"New" food doesn't fix balance

MartiniDaniels

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

mcagatayg

They are trying to fix it with food instead of changing racial passives, cuz they are afraid of backlash. Thats the only logical reason i can think of.

Azyle1

All I care is that my Khajiit can still run Gold Food and hit 16K HP on my Stamina characters.

Iskiab

I don’t think this has anything to do with racial changes. It will make Breton outright better than Altmer though.

Maybe it’s meant as a pvp nerf for light armour? Heavy armour passives give a lot of health and this will widen the gap if a light armour wearer tries to use witchmothers.

soynegroyque

More food should scale to 160 though, not just special food.
It a shame no one noticed Orcs stats distribution being such an issue early in the rework, oh wait.

Now food has to pay the price.

Stamina version of Bloody Mara when?

Iskiab

On second thought I this this is meant as a heavy armour magicka PvP nerf. BT plus bloody Mara will be a good combo.

Lord_Eomer

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

Witchmother and Dubious Camorane only reduces Max Magicka and Staima by 336, this not really a big pool and ignorable in PVP

MartiniDaniels

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

Witchmother and Dubious Camorane only reduces Max Magicka and Staima by 336, this not really a big pool and ignorable in PVP

It also received reduced health, while Lava-foot soup and Bloody Mara received considerable buff due to scaling.
If you compare Witchmother and Mara it will be 2550 HP difference and 2250 Magicka difference (base values), and only 315 recovery less. If we count it in "sets bonuses":
Witchmother = 2856/1096+3094/1206+315/129=2.6+2.56+2.44=7.6 set bonuses
Bloody Mara = 5117/1096+5652/1206=4.66+4.68=9.34! set bonuses

If they don' buff Witchmother/CWC to comparable level, I see zero point to use anything then Bloody Mara or Fish Bowl on magicka character.

Jhalin

Don’t you love when ZOS decides the most expensive to make foods should have the worst baseline stats

Machete

Bosmer Master Race now

JinMori

I really like the bloody mara change, but didn;t really think the interaction with bright throat, that should probably be changed but we will see.

keep the value as it is but maybe change the set or to food.

DeathStalker

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

Witchmother and Dubious Camorane only reduces Max Magicka and Staima by 336, this not really a big pool and ignorable in PVP

It also received reduced health, while Lava-foot soup and Bloody Mara received considerable buff due to scaling.
If you compare Witchmother and Mara it will be 2550 HP difference and 2250 Magicka difference (base values), and only 315 recovery less. If we count it in "sets bonuses":
Witchmother = 2856/1096+3094/1206+315/129=2.6+2.56+2.44=7.6 set bonuses
Bloody Mara = 5117/1096+5652/1206=4.66+4.68=9.34! set bonuses

If they don' buff Witchmother/CWC to comparable level, I see zero point to use anything then Bloody Mara or Fish Bowl on magicka character.

I agree with this and hope they consider making more changes

JinMori

DeathStalker wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

Witchmother and Dubious Camorane only reduces Max Magicka and Staima by 336, this not really a big pool and ignorable in PVP

It also received reduced health, while Lava-foot soup and Bloody Mara received considerable buff due to scaling.
If you compare Witchmother and Mara it will be 2550 HP difference and 2250 Magicka difference (base values), and only 315 recovery less. If we count it in "sets bonuses":
Witchmother = 2856/1096+3094/1206+315/129=2.6+2.56+2.44=7.6 set bonuses
Bloody Mara = 5117/1096+5652/1206=4.66+4.68=9.34! set bonuses

If they don' buff Witchmother/CWC to comparable level, I see zero point to use anything then Bloody Mara or Fish Bowl on magicka character.

I agree with this and hope they consider making more changes

They should also give a stam version of bloody mara

Runefang

Bloody Mara change will be a real pain... I'll have to constantly get my vampire level back up. Guess I better fish in this game for the first time...

JinMori

Runefang wrote: »

Bloody Mara change will be a real pain... I'll have to constantly get my vampire level back up. Guess I better fish in this game for the first time...

There is the pickle which i don;t think sates your vampire needs.

Maybe some otehr needs though.

DeathStalker

JinMori wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Quickly checked food after PTS Update, there are several a lot of questionable points:

1. Only magicka has Purple and Gold quality maxHP/maxMagicka. It was not issue before, but now special food received scaling to CP160:
- Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka,
- Bloody Mara, 5652 HP, 5117 Magicka, a drink! which means that it can be used with Bright-Throat set in PVP and deliver ultimate combination of stats
9117 base magicka, 5652 HP, 279 magicka recovery
2. Sustain food:
- Witchmother's brew - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- CWC - 2975 Magicka, 3213 HP, 327 magicka recovery, 392 health recovery. Bright-throat+BloodyMara will be better.

3. Stamina doesn't have purple version of bi-stat food, so:
- Rabbits with vegetables... 5395 HP, 4936 Stamina -> not good
- Dubious Camorane - 2856 Magicka, 3094 HP, 315 recovery -> not good
- ATB - 2975 Stamina, 3213 HP, 327 stamina recovery, 392 health recovery - maybe ok for non-vampires in PVP, on HP recovery builds, sometimes
- Lava-foot soup 5117 Stamina,511 stamina recovery - new BiS, just compensate with health glyphs on armor and damage glyphs on weapon if required.

Racial conclusions:
Breton+Fish Bowl/BloodyMara will be one and only BiS for magicka in PVE
Orc+Lava-foot soup BiS for stamina like everywhere, because orc has one more 1k HP, so less to compensate with glyphs.

@Masel @ZOS_BrianWheeler
If original purpose was to balance racial passives with food, such approach has a lot of problems. This is proved by mentioned above imbalances caused by one global change - scaling special recipes to cp160. In the future any global changes will immediately cause racial imbalances, because it's hard to keep balance if some races are from the start loaded with more stats then majority of others with expectations that those races will use other food/sets/enchantments etc..

Witchmother and Dubious Camorane only reduces Max Magicka and Staima by 336, this not really a big pool and ignorable in PVP

It also received reduced health, while Lava-foot soup and Bloody Mara received considerable buff due to scaling.
If you compare Witchmother and Mara it will be 2550 HP difference and 2250 Magicka difference (base values), and only 315 recovery less. If we count it in "sets bonuses":
Witchmother = 2856/1096+3094/1206+315/129=2.6+2.56+2.44=7.6 set bonuses
Bloody Mara = 5117/1096+5652/1206=4.66+4.68=9.34! set bonuses

If they don' buff Witchmother/CWC to comparable level, I see zero point to use anything then Bloody Mara or Fish Bowl on magicka character.

I agree with this and hope they consider making more changes

They should also give a stam version of bloody mara

We can only hope

NyassaV

@ZOS_Gilliam you might find this interesting