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Pve Discussion - Every Class has 2 burst heals. Nightblade 0 - Game Imbalance
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KRBMMO✭✭✭✭Here is NB burst heal (at least for MagNB):
Press Merciless, use magica and get no benefit
Do 5 light attacks
Press Merciless Resolve again and use more magica for your "burst heal"
lol5 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean
Please explain how any of what you stated benefits a pve Nightblade tank in endgame content against an individual boss?
Fear - You cannot fear bosses
Cloak - why would tank cloak a boss
What Utli are you refering. You didnt say.
Massive Bust heal. Which heal are you speaking because the pts heal is not massive nor bursty. Its HOT.
Please explain. We need to hear you.
PVP != PVE, and in this case the original quoted only considered one side of the gameDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
How do you heal in stealth as a magblade? Curious for real. Mutagen? There's hardly any kind of burst heal available as far as I can see. And what are we getting? Oh, yes. A pretty strong self heal, just requiring you to hit any enemy FIVE times, and then spend magicka to fire a slow dodgeable projectile to hit the enemy for healing. Well that's GREAT! Magblades will be very OP with this new feature, I can't wait.
Healing Ward pulls you out of stealth (and it's not instant), so does Combat Prayer. What are we left with? Nothing. Not for any sort of burst heal at the very least. Swallow Soul requires that you announce your presence, and is probably comparable to Forward Momentum's heal at best - except you can't remove snares with it too.
Magblade still a thing? Wasn't it trashed?
lol, no I kid. But, most NBs do all their heals pre-stealth when low, then come out at 50%+ in the 3 second time frame. (Usually they reenter right after to)
What heal? Where? Magblades are forced to rely on healing ward procs. You are using stamblades as the general rule of thumb... which sure, they have vigor dodge roll cloak, rally if need...
Magblade options, plz and thank you. And not “healing ward annulment cloak run and reset”0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭people are talking about stamblades in pvp, which makes no sense because 1) OP is talking about tanking, 2) class heals that are magicka based are for magblades.
stamblades != magblades3 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean
Please explain how any of what you stated benefits a pve Nightblade tank in endgame content against an individual boss?
Fear - You cannot fear bosses
Cloak - why would tank cloak a boss
What Utli are you refering. You didnt say.
Massive Bust heal. Which heal are you speaking because the pts heal is not massive nor bursty. Its HOT.
Please explain. We need to hear you.
PVP != PVE, and in this case the original quoted only considered one side of the game
Its the one that matters most considering pvp is a small community. The game is pve driven and pve is the the massive majority in the game.
An entire class will sacrifice an entire role for the sake of a small group in pvp over the largest part of the game regarding pve.Edited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 7:00PM0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is getting nerfed to not stack, so if anyone else uses it, its useless being slotted in that dungeon/trial.
@Casterial Haven’t found any evidence of this is any patch notes thus far. Do you have a source for this?
Possibly they removed it, but this was to keep it in line with all skills which don't stack
This was the video, but I can't find it anymore: www twitch tv/videos/402688127
The thing is Vigor doesn’t “stack”, in the same way Mutagen and Rapid Regen don’t “stack”, or two users of Funnel Health don’t “stack” the same heal
There are two distinct portions of the ability when you use the Resolving Vigor morph, and you can only be affected by one instance of each distinct portion at one time, a cast from yourself and a cast from someone else. Presumably Echoing Vigor could also be applied like you would Mutagen and Rapid Regen, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone running that1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Pve discussion or not, the pvp side is also balanced in unfortunately, and vice versa.1 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Didn't realize this whole thread was about NB tanking. Just make a DK or Warden Tank and you'll be fine. No need to gimp yourself and your group by trying to endgame tank with a NB. And if we're not talking about endgame tanking, then really whats the point? Just play for fun then.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Didn't realize this whole thread was about NB tanking. Just make a DK or Warden Tank and you'll be fine. No need to gimp yourself and your group by trying to endgame tank with a NB. And if we're not talking about endgame tanking, then really whats the point? Just play for fun then.
My Nightblade tank has completed all endgame content and is called upon to tank most content. I have all tanks in all classes. All roles every class.
All classes can perform all roles for endgame content.1 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
How do you heal in stealth as a magblade? Curious for real. Mutagen? There's hardly any kind of burst heal available as far as I can see. And what are we getting? Oh, yes. A pretty strong self heal, just requiring you to hit any enemy FIVE times, and then spend magicka to fire a slow dodgeable projectile to hit the enemy for healing. Well that's GREAT! Magblades will be very OP with this new feature, I can't wait.
Healing Ward pulls you out of stealth (and it's not instant), so does Combat Prayer. What are we left with? Nothing. Not for any sort of burst heal at the very least. Swallow Soul requires that you announce your presence, and is probably comparable to Forward Momentum's heal at best - except you can't remove snares with it too.
Magblade still a thing? Wasn't it trashed? lol, no I kid. But, most NBs do all their heals pre-stealth when low, then come out at 50%+ in the 3 second time frame. (Usually they reenter right after to)
And yet we see all these "nerf nightblades" demands, yes? For stamina it's ok, we have Rally as a "sneak heal"; we have Vigor which we can dodge roll and cloak out of, and we have Leeching Strikes as a complimentary, soon Relentless Focus too. But for magblades, yeah we need Healing Ward and probably Mutagen going all the time, and just hope for the best and pop sustained health potions too if we have DOT's ticking.
The attempt to nerf STAMblades, will be yet another nail in the coffin for magblades - and we decrease build diversity, and remove a whole class form PVP.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
The proposed change on pts is duplicative. Nightblade already has a heal over time skill which does the exact samething in funnel health and swallow souls.(minus protection).
By eliminating Nightblade burst heal, this change also eliminates Nightblade the ability to tank in pvp but especially in pve.
Here are some facts regarding Nightblade burst heals vs other classes burst heal access.
Templar - Breath of Life
Templar - Hasty Prayer
DK - Green Dragons Blood
DK - Stone Fist
Warden - Enchanted Growth
Warden - Budding Seeds
Sorc - Clanfere
Sorc - Matriarch
Nightblade - Nill
Every other classes have 2 burst heals, whereas Nightblade will not have a single one as is on pts
Please explain how eliminating Nightblades only burst heal is balance and brings Nightblade within alignenent with other classes by making them the only class with no access to burst heal while every single other class has access to 2 or more burst heals.
Again, the change on pts eliminates Nightblade as a tank role.
Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
I've never played as a Night Blade, so I"m hesitant to comment on this. But I should point out Templar's heals are really only good if you invest into magicka. So Stamina-based Templar tanks don't really have access to a good burst heal either.
I looked up Dark Cloak (which is what I'm guessing you've been talking about for the last couple of days) and I can see why you're upset about losing it. A heal based on health? Yeah, that sounds good for a tank alright. But I can also see how having a heal that remains effective across specs like that could be considered "imbalanced" by these developers. Being able to stealth unseen and ambush people with high burst damage while sporting an effective heal based on health was probably what lead to it being nerfed. So you can probably thank PvP again for messing with your PvE build. Though let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that I agree with the nerf.
Have you tried using Drain Essence as a possible replacement? The Restoration Staff ultimate? I don't know. Just some ideas I'm throwing out there. You are already a rare unicorn (I don't think I've ever seen a Nightblade tank) and would hate to see you go extinct.Edited by Jeremy on April 19, 2019 7:51PM2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
The proposed change on pts is duplicative. Nightblade already has a heal over time skill which does the exact samething in funnel health and swallow souls.(minus protection).
By eliminating Nightblade burst heal, this change also eliminates Nightblade the ability to tank in pvp but especially in pve.
Here are some facts regarding Nightblade burst heals vs other classes burst heal access.
Templar - Breath of Life
Templar - Hasty Prayer
DK - Green Dragons Blood
DK - Stone Fist
Warden - Enchanted Growth
Warden - Budding Seeds
Sorc - Clanfere
Sorc - Matriarch
Nightblade - Nill
Every other classes have 2 burst heals, whereas Nightblade will not have a single one as is on pts
Please explain how eliminating Nightblades only burst heal is balance and brings Nightblade within alignenent with other classes by making them the only class with no access to burst heal while every single other class has access to 2 or more burst heals.
Again, the change on pts eliminates Nightblade as a tank role.
Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
I've never played as a Night Blade, so I"m hesitant to comment on this. But I should point out Templar's heals are really only good if you invest into magicka. So Stamina-based Templar tanks don't really have access to a good burst heal either.
I looked up Dark Cloak (which is what I'm guessing you've been talking about for the last couple of days) and I can see why you're upset about losing it. A heal based on health? Yeah, that sounds good for a tank alright. But I can also see how having a heal that remains effective across specs like that could be considered "imbalanced" by these developers. Being able to stealth unseen and ambush people with high burst damage while sporting an effective heal based on health was probably what lead to it being nerfed. So you can probably thank PvP again for messing with your PvE build. Though let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that I agree with the nerf.
Have you tried using Drain Essence as a possible replacement? The Restoration Staff ultimate? I don't know. Just some ideas I'm throwing out there. You are already a rare unicorn (I don't think I've ever seen a Nightblade tank) and would hate to see you go extinct.
Thanks for the great response bro.
Prior to Dark Cloak I used invigorwting Drain an awesome heal combo'd with Swallow souls which had vitality passive.
The problem is, we can even go back to such build because vitality was removed from swallow souls when Dark Cloak was changed to a heal.
Also Drain places tank in channel. Was not my favorite position to be in.
Dark Cloak cannot be used in combo with Shadowy Disquise because its a morph of same skill1 -
stevenyaub16_ESO✭✭✭✭Give NBs heal.
And give the other classes invisibility.
Warden - Camouflage
Sorc - Invisibility
Templar - Astral Walk
DK - Batman1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »Give NBs heal.
And give the other classes invisibility.
Warden - Camouflage
Sorc - Invisibility
Templar - Astral Walk
DK - Batman
They do have it, Invis pots3 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »Give NBs heal.
And give the other classes invisibility.
Warden - Camouflage
Sorc - Invisibility
Templar - Astral Walk
DK - Batman
While we are complaining about the NON INVIS MORPH GETTING NERFED INTO USELESSNESS.
Good day.4 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a salient point op but all you’ll get are people who have been deleted by NBs in pvp.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ITT: people responding to a post about PVE tanking with complaints about PVP stamblades.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.4 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »Give NBs heal.
And give the other classes invisibility.
Warden - Camouflage
Sorc - Invisibility
Templar - Astral Walk
DK - Batman
Actually Invis potions make it available to all classes already.
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »Give NBs heal.
And give the other classes invisibility.
Warden - Camouflage
Sorc - Invisibility
Templar - Astral Walk
DK - Batman
Actually Invis potions make it available to all classes already.
Agreed.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just because other classes can do something, that doesn't mean that every class has to be able to do that thing. If ZOS has decided that nightblade is the only class without a solid burst heal, that is the direction they have chosen to go, regardless of how confusing that appears to be.
It would have been nice if they let us know that is supposed to be an inherent nightblade weakness ahead of time though. A general outline of what all classes should be doing would be nice.
Mobility
Defense
Healing
Burst Damage
Dot Damage
Etc.
If we as players know how the classes are supposed to work according to ZOS, then these sort of changes are less of a surprise to us and would be viewed more as helping to define the class.1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Just because other classes can do something, that doesn't mean that every class has to be able to do that thing. If ZOS has decided that nightblade is the only class without a solid burst heal, that is the direction they have chosen to go, regardless of how confusing that appears to be.
It would have been nice if they let us know that is supposed to be an inherent nightblade weakness ahead of time though. A general outline of what all classes should be doing would be nice.
Mobility
Defense
Healing
Burst Damage
Dot Damage
Etc.
If we as players know how the classes are supposed to work according to ZOS, then these sort of changes are less of a surprise to us and would be viewed more as helping to define the class.
The games mantra is "Play any Class Any Role"
To do such, each class needs basic tools to do such. Regarding tanking, every class has had a basic burst self heal. Not asking for the class to do the exacct same thing as other classee. But if this games Mantra is to hold true, then yes, Nightblade require aaccess to burst heal to perform tank role just as every class has a spammable single target damage skill.
Some things are just "Basic and Bedrock" foundational pieces for the game to work as intended.
"Play any Class, Any Role".
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Just because other classes can do something, that doesn't mean that every class has to be able to do that thing. If ZOS has decided that nightblade is the only class without a solid burst heal, that is the direction they have chosen to go, regardless of how confusing that appears to be.
It would have been nice if they let us know that is supposed to be an inherent nightblade weakness ahead of time though. A general outline of what all classes should be doing would be nice.
Mobility
Defense
Healing
Burst Damage
Dot Damage
Etc.
If we as players know how the classes are supposed to work according to ZOS, then these sort of changes are less of a surprise to us and would be viewed more as helping to define the class.
The games mantra is "Play any Class Any Role"
To do such, each class needs basic tools to do such. Regarding tanking, every class has had a basic burst self heal. Not asking for the class to do the exacct same thing as other classee. But if this games Mantra is to hold true, then yes, Nightblade require aaccess to burst heal to perform tank role just as every class has a spammable single target damage skill.
Some things are just "Basic and Bedrock" foundational pieces for the game to work as intended.
"Play any Class, Any Role".
I'm not saying I don't agree with you. I'm saying ZOS doesn't agree with you. I'm not happy at all with the change. I liked the heal the way it was and I wasn't under the impression that it was overperforming. If they want to look at overperforming heals, they don't have to look any further than vigor. Again, not saying I want them to nerf vigor, but it has a way larger target on its back than cloak does.Edited by redspecter23 on April 19, 2019 10:59PM1 -
msalvia✭✭✭✭Wanting every class to have the same tools is NOT balance. The fact that each class has native strengths and weaknesses is part of what makes this game work. And since NB is a powerhouse dps class, I don't think we can complain about it lacking the tools of a dedicated healer class like templar or tank class like DK.
Balance is having each class possess a unique set of tools geared to certain roles and situations. NB still has that and is getting heals that you're not acknowledging next patch. So balance is fine.3 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Wait seriously?Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is getting nerfed to not stack, so if anyone else uses it, its useless being slotted in that dungeon/trial.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Wanting every class to have the same tools is NOT balance. The fact that each class has native strengths and weaknesses is part of what makes this game work. And since NB is a powerhouse dps class, I don't think we can complain about it lacking the tools of a dedicated healer class like templar or tank class like DK.
Balance is having each class possess a unique set of tools geared to certain roles and situations. NB still has that and is getting heals that you're not acknowledging next patch. So balance is fine.
Thats pretty interesting point.
Nightblades have had a really unique kit unlike most other classes. Yet people complained about. The main complaint has nothing to do with the Tank heal.
The main complaint has to do with pvp and people being ganked. The irony here is pve tanks are going to suffer for something unrelated in pvp, specifically the high damge done in pvp from nightblades in stealth.
The Tank heal was added because Nightblades coul not properly tank endgame content without and emergency burst heal.
But all I have heare are people complaining about nightblade strengths which is high damage from stealth.
Not a single person thruout this entire forum has complained about the tank heal up until the announcement of the nerf to Dark Cloak which amounts to nothing more than "Jump on Band Wagon."
Tanks need a burst heal period.
If the tank heal needs to go, so be it. Then there is no need to strip them of the high offense.
Choice...
Take away offense or
Take away defense
Taking away both is completely over the top especially considering no one in pve has a problem with either which btw is the majority community not pvp.
Pts versiinnis a bad idea and does not lend itself to
Play any Class, Play any Role
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