2 Hander is now viable in PVE?

srfrogg23 · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/JjrTLMysuOA

look, 2 hands. Can we finally stop using the duel wield / bow meta?

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

BejaProphet · April 2019

As noted eso conversations perpetually suffer from meaning different things by “viable.” If you mean can 2h put out enough dps that your group doesn’t noticeably suffer, yes it is viable.

But by my standards I have found this to be true...

“In every testing scenario my damage per second is lower with 2H verses dual wield, and by a significant margin (about 4K).”

To me, that means not viable. Not that one particular combination of choices doesn’t measure up, but rather in ALL builds that have the goal of high PvE DPS, choosing 2H is directly gimping me for the sake of “flavor/style/aesthetics.”

That to me sufficiently means not viable even though I can put out dps with it which will more than satisfy most groups.

starkerealm · April 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/JjrTLMysuOA

look, 2 hands. Can we finally stop using the duel wield / bow meta?

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

Yeah you can certainly use both and get decent results, but DW is definitely ahead by a lot

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Golden_Cat · April 2019

2H is for heroes who aren't afraid of being out meta

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:A_Hero's_Weapon

starkerealm · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

Nemesis7884 · April 2019

2h might be pretty good for necro? since the class spammable, executive is nice, +crit bonus passive that kinda covers for daggers somewhat...new cleave morph...dk might also work decently and sorc...altough i do think sorc and nb still work better with daggers...

starkerealm · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

Within the specific context of the trial dummies? Yes. The engulfing flames glitch was amusing, but that's been dealt with.

Now, do those dummies reflect actual potential damage outputs for a class? Well, kinda. I mean, they're useful for assessing the absolute damage ceiling of a class, but they don't really represent what a given player can do with that build.

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Dummies are useful for practicing your rotation. That's all. The trial dummies were developed as internal testing tools; those of us that saw them and messed around with them asked to have them on live, and here we are. But, don't mistake that for a credible evaluation of your skill as a player. That's determined by your ability to clear content. (Unless you really are just looking to get the highest score on the dummies that you can, in which case, the Trial Dummies are an entirely different field to compete in.)

Commancho · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Any DPS tests are full of BS - for example what is better - 40K AoE vs 60k single target?

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

Within the specific context of the trial dummies? Yes. The engulfing flames glitch was amusing, but that's been dealt with.

Now, do those dummies reflect actual potential damage outputs for a class? Well, kinda. I mean, they're useful for assessing the absolute damage ceiling of a class, but they don't really represent what a given player can do with that build.

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Dummies are useful for practicing your rotation. That's all. The trial dummies were developed as internal testing tools; those of us that saw them and messed around with them asked to have them on live, and here we are. But, don't mistake that for a credible evaluation of your skill as a player. That's determined by your ability to clear content. (Unless you really are just looking to get the highest score on the dummies that you can, in which case, the Trial Dummies are an entirely different field to compete in.)

I mean I can show you my raid parse from live with 90k+ dps

starkerealm · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean I can show you my raid parse from live with 90k+ dps

Yeah, sure, link it. But, if that turns out to be a multi-target value... those numbers get a little higher than your single-target DPS.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean I can show you my raid parse from live with 90k+ dps

Yeah, sure, link it. But, if that turns out to be a multi-target value... those numbers get a little higher than your single-target DPS.

Lmao...
Manti 91k standen

https://youtu.be/-4gYR-Af_z4

Stamsorc 88k manti

https://youtu.be/y6gXSvnOGTg

80k Stonebreaker stamden

https://youtu.be/KCIU0wqFc0s

78k Serpent stamden

https://youtu.be/2aqUyI5kkJk

Also keep in mind that I'm not even in full damage on stamden on stonebreaker and serpent...I wear morag tong.

D0PAMINE · April 2019

Casdha wrote: »

I don't play a stamDK 2h because it is the best. I play one because I Have Fun with it.

Agreed. I use all weapons except staves on mine. It's the only character I do that with.

Runefang · April 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Dummies are useful for practicing your rotation. That's all. The trial dummies were developed as internal testing tools; those of us that saw them and messed around with them asked to have them on live, and here we are. But, don't mistake that for a credible evaluation of your skill as a player. That's determined by your ability to clear content. (Unless you really are just looking to get the highest score on the dummies that you can, in which case, the Trial Dummies are an entirely different field to compete in.)

You really won't see any confusion, people either post videos (console) or post CMX screen shots (PC) to show their DPS. It'll be obvious which dummy they've parsed on.

And its not about the number they post per se, its how they compare to each other. That's what the trial dummy gives us, the ability to compare apples and apples. It's still not perfect, 100% major force up time is going to skew the dps of high crit builds more than it should. Hircine's veneer is provided despite it never, ever being used. I've seen posts about it's penetration values being off as well. Still it's better than the current method.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

Runefang wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Dummies are useful for practicing your rotation. That's all. The trial dummies were developed as internal testing tools; those of us that saw them and messed around with them asked to have them on live, and here we are. But, don't mistake that for a credible evaluation of your skill as a player. That's determined by your ability to clear content. (Unless you really are just looking to get the highest score on the dummies that you can, in which case, the Trial Dummies are an entirely different field to compete in.)

You really won't see any confusion, people either post videos (console) or post CMX screen shots (PC) to show their DPS. It'll be obvious which dummy they've parsed on.

And its not about the number they post per se, its how they compare to each other. That's what the trial dummy gives us, the ability to compare apples and apples. It's still not perfect, 100% major force up time is going to skew the dps of high crit builds more than it should. Hircine's veneer is provided despite it never, ever being used. I've seen posts about it's penetration values being off as well. Still it's better than the current method.

Just a small correction - hircines is definitely used in endgame raiding

russelmmendoza · April 2019

Smasherx74 wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

2h bow does solid damage but it's not gonna out parse Dw bow.

That youtuber just shows an option for those who want to use a 2h build, esp for stam classes that lack an execute aka stam sorc, stam dk, and stam warden, stamplar. It's honestly really sad that stamblade is the only stam class with a class execute

So if you're talking about the most dmg, then no, you wouldn't use a 2h build

Yeah I'm staying Stamplar duelwield with my 45k dps. I was just posting this for anyone who may want to change it up. Maybe ZOS will buff stams who knows

Please post your dw stamplar 45k parse video.

For tha love of the divines, your gear set up and rotation too, please.

Mathius_Mordred · April 2019

SkerKro wrote: »

Not including, 2H has much better combat animation, looks more fluid and realistic, all versions, ace, mace and swords have amazingly detailed designs. Even the simple basics ones look great.

DW... ugh, sure maybe BiS, but is it really? The animation looks like my 5year old out in the back yard after watching the old 70s spiderman show while swatting at a fly if it was animated in the 1800s using rocks. All DW items, all... but Cadwell's "Dagger" just looks horrid and plain. Probably why shields look so much better as well, to distract from how terrible 1handed weapons look.

Sure, DW may put out more dps, but, is it worth looking like a broken manichean ballerina with a broom shoved in your "storage bag"?

Yeah, going to agree with all of that. I've been using 2H for the last month from DW and what I notice the most is it's far more viable when resources are at a premium. DW does more DPS but I always struggle to maintain stam and have to slot in a lot of heavy attacks to recover. The new changes, should they stay as they are, look very promising and should more or less close the gap here.

Karmanorway · April 2019

Just play how u want to, i have tried every set and weapon types in the game on my main, and had fun af doing it, my favorites is a few spin2win/Vicious Death setups, especially in BGs x)

starkerealm · April 2019

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

When I tested 2h on a stam sorc I got 81k...my dw sorc got 87k...they are still 5k apart...

You still got over 80k on both, lol.

That's on the trial buff dummies. In that context, those numbers aren't that impressive.

Non warden/necro classes currently top out below or at the 90k. Warden tops out at 95k and necro with cheese tops out at 100-103

Those dummies start pre-cheesed. At least they fixed the engulfing flames bug, so they're not stacking endlessly.

Those numbers are legit

So, if someone says they can do 80k DPS, they're full of ****. I mean, we're going to see that now, with confusion over which kind of dummy people were parsing on, but dummy parses were already an inaccurate representation of how much damage you could do.

Dummies are useful for practicing your rotation. That's all. The trial dummies were developed as internal testing tools; those of us that saw them and messed around with them asked to have them on live, and here we are. But, don't mistake that for a credible evaluation of your skill as a player. That's determined by your ability to clear content. (Unless you really are just looking to get the highest score on the dummies that you can, in which case, the Trial Dummies are an entirely different field to compete in.)

You really won't see any confusion, people either post videos (console) or post CMX screen shots (PC) to show their DPS. It'll be obvious which dummy they've parsed on.

And its not about the number they post per se, its how they compare to each other. That's what the trial dummy gives us, the ability to compare apples and apples. It's still not perfect, 100% major force up time is going to skew the dps of high crit builds more than it should. Hircine's veneer is provided despite it never, ever being used. I've seen posts about it's penetration values being off as well. Still it's better than the current method.

Just a small correction - hircines is definitely used in endgame raiding

Pre-Summerset Hircine's was... "Less so."

@Runefang, there will always be confusion. You vastly overestimate intellectual capacity of some raiders if you think it's impossible to confuse them.

starkerealm · April 2019

[removed quoted comments]

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Also keep in mind that I'm not even in full damage on stamden on stonebreaker and serpent...I wear morag tong.

This is kinda the point though, isn't it? The numbers those trial dummies present are what you could theoretically present as part of a "perfect" team. Not so much just a personal effort. I'm honestly not trying to move the goal posts on you here. Kudos to you and the guys you're running with, but that's not, just, your damage, it's the product of a team effort.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

[removed quoted comment]

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Also keep in mind that I'm not even in full damage on stamden on stonebreaker and serpent...I wear morag tong.

This is kinda the point though, isn't it? The numbers those trial dummies present are what you could theoretically present as part of a "perfect" team. Not so much just a personal effort. I'm honestly not trying to move the goal posts on you here. Kudos to you and the guys you're running with, but that's not, just, your damage, it's the product of a team effort.[/quote]

this is an MMO...multiplayer is in the name...obviously it wouldnt make sense for the damage to be just you, its a combination of buffs and debuffs, just the same as if a tank doesnt run alkosh im losing damage, not sure what that has to do with anything. You have stated that 80/90k isnt happening, I showed you several examples of it happening. that was the entirety of my point...

Ragnarock41 · April 2019

Always been viable, but not competitive. There is still quite a large gap between dw and 2 handers. What ZOS could do to improve it would be remove the damage nerf on wrecking blow and maybe buff executioner a bit.

Edit: And passives, 2H passives are not that good for sustained fights.

Nemesis7884 · April 2019

i think only passives have to be slightly changed to be honest...and they said on eso live that they were looking into passives after they are done with skills...

starkerealm · April 2019

[removed quoted comments]

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

this is an MMO...multiplayer is in the name...obviously it wouldnt make sense for the damage to be just you...

And yet, when we're talking about the trial dummy parses, it is, "just you."

Hell, even in this case, that's not, "your damage," that's your damage after the others helped. And, to your credit, you're helping them. This isn't knocking you as a player, but it is worth remembering that's not a solo effort. When you see people bragging about how they're able to pull 80k, that's not, "oh, yeah, no, I can do that." It is them presenting it as if it were a solo effort. And, with the trial dummies, it is a solo effort.

hedna123b14_ESO · April 2019

[removed quote]
No its not just you on the trial dummy its dps with full raid buffs...simulating a close to raid buff/debuff environment. As far as it being their dps it IS their dps..because not every player can manage 90s on a dummy and especially in the trial...they earned it..

Grianasteri · April 2019

I have a 2H build that I use almost exclusively for PVE content. It has the joint highest DPS of my 10 characters.

2H is fantastic for PVE, dealing with adds is a delight, dealing with single target enemy is a delight. Thats why I use the character, its great fun and it works.

ccfeeling · April 2019

What ?
80k plus ?

Viable for sure .

I can't even hit over 50k with DW

starkerealm · April 2019

[removed quote]

No its not just you on the trial dummy its dps with full raid buffs...simulating a close to raid buff/debuff environment. As far as it being their dps it IS their dps..because not every player can manage 90s on a dummy and especially in the trial...they earned it..[/quote]

No, they didn't. You didn't, "earn," your Alkosh and crusher uptime from the tank. Just like you didn't earn your combat prayer uptime from your healer. You did not earn other people doing their jobs. It made you look better, but you did not "earn" the DPS you're presenting.

Like I said, your group performed admirably, and that's something to be proud of, but saying, "I earned my DPS," no, you didn't. Your team worked together. Their contributions helped you to perform better than you would have without them. That's not yours to claim alone.