Awe we don't get many happy threads around especially lately. Thanks for sharing.
Deathlord92 wrote: »My main has always been a Breton stamblade just play what you enjoy 😊
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
Salvas_Aren wrote: »Uhm, wait? Are you talking about classes or races?
Talking about races, I think they messed things quite up. Why would the Altmer have a fake regen for the weaker damage attribute instead of the real magicka regen?
Why is the pay-for race, Imperial, a ridiculous carboncopy of the Nord? They have literally taken the Erial and just left the Imp.
Bouldercleave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
As I recall Dubious Camoran is Stam, health and Stam recovery so your information appears to be incorrect. Stamina does indeed have a purple drink that works VERY well in most cases.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
I had hoped from my OP that it was obvious I was largely referring to PVP (no-CP PVP especially), but I guess it wasn’t. There will always be a BIS race and copy-pasted meta gear setup for PVE, sadly, because straying from the meta is verboten in PVE. Reason umpteen and one why I no longer run dungeons and trials. I enjoy theory crafting and playing against unpredictable opponents, but to each their own.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
As I recall Dubious Camoran is Stam, health and Stam recovery so your information appears to be incorrect. Stamina does indeed have a purple drink that works VERY well in most cases.
This is mistype obviously, i.e. copy from witchbrew since they are nerfed exactly the same one for magicka, and one from stamina.MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVP race doesn't matter that much because efficiency is much more skill-dependent then in PVE. I bet it's like 80% skill, 20% build, 0.1% race.
In PVE it's clearly 3 BiS races - main tank Nord, stamdps/offtank - Orc, magdps/healer - Breton.
All others are behind by very small, but still notable margin and new food as we see it on PTS now only amplifies BiS races further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470344/new-food-doesnt-fix-balance
1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats 9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.
3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.
Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.
I had hoped from my OP that it was obvious I was largely referring to PVP (no-CP PVP especially), but I guess it wasn’t. There will always be a BIS race and copy-pasted meta gear setup for PVE, sadly, because straying from the meta is verboten in PVE. Reason umpteen and one why I no longer run dungeons and trials. I enjoy theory crafting and playing against unpredictable opponents, but to each their own.
I agree that PVP-wise there is no problem with racial balancing. But were there problems with it before U21? Some health recovery stacking builds got a hit, ganking got a hit, but that's all. They nerfed playstyle, not races themselves since health recovery and damage from stealth was replaced with general stamina/magicka/health for those races.
Wrathstone has been out for a while now, as you all know. Initially, some of the racial changes seemed underpowered, even bizarre...
After re-rolling two of my characters as “off-meta” magicka characters, though, I can honestly say that I don’t think races have ever been more balanced — especially in no CP PVP. In fact, I would venture to say that there is no clear BIS race for any role in no-CP PVP anymore. Some races may have a slight edge, build depending, but since racial bonuses have been re-designed to function like gear set bonuses, you don’t absolutely HAVE to run stereotypical “magicka” races (and vice versa) to be effective; rather, you can use racial bonuses to fill in any gaps in your build.
Case in point: my mDK is now a Nord. Why? She’s in melee range most of the time, and needs to be a little tanker than ranged magicka classes (hence nord resistances, max health). Since she’s in melee range, she also needs to break free and dodge roll quite often (max stamina). She lacks a class execute as well and relies on Leap to serve that function, so the Nord’s ultimate regen also plays an important part in the build. This character hits almost as hard as my stereotypical magicka characters, and can survive well without having to invest in defensive gear.
In short, this thread is a belated thanks to the devs for achieving what I thought was impossible: racial choices that finally feel optional and allow you to round out a build, rather than define it. I’ve since rerolled my Templar as a melee Khajiit magickat in anticipation of Elsweyr (focused on sustain and crit jabs/crit heals), and am having a blast with it as well. If you’re on the fence about straying from meta racial choices, I’d encourage you to give it a go — you may be pleasantly surprised by the outcome.