Do not play a magicka character in pvp for this reason

fred4 · April 2019

As a magicka nightblade, stay at a short distance from your own RAID group. You are really only susceptible to negates, if you ball up with your group. If you are truly solo, when exactly do you find yourself in a negate? I also love this quote:

CompM4s wrote: »

You cannot solo a ball group. The whole point of a ball group is that they are organized and beat larger zergs. How can anyone have any expectation to solo a ball group?? Take it easy on the whole 1v1,000,000 expectation.

You want to 1vX, you have your work cut out, but arguably a magsorc is as capable as any stamina character, while a magblade (ganker) allows you to pick and choose where and when you engage. I certainly do not worry about negates knocking me out of cloak, because I'm rarely in a location where that would happen. I can really only think of keep and resource towers and NPC negates.

Rule #1 of solo play: You need to draw enemies away from their zerg, thinning them out and leading them to a favorable location (rocks). The only exception, on the magicka front, is possibly the build I play, a melee Caluurion magblade ganker, which plays more like a stamblade. Next best option is a streaking sorc. Other classes probably all need to use Mist Form. I know these mobility tools won't help you to escape a negate, but use them so you never find yourself in the middle of a group combat zone in the first place, but only around the edges. In more loose, unorganised brawls there are also still battle lines. You typically die, if you don't keep track of that and find yourself in the wrong place.

I love Deep Thoughts to solve the stamina issues on magicka characters. Other solutions include using the warden's Bull Netch, which includes stam return while blocking or sprinting. Amber Plasm and Shacklebreaker are both worn in PvP for their stamina sustain, albeit they are less effective than the above. Prisoner is an interesting back bar option that gives some stamina sustain and helps with sprinting, although I prefer that set on stamina characters. On a magicka nightblade, Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions work exceptionally well, just before you engage. I don't think NPCs even try to negate me, if I have that potion active.

Ahtu · April 2019

I agree stam is the current meta as they are more mobile than mag users.

Blaqk_EyeD · April 2019

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Time to git gud I guess.

This is the most annoying thing to hear. Someone literally told me this in cyro chat when I commented that PvE was going to be impossible today because we literally only had our main gates. Dude from my same faction told me to "get good" when I just logged in and he was loosing his ass for God knows how long. Maybe he, and you should take your own advice.

LoveForElderScrolls · April 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Ball groups in pvp are using more and more sorcerers in their groups to use negate therefore I'm am not able to use magicka abilities when my health goes down and magicka players don't have a heal over time like vigor. How should I fight a ball group as a solo player when I get ulti dumped and my abilities do not work and I can't heal myself because I'm negated and when I move out of the negate there's another negate! Now add to this the snares problem and it's worst for magicka players because they don't have that much stamina recovery. Seriously how do you expect a magicka player to fight a million people when magicka abilities do not work? Time to play hybrid I guess.

If you're struggling with Negate, I'd lower my expectations of being able to fight a ball group solo.

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

LoveForElderScrolls · April 2019

People that reply to this topic about soloing a ball group. A single player is able to change the whole dynamic of a fight. The problem is not that they are many the problem is that they have many negates(like 8 negates) and that stops magicka players from doing anything because there's so many negates. Now if I played a stamina toon that would be different. So stay on topic and talk about magicka players and negates. The problem I described is not a huge problem but it's still a problem and it's for magicka players. One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2019

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

I don't like to burst your bubble but if you're not zerg hugging, that organized group won't drop 8 negates on you. Try standing a bit to the side or behind the ball group you're surfing with.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

It's more expensive because the ingredients are rarer.

LoveForElderScrolls · April 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

I don't like to burst your bubble but if you're not zerg hugging, that organized group won't drop 8 negates on you. Try standing a bit to the side or behind the ball group you're surfing with.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

It's more expensive because the ingredients are rarer.

A 24 man group dropped at least 5 negates on 8 people. You want to call that 8 man a zerg! ok! Plus I remember stamina gold food was cheaper than it is now but magicka gold food hasn't changed so that can't be related to ingredients.

Iskiab · April 2019

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

I don't like to burst your bubble but if you're not zerg hugging, that organized group won't drop 8 negates on you. Try standing a bit to the side or behind the ball group you're surfing with.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

It's more expensive because the ingredients are rarer.

A 24 man group dropped at least 5 negates on 8 people. You want to call that 8 man a zerg! ok! Plus I remember stamina gold food was cheaper than it is now but magicka gold food hasn't changed so that can't be related to ingredients.

You’re only looking at your group size saying stuff like this. A large group rarely if ever only fights one smaller group, usually it’s multiple guilds at once.

The only guild I can think of who does it successfully is animosity, they can fight in a smaller group against larger ones.

Sometimes a larger group will use ultimates against 8 people solely because you’re fighting on multiple sides. You’ll try to quickly overcome one side so you can swing back and fight on the other side. If you’re complaining about that you’re essentially complaining that larger groups fight back when you attack them.

fred4 · April 2019

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

I don't like to burst your bubble but if you're not zerg hugging, that organized group won't drop 8 negates on you. Try standing a bit to the side or behind the ball group you're surfing with.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

It's more expensive because the ingredients are rarer.

Plus I remember stamina gold food was cheaper than it is now but magicka gold food hasn't changed so that can't be related to ingredients.

The first week of the anniversary dropped a crap ton of Mother of Pearl, which temporarily lowered the prices. I got two batches of 20 myself.

I'm saying the first week, because everyone did their crafting writs on multiple characters, as evidenced by the prices of Prophet motif pages, which plummeted to about 200 gold. Far fewer people have been doing week 2 and week 3, which is why Lyris and Tharn pages have levelled out at 15K to 20K thus far.

With prices of Artaeum vs Citrus Fillet at 2:1 (not 100:1, like the motif pages) I don't think it's strong evidence of there being more stamina players.

fred4 · April 2019

I don't think anyone would argue that stamina groups aren't stronger. On PC EU there is a guild specialising in running stamdens and a few stamsorcs. They cover the ground with Caltrops, move in unison and push out Subterranean, Negates, Dawnbreakers and spin to win. Very hard to fight against. I watched a YouTuber some time ago, who had come up exactly with that group composition, which he considered optimal for taking on larger groups. Negates were his reason for sticking exclusively with stamina. Dodge rolling mitigating all (except AOE) damage and, therefore, scaling well in larger fights is often quoted as another. That said, your knee-jerk reaction reflected in the title of this thread doesn't feel on the mark. You admit that yourself, when you say this: "The problem I described is not a huge problem."

As against the above, I would also offer my own experience. I play a melee magicka nightblade. It's not a popular playstyle. Many people say it's not viable or at least not competitive. "RIP" magblade threads are plentiful. The truth, as ever, is more complicated and nowhere near as dire. Suffice it to say that I am happy with my melee magblade, even in the current live patch.

Danksta · April 2019

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Well try to fight a 24 man group as a magicka player when they have at least 8 sorcerers and 8 negates and then come here and tell me about expectations.

I don't like to burst your bubble but if you're not zerg hugging, that organized group won't drop 8 negates on you. Try standing a bit to the side or behind the ball group you're surfing with.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One fact: stamina gold food is more expensive than magicka gold food which is one indication that playing stamina is more favorable than playing magicka.

It's more expensive because the ingredients are rarer.

A 24 man group dropped at least 5 negates on 8 people. You want to call that 8 man a zerg! ok! Plus I remember stamina gold food was cheaper than it is now but magicka gold food hasn't changed so that can't be related to ingredients.

8 man group qualifies you as a solo player now??

technohic · April 2019

Hmm surprised its that effective on a solo from a ball group as its stationary. Maybe don't dive into the blob of enemies?

I'm more annoyed by it being spammed by mage guards. Between it and old version of eclipse, it's not really challenging. Just obnoxious

Luckylancer · April 2019

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

You cannot solo a ball group. The whole point of a ball group is that they are organized and beat larger zergs. How can anyone have any expectation to solo a ball group?? Take it easy on the whole 1v1,000,000 expectation.

Well, you can solo the dungeons why not pvp? Also even if you're not solo it still feels bad that you can't do anything during combat because the whole ground is filled with Negate.

You want to solo trials dude...

Anyron · April 2019

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Ball groups in pvp are using more and more sorcerers in their groups to use negate therefore I'm am not able to use magicka abilities when my health goes down and magicka players don't have a heal over time like vigor. How should I fight a ball group as a solo player when I get ulti dumped and my abilities do not work and I can't heal myself because I'm negated and when I move out of the negate there's another negate! Now add to this the snares problem and it's worst for magicka players because they don't have that much stamina recovery. Seriously how do you expect a magicka player to fight a million people when magicka abilities do not work? Time to play hybrid I guess.

Negate should be nerfed in pvp. Its only fair considering they took the reflect from wings and their whole argument was because it shut down a certain builds. Negate basically does the same thing...shuts down skills/builds.

While i agree on you with it shut down other magicka builds i disagree it should be removed completely. Because of:

1) negate has really small radius ( dodge roll to right direction and you are out of it)
2) it can only be placed on one place (cannot be shifted). Maybe if your wings worked same it would not be nerfed.
3) its ultimate. It cannot be spammed
4) compared to other ultimates it has high cost. 192 ultimate can take you some time to fill
5) it works only to magicka non-ranged skills(if ranged is out and projectiles go through negate its not negated). Doesnt work on stamina or Magicka projectiles/spells going through that negate
(to make it simple - if negate is between healer (whos using Direct heals like Bol) and target, target still can be healed. Even when heals must pass through negated area)

Iskiab · April 2019

Yes leave negate please. I’m on the receiving end, but even I can see how boring some of these suggested nerfs would make the game.

Some people won’t he happy until healing’s gone and every class just has 1 button that’s called damage. Even then they’d probably bring up that passives are different.

Ashamray · April 2019

Negate has a very obnoxious thing - you can be out of it already but delay of silence is on you.