Grim focus is now the only skill that double dips in GCD and resources.

WrathOfInnos · April 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

Honeslty they just need to change it to generate stacks while slotted and firing bow costs magicka.

Regardless, the heal is a cumbersome nonsense change.

Yes that is probably the best solution. We’d just need to make sure that you could still generate stacks while on the other bar. I don’t want to have to double bar this, and I’m concerned it could end up working like Crystal Frags if it became passive.

Also I’m not sure what should happen if you activate the skill when you don’t have a bow proc yet. Nothing? A weaker version of the bow?

Insco851 · April 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

▪Grim Focus:
▪This ability now provides no effect
whatsoever when initially cast. Note this
puts this ability into the "rule breaker"
catagory.

Quick, someone tag all the devs so they can properly update the patch notes. F’n perfection.

KatySpirit · April 2019

You know, this is a good point. It should provide a buff of some kind if it costs to activate. That or it should be free to cast initially.

Minor sorcery would be nice on the magic morph since that isn't available from any other skills that NB has. I don't feel NB Needs more recovery, but another damage buff would be nice since most of NB's skills do not hit very hard. The heal from this skill is totally unnecessary and they are unlikely to be close enough to the target for it to even work.

stimpy986b14_ESO · April 2019

I never liked the grim focus mechanic and only ever used it for the minor berserk (I do like the idea of the bound bow but I feel it was extremely poorly implemented). I suggest reworking the skill entirely as a powerful ranged opener with a cast time that deals bonus sneak attack damage.

Cundu_Ertur · April 2019

It makes perfect sense that the top Assassination skill that you have to be lvl42 in the skill line to get should be a useless puddle of poo that does exactly nothing when you activate it. I don't see what you guys are complaining about. I'm sure that every class has a skill that does nothing at all when it is used until you put your left hand in and take your left hand out, put your left hand in and shake it all about.

Actually, I'm not being accurate. Grim Focus does do something now, a couple of things actually: it takes a spot on the bar that could be used for something useful, and it decreases your stamina/magicka pool. Much usefulness, such wow.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Raikiki wrote: »

Just please revert the changes and keep it like it is.....

That's what DKs have been saying about wings. Wanna compromise?

Mayrael · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Raikiki wrote: »

Just please revert the changes and keep it like it is.....

That's what DKs have been saying about wings. Wanna compromise?

Hmm... 50% damage reduction from projectiles is far from "does nothing".

Edit:
Not to mention snare removal or firing some fire balls at the attacker.

brandonv516 · April 2019

It is most definitely unfinished and I think someone dropped the ball on this one.

That being said if it goes live this way I already have my build planned without it. I don't need it but I want it (in better form).

@ZOS_BrianWheeler to add more attention to this thread

Joosef_Kivikilpi · April 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

There are a few things they could do to it. Make it a passive that just plain works while slotted. They could just move it to class passives. It would very closely mimic crystal frags at that point. They could lower or remove the activation cost for the wind up or the bow itself. They could just wrap up this and siphoning attacks together so that it only takes one bar slot, but provides both the sustain effect of siphoning as well as the wind up for the bow.

At any rate, I do agree that if the ability itself does nothing except allow you to build up another one, and the windup and the actual attack both require a stat cost and gdc cost, it's very lackluster.

I've got a great idea! How about we just have it passively give us 8% extra damage while slotted, then change a passive of ours to give us 3% more damage with every assassination skill on our bar!!! Oh... Wait 🤔 that's the defensive-oriented Nature-based Warden, my bad. Got class there's mixed up I guess /s

LegacyDM · April 2019

This skill was a bad idea from the start. Give me my old haste back. Idioutz

Nostrabar · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Raikiki wrote: »

Just please revert the changes and keep it like it is.....

That's what DKs have been saying about wings. Wanna compromise?

Sure. In order to keep this fair, we'll also need to take your Dragonblood and make it into a 5%HP HoT, make Noxious Breath a giant single-target comic book sky-beam (just in case you didn't know 1. there was a nightblade in the area and 2. you are fractured), make Igneous grant evasion rather than mending, and remove Volatile in favor of a passive that requires you spam whip at least once every 5 seconds to maintain major resolve/ward. We're gonna need to go ahead and take that Swingline Fossilize while we're at it.

Oh yeah, and we'll be taking back that whole "inhale = restore resources, heal, and interrupt an entire zerg" thing. You know, the one ZOS said was OP in the description of the change to add it.

Strider__Roshin · April 2019

Stx wrote: »

Add major savagery/ prophecy to it for the duration. Also why did they remove minor endurance? Add that back too.

If you leave it how it is, there is literally no reason to have it on your bars come on zos...

This is a good idea

Raudgrani · April 2019

Remove the whole arrow thing from the stamina morph if you need a change, but keep Minor Berserk for both. It would hurt most builds way less, and would still allow build diversity in a much better way. I understand that at least stamblades are a bit "op" and annoy many players, but keep magblades in mind too. It's already like impossible to play PVP magblade, reducing the damage or forcing them into MELEE magblade (to get same damage), is same as putting an end to the class altogether.

I can't really see the problem, why the change? The arrow is horribly slow already, makes a loud noise, and takes quite a while to build up. Revert this nonsense, it's just wrong.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2019

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

HEBREWHAMMERRR · April 2019

Either remove the upfront cost or make siphoning strikes cost no magicka similar to wardens netch ability. Or both

.

Iskiab · April 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It seems that Zeni wants to make NB a totally useless class. Think about it. They are nerfing NB DPS potenial heavily and also its single target burst potenial. So the class most likely wont be a part of "meta" for both PvE and PvP. At the same time NB also does not receive anything that would make the class slightly better at Healing & Tanking - 2 roles that are the weakest aspect of the class. Hell even those roles seems to be nerfrd as NB burst heal skill (Dark Cloak) was rewerked into uselessness.

Idk. Something feels wrong here. In many mmo games (mobas in particular) when it comes to balancing stuff there is also another factor (that devs almost always wont tell you) that comes into play - popularity. Even if something is not good but for some reason it is popular - it will recived additional nerfs, to bring its popularity down. Now, I am not wearing any tinfoil hat or belive in conspiracy... But something tells me that there is something more to it.
So maybe that is the case ? NB is just too popular ?

This would be an extremely dumb thing to do. A lot of players stick to one playstyle in every MMO and a rogue is iconic. Even right now NB is considered by most to be the weakest pvp class, people still play it.

By nerfing a class because it’s popular all you’ll do is *** off a large player base who will quit the game. I have no doubt MMOs do stupid things a lot, most MMOs fail.

Dracane · April 2019

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

It was.

8% passive damage bonus and significantly higher damage.
Now they need to remove this stupid initial cost that it has and it will still be good.

And then, Sorcerers and Nightblades can both marvel at Necromancer, who have an ability that has the same tooltip as a proced crystal fragment (and the same as merciless resolve when at full strength), which is also undodgeable and is an aoe.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

It was. 8% passive damage bonus and significantly higher damage.
Now they need to remove this stupid initial cost that it has and it will still be good.

And then, Sorcerers and Nightblades can both marvel at Necromancer, who have an ability that has the same tooltip as a proced crystal fragment (and the same as merciless resolve when at full strength), which is also undodgeable and is an aoe.

And Frags had (and still have) the chance to proc several times in a row which results in more peak pressure since Grim Focus has a forced cooldown. From what I've tested on PTS Nb is completely useless now, it has less burst than a sorc (heck, petsorc doesn't even need to play with an ultimate to kill people), less pressure, is way more squishy, needs to go meele, has more counters and can be punished harder for mistakes. There's no niche nor is there any situation in which a Nb is better than a sorc. Overall Nb (both magicka and stamina, at least in light and medium armor) is bottom tier, together with stam/magplar while magsorc and necro are easily the most broken specs in the game right now.

Dalsinthus · April 2019

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

It was. 8% passive damage bonus and significantly higher damage.
Now they need to remove this stupid initial cost that it has and it will still be good.

And then, Sorcerers and Nightblades can both marvel at Necromancer, who have an ability that has the same tooltip as a proced crystal fragment (and the same as merciless resolve when at full strength), which is also undodgeable and is an aoe.

And Frags had (and still have) the chance to proc several times in a row which results in more peak pressure since Grim Focus has a forced cooldown. From what I've tested on PTS Nb is completely useless now, it has less burst than a sorc (heck, petsorc doesn't even need to play with an ultimate to kill people), less pressure, is way more squishy, needs to go meele, has more counters and can be punished harder for mistakes. There's no niche nor is there any situation in which a Nb is better than a sorc. Overall Nb (both magicka and stamina, at least in light and medium armor) is bottom tier, together with stam/magplar while magsorc and necro are easily the most broken specs in the game right now.

I have to agree. I'm really close to Grand Overlord on my stamblade. Once I get there it is over to my mag sorc and wardens for pvp.

WrathOfInnos · April 2019

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

There are a few things they could do to it. Make it a passive that just plain works while slotted. They could just move it to class passives. It would very closely mimic crystal frags at that point. They could lower or remove the activation cost for the wind up or the bow itself. They could just wrap up this and siphoning attacks together so that it only takes one bar slot, but provides both the sustain effect of siphoning as well as the wind up for the bow.

At any rate, I do agree that if the ability itself does nothing except allow you to build up another one, and the windup and the actual attack both require a stat cost and gdc cost, it's very lackluster.

I've got a great idea! How about we just have it passively give us 8% extra damage while slotted, then change a passive of ours to give us 3% more damage with every assassination skill on our bar!!! Oh... Wait 🤔 that's the defensive-oriented Nature-based Warden, my bad. Got class there's mixed up I guess /s

Not like Warden is overpowered, but you actually make a good point. Why not just make the 20-30s buff give a generic 5-8% damage increase (not Minor Berserk). This would stack with Combat Prayer, so healers would be more beneficial to Nightblades, while being less punishing for solo play and in places like vAS where Combat Prayer isn’t feasible.

Mayrael · April 2019

I officially don't care. Thanks ZOS for opening my eyes

even on live I do as good if not better without mercileess

this skill is removed permanently from my bar! I'm ready for Elsweyr! Bring it on, I need that RAT

Dracane · April 2019

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

It was. 8% passive damage bonus and significantly higher damage.
Now they need to remove this stupid initial cost that it has and it will still be good.

And then, Sorcerers and Nightblades can both marvel at Necromancer, who have an ability that has the same tooltip as a proced crystal fragment (and the same as merciless resolve when at full strength), which is also undodgeable and is an aoe.

And Frags had (and still have) the chance to proc several times in a row which results in more peak pressure since Grim Focus has a forced cooldown. From what I've tested on PTS Nb is completely useless now, it has less burst than a sorc (heck, petsorc doesn't even need to play with an ultimate to kill people), less pressure, is way more squishy, needs to go meele, has more counters and can be punished harder for mistakes. There's no niche nor is there any situation in which a Nb is better than a sorc. Overall Nb (both magicka and stamina, at least in light and medium armor) is bottom tier, together with stam/magplar while magsorc and necro are easily the most broken specs in the game right now.

I can't agree at all. NBs will certainly be less dominant, while stamblades certainly can endure a few of these changes.
But Stamina Templar and Magicka Templar bottom tier ? They have to be the most cancerous specs in pvp, since a long time.

Chelo · April 2019

They should get rid of Grim Focus and just make Spectral Bow a Slotted Skill that counts your light/heavy attacks and let you proc it every time it reach 5.

Or make it more dynamic, you can proc Spectral Bow even with 1 light attack, but for 20% dmg, so the dmg scale withe the number of light attacks, 1:20%, 2:40%, 3:60%, 4:80% and 5:100%.

The point is, get rid of the active skill and just make Spectral Bow and Slotted Skill that passively count light attacks and get dmg by the number of light attacks.

twing1_ · April 2019

Grim Focus/merciless resolve should provide major sorcery. Relentless focus morph should provide major brutality.

They can remove these from the drain power morphs in compensation.

Weps · April 2019

They shouldn't have took Minor Berserk off.
Completely gratuitous, uncalled, not even in line with the general rules they're trying to apply imho.

Everything else sounds fine and is all debatable.
Removing Minor Berserk? Not so much.
Especially when the Warden still retains it on a skill that does a lot of more things.

Chelo · April 2019

twing1_ wrote: »

Grim Focus/merciless resolve should provide major sorcery. Relentless focus morph should provide major brutality.

They can remove these from the drain power morphs in compensation.

I think think Sap Essence should apply Minor Vulnerability, instead of Lotus Fan. Imagine an AoE that apply Minor Vulnerability, that would possibly make a come back to the Sap Tank.

Xogath · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Raikiki wrote: »

Just please revert the changes and keep it like it is.....

That's what DKs have been saying about wings. Wanna compromise?

You can have Wings, only the "pee vee peeeeeeeeeeeee" crowd that uses that ability as a crutch cares about it. In return, though, us StamDKs would like a good class-based spammable ability that actually does something other than damage. You know, something to make us actually feel like Dragon Knights other than some weird kind of melee spell caster.

Anyway, Grim/Relentless Focus.

Sad to see it nerfed so heavily; didn't realize it was such a problem for so many people. That said, it should be changed to a toggle ability.. along with Leeching Strikes and its base ability/other morph. Toggles that stay active between bar swaps, that is.

So, here's how it'd work:

1. You slot it.
2. You cast it, no cost initially. It's now considered active.
3. While slotted AND active, provides some kind of Minor buff. Endurance would be nice. Possibly not necessary depending. (See below.)
4. Light Attack charges functions as it does now, however.. they have a duration (so you can't save it for later), and you can fire it at ANY level of charge.
5. Start increasing damage AND cost based on amount of Light Attack charges you've built up, up to X amount of charges. (5?)
6. At maximum charges, you could also have it do something extra.. a little bit of healing, some stamina return, a potent DoT for the increased cost, etc.

Not only does this lend to the Assassin-type theme of Nightblades, but also promotes intelligent choice when using the ability. Do you fire it now for some damage, or save those charges up for a big hit + DoT or extra effect?

Leeching Strikes should also be changed to a toggle affected by Light Attacks, that just functioned normally and "exploded" after so many Light Attacks and gave you Stamina back as it does when it expires now on live servers. So basically it promotes both Light Attacks, and the whole "I steal your life, yoooo" kind of thing that Nightblades seem to have going for them.

So you'd basically slot those abilities, activate them, and forget about them.. but aren't Assassins known for their preparation? I don't see a problem with it personally. I never liked both abilities in their current iterations; they're clunky, cumbersome, and makes a rotation pretty annoying since we essentially HAD to use them.

zyk · April 2019

The sad state of this ability on PTS is indefensible.

Cundu_Ertur · April 2019

I think the is the model that ALL skills and spells should have. Activate the ability, spend the resources, and get absolutely nothing in return. That way no-one can complain about this skill or other being OP since they would all do the exact same thing -- nothing.
Then we can all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya. And bang drums. We'll replace PVP and PVE with PVD -- players versus drums.
No more flame wars, no more conflict, just universal harmony.

thankyourat · April 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Now we have to spend a GCD and ressources for the pleasure to do 5 light attacks. Always remember about sorcs complaining about Grim Focus being the better Frags

It was. 8% passive damage bonus and significantly higher damage.
Now they need to remove this stupid initial cost that it has and it will still be good.

And then, Sorcerers and Nightblades can both marvel at Necromancer, who have an ability that has the same tooltip as a proced crystal fragment (and the same as merciless resolve when at full strength), which is also undodgeable and is an aoe.

Grim focus was never actually better than Crystal frags for PvP. Especially right now grim focus and Crystal frags have the same exact damage for the most part. My magblade has a merciless tooltip of 23k my sorc has a frag tooltip of 19k but when you factor in the 20% increase in damage on a proc'd frag it comes out to the exact same damage as merciless. And next update after the minor berserk Nerf frags will actually be hitting harder than merciless without any of the micromanaging or wasting GCD's. The damage of merciless and frags have always been pretty comparable.

curse also has a higher tooltip damage than soul tether and it's completely unavoidable. I've also seen my pets hit 5k on soft players. Honestly sorc is the most OP class right now on live and I really think it can give necro a run for it's money on which one would be more broken. It just has so much fire and forget damage while at the same having good defense with shields and pets