Giving stamsorc identity is fine, but there's no need to just flat out buff it as you've suggested.

Making the clannfear scale to stam would be a start and a decent buff

Waffennacht wrote: »

Giving stamsorc identity is fine, but there's no need to just flat out buff it as you've suggested.

Making the clannfear scale to stam would be a start and a decent buff

I think a stam clannfear is one of the least popular choice among stamsorcs. Most of us do not wish to be a pet class

IMHO stamsorc need a slight buff through utility and some identity but it should not be a major buff (even if that'd be fun, it would not be fair)

Passives are lacking, identity is lacking, except for hurricane which is not scary at all.
Amplitude buff is not compensating the loss of implosion passive, that synergized very well with bleeds/dots builds

I don't think plain numerical buffs, especially in that quantity, are the way to archieve identity.

We've already got 20% stam regen, the issue is it's accessibility. Like you rightfully mentioned, Bound Armor's active component is the main culprit here. Dead weight mostly.

If you want to turn the clannfear into a real tanking utility skill it doesn't matter what it's damage scales on. And I doubt tanks like to invest even more stam for using it. Just give it a debuff like maim, even tho it would be very similar to shadowrend.

However, it's strange that the stamsorc class heal relies on crit strikes without any class option to increase crit chance (like it does to the magic counterpart). It doesn't seem well rounded.

More Passive synergy. Crystal Slap. Class sources of major/minor buffs IE Major Fracture, Savagery.

We don't need more damage what we need is bar space and and reason to take us in PvP groups/Trials. Removal of Implosion made Stam sorc a poor choice in PvP group comp. Disruptor Tank is far superior to Stamina for the use of Negate. The class doesn't do anything better.

Accessible passives and stam damage skill(nonUlt and not a spammable) are the main 2 things I want.

Stam curse, melee frag, stam fury...something along those lines (not all). Dont need big changes and definitely dont want to see pets.

I think the class will be better if they offer some of the underutilized morphs to stam.

First of all, I like that the class lacks a spammable as a whole, but one of the identities of magsorcs is crystal fragments, which gives an rng/dynamic feel to the rotation in pve, and nice pvp burst. I think crystal blast should be changed to a stamina version of crystal fragments. It should be baseline a cast time stamina ability, with a chance to become instant cast and cost less from use of stamina abilities.

This would boost damage, and let the class have a feel and identity distinct from other stamina classes in pve, and offer some nice pvp burst combinations. I think the range should be reduced to 15 yards, but add a small execute increase based on enemy health to give the class the execute feel and even offer the possibility of choosing to cast time it over just waiting for procs in the last 10% of a bosses' health. I think this would allow them to have a small bit of execute feel without having to rework or give up the well done mages wrath morphs, nor give a stam class too much of a ranged execute for pvp.

I think Power Overload's effects need to be baked into the base of Overload itself, and Power Overload to be changed to physical damage where light attacks do bleed damage similar to werewolf that don't overwrite, and heavy attacks hit all enemies in a 15m range, both with appropriately balanced bonus damage. They need to scale with all light and heavy attack increasing effects including CP, bound armaments, 2her effects, etc, and should restore stamina like energy overload does magicka.

Would need to be balanced competitively for a rotation to allow for a lower sustain build to be viable using this ultimate, but still consider running storm attro for the major berserk in higher sustain builds and trial situations.

Lastly,

I think the Dark Magic line is a little underutilized in general for sorcs, and there needs to be some serious look at the combination of Daedric Mines, Encase, and Rune Prison. Its not OP, but its redundant to have so many CCs and immobilizing effects in one tree. Perhaps one of these skills could be redesigned to offer something new to the sorc toolkit in general, without impacting the class balance or significantly nerfing the class in pvp. A skilled pvp sorc would need to offer their perspective on this, as I am not qualified to comment here, but it does seem very redundant design without giving much in the way of benefit to the class or interesting mechanical effects.

I was thinking perhaps combine daedric tomb and rune prison mechanically, perhaps something closer to the dynamic going on between the nightblade morphs of mass hysteria and manifestation of terror, where you have to pick between two really distinct and interesting options that offer CC in two gameplay modes that are both powerful, while leaving the immobilization to encase. This would free up a sorc ability to be designed around group utility, maybe something to help the healing/tank toolkits in pve and large group utility in pvp.

Some spaghetti on the wall here:

Daedric Mines Renamed to Daedric Prison
Stuns a target for 3s 28 meter range

Daedric Minefield
ability becomes an AoE targeted trap with the current 3 volatile mines on daedric tomb that arm in 3s, and explode stunning up to 3 targets with each explosion for 3s.

Daedric Tomb
Stuns a target for 3s 28 meter range, and if the target breaks free or the stun ends before full duration, you gain a buff that lasts for 30s, that causes the next target to deal damage to you to be stunned for 3s, unable to be dodged or blocked.

Replace Rune Prison with:

Runic Ward:
Adds minor evasion to the user and up to 6 allies within 8m for 20s.

Enveloping Runes:
Adds minor evasion to the user and up to 12 allies within 22m for 30s

Runic Malady:
Adds minor evasion to the user and up to 6 allies within 8m for 20s.
Additionally adds major uncertainty (reduces critical rating by ~1500) to enemies within 8m for 10s

---

Note, the above design is based on the frost armor ability from wardens in concept. It may or may not affect PvE trial design, but it does use an existing mechanic already in game for wardens (minor evasion), and would be worth slotting on non dps sorcs in pve, putting more of a reason to run a sorc tank or healer, and sorcs would definitely be running it in pvp. Major or Minor Uncertainty, the duration and minor uncertainty is already in the game on poisons, but underutilized, and the effect could be strong damage reduction in pvp for a group without being overpowered. Ideally these changes would need input from more experienced sorcerors.

These changes would not significantly boost stamina sorcerors in a way that would make them overpowered, rather I'm simply trying to suggest increasing their toolkit and identity and maybe gently nudge them up a little in pve dps position to be closer to stamplar and stamden.

Any thoughts?

I can't help but to feel furious after looking into the necro's skills in detail.

Zos proved they know and can make a well themed class with usefull skills all around, yet sorc and the older ones get nothing.

A simple Overload change could work pretty well for a class buff that adds utility and rewards the stam weapons you are using. Making a morph of Overload that adds X physical damage to your light and heavy attacks for your melee weapons. But have each weapon type also enhanced by this ability. So Two handers increase the cleave damage by # of players hit. Dual wield light and heavy attacks are faster. Sword and Shield boosts the damage of a shield bash and light attacks, and adds a longer stun to the shield bash.

This way, the weapon you are using is augmented by the ultimate. Provides meaningful reasons to want to run different weapons depending on the goal of the build.

Ralamil wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

I can't help but to feel furious after looking into the necro's skills in detail.

Zos proved they know and can make a well themed class with usefull skills all around, yet sorc and the older ones get nothing.

@rafaelcsmaia: I actually got a chance to speak with Brian Wheeler (incredibly nice guy, I was quite happy to have gotten the opportunity) at one of their recent events, and I asked him about whether older classes would ever be "brought up to speed," so to speak, with Warden and Necromancer, both of which are, in my opinion, their best-designed classes. Both of the latter classes have solid toolkits, laid out in solidly-themed trees, while all of the older classes are lacking in these regards to varying degrees.

His response to me (and I am paraphrasing and filtering this through my own interpretations... plus some time has passed... so by no means assume this is 100% accurate or reflective of what I was actually told) was that it was a thing in the back of their mind, but that it would require an extreme amount of care to rework older classes in a major way because of the history they have to them, and they need to be careful to not *** off older players who are used to the way classes play and feel, all while maintaining balance. I also inferred that, like with most other projects in the world, there's more emphasis on working on the new stuff that's going to drive interest and profit rather than paying tech debt (though, to their credit, ZOS has been tackling a LOT of tech debt with the combat system of late).

What I think it comes down to is that Warden and Necromancer are so well designed because they learned from both their successes and mistakes with the older classes. I agree that it's disappointing that there hasn't yet been more done to tweak the older classes, but at least ZOS is well aware that people are quite interested in seeing changes made, and they have at least some initial thoughts on the matter, even if it's not necessarily going to be a thing that happens any time soon (if ever... but we can hope).

@Ralamil I understand its an enormous amount of work and its nice to know they actually know the older classes are messed up,

But thats not enough unfortunatelly.

They cant forget that from a marketing standpoint, its less costly to retain a customer than to get new ones, and most people that play since beta have spent enormous amount of money in this game and most likely have a main from the old 4 classes.

Leaving those people behind will screw them up in the long run, of that im sure about.

NyassaV wrote: »

While Stamsorc remains a powerful class it does lack a lot of identity. A few good stam sorcs talked about it and came down to the following changes as things they'd like to see for the class:

1. Crit Surge scaling off of precise strikes and any other stam alternatives
2. Increase damage to hurricane or at least the initial two ticks as it gets refreshed before the third tier really has a chance to hit. That or make it last longer so it doesn't need to be refreshed as often and will have more time in it's third time expanding Also, it giving group minor expedition.
3. Stamina clan fear morph for additional healing or tankiness.
4. Exploitation Passive gives minor savagery if stam is your higher resource
5. Capacitor Also give stam regeneration.
6. Stamina version of atronarch that follows you around doing aoe damage
7. Stamina version of overload. Gives major expedition when active and attacks have a shorter range than there magicka counterparts

Bound armaments blocking reduction is underused and instead of the blocking bonus we'd love it to apply another small aoe around us, similar to blade cloak or a more useful passive as we're severely lacking in the buff and debuff department. A stam version for crystal blast as it's unused in pve and pvp. They could give the stun to frags and us a stam morph and it would make everyone happy and I'd love to take advantage of the blood magic passive. I'd say it'd have to be fairly short range, maybe 12 meters. For streak most would love to see the delay taken away when casting.

Of course though these ideas would need to be balanced accordingly! Discuss!

All Stamsorc needs is a roll-back on crit surge nerf. It was a very fun solo-class to play...now I barely see any solo stam sorc in PVP. Just another class that is totally group dependent.

Yes crit surge overperformed...it needed a little bit of adjustment like removing AOE from the proc-ing table, but definitely not a flat heal with cool-down - it is boring and close to useless - especially in this high burst meta.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Giving stamsorc identity is fine, but there's no need to just flat out buff it as you've suggested.

Making the clannfear scale to stam would be a start and a decent buff

I didnt suggest it I just put it out there for people. Don't shoot the messenger!

BRING BACK OVERLOAD BAR

Definitely needs something.

Didgerion wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

While Stamsorc remains a powerful class it does lack a lot of identity. A few good stam sorcs talked about it and came down to the following changes as things they'd like to see for the class:

1. Crit Surge scaling off of precise strikes and any other stam alternatives
2. Increase damage to hurricane or at least the initial two ticks as it gets refreshed before the third tier really has a chance to hit. That or make it last longer so it doesn't need to be refreshed as often and will have more time in it's third time expanding Also, it giving group minor expedition.
3. Stamina clan fear morph for additional healing or tankiness.
4. Exploitation Passive gives minor savagery if stam is your higher resource
5. Capacitor Also give stam regeneration.
6. Stamina version of atronarch that follows you around doing aoe damage
7. Stamina version of overload. Gives major expedition when active and attacks have a shorter range than there magicka counterparts

Bound armaments blocking reduction is underused and instead of the blocking bonus we'd love it to apply another small aoe around us, similar to blade cloak or a more useful passive as we're severely lacking in the buff and debuff department. A stam version for crystal blast as it's unused in pve and pvp. They could give the stun to frags and us a stam morph and it would make everyone happy and I'd love to take advantage of the blood magic passive. I'd say it'd have to be fairly short range, maybe 12 meters. For streak most would love to see the delay taken away when casting.

Of course though these ideas would need to be balanced accordingly! Discuss!

All Stamsorc needs is a roll-back on crit surge nerf. It was a very fun solo-class to play...now I barely see any solo stam sorc in PVP. Just another class that is totally group dependent.

Yes crit surge overperformed...it needed a little bit of adjustment like removing AOE from the proc-ing table, but definitely not a flat heal with cool-down - it is boring and close to useless - especially in this high burst meta.

I understand the thought but I don't like it because it makes the class even less rounded.

Just imagine, you've got 2 (non ulti) class damage skills that scale on your stam (Hurricane + Streak now), but neither procs your main class heal. Also, said main class heal depends greatly on your crit chance but there is no class skill or passive to increase said chance.

Doesn't sound too good for me. With Cleave becoming somewhat of a spam it wouldn't count as well. Does Shrouded Dagger count as AoE? Effectively forcing us into ST DoTs (PI, Rendings, Trap) and Flurry. As if stamsorcs build diversity wasn't already hugely impacted by weapon skills due to the lack of anything classwise.