No class change token

MornaBaine · February 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This discussion on the other hand is about -class change-!
Not just "learning new skills", but... magically forgeting all your old skills and having them replaced with entirely new skills. Like... a doctor who wakes up one day knowing nothing about physiology and pathology, but for example speaking ten foreign languages instead! A lawyer who suddenly wakes up knowing nothing of legal procedures and cases, but having an intimate knowledge of farming and animal husbandry. Et cetera.

IF a class change token were available I would also utilize, at minimum, a name change token as well as probably an appearance or race change token. My templar "doctor" would cease to exist and my amazeballs necromancer "linguist" would be born! LOL Also, in the realm of roleplay, many people have played sorcs and nightblades as if they were necromancers. So the character is ALREADY a necromancer, so to speak. These folks just want the ability to have the class reflect their roleplay concept fully at last.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I mean, sure, it would not be that hard to implement. Could be done much like racechange, really... refund the skill points, exchange the skills... IF they wanted to do it.
They are on record saying they don't want to.
So its useless to argue about how it could be done.

Actually, they HAVE been trying to convince us this would be too difficult for them to code in. Which speaks poorly of their game design to begin with.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The argument that could be made would be "I'd pay lots for it!" and if enough people would stand up and yell "take my money!", the suits in charge at ZOS might, MIGHT get greedy and tell the developers to exploit that source of profit.

That would be a poll worth making.
Who would drop, say, 5000 crowns on a class change instead of just making another character?
Would it be enough people for ZOS to think it worth the code jockey time to program the feature?
Somehow, I kinda doubt that...
...and there we are.

Count me among those who'd drop 5k crowns on that. ONCE.

Now, if it really IS a matter of them being technically unable to code in the ability to change classes, then they need to do something else. My vote is, along with the coming (free?) character slot they need to do us a solid and gift us with a "grand scroll" that grants max level, full MOUNT TRAINING, all base game sky shards, and max mage guild/fighters guild/undaunted skill lines. JUST ONE. I'd even be fine with it being bound to the Necromancer class.

Taunky · February 2019

A class change token would be absolutely stupid. It's no secret that people are whining over it because they want to make a cool new Necromancer without having to be bothered with *cough* dolmen grinding to 50 *cough*.

What happens if players use the token just to discover that the class they changed to is under-performing? We would then have to deal with players complaining even more because they feel they got 'ripped off'.

No. Save yourself the headache and either make a fresh character or don't bother whatsoever.

Vaerth · February 2019

richo262 wrote: »

No class change token, and they don't intend on it either.

Pretty disappointed with this, I've already got 9 toon, and dont have any intention of making another in the foreseeable future.

I have a magden that used to be good but is now nerfed into nothing more than a writ jockey.

Necro seems pretty interesting from what I've heard but I don't intend on making a new toon for it so I won't be pre-ordering, I'll get the chapter later when it is on special for the zone content.

Ok?

Is this a question? Or you just expressing that you do not wish to level a new toon?

If you do not want to, then do not do it?

Kraezy · February 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Canceling subs ... declarations of not pre-ordering Elsweyr ... empty threats of quitting the game altogether.

Yep, this thread reeks of entitlement ...

The only thing I can smell around here is someone's narcissistic signature, the time and effort you must have put into that !...

@OP Most MMO's don't have a class change feature, why would ESO be any different?

RecktrithiusOediphitry · February 2019

Taunky wrote: »

A class change token would be absolutely stupid. It's no secret that people are whining over it because they want to make a cool new Necromancer without having to be bothered with *cough* dolmen grinding to 50 *cough*.

What happens if players use the token just to discover that the class they changed to is under-performing? We would then have to deal with players complaining even more because they feel they got 'ripped off'.

No. Save yourself the headache and either make a fresh character or don't bother whatsoever.

Are you lacking reading comprehension skill? No one is asking for class change token because of level 50 grind(which, with scrolls and exp events is extremely easy). Some people want to have an option to change their main character class(not only to necro) because otherwise if you want to make new main grind includes:

- collecting all skyshards again
- doing all quests(DLCs included) again
- collecting all lorebooks again
- feeding your mount for 180 days
- leveling all crafing skills and researching traits
- relearning motifs(which can cost fortune)
- leveling Psijic,Dark Brotherhoord, Undauted, Thieves Guild, Vampire/Werewolf, Legerdemain, Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Allianace War, class, armor & weapons skills AGAIN
- doing all vet content once more
- leveling PvP rank from scratch
- all other achievements that are character bound

Come on...

Complaining players after class change... you know we already have race change tokens right? How many people do you see complaining because of bad race change that makes them underperforming? Rotfl.

Kraezy wrote: »

@OP Most MMO's don't have a class change feature, why would ESO be any different?

Wonder why. Maybe because most MMO's have class specific achievements, class specific story, class specific equipment, or even class specific dialogue?(and, because of that it's totally understable why there is no CC tokens) ESO classes on the other hand are build around 3 skill lines. TES games always were about freedom of choice, not asking for adding a natural feature because "bohoo, other mmo's don't have it" is just plain stupid.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

This discussion on the other hand is about -class change-!
Not just "learning new skills", but... magically forgeting all your old skills and having them replaced with entirely new skills. Like... a doctor who wakes up one day knowing nothing about physiology and pathology, but for example speaking ten foreign languages instead! A lawyer who suddenly wakes up knowing nothing of legal procedures and cases, but having an intimate knowledge of farming and animal husbandry. Et cetera.

So basically rededication shrine, something we have since launch? Nice argument.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Who would drop, say, 5000 crowns on a class change instead of just making another character?

Tons of people.

One thing that I don't really understand - why so many of you people are downgrading and trying to ridicule a valid feature request that came from the rest of the fanbase? Some people are even writing rubbish about "entitlement". Asking devs for a feature in a game that some of us are supporting for last 5 years(not only in word but with hard earned money as well) is a proof of "entitlement"?! Are you kidding me?

TheShadowScout · February 2019

MornaBaine wrote: »

IF a class change token were available I would also utilize, at minimum, a name change token as well as probably an appearance or race change token. My templar "doctor" would cease to exist and my amazeballs necromancer "linguist" would be born!

Ah, a -cunning- character idea!

MornaBaine wrote: »

LOL Also, in the realm of roleplay, many people have played sorcs and nightblades as if they were necromancers. So the character is ALREADY a necromancer, so to speak. These folks just want the ability to have the class reflect their roleplay concept fully at last.

Yeah, just like I would have wanted back when warden came out, and I had a sorc and a NB that I made up as my "nature boy/girl" characters... and then had to redo as wardens.
A great source of vexation, and one that experiencing is the main reason I am opposed to new classes, and would have wished for skill lines instead... (not like they listen to me the bloody gits!

)

I would agree that it would be nifty to have. Especially with them adding necromancer as -class- now.
I just don't think they are likely to even consider it.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, they HAVE been trying to convince us this would be too difficult for them to code in. Which speaks poorly of their game design to begin with.

That is just ZOS talk for "takes more effort then we expect to get profit from".
The game is just data. Data that gets altered and adjusted all the time when they fix something, or someone uses a racechange token... etc.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Count me among those who'd drop 5k crowns on that.

Me too, actually.
I am prolly the kind of customer ZOS loves - nerdy shut-in who spends the money on gaming and not carries it to the local pub each weened as do most in these parts... and who does not care about the price tag when a really, really nifty character idea comes up!

But... I reckon a great many people would not be willing to put their money where their mouth is, and demand free such tokens with every class skill rebalancing update... so... I can see why ZOS would not want to go there.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Now, if it really IS a matter of them being technically unable to code in the ability to change classes, then they need to do something else.

Impossible.
As said, characters like everything else in this game are -just- piles of data.
Data that can be altered.
Only question is, how much data needs altering, thus how much effort required to do it.

And when its enough effort that it costs them more then they expect to gain from it...

MornaBaine wrote: »

My vote is, along with the coming (free?) character slot they need to do us a solid and gift us with a "grand scroll" that grants max level, full MOUNT TRAINING, all base game sky shards, and max mage guild/fighters guild/undaunted skill lines. JUST ONE. I'd even be fine with it being bound to the Necromancer class.

That... is actually a pretty decent suggestion.
( Tho I reckon they would totally bundle it up with the "colelctors edition" if they did this without extra charge )
Sadly, I suspect they will not do this either, but instead point towards the crown riding lessons, and crown EX scrolls, and crown research scrolls and so on.

If anything, I would expect them to add "crown skyshard collections" and "crown mage guild compendiums" to temp those of little patience into spending more cash... yes?

ZOS_GregoryV · February 2019

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts for not being constructive, we ask that everyone keep posts civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

MornaBaine · February 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

IF a class change token were available I would also utilize, at minimum, a name change token as well as probably an appearance or race change token. My templar "doctor" would cease to exist and my amazeballs necromancer "linguist" would be born!

Ah, a -cunning- character idea!

MornaBaine wrote: »

LOL Also, in the realm of roleplay, many people have played sorcs and nightblades as if they were necromancers. So the character is ALREADY a necromancer, so to speak. These folks just want the ability to have the class reflect their roleplay concept fully at last.

Yeah, just like I would have wanted back when warden came out, and I had a sorc and a NB that I made up as my "nature boy/girl" characters... and then had to redo as wardens.
A great source of vexation, and one that experiencing is the main reason I am opposed to new classes, and would have wished for skill lines instead... (not like they listen to me the bloody gits! )

I would agree that it would be nifty to have. Especially with them adding necromancer as -class- now.
I just don't think they are likely to even consider it.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, they HAVE been trying to convince us this would be too difficult for them to code in. Which speaks poorly of their game design to begin with.

That is just ZOS talk for "takes more effort then we expect to get profit from".
The game is just data. Data that gets altered and adjusted all the time when they fix something, or someone uses a racechange token... etc.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Count me among those who'd drop 5k crowns on that.

Me too, actually.
I am prolly the kind of customer ZOS loves - nerdy shut-in who spends the money on gaming and not carries it to the local pub each weened as do most in these parts... and who does not care about the price tag when a really, really nifty character idea comes up!

But... I reckon a great many people would not be willing to put their money where their mouth is, and demand free such tokens with every class skill rebalancing update... so... I can see why ZOS would not want to go there.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Now, if it really IS a matter of them being technically unable to code in the ability to change classes, then they need to do something else.

Impossible.
As said, characters like everything else in this game are -just- piles of data.
Data that can be altered.
Only question is, how much data needs altering, thus how much effort required to do it.

And when its enough effort that it costs them more then they expect to gain from it...

MornaBaine wrote: »

My vote is, along with the coming (free?) character slot they need to do us a solid and gift us with a "grand scroll" that grants max level, full MOUNT TRAINING, all base game sky shards, and max mage guild/fighters guild/undaunted skill lines. JUST ONE. I'd even be fine with it being bound to the Necromancer class.

That... is actually a pretty decent suggestion.
( Tho I reckon they would totally bundle it up with the "colelctors edition" if they did this without extra charge )
Sadly, I suspect they will not do this either, but instead point towards the crown riding lessons, and crown EX scrolls, and crown research scrolls and so on.

If anything, I would expect them to add "crown skyshard collections" and "crown mage guild compendiums" to temp those of little patience into spending more cash... yes?

STHAP giving them ideas! LOL Sadly, you're probably right though. I made a poll of this suggestion and people are losing their minds over it...some of them the same people who really want a class change token which, depending on what character you change, could add up to a much larger benefit. Personally I'd prefer the class change token too but ZOS has basically said they lack the ability/skill to make a class change token. And yeah, I don't know that I buy that either tbh, but that's their story. So far.

Also...I see what you did thar. LOL

FauxHunter · March 2019

Any chance we could get someone at ZOS to weigh in on this interview with MeinMMO? It seems to be different from what Rich said during the stream, unless he was saying class change won't happen this year but will in the future?
@ZOS_GinaBruno

https://we-connect-gaming.com/entwickler-verraet-warum-2019-fuer-eso-etwas-ganz-besonderes-wird/amp/

Translated Relevant Bit:

MeinMMO: Many players love new classes, but they do not want a new twink , they have to level up forever. Is there possibly a kind of token for a change of class with existing heroes?

Rich: We have something in the making, but I can not say anything about that yet. But we are working on something and we understand that the players want something in the direction.

Alaztor91 · March 2019

FauxHunter wrote: »

Any chance we could get someone at ZOS to weigh in on this interview with MeinMMO? It seems to be different from what Rich said during the stream, unless he was saying class change won't happen this year but will in the future?
@ZOS_GinaBruno

https://we-connect-gaming.com/entwickler-verraet-warum-2019-fuer-eso-etwas-ganz-besonderes-wird/amp/

Translated Relevant Bit:

MeinMMO: Many players love new classes, but they do not want a new twink , they have to level up forever. Is there possibly a kind of token for a change of class with existing heroes?

Rich: We have something in the making, but I can not say anything about that yet. But we are working on something and we understand that the players want something in the direction.

While it could mean something else like for example a lvl 50 character boost, it's still interesting considering that it was Rich Lambert who answered.

Axmouth · March 2019

Reading forums is not good for my mental health it seems.. Not enough skill points to make a worthwhile character? How could I level new dds and only have the leveling skill points and some from dungeons I ran along the way and not miss anything? You even get a free respec if you find the few thousand gold too expensive.

Why you need to research everything again. Why you need to do writs on every character. And leveling on its own doesn't even take that long.. A few days are enough. Hell, even one day if you really push it.

I mean okay, it'd often be more convenient. But many comments here are past the point of entitlement. Leveling is mindless? How about having to do everything on every new character.. It's like you run on a script.

And apparently doing some quests is mastering the new chapter? "I didn't get the achievements from the new trial, but I did everything". I mean even if you roleplay, you sure didn't master jewelry crafting for one. And it just so happens you missed the harder part?

And honestly, isn't it kinda stupid for one character to be doing everything? Is it even logical? I mean even by fantasy standards.. Yes, it god damn SHOULD be hard to be able to do everything. I sometimes wish there were real drawbacks to over generalizing other than having to do a few delves. That would add meaningful choices. At least skillbars kind of do that in that area.

Singe player games are nice and all, but being able to be everything was always something that irked me. You might notice only the protagonist does that even in fantasy.

I should have no sub so people I see on here don't get to benefit from me paying starts to be more compelling that ZOS mistakes.

BattleAxe · March 2019

A race appearance or name change token is pretty simple to do changing small parts of code on a character now to do a class change you have 3 skill lines to change the coding for vs 1 line (race change). Now with the technical bit addressed on to other things.

I agree on the part of grinding out skyshards guilds and mount training. 13 toons and counting fyi. So I’ve grinded out quite a few times already. Mount training for sure should be account wide. However skyshards and guild levels should be if account wide locked behind completing zone story and guild story.

CombatRecon11B · April 2019

Quite simply, this is a quality of life issue. Excessive grinding upon completion of excessive grinding is not fun. It is contradictory to the concept of a game, which is meant to be fun. It's a chore. It's mind numbing work. Ironically, people point fingers at those requesting a reprieve (class change ability) from the grinding what's been grinded before, as if they are lazy, but a video game where you sit on a couch or in a computer chair to play, is a leisure activity.

At the heart of it all, why is a class change token excluded as an option?

Well, perhaps the answer to this question will be present in the crown store upon the launch of the Elswyer DLC. Why allow players to change class, when you know they'll be spending their money on crown points, and extending their ESO plus memberships to use the newly announced skyshard tokens or what have you?

So ZOS has built a narrow path in front of a payment wall, for players to somewhat escape some of the tedious grinding associated with building new characters, instead of using a class change token.

ZOS provides a service for us gamers. They aren't here to pamper us. We are the fuel for their machine, and that's natural in terms of business. However, we must as freethinking individuals remain aware and critical, due to what's often been the case with game developers. Sometimes they don't have our best interests at heart.

I conclude with this point. Maintain a watchful eye to not allow yourself to be taken advantage of and your patronage to be abused.

TheShadowScout · April 2019

FauxHunter wrote: »

Rich: We have something in the making, but I can not say anything about that yet. But we are working on something and we understand that the players want something in the direction.

Well, if they change their minds on their policy and do something along those lines someday... we shall just have to wait and see, and then talk baout it when they give us some definite info.

Axmouth wrote: »

And honestly, isn't it kinda stupid for one character to be doing everything?

They would not be "doing everything", they would be "retconned" into "always having been a -insert class-"
Just like people can use racechange tokens to retcon characters into "always having been an orc..."

And like mentioned, it would be helpful as they decided to add classes later on. If the option had been available, I would have suffered a lot less vexation when warden came out... and I had to redo my two "nature" characters to the new class better fitting their backstory... (on the other hand, it also allowed me to make improvements I had not considered at first so... eh. Nah. Still vexing.

)

NoFlash · April 2019

Wouldn't class change make a lot of money since everyone would change to fotm?

P.S. i don't want to be a Templar main 😭

barney2525 · April 2019

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Sigh.. I really see no reason to preorder Elsweyr. It took me less than a week to complete Summerset main/side quests and every achievement except the trial ones or the ''repeat the same quest for 30 days'' ones.

There is no new pvp mode like BGs for Morrowind, no new crafting skill like Jewelry Crafting for Summeset. Only a new class that I would love to play IF more Achievements were account bound or if we had class change, a new zone that I'm sure it's gonna be cool for a week at least and apparently a new trial that I will probably do 1 or 2 times if ever.

If you have no plans for class change token ZOS, atleast consider making more achievements account wide.

Good grief. Is there anything you Don't want just handed to you with no effort?

barney2525 · April 2019

SwedishMini wrote: »

Out of all the *** they try to milk this game with in the crown store, a class change token would be the most obvious. But no. They wont for some unexplainable reason.

I dunno. Seems like it would reset skill points, and then all your class skills would be started over at level 1.

XxCaLxX · April 2019

I'm sorry. I fail to understand why it's a grind to get skill points on a new toon. Lets say you could do a class change and change your main to a Necromancer, what are you gonna do then? Load in the game and stand there? Are you not gonna play the game? When you make a new toon you can still get skill points by just playing the game. If its only about crafting, doing writs and reserching then whats it matter what class you are? I'm not against accound wide achievements nor am I against a class change token but none of the reasons given here justify giving a class change token. Only reason i'd want one is when they nerf the hell out of a class I could just swap that toon to a different class until it got nerfed and so on.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · April 2019

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts for not being constructive, we ask that everyone keep posts civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

We want Class Change Tokens in Crown Store.

pretty please?

Ermiq · April 2019

Guys, let them fix at least one of the 5 years old bugs in the game, and only then you can ask them to do a class change.
You must understand, it's a very difficult task for them. They don't know how to do class change and don't break the game again.

Megatto · April 2019

For the people who have like a billion characters. Why? Why do you want multiple characters of the same class? Just make 1 character for each class? That way you shouldn't have a problem with there not being a class change token.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

Abeille wrote: »

There is no argument that anyone can use against class change that doesn't also apply to race change, .

Well not a single MMO alow class change while pretty much all allow race change.

If You don't see the difference betwen a race change and a class change well then I suspect that you'r desire to get class change blurr your judgement.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

Megatto wrote: »

For the people who have like a billion characters. Why? Why do you want multiple characters of the same class? Just make 1 character for each class? That way you shouldn't have a problem with there not being a class change token.

1) Stats pts re-spec cost
2) there isnt enough skill tps to get every skill
3) Re-specing morph everytime you switch role would cost an insane pile cash for me
4) Its faster to level 2 time the same char 1 stam and 1 magicka with enough skill pts to have a fulyl working build then farming the 400+ skill pts on 1 toon
5) having different PvE, PvP set for magcika,tanking,stamina, trial etc on 1 character would requiere a ton more inventory space.
6) RP reason to not be a race/role you feel would be ankward.

P.S. I am strongly agaisnt a class token change.

JadeCoin · April 2019

Unless you know their database architecture, you can't really argue with them when they say that it's technically too difficult, and that it would require too much restructuring of database and legacy code on the back end.

They've told us race was implemented differently from class, and that's the reason race is straightforward to change.

elfantasmo · April 2019

I would prefer alliance change before the faction locks. Class is easy to grind. I mean to all the pve monkeys all you do is the same thing everyday right? NPC mechanics don’t change so grinding class would surely be a nice change. Plus pvp players get the added bonus of actually LTP your class while grinding. Soloing skyreach while grinding is bare minimum of learning class mechanics before pvp

Ermiq · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

There is no argument that anyone can use against class change that doesn't also apply to race change, .

Well not a single MMO alow class change while pretty much all allow race change.

If You don't see the difference betwen a race change and a class change well then I suspect that you'r desire to get class change blurr your judgement.

Well, I know a MMO which provides a class change services: Allods Online. There're also MMOs like Final Fantasy 14 and SkyForge, where you can swich classes with a couple of mouse clicks.
However, I know it totally depends on how a game was developed. If devs were developing their game with a class change possibility in mind, they will add this thing to the game. If the game didn't have a class change by design, then it depends on how the game code and it's architecture was designed and how it all do work. Sometimes it's not a difficult task to add a class change service, and sometimes it's really hard to do. Looking at how ZOS reply on these questions, ESO is certainly the latter.

Facefister · April 2019

richo262 wrote: »

No class change token, and they don't intend on it either.

Pretty disappointed with this, I've already got 9 toon, and dont have any intention of making another in the foreseeable future.

I have a magden that used to be good but is now nerfed into nothing more than a writ jockey.

Necro seems pretty interesting from what I've heard but I don't intend on making a new toon for it so I won't be pre-ordering, I'll get the chapter later when it is on special for the zone content.

"[...] ,and they don't intend on it either."
Once they've realized how they implement it, they'll introduce it. Right now they don't want to admit that they aren't able to implement it.

Kouge · April 2019

They could add something like "class reborn" or some other cheesy name for it all I care, Let us keep all the progress except character level resets to 1. That way people would learn the class as leveling it and we would get to keep all the stuff we had on out mains inc CP and all that.

I myself also will roll a Necromancer cause I love the class fantasy and unfortunately I can't find the incentive to play until the Chapter drops.

agegarton · April 2019

Kraezy wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Canceling subs ... declarations of not pre-ordering Elsweyr ... empty threats of quitting the game altogether.

Yep, this thread reeks of entitlement ...

The only thing I can smell around here is someone's narcissistic signature, the time and effort you must have put into that !...

@OP Most MMO's don't have a class change feature, why would ESO be any different?

Why should it be the same ?

starkerealm · April 2019

Given skyshards for alts are now going into the crown store... and they're talking about migrating over some non-class skill lines, I suspect that's the answer. The ability to migrate stuff onto alts rather than a class change.