About the Resurrection Ult

MalcolM24 · April 2019

Hello everyone

Made a short video showcasing the necromancer resurrection ult, which I think will be a big problem if it goes to live. It's not like the necromancer's other skills are bad or smth, so this could defenitely use some serious changes. Everything I want to say about it is in the video, including some suggestions, and there's a small writeup about it under the video aswell. I'd say enjoy but it's not very enjoyable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIuuMJ92OIk

too long didn't watch:

Both morphs of the ult do way too much (especially considering its cost). Even the resurrections alone are a serious problem, since they completely reset a fight or could drag it on forever. Zergs, which are already known for mass resurrections, can now do it without taking any risk at all.
The resurrected player now gets a small immunity timer, which allows him to run away/seek los, which is a good change for pve, but also removes the opportunity for the enemy player(s) to take note of the ressurection and quickly take down the resurrected again while he's weak.
Ball groups/'raids' usually die out eventually since they often have a harder time resurrecting (beeing in a keep with 50 enemies and all), but now that will be gone too.

Some possible solutions: increase cost, reduce the amount of players resurrected, give the resurrected player a strong (unpurgeable) debuff, reduce the effectiveness of the secondary effects from the morphs (which are good enough for an ultimate by themselves).

Or you could just delete it since the instares is never going to be a healthy mechanic, it completely takes away the punishment for dying.

Alucardo · April 2019

Have it turn the resurrected into skeletons with a pre-defined action bar and unpurgeable minor defile. They said themselves it's an "unperfected art". Bringing people back from the dead without consequence sounds pretty perfect to me.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2019

So.. um... they did not changed it at all since they have 1st announced necromancer ?!

...

Yeah... not to mention that ball groups will now dont need to use camps at all... ffs... Zenimax... this is obviously broken... I know you want ppl to buy new stuff but there are better ways than making such an obvious P2W in your game...
Get yourself together, ZOS before it's too late.

Lord_Eomer · April 2019

This is ultimate is good for tanks in PVE,

It will be no doubt mess in PVP and need some tuning from PVP perspective.

Iskiab · April 2019

I at first thought it’d be useless for BGs because people would be resurrected into a mess and immediately killed. Now I see the players will be ghosts and have 3 seconds to scatter before they’re able to be attacked.

Situationally okay, in BGs having opponents appear half health with no resources in front of me doesn’t seem like a bad thing to me, that’s like double the points in a death match when you wipe a necro team. Plus your opponent burned an ultimate to do it?

Probably only be used by groups in Cyrodiil.

Lilyanne · April 2019

It definitely needs PvP tuning, and I'm glad Malcolm made the vid to show this even better.

I can understand the general idea they might have had when they thought of it, but the current state isn't good.

Also nice ideas that you've tossed in there @MalcolM24

WillhelmBlack · April 2019

Enjoy 1vX/outnumbered while you still can.

Bitmun · April 2019

Protection from resto ulti should go, ofc, but there's nothing wrong with instaressing 3 ppls, ya know :P

TheRealSniker · April 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

Have it turn the resurrected into skeletons with a pre-defined action bar and unpurgeable minor defile. They said themselves it's an "unperfected art". Bringing people back from the dead without consequence sounds pretty perfect to me.

I agree with the post above, necromancy in any of the TES games never really brought back the undead back to life in perfect form.
Ressurecting people should be a thing but they should die in X amount of time and maybe have heavy buffs applied like Major Defile for the entire duration.
Special effects like blue smoke or anything similar would be massive improvement as well.

IzzyStardust · April 2019

Lilyanne wrote: »

It definitely needs PvP tuning, and I'm glad Malcolm made the vid to show this even better.

I can understand the general idea they might have had when they thought of it, but the current state isn't good.

Also nice ideas that you've tossed in there @MalcolM24

Please just use battle spirit to ruin good for PVE for PvP. Thanks!

Anhedonie · April 2019

Just make it have 1 target cap in pvp.

Ryanoxx · April 2019

MalcolM24 wrote: »

Hello everyone

Made a short video showcasing the necromancer resurrection ult, which I think will be a big problem if it goes to live. It's not like the necromancer's other skills are bad or smth, so this could defenitely use some serious changes. Everything I want to say about it is in the video, including some suggestions, and there's a small writeup about it under the video aswell. I'd say enjoy but it's not very enjoyable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIuuMJ92OIk

too long didn't watch:

Both morphs of the ult do way too much (especially considering its cost). Even the resurrections alone are a serious problem, since they completely reset a fight or could drag it on forever. Zergs, which are already known for mass resurrections, can now do it without taking any risk at all.
The resurrected player now gets a small immunity timer, which allows him to run away/seek los, which is a good change for pve, but also removes the opportunity for the enemy player(s) to take note of the ressurection and quickly take down the resurrected again while he's weak.
Ball groups/'raids' usually die out eventually since they often have a harder time resurrecting (beeing in a keep with 50 enemies and all), but now that will be gone too.

Some possible solutions: increase cost, reduce the amount of players resurrected, give the resurrected player a strong (unpurgeable) debuff, reduce the effectiveness of the secondary effects from the morphs (which are good enough for an ultimate by themselves).

Or you could just delete it since the instares is never going to be a healthy mechanic, it completely takes away the punishment for dying.

Seems completely balanced to me, why don't we reduce the ultimate cost to 125 so it's on one level with ultimates like restro ult. [sarcasm for those who can't tell]

Really thought... Necromancers are overpowered in more than one way at the moment. The ultimates are way too powerful and Blast Bones themself deal way too much dmg. Stamnecro DPS tests resulted in around 100k DPS. They aren't overpowered in just PvP they're too strong in PvE and PvP. I hope we will see some adjustments soon.

MalcolM24 · April 2019

Anhedonie wrote: »

Just make it have 1 target cap in pvp.

ye that would be nice already

Ahlteffour · April 2019

Cellentel · April 2019

From a PvE perspective: if the goal is still to raise the floor without also raising the ceiling, then the res ultimate is a change that actually does that. It will be an enormous asset to progression groups because it can turn a near-certain wipe into a salvageable situation. Thus, it raises the floor, and makes it easier for people to complete content. Yet, it will not impact the ceiling at all — If you’re pushing for score, you want few or no deaths, so being able to res people faster doesn’t help anything.

You raise some good points about PvP, and I have no problem with tweaks to the ability that improve its fit in PvP. But please, please please do not ruin the ability for PvE in the process, because we’re finally starting to make progress on the “raise the floor, lower the ceiling” bit.

Ankael07 · April 2019

This ulti could be really fun if it did something like give damage buff to the resurrected but only keep them alive for a certain duration. Sounds a lot more necromantic this way

Liferefugee · April 2019

I could see the ghost timer for Max pvp buffs, and reduced for every lower tier down to maybe 1 second at lowest since they are aiming for integers over decimals. Tyeing the penalty into the pvp buffs would let them keep it as is for pve.

zaria · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

I at first thought it’d be useless for BGs because people would be resurrected into a mess and immediately killed. Now I see the players will be ghosts and have 3 seconds to scatter before they’re able to be attacked.

Situationally okay, in BGs having opponents appear half health with no resources in front of me doesn’t seem like a bad thing to me, that’s like double the points in a death match when you wipe a necro team. Plus your opponent burned an ultimate to do it?

Probably only be used by groups in Cyrodiil.

The 3 second ghost phase will apply to all res and is very nice at loads of time people die in stupid, this make resurrect hard, especially in constant kill zones, Still 3 second is an long time who could be OP in pvp, in PvE you only have to move a few meters.

Iki · April 2019

I agree that this would be imbalanced and quite unhealthy ulti for pvp.
Now I wonder, would it be possible to make it have different function in pve and pvp? For example in pvp it could instead of res allies could summon pets like some kind of ghosts from fallen allies. Resurrect "souls" of dead allies to fight by your side for X amount of time. The more dead allies the more resurrected ghosts with some reasonable cap ofc.
Imo that would fit more this necromancer-theme and be elegant way to avoid plethora of issues it would cause as it is now.

MalcolM24 · April 2019

Iki wrote: »

I agree that this would be imbalanced and quite unhealthy ulti for pvp.
Now I wonder, would it be possible to make it have different function in pve and pvp? For example in pvp it could instead of res allies could summon pets like some kind of ghosts from fallen allies. Resurrect "souls" of dead allies to fight by your side for X amount of time. The more dead allies the more resurrected ghosts with some reasonable cap ofc.
Imo that would fit more this necromancer-theme and be elegant way to avoid plethora of issues it would cause as it is now.

And necromancers shouldn't even be able to fully bring back life (see lore), so that would make sense indeed. They could easily do it via battle spirit. If not, nerfing pve because of pvp is not favorable, but if things are left as they are pvp would get worse because of a good pve mechanic.

Mayrael · April 2019

Sheit... This is fkn unbelievable. Imagine 3 necro tanks in PvP, impossible to kill.

Cinbri · April 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

Have it turn the resurrected into skeletons with a pre-defined action bar and unpurgeable minor defile. They said themselves it's an "unperfected art". Bringing people back from the dead without consequence sounds pretty perfect to me.

Indeed. Necromancy cant bring dead back to life it can rise only undead corpses. True Ressurection is theme of Light/Holy stuff.

L0KHIR · April 2019

i just see the endless 4v24 necromancer survival groups out there... oh *** u died - who cares i drop rezz ult so ur back at life we maybe kill some ppl and my ressources are now fine aswell - damn and i thought stamnb is(was? #nerf) easymode

juhislihis19 · April 2019

Grizzaka wrote: »

i just see the endless 4v24 necromancer survival groups out there... oh *** u died - who cares i drop rezz ult so ur back at life we maybe kill some ppl and my ressources are now fine aswell - damn and i thought stamnb is(was? #nerf) easymode

Yeah, everyone and their moms will be slotting this ultimate in their back bar.

What on earth did ZOS think with this skill? It's broken as a skill can be.

Mayrael · April 2019

In group play its absolute "must have". Now all you need in PvP is tanky healer and tanky necro.
Few ways to balance it:
- Limit the players resurrected to one.
- Make resurrected players to be rooted (unbreakable and upurgable) for 10s.
- Rusurrected players are brought back without any resources.
- Players resurrected with this skill receive undead status for 10 minutes. While in undead status they can't be resurrected by this skill again.

Waffennacht · April 2019

I'd much rather see a whole different idea than the wastes of ultimates many have thrown out there.

Seems to me many of you would rather see a pointless ultimate than a balanced one.

And BTW it's useless in BGs

dazee · April 2019

Just change it to summon like 5 blastbone style zombies instead of rezzing people. then we could actually have mass undead summoning like most of us expected necro to do.

Checkmath · April 2019

When I think about this ultimate, then the fight of the blackheart haven endboss comes to my mind immediately. In that fight, the boss chooses randomly one teammate and curses him for a specific tim, changing his appearance into that one of a skeleton. In this skeleton form, you can only light and heavy attack and you have got your regular health pool.

How about the following suggestion: Activating this ultimate revives up to three friendly players in the target area. Resurrected players will be in skeleton form for 15 seconds after the resurrection and will turn normal afterwards. During this 15 seconds, they are only able to light and heavy attack, have their normal health pool, but are cursed with minor defile.

This would leave the resurrected players very vulnerable and they would not be a threat for a prolonged time. Naturally those 15 seconds time window could be adjusted or is only active in PvP zones.

Any thoughts about this idea (it is just an idea, no reason to freak out

).

cpuScientist · April 2019

In PvP it just summons blastbones of the same type you chose for the blastbone skill. 1 morph summons 5 the other gives the resources back and summons 2 or something

Kuratius · April 2019

I've been suggesting adding a cast time for a while now. Much easier to balance for pvp.

One morph with short/no cast time, but only 1 target, one morph with longer cast time but multiple targets.

ChefZero · April 2019

Adjusting ult cost: won't fix it
Adjusting x player got rezzed: won't fix it
Adjusting cast time: won't fix it
Adjusting morphs: won't fix it
Adding debuffs: won't fix it

ZOS can adjust what they want atm but it won't fix anything. The gap between useless and OP in certain situations is very tiny.
Permanent rezz have to go for a temporary rezz. After that they are able to balance this skill and adjust/add stuff.