i am fully aware of how minor vulnerability works and how Minor Berserk works. that is what makes me say it is dubious. it is not clear cut as you are saying.
So you are trying to tell me if I put vulnerability to make them take 8% more damage that it only gets applied to 1 person? Lol I think you need to check your math here because every person that hits that guy deals 8% more damage.
So that means 1v1 it's 8%
2v1 it's 16% (I deal 8% you deal 8%)
3v1 it's 24% (I deal 8% you deal 8% 3rd deals 8%)
And so on.
It doesn't mean they take 16% more from everyone, they take 16% more damage total.
That 8% adds to the GROUPS DPS instead of just your 8% you use to get.
No, what he said is correct. The target takes 8% more damage than they would normally take without minor vulnerability.
It's just that minor berserk in this scenario doesn't increase the damage the target takes from all targets by 8%, only the damage that one person is dealing.
So in your scenario with 9 ppl damaging the target, minor vulnerability increases the target's damage taken by 8%. One person running minor berserk increases the damage the target takes by ~.0089% (assuming all enemies are dealing the exact same amount of damage, outside of the 8% increase for the one with minor berserk).
I have a feeling what you are trying to say is that minor vulnerability on a target increases each group member's damage to that target by 8%, which is not the same thing as that target taking 72% more damage.Edited by twing1_ on April 29, 2019 6:00PM4 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree about most trial groups being Warden and Nightblade DD’s. That may be true for stamina DPS, but in the Magicka side Templar, Sorcerer and sometimes DK are about equal to Magblade. On PTS the other classes are noticeably stronger than Magblades (excluding Mag Warden of course, they are still weakest).
I like the changes to Ambush/Lotus and Surprise Attack because they allow Nightblades to bring some useful debuffs for the group. Ever since they removed the Nightblade off-heals they’ve only been good for high single target DPS, Minor Savagery, and Major Slayer (which requires using a 5 piece set, not really a class buff). Even if it’s only 5% armor reduction, this will be a reason to have at least one Stamblade in any optimized group. And a magblade with Lotus Fan in their rotation could allow a healer to drop IA for another set.
Power extraction does sound off, in the same way that Whirling Blades and Steel Tornado do. A single target spammable should hit harder than an AoE spammable, not sure how this change makes any sense.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Minor berserk on Nightblades made it only class in competitive trials. You could do without healers to in this sense. This was necessary balance change.
Wardens also have Minor Berserk. And Healers applied Combat Prayer in execute phases anyway.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I disagree about most trial groups being Warden and Nightblade DD’s. That may be true for stamina DPS, but in the Magicka side Templar, Sorcerer and sometimes DK are about equal to Magblade. On PTS the other classes are noticeably stronger than Magblades (excluding Mag Warden of course, they are still weakest).
I like the changes to Ambush/Lotus and Surprise Attack because they allow Nightblades to bring some useful debuffs for the group. Ever since they removed the Nightblade off-heals they’ve only been good for high single target DPS, Minor Savagery, and Major Slayer (which requires using a 5 piece set, not really a class buff). Even if it’s only 5% armor reduction, this will be a reason to have at least one Stamblade in any optimized group. And a magblade with Lotus Fan in their rotation could allow a healer to drop IA for another set.
Power extraction does sound off, in the same way that Whirling Blades and Steel Tornado do. A single target spammable should hit harder than an AoE spammable, not sure how this change makes any sense.
Considering that the 5% debuff will apply after all the other debuffs (Crusher, Major Fracture, Alkosh, etc) it will be pretty much meaningless. Plus the conditions for activating that debuff are relatively harsh and won't be available on all the bosses, which means that it would be safer for other stamina DDs to keep as CPs in Piercing as right now on live.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1